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signal

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Oct 28, 2017
40,183
www.vice.com

Scientists Say Lithium Should Be Added to Drinking Water to Prevent Suicides

A new study published in the 'British Journal of Psychiatry' finds a link between lithium in drinking water and lower suicide levels

Maybe they had the right idea putting lithium in 7 Up when it was first sold in 1929.

Because, in an era of rising suicide rates especially among young people, a new study from Brighton and Sussex Medical School (BSMS) published in the British Journal of Psychiatry has found a strong link between geographical areas with high levels of lithium in public drinking water and lower suicide rates.

In a press release from BSMS, the study's lead author Professor Anjum Memon said: "It is promising that higher levels of trace lithium in drinking water may exert an anti-suicidal effect and have the potential to improve community mental health."
Part funded by King's College London, the study is a meta-analysis of three decades of research in Austria, Greece, Italy, Lithuania, UK, Japan and USA.It concludes that lithium's "protective" abilities could be further tested by "randomised community trials of lithium supplementation of the water supply" in communities with high prevalence of mental health conditions and risk of suicide.

Deliberately lacing the water supply with a mind-altering chemical in some zones might seem like something out of a science fiction novel, but the authors of the report – as other scientists have said before them – think it's an idea worth experimenting.
The report states: "These findings, which are consistent with the finding in clinical trials that lithium reduces suicide and related behaviours in people with a mood disorder, suggest that naturally occurring lithium in drinking water may have the potential to reduce the risk of suicide and may possibly help in mood stabilisation, particularly in populations with relatively high suicide rates and geographical areas with a greater range of lithium concentration in the drinking water."

You cannot blame scientists for thinking outside the box on suicide prevention. Our mental health has been deteriorating over lockdown. Current figures show there are around 800,000 suicides a year. It is the second leading cause of death among 15 to 29 year olds globally. Unfortunately, the evidence shows that the isolation and economic stress caused by COVID-19 may well exacerbate this trend and lead to rise in suicides.
Scientists are not certain exactly how this naturally occurring silver-white, metallic element, found in soil, seawater and rocks and therefore vegetables, grains and water supplies, alters human mood. The suspicion is that it stimulates the growth of nerve cells.

But since it was discovered in 1949 by Australian psychiatrist John Cade to be effective in treating mania, it has become a recognised medication for the treatment and prevention of bipolar disorder, for stabilising mood and in reducing the risk of suicide in people with mood disorders. In some studies, it has been shown to help reduce aggression and the onset of dementia.
The study noted that, via their drinking water, people were getting a low but constant dose of lithium, potentially since birth. Yet the optimal blood level at which lithium exerts a possible preventive effect against suicide is yet to be confirmed. Nor had the potential effect of trace doses of lithium in the human body.

During one small randomised controlled trial, micro-doses of lithium (400 micrograms daily) taken by former drug users showed an improvement in mood when compared with a placebo, suggesting that doses of lithium far lower than those used in psychiatry could have the potential to influence mood and possibly reduce suicide risk.
However, drinking water is just one way we consume lithium. Even in areas with high concentrations of lithium in drinking water such as some parts of Texas (340 micrograms daily) – where research found it reduced cocaine and heroin arrests and suicidal and violent criminal behaviour – the amount of lithium ingested via the public water supply is far less than via food and mineral water.

nirvana_lithium.mp4
 

shnurgleton

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Oct 27, 2017
15,864
Boston
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Red Liquorice

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,066
UK
Wouldn't it be better to ascertain the reasons why so many people are taking their own lives and work on those, or is that too naive?
 

Joe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,592
These kinds of public policy interventions are my favorite, because of how often you can get this huge impacts with small changes. It's amazing what you can achieve with a little fluoride in the water, or iodine in salt. I remember reading about the lithium idea last year, so it's cool to see that the research is bearing out.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
59,991
What about better and more accessible public mental health system? Nah, right?

I really don't like policies that look to mask systemic issues at play. It's a copout.
 

TheOther

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Jan 10, 2019
1,794
Texas

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,910
Lithium isn't considered a precious metal so I don't see how it could improve my precious bodily fluids
 

Uriah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
270
Conspiracy theorist can't even handle fluoride. I bet they would love lithium in our water.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
I don't see anything mentioned about possible side effect to taking lithium at that dose and duration. Seems cool regardless though.
Wouldn't it be better to ascertain the reasons why so many people are taking their own lives and work on those, or is that too naive?
This is obviously way easier, but even in ideal scenarios people can be prone to depression.
 

captmcblack

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,060
If this actually helps, I'm not against it...but they should additionally start funding city and state mental health services and facilities again, and ensure they're not just prisons as well.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
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Oct 30, 2017
36,072
What about better and more accessible public mental health system? Nah, right?

I really don't like policies that look to mask systemic issues at play. It's a copout.
but lithium is a known to actually be an antidepressant and treat disorders you should look into it its actually pretty fascinating history behind it.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
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Oct 26, 2017
59,991
I don't see anything mentioned about possible side effect to taking lithium at that dose and duration. Seems cool regardless though.

This is obviously way easier, but even in ideal scenarios people can be prone to depression.
It says we don't know lol.

But hey let's do it anyway!

but lithium is a known to actually be an antidepressant and treat disorders you should look into it its actually pretty fascinating history behind it.

I'm not too familiar with it, but wouldn't it be prescribed though? And why are putting a powerful agent like that in the public drinking supply without knowing long-term effects?
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
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Oct 30, 2017
36,072
It says we don't know lol.

But hey let's do it anyway!



I'm not too familiar with it, but wouldn't it be prescribed though? And why are putting a powerful agent like that in the public drinking supply without knowing long-term effects?
The study is calling more for low but constant dosage over time, we probally are talking very small dosages.

Before it became an approved medicine, in the early twentieth century, lithium drinks, including 7 Up (which removed the lithium in 1949), lithium beer, Lithia water – from an ancient Native American sacred medicinal spring in Georgia – were promoted as calming tonics. Due to its electro-conductive properties, lithium has since been used as a component in batteries and cellphones. Now it is available as a mood-balancing supplement available in online health shops in the form of lithium orotate, although its effectiveness in this form is not proven.

there def is more to it.
 
OP
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signal

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,183
It says we don't know lol.

But hey let's do it anyway!

I'm not too familiar with it, but wouldn't it be prescribed though? And why are putting a powerful agent like that in the public drinking supply without knowing long-term effects?
They aren't going to start dumping lithium in the water supplies ASAP, calm down. And assuming this was a thing they wanted to do, they could do it while simultaneously improving mental health services.

"we could just improve dentistry and subsidise toothpaste but nah lol just dump fluoride in the water"
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
I know someone very close to me who had lithium poisoning and it screwed up her life. I would never want to consume this myself.
 

wenis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,105
I'm all for being consistently drugged, so like, sure. Can we also get a monthly supply of psychedelics for every american citizen?
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
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Oct 30, 2017
36,072
this is hella facinating to me, and weirdly it makes some sense, a lot of minerals we have in our bodies can help with nerves and it not far fetched lithium might help with electrical signals in our brains. This shit has me looking up microdosing of it.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
Seems like a smart way to save lives. Society isn't mature enough to handle this though. Look at all the misinformation about fluoride.
 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
is this a "silver bullet" for depression, or why people are acting like doing this will "cure" people?

if it can help, why are you against this?
 

KingM

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,476
Wouldn't it be better to ascertain the reasons why so many people are taking their own lives and work on those, or is that too naive?
That would require a lot of time and energy that isn't available and even with endless funding wouldn't scale to fit the needs of any large town or small city. And that's before adding in the complications of mental healthcare when access is available being largely voluntary.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
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Oct 26, 2017
59,991
They aren't going to start dumping lithium in the water supplies ASAP, calm down. And assuming this was a thing they wanted to do, they could do it while simultaneously improving mental health services.

"we could just improve dentistry and subsidise toothpaste but nah lol just dump fluoride in the water"
I'm not against it. I just want more research. They even mentioned in the article that don't know the long term effects in smaller doses. This is not a one-time thing. This will be consistent. Nothing wrong with being prudent.
 

Deleted member 18360

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Oct 27, 2017
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I took about 8mg of lithium orotate for a health thing years ago and didn't really notice anything from it. It might have been too small of a dose, though. Smaller/sub clinical doses of lithium are really easily tolerable but idk if they're really that effective beyond maybe blunting the statistics a bit in aggregate idk.
 

Deleted member 4783

Oct 25, 2017
4,531
Seems like a smart way to save lives. Society isn't mature enough to handle this though. Look at all the misinformation about fluoride.
No, the smart way is actually having a competent health care system (which is free or next to free) and a government that cares.

But, otherwise, yeah.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
No, the smart way is actually having a competent health care system (which is free or next to free) and a government that cares.

But, otherwise, yeah.
I'm not seeing why it has to be an either/or thing. Obviously a functioning health care system is the most important thing. That doesn't mean we should discount any other way to alleviate people's suffering.

Fluoride isn't added to water so people will never have to go to the dentist.
 
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signal

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,183
Such a weird negativity here. It's just a meta-analysis about the topic suggesting it should be looked at more and that such an action could be helpful. People acting like nations are going to start shuttering every mental health option people currently have and replace it with lithium in the tap water.

Professor Memon said: 'Next steps might include testing this hypothesis by randomised community trials of lithium supplementation of the water supply, particularly in communities (or settings) with demonstrated high prevalence of mental health conditions, violent criminal behaviour, chronic substance abuse and risk of suicide. This may provide further evidence to support the hypothesis that lithium could be used at the community level to reduce or combat the risk of these conditions.'

Presumably any effect would be minor, but as a community mental health improvement, assuming it worked and was safe and etc., why not? Calling the suicide prevention hotline won't just be replaced with a recording saying 'drink water'
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,902
So lithium aids in neuro-related things? That's interesting

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2800957/

https://www.sciencealert.com/finally-scientists-think-they-know-how-lithium-treats-bipolar-disorder

Another tool is always nice. More research into this stuff (and better mental health support) would be great.

Seems to be a very mobile and reactive nutrient though, and gets everywhere leading to side effects.

" Neuroprotection is the most consistent biological outcome associated with lithium treatment in both preclinical and clinical models of BD. Paradoxically, lithium is a simple metal with a complex mechanism of action. It is a monovalent cation that is also a very light, reactive, wide-spread, and unstable alkali metal, and thus it has outstanding and unique penetration in most tissues and cells. Its ability to be potentially omnipresent explains its high sensitivity and low specificity for biological effects targeting at neurotrophic pathways, as well as its potentially wide range of clinical indications and undesirable side effects profile. "

I wonder if deficiency in random nutrients like this has been a contributing factor in many health problems today. Physiology is wild, our bodies are so complex.
 

Joe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,592
I'm honestly surprised by some of these responses. Why such disdain?
We didn't disregard dentistry when we added fluoride to water.
We didn't throw away schools when we put iodine in salt.
I don't know why we should be so quick to dismiss what could potentially be a cheap and massively life-improving public intervention just because it doesn't meet some standard of seriousness.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
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Oct 30, 2017
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I wonder if deficiency in random nutrients like this has been a contributing factor in many health problems today. Physiology is wild, our bodies are so complex.
i believe it. i remeber when i was starting to fast i was just drinking water, and i literally was getting shakes and twitches because just drinking water flushes your system of minerals like magnesium which helps for you nerves, its not far fetched that lithium could help bridge gaps in brain function. i was way better when i was drinking water with minerals added.
 

GekigangerV

Member
Oct 25, 2017
653
I know someone very close to me who had lithium poisoning and it screwed up her life. I would never want to consume this myself.

There are a lot of things to consider when taking Lithium. Your levels have to be monitored so they are in therapeutic range. So can people who already take lithium just stop drinking tap water? If they have their dose adjusted to match tap water they then have to drink a consistent amount every day so their levels stay consistent.

Also your sodium intake has to be consistent when taking lithium, is someone goes on a low sodium diet that will mess with their levels as well.

Lithium is also associated with a cardiac malformation called "Ebstein's Anomaly" when taken during pregnancy. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5667676/
 

Murfield

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,425
Not sure I like the idea of people dosing my water supply with mood altering chemicals.

It does not seem like the right way to tackle this problem. I think it should be about making people comfortable about seeking help, and making sure its there when they need it.
 

ToddBonzalez

The Pyramids? That's nothing compared to RDR2
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Oct 27, 2017
15,530
Brains are weird. Are we sure there are no adverse effects to regularly consuming lithium?
 

Necromanti

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Oct 25, 2017
11,546
Presumably any effect would be minor, but as a community mental health improvement, assuming it worked and was safe and etc., why not? Calling the suicide prevention hotline won't just be replaced with a recording saying 'drink water'
If anything, it would relieve some strain on crisis hotlines (which have been absolutely swamped in recent times). I wonder if it's the psychiatric element that makes people hesitate, because I'm sure if there was a compound we could passively ingest in non-toxic doses to decrease incidences of some disease by 1-5%, we'd all be on board.
 

Binabik15

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,599
But since it was discovered in 1949 by Australian psychiatrist John Cade to be effective in treating mania...

I'm legally obligated to bring up the fact that he realised that during experiments where he injected guinnea pigs with the piss of people experiencing manic episodes.

The rest I'll have to read later and in greater detail than the article provides, because lithium is not something to use willy-nilly.