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Stranger Things S4 | OT | Every ending has a beginning (Open spoilers)
- Thread starter Conditional-Pancakes
- Start date
- Entertainment Video/Streaming OT
It does sound a little too similar to season 3 still, to be honest. Billy, Heather, Newspaper guy etc were not just accumulated biomass, they had social interactions and plans while under control, even a bit of that individual/part-of-hivemind dichotomy that showed how while assimilated they retained some sense of individuality amongst each other (Billy and Heather talking about how he could've been killed, Billy fighting the control in the end). That they were also able to be used to build the biomass wouldn't change that it feels like echoes of the same thing.
... But it also makes sense for all those bodies Vecna is holding onto to come back into play in some way. I just hope it's unique and different enough from the last season.
Not really.
Discrediting Jason might sway some people, but we've seen many, many times that people will double-down in their beliefs when challenged, especially religious driven ones, and no amount of facts can change that (see today's political climate for a perfect example of this).
(This is getting into theory territory, but based on what Vecna says in the vol 2 trailer (Eleven freed him) and the clip of Karen holding Holly).
I've got a feeling that Vecna is going to cross over into our world and cause a massive amount of havoc.
If he does, and the general public finds out the truth about what's been happening, all hell is going to break loose.
It's clear that he's setting things up for an invasion. There's gates where his victims die (we know of two, Watergate and Chrissy's gate, so it's safe to assume that there's a gate where Fred died as well, and that was in the middle of a road, a place that people will see0), and he's built up an impressive army of demobats (which, based on the attack on Steve, are vicious bastards, are hard to kill and utilize strength in numbers). Those things would be very effective in a surprise attack.
Remember, in S2/3, there was only one gate, close it, threat over. Vecna has two that we know of, and a possible third. There's no way Eleven can close all of them at the same time.
Once people actually see who's behind the killings, Vecna, people are immediately going to double down on the Hawkins is cursed/D&D satanic views.
This is the same town that blamed over 50 people going missing in the middle of the night on a "mall fire" that happened while the mall was closed.
Exactly.
Vecna could walk down main street with a parade behind him stating that Eddie is innocent and people will definitely think that Eddie was behind the murders.
It's nearly impossible to change someone's mind using logic and facts if they didn't use logic and facts to make up their mind in the first place (see how difficult it is to convince conservatives that Trump is a lying sack of shit. They've had facts thrown in their face since before he was elected and they don't care).
Hawkins strikes me as a very conservative town, and having grown up in rural America (and currently living in a small town), that's something I can totally believe (especially in a time where you didn't have instant communication like you do today).
I'm more amazed at the fact that nobody saw a giant spider-like creature chasing a car.
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Thanks for pointing that out. As a non-American I didn't understand how big it was until you made that reference.
Moral panic - Wikipedia
Crazy stuff.
My point is that people are alarmingly good at accepting explanations. The Satanic Panic thing may stick for some of the dumber citizens, but if a cleaner explanation presents itself, most of them will fall off once the mob mentality wears off.
In some ways it was worse than Qanon, because while the Pizza place suffered, it never went to court.Thanks for pointing that out. As a non-American I didn't understand how big it was until you made that reference.
Moral panic - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Crazy stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-care_sex-abuse_hysteria
It's not just the 80's version, it has a direct link to it. Honestly wild if you look into it. A ton of the same allegations of "Satanic ritual abuse" are being made in the QAnon sphere and bleeding into the mainstream again.
This is set in a time period where you didn't have instant communication. People got their news from the local newspaper, nightly news and their friends group.
There's really no clearer explanation. Eddie was the prime suspect before Jason got the mob riled up with the Satanic stuff. He was the last person who saw Chrissy alive (and she died in his trailer), his whereabouts where unknown when Fred died, and he was there when Patrick died.
We the viewer, have the benefit of knowing who is doing the killing. The citizens of the town don't, and the most simplest answer is to pin the murders on Eddie, call it a day and move on with their lives.
This is small town, rural America. Towns like this don't like national spotlights being placed on them (believe me, I'm from one), and Hawkins has been in the national spotlight a lot (Barb's death being tied to the lab, the mall incident, etc).
If the simplest way to squash the issue is to pin the murders on a D&D playing social outcast, they'll run with it just to put an end to it, innocence be damnned.
Eddie can plead his innocence all he wants, but he's really just screwed. He can't tell the truth, doing so wouldn't be believed by some people and would just fuel the satanic viewpoint in others. He could try to lie about it, but the majority of people have already made up their minds.
He's really stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Will have to check it out, thanks for the recommendation. I do agree as well the original IT while good definitely has its short comings.
The murders just need to get pinned on Jason. Shouldn't be too hard since he was there when Patrick died and Chrissy was his girlfriend, so to the public perception, if the allegations against Eddie turn into the real killer trying to shift the blame on someone else, it'd be reasonable for Eddie's name to be cleared.
Pretty much. If Jason does something extremely heinous (which is exceedingly likely given the arc he's on), all of his attempts to pin everything on Eddie will just look like a murderer trying to escape blame.
... But Jason didn't commit the murders. Why should they be pinned on another innocent person? It might be convenient for the plot to eschew the suspense being put onto Eddie, but I wouldn't feel very satisfied with the narrative just changing gears to framing a different innocent person.
Jason is very clearly on a tear and is probably going to do something relatively terrible in the next two episodes. Once he crosses that line, it will be pretty easy for everyone to accept that he was the one responsible for the other murders.
Jason sucks and is probably gonna do some awful shit in Vol 2, so why not. He seems like prime material to get possessed or manipulated by Vecna, which would make it that much easier.
Eh maybe. I really like Jason's character as it has been developed, and while he's obviously gone to extremes and violence that is reprehensible, on the whole he's not done anything outright evil or even all that surprising. He seems to have genuine feelings for his friends and his girlfriend, she was killed while meeting a drug dealer at his house, said drug dealer went into hiding, then when he found him said drug dealer was present while one of his friends was brutally, supernaturally killed beside him. Said drug dealer has often loudly and noticeably pretended to have relations to the devil before this.
To pin all the murders on him because he's an asshole would just be an affront to that story I think. He's not much different from Joyce in season 1, except he has a human person to attach that anger and confusion to, and of course he has the violent nature of good ol' police chief Hopper. Even if the story pushes him into committing a heinous act, which it is set up to do, I personally would be unsatisfied at them dropping interesting developments for the sake of a tidy cleanup on Eddie's behalf. I already dislike how they completely blew over all the tension that should have been present in Lucas' story this season, I think having someone who has so far not done very much wrong be culpable for murder to give someone else an out will just leave me really sour on why they even bother setting anything up.
I think Fred's death is going to be the that could proves Jason's innocence.
Let's look at the three murders
Chrissy
Jason is the star athlete, Eddie is an outcast. That goes a long way towards believability (especially in small, rural towns).
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Vecna targets Jason. He's a prime target due to Chrissy and Patrick's deaths. Those two being killed so quickly and his anger is a massive homing beacon for Vecna.
Let's look at the three murders
Chrissy
- Jason's girlfriend (makes him a suspect)
- Was killed in Eddie's trailer (suspect)
- Last person to see Chrissy alive (suspect)
- I can't recall if Chrissy was killed the night of the basketball game/D&D game, but if so that gives Jason a credible alibi).
- Jason was present (suspect)
- Eddie was present (suspect)
- This was the only death Jason was at, whereas Eddie has confirmed to be at two).
- Jason has people who can confirm where he was when Fred was killed.
- Eddie can't, as he was hiding after Chrissy's death.
- That makes Eddie the prime suspect since Fred died in a similar way to Chrissy.
Jason is the star athlete, Eddie is an outcast. That goes a long way towards believability (especially in small, rural towns).
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Vecna targets Jason. He's a prime target due to Chrissy and Patrick's deaths. Those two being killed so quickly and his anger is a massive homing beacon for Vecna.
If the writers want Eddie to be publicly exonerated (yes, please), they will find a way, as unlikely as that could be were this a real story.
In any case, I just finished the whole season. Far from perfect, but man do I love this show. I'm gonna be pissed if Steve dies next month :(
In any case, I just finished the whole season. Far from perfect, but man do I love this show. I'm gonna be pissed if Steve dies next month :(
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Like the others said, the Hellraiser references have a lot to do with the mood and the visual. A big reference is the attic, which is very Hellraiser 1. The way he talks is also generally very Pinhead-like I think.
"It's time for your suffering...
...
...
...
...to end."
To me, Vecna really is a cross between Freddy Krueger and Pinhead.
Steve won't die. I refuse to live in a world where Steve dies. I just can't, lol!
The season was too drawn out for its own good, and that's because while no plot thread was bad or uninteresting, the non-Hawkins events moved at a snail's pace, especially during the middle/ending stretch, when shit has already hit the fan in Hawkins.
So the problem was in the pacing more than in the actual characters or arcs in those places, as I was happy to see these locations every time they showed up, but then I was like "man, pick up the pace a little, please". But I really like these characters, so I'm fine with it, at least on a first watch.
Unorganised thoughts (the spoiler veil was lifted I see, right?):
So the problem was in the pacing more than in the actual characters or arcs in those places, as I was happy to see these locations every time they showed up, but then I was like "man, pick up the pace a little, please". But I really like these characters, so I'm fine with it, at least on a first watch.
Unorganised thoughts (the spoiler veil was lifted I see, right?):
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Steve and Dustin continue being the soul of the show.
[*]Eddie was a fantastic addition, so much so I'd be pissed if he dies (despite his limited screen presence). The way he was framed in the last two episodes makes you think his arc will be about "stepping up" by sacrificing himself, but idk. I hope not, in any case.
[*]This takes me back to Steve: I hope my man comes out of this mess unscathed, because he's my favourite character and season 5 would take a huge hit as far as I'm concered. Same for Nancy and Robin, but I think they're safe.
[*]Not sure how I feel about the rekindling of Steve and Nancy's relationship. I like them together (as I do her with Jonathan), but I don't know if it's where I want them to continue their development.
[*]Speaking of which, Jonathan was fun this season (along with Argyle, although he could be too much in quite a few scenes). However, he was sorely underutilised, so I hope he gets to do some cool stuff during Vol 2. I'm also very curious to see how Nancy and him will react upon seeing each other. I still think they are endgame, in any case.
[*]I like Vecna's kills. They were gruesome and the presentation was genuinely unsettling, with good staging, costume/make-up work and sound design.
[*]I feel terrible for Chrissy, would have liked to have her as a recurring character, she seemed fun (when she wasn't scared shitless of her hallucinations). Same for Fred. I also think those that were Vecna'd will return somehow: their corpses being stored in the Upside Down's Creel house means they have a physical presence there different from the regular world.
[*]Max was great. Much has been said about the song and all of that I assume, but yeah, great scene that I see becoming iconic™. I liked Billy's stuff too. I think the actor did great last season, so it was nice seeing the character being more three-dimensional and seeing how, in a different life, those two could have been loving siblings.
[*]Like Jonathan, Mike and Will were kinda sidelined. Dustin continued being the most fun of the kids (also helping in furthering the plot more than the others) and Lucas' arc was interesting, but I didn't love how it was handled.
[*]Suzie's stuff was boring for the most part, and quirky for the sake of it, to the point where the whole house stuff felt out of place (and that's with a show that welcomes campiness). It didn't take up much space, so whatever.
[*]Joyce and Murray were fine. A bit too over the top, both in their characters and their adventures, but it's fun. Hopper's life in the prison had some nice moments (his relationship with the guard, the escape attempt, the Demogorgon fight...), but it took way too long for things to get going. I hope they can all be back in Hawkins for Vol 2.
[*]Eleven's "let's get my powers back" arc was too long and repetitive (I know, that's the point) save for a few scenes. I liked her absolutely losing her shit in the rink, fuck those bitches.
[*]And that takes us to the reveal: I don't particularly care for Vecna being the Creel kid, but at least the Upside Down seems to have existed for long before he came in, same for the Mindflayer and the others. So I'm more than fine with him becoming his pawn or whatever, but I want the Upside Down and its creatures to feel as alien and unknowable as they can be.
[*]Lastly, you can tell they injected some good money into this. The show has always been well shot and stylised, but they've gone to town this time. A highlight was the shooting scene. Some of the CG was a bit shoddy, but it was pretty good for the most part. Love that they're using prosthetics so much, too.
It's amazing how he went from being a total asshole you want to see beaten the shit out of to become the most endearing character by far. I'm so glad the Duffers changed their mind with his direction lol.
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Not completely, there are some people coming in this thread that aren't done watching yet, but it's definitely less strict than it was when Volume One just released, lol!
I'm thinking about completely lifting the spoiler tags requirement for Volume One (but keep it for everything Volume Two) a week before the next volume is released. I'll make a threadmark and everything.
Do you all think it makes sense?
I'll edit my post then!
That sounds about right, yeah (don't know how others would feel about it though, as tags somewhat hinder conversation). It's been a while now, but there's probably many still on the early or mid episodes, so idk lol. In any case, yeah, a threadmark/title update should do the trick whenever the tags are no longer required.
If anything, any proof will make them double down in their beliefs.
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I would be happy to do it sooner too, just let me know what you all think!
I'm changing my bet from Steve Dies to $100 ON STEVECNA
The scene where Vecna has all those tentacles in his back honestly felt very similar to how Pinhead oftens kills people, hoisting them into the air by plunging hundreds of hooks into every part of their body and ripping their flesh off.
I always found it kinda weird how the show just dropped him completely after Will's fakeout death. I know he doesn't really matter much in the grand scheme of things, but still.
They're using the creatures and villains of DnD as a way of naming the creatures they're encountering. Sometimes they have attributes that remind them in some way of things in DnD, but it's just a way for them to have a name for them.
Ah ok thought so.
I end up googling some of the enemies and thought they look nothing like the show lol.
Using nomenclature they are familiar with to explain the unexplainable.
Didn't know that thanks. Definitely loving all the Freddy vibes even the music around Vecna has a similar feel to Nightmare on Elm Street as well.
Thanks. There a more references to Hellraiser than I thought.
Yeah they explain in season 3 when Hopper is questioning their knowledge that they use DnD as a metaphor to understand what's happening (Lucas interjects that it's a simile). And it's definitely not like 1:1 with the game lore as you said, they just find it helpful to contextualize.
It's especially funny because the power level of the monsters they name is all over the place.
The Mind Flayer is the big bad of the whole series. In D&D a mindflayer is a mid-level regular enemy. High-level player parties can wipe the floor with entire groups of mindflayers at once.
Vecna is the villain of this season, described as the Mind Flayer's four-star general. In D&D, Vecna is a campaign end boss and technically a god.
The Demogorgon is the bad guy of Season 1, and is now a regular monster. In D&D, Demogorgon is an elemental force of pure evil, and in some versions of the game is one of the strongest evil forces players can encounter.
Im curious though, how certain are we that Vecna is actually working for the mindflayer? We have no idea how strong Vecna actually is, is there a chance he could be controlling MF? Or maybe he has his own agenda?
We actually aren't certain at all. The "four-star general" thing is all Dustin's speculation.
We'll probably get an idea on who the main villain for the series will be by the end of this season. It'll depend on whether or not Vecna is defeated in episode 9 or not. Personally I think them revealing Vecna's back story in episode 7 of this season is kind of pointing to Vecna being defeated in episode 9. If Vecna was continue on to the next season, I feel the back story reveal would have happened in episode 9.
I'm only on episode 2, but I'm really sick and tired of the bullying in high school cliche. It's also bringing back some triggers from my youth too.
To be fair, apparently the Duffer's really hated there high school life. It's come up a lot in their interviews, they said that they associated it with anxiety and depression.
As much as I hate it, too, it would be too unbelievable for someone as weird and socially awkward as Eleven to not have a bully.
That being said, if they wanted it to be realistic it probably should've happened last season, since middle school is hell on earth. My bullies mostly gave up on tormenting me after I took a baseball bat to someone's knee first semester of freshman year.
That makes sense actually. I can certainly identify with them.
I agree with that. My bullying came during middle school and ended when I smashed someone's head into a classroom window. It was the only time I ever got suspended from school.