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Stranger Things S4 | OT | Every ending has a beginning (Open spoilers)
- Thread starter Conditional-Pancakes
- Start date
- Entertainment Video/Streaming OT
This season is like the beautiful love-child of IT, Nightmare on Elm Street, and body and cosmic horror. I'm through episode 5 and it feels like this is the Duffer Bros. firing on all cylinders.
Those last 10 minutes or so of "Dear Billy" was just so fucking good. The one-shot shootout in episode 5 was also badass. It's really amazing what this show has become in comparison to season 1.
Also, is it being heavily hinted at that Will is in love with Mike? Of course, I'm not finished with Part 1 so maybe that is addressed, but I keep getting that vibe from Will.
Those last 10 minutes or so of "Dear Billy" was just so fucking good. The one-shot shootout in episode 5 was also badass. It's really amazing what this show has become in comparison to season 1.
Also, is it being heavily hinted at that Will is in love with Mike? Of course, I'm not finished with Part 1 so maybe that is addressed, but I keep getting that vibe from Will.
The subtext is 100% there, but a couple of the actors have been tiptoeing around it in interviews (Millie keeps refusing to "put a label" on it) to the point at which I kind of wonder if it's just something they don't intend to pay off this season at all despite the content being so achingly obvious.
Then again, you also have David Harbour outright talking about it on camera as if it's a done deal so who knows.
I haven't watched interviews with the cast so I didn't know they continued to skirt the issue. I think it's an interesting implication. When viewed in hindsight, it seems pretty obvious that Will would have developed this love for Mike considering Mike has been by his side and been his general protector for 3 seasons or so.
Regardless, I am really hoping Will gets the happiness he deserves. Dude has dealt with so much shit for nearly 4 seasons. Part of me wonders if they're setting him up for tragedy, though.
Yeah. Will has been implied to be "different" from the rest of the core group since all the way back in S1, and that "difference" was apparently one of the main targets of Dad Byers' abuse. The first hints of there being something more than just friendship from Will toward Mike was probably S2, but it really became clear in S3 when Will started getting really frustrated with Mike for trying to grow up and spend time with Eleven instead of him.
My expectation has always been that Will would turn out this way, so I hope that, given how much time they've had to write the show out their way without having to worry about being cancelled, they found out a way to pay it off well and not just have Will confess his love for Mike and then have one of them die immediately afterward.
I really hope that's not how it goes, either. Because that would really cheapen things. I do wonder if they'll introduce a love interest in season 5. I think Will having this unrequited love just can't work long-term. I imagine we get a confronting of the truth between the two of them (or three of them with El) towards the end of this season followed by a reconciliation and then Will finds a partner next season.
I went through pretty much the exact same experience as Will did as a teenager, especially when my best friend and I transitioned to high school together and he had a bunch of success dating while I couldn't figure it out myself. It might just be me recognizing my own lived experiences in a fictional character, but the subtext at least in my mind is super clear.
Yeah. I hope they're at least able to broach the subject this season (maybe Will's painting has something to do with it), because Will definitely came within a half-sentence of admitting it in the bedroom scene before everything went to shit. Shoving it off to the final season and introducing a love interest in that same season would feel really rushed when they have plenty of time in the current Will/Mike subplot to at least address it. Especially considering how much of that subplot has been running jokes with Suzie's annoying family.
The cast has air tight NDA's and are probably cautious about getting caught out in interviews.
I just hope with Vecna's origin that
it's not that he just always had powers because that feels incongruous with the show to date and how powers have been the result of experimentation etc. Brenner getting involved early on kind of suggests that's probably not the case. I was thinking it might be WW2 Nazi occultism related but his listed birth date is a couple years after the war but I could still see it somehow tying into WW2 programs. His birth also pre-dates MKUltra but the event with his parents is several years after MKUltra started
Thanks for sharing. I'm wondering if two instances of lgbtq rejection would be good for this show though. Mike's not gay, so that wouldn't happen. Robin already rejected Steve.
I THINK as long as Will winds up happy in the end, it's alright. Not everybody needs to wind up with their first high school crush.
Argyle is 100% there to lighten the mood of a very heavy show. I'm here for it.
wtf. today I learned the "second half" is only two episodes? that sucks. I figured it was 7 more.
The second half is about four hours of content. The first episode is roughly as long as the part 1 finale and the second episode is 2 hours and 15 minutes.
I feel like there is enough done to lighten the mood that he feels too much
I mean, that's good. But all the eps so far have been at least an 70-75 minutes. Seems like they should have just waited until all the editing was done and put it all out.
This split was 100% done for marketing purposes. I'm pretty sure the part 2 episodes are in the can and just waiting for their scheduled release.
yeah I have the same feeling. Place them far enough apart that you have to pay for two months of Netflix to see them all.
I really liked this season (so far) probably more than any of the previous ones. Ep.4 is the best episode of the show by far to me.
Overall though I kinda think you could remove both the 11 and Hopper side-stories from this season and it would do nothing but improve the show?
Overall though I kinda think you could remove both the 11 and Hopper side-stories from this season and it would do nothing but improve the show?
Series spoiler question regarding upside down
When 11 destroyed 1 and somehow created the upside down...was that the same time as Will's abduction or shortly after? It doesn't make sense for the upside down to be stuck in time if 1 was sucked into it prior
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Maybe, but it doesn't seem to be the case.
For example, the official final runtime of episode 9 has only been known since last Friday. It was rumored to be 2 hours and 30 minutes before.
And there's this earlier tweet from last week too:
So by the look of it, they really are still working to get the final two episodes ready.
argyle is the only one with a head over his shoulders, when he is not high.
everybody else was just too comfortable with being persecuted by the goverment killers.
he was the voice of reason for the 15 minutes he was sober
lmao
That doesn't change anything though. They could have waited until July. But they showed part 1 now because they know people will sub to see it ASAP, and then sub again in July.
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He gave some good dating advice to Jonathan too, lol!
Oh, yeah, for sure.
maybe stuck in post for a bit longer. But still, they could've dumped the whole series when it was finished :P
The Upside Down already existed as a plane. The specific portion of the Upside Down that resembles a time-frozen Hawkins was created at the exact moment Eleven made contact with the Mind Flayer for the first time. Think of it like an empty glass being filled with water. The glass existed before the water was poured into it.
I was going to write that my main hangup if the story goes the route of Will accepting not hooking up with Mike is that it'd basically be a partial retread/reversal of Robin and Steve's storyline, and then I remembered that Robin's already kind of en route toward a potential love interest in this story and that Will's comparatively been so kowtowed into being the third wheel to Mike's four seasons worth of hyper heterosexuality that the pretext is certainly way different.
I think the biggest disservice to Will has been that he's probably the character who's received the least amount of side characters gravitating around his orbit, which is definitely a consequence of him spending so much of the series as a plot device. Mike, Lucas and Dustin consistently had a clear trio dynamic throughout Season 1, but they spun out even further throughout the seasons with Mike having Eleven, Lucas having Max and his basketball team, and Dustin having the absolute lion's share of the Scoops Troop and Eddie. Will only really has Mike, and while he does end up being Eleven's step brother in this season, it doesn't seem like it's developed his character outside of the fact that it shows how he's still a good hearted guy who looks out for his friends. It's trouble to balance such a big cast, but I feel he definitely deserved having some more characters to interact with, even if his Season 3 moments of coping with his undying love for his party are some of the best moments in this series.
I think the biggest disservice to Will has been that he's probably the character who's received the least amount of side characters gravitating around his orbit, which is definitely a consequence of him spending so much of the series as a plot device. Mike, Lucas and Dustin consistently had a clear trio dynamic throughout Season 1, but they spun out even further throughout the seasons with Mike having Eleven, Lucas having Max and his basketball team, and Dustin having the absolute lion's share of the Scoops Troop and Eddie. Will only really has Mike, and while he does end up being Eleven's step brother in this season, it doesn't seem like it's developed his character outside of the fact that it shows how he's still a good hearted guy who looks out for his friends. It's trouble to balance such a big cast, but I feel he definitely deserved having some more characters to interact with, even if his Season 3 moments of coping with his undying love for his party are some of the best moments in this series.
They pretty much lay the cards on the table this season. There's a scene where Will is talking to Mike about how scary it can be telling others how you really feel, especially those you care about most and the camera just kind of lingers on Will looking at Mike.
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Yeah... I'm generally not a fan of this recent trend of splitting seasons in two either.
I like don't remember season 1 at all.
So after 11 sends 001 to the upside down, all the season 1 stuff happens after that right? She doesn't make the portal until after this happened? So they cleaned up all the bodies and kept doing science after this?
Correct, the second Upside Down gate and the events of Season 1 didn't occur until several years after the Hawkins Lab massacre. Presumably Brenner discovered that Eleven opened up a gateway to another dimension, and since she was the last remaining test subject she was probably put through even harder testing in that time to open it back up. The circumstances of Eleven opening the second gate is something we still don't know fully since that seems to be when the Upside Down took the shape of a frozen-in-time Hawkins.
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About Will, there's this scene very early in episode 1 that the show went out of its way to show us.
It doesn't necessarily mean anything on its own, but when adding everything else since season 1 the subtext becomes pretty clear I feel. I'm not necessarily sure about him having a real crush on Mike, but I guess we'll see what the writers will do with all of that by the end of the show.
It doesn't necessarily mean anything on its own, but when adding everything else since season 1 the subtext becomes pretty clear I feel. I'm not necessarily sure about him having a real crush on Mike, but I guess we'll see what the writers will do with all of that by the end of the show.
About Will, there's this scene very early in episode 1 that the show went out of its way to show us.
It doesn't necessarily mean anything on its own, but when adding everything else since season 1 the subtext becomes pretty clear I feel. I'm not necessarily sure about him having a real crush on Mike, but I guess we'll see what the writers will do with all of that by the end of the show.
Also girl like...this is super duper forward!!!! Are they even friendly?? lol
About Will, there's this scene very early in episode 1 that the show went out of its way to show us.
It doesn't necessarily mean anything on its own, but when adding everything else since season 1 the subtext becomes pretty clear I feel. I'm not necessarily sure about him having a real crush on Mike, but I guess we'll see what the writers will do with all of that by the end of the show.
Also I saw for his scientific heroes, that he chose Alan Turing. I thought that was pretty interesting clue that I even mentioned to my wife. I feel like the show is signaling it hard.
The thing that makes me "suspicious" of Will's storyline (from a narrative perspective) is the Steve-Robin fakeout last year that NotLiquid referenced earlier. His story arc is being hinted at very overtly this season, which from a storytelling perspective would suggest they're building toward something specific this season. But after Robin, it makes me wonder if they're deliberately messing with the audience's expectations again.
I've read some speculation that maybe Will is ace, which might be a decent direction to go with the arc. His big hangup has been how Mike has ignored his friendship. Will's entire arc (with getting stuck in the upside down) might be about the sense of isolation he feels on an existential level, separate from his friends.
I'm interested in seeing how they wrap up his story with Mike. It's definitely been the most underdeveloped relationship since the first season.
I've read some speculation that maybe Will is ace, which might be a decent direction to go with the arc. His big hangup has been how Mike has ignored his friendship. Will's entire arc (with getting stuck in the upside down) might be about the sense of isolation he feels on an existential level, separate from his friends.
I'm interested in seeing how they wrap up his story with Mike. It's definitely been the most underdeveloped relationship since the first season.
So I have one more, which is Millie and Noah Schnapp have also said that Will's sexuality is left up to interpretation by the viewers. But Finn Wolfhard said that we'll find out who Will "likes" in the back half of the season. Are you guys going to address Will's sexuality directly?
The full arc of the story hasn't come to pass yet because we really are in Episode 7, it's what we call the end of our second act. So there's a lot more resolution in the story; we're trying to do the same with the characters' arcs. And I would say that applies to Will's arc. So it's going to be much easier to talk about for everyone — the actors and us — once those final two episodes have played. But certainly, his journey and arc is far from finished.
https://variety.com/2022/tv/feature...fer-brothers-is-will-gay-season-4-1235284214/
The full arc of the story hasn't come to pass yet because we really are in Episode 7, it's what we call the end of our second act. So there's a lot more resolution in the story; we're trying to do the same with the characters' arcs. And I would say that applies to Will's arc. So it's going to be much easier to talk about for everyone — the actors and us — once those final two episodes have played. But certainly, his journey and arc is far from finished.
https://variety.com/2022/tv/feature...fer-brothers-is-will-gay-season-4-1235284214/
Yeah, I'm not really needing an answer to the, "Is Will gay?" question. He could be a number of orientations. I'm more interested in how will his seemingly implicit attraction to Mike is resolved.
For real, that shit blew me away.
That mustachioed dude secretly knew his shit lol.
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