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Oct 27, 2017
12,972
Except it isn't totally barren, the vines that are a part of the hive mind move back through the gate 001 got thrown into. Also don't forget that the mind flayer is also made out of black clouds.

If the Mind Flayer is lording over this dimension, what are his malevolent intentions? Transforming Henry into Vecna to serve as his general doesn't make a ton of sense to me. And where/what is the Mind Flayer doing if he's leaving Vecna to deal with Hawkins? If the dimension is one giant super organism, it would defeat the purpose of needing Vecna in the first place.

Either the Mind Flayer is a very ineffective malevolent God or it just really enjoys table setting lol.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611


Millie absolutely kills it. Its funny seeing her reaction to Da Bomb though in the back half.
 

CrazyDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,727
Ser
If the Mind Flayer is lording over this dimension, what are his malevolent intentions? Transforming Henry into Vecna to serve as his general doesn't make a ton of sense to me. And where/what is the Mind Flayer doing if he's leaving Vecna to deal with Hawkins? If the dimension is one giant super organism, it would defeat the purpose of needing Vecna in the first place.

Either the Mind Flayer is a very ineffective malevolent God or it just really enjoys table setting lol.
His intention is to spread his influence to the other side. Remember what Vecna is doing, he is opening gate all around Hawkins using teenagers.. The mind flayer is not able to open gates, Vecna just so happens to be someone who has the same powers as Eleven, who also opened a gate.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,972
Why didn't
Henry just remove the thingy himself? It looked like it was barely under his skin, should have been easy to cut it out with a knife. And even if one is not available, Henry looks like the kind of guy who would just go at it with his nails.
Was actually kind of wondering this myself. Perhaps a bit of Stockholm syndrome considering the abuse he was subjected to? Only explanation that really makes sense.
 

CrazyDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,727
Why didn't
Henry just remove the thingy himself? It looked like it was barely under his skin, should have been easy to cut it out with a knife. And even if one is not available, Henry looks like the kind of guy who would just go at it with his nails.
Was actually kind of wondering this myself. Perhaps a bit of Stockholm syndrome considering the abuse he was subjected to? Only explanation that really makes sense.
It's possible that the device was near a major artery, so using a knife on himself might have ended up either him curry the artery and killing himself. Using El's power might be more precise in targeting just the device in his neck.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,972
His intention is to spread his influence to the other side. Remember what Vecna is doing, he is opening gate all around Hawkins using teenagers.. The mind flayer is not able to open gates, Vecna just so happens to be someone who has the same powers as Eleven, who also opened a gate.

But the Demogorgons in season 1 opened temporary gates by themselves that later closed. We saw one create a portal in the school which El comes back through and there's also the one that Nancy traverses in the tree.

So it would have to be Vecna somehow creating these portals for the Demogorgons to transit through.


It's possible that the device was near a major artery, so using a knife on himself might have ended up either him curry the artery and killing himself. Using El's power might be more precise in targeting just the device in his neck.

I can buy that. Hadn't considered just how insanely difficult and awkward extracting that from yourself would be.
 
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Conditional-Pancakes

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,823
the wilderness


Millie absolutely kills it. Its funny seeing her reaction to Da Bomb though in the back half.


yNhaKmT.gif
 

CrazyDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,727
But the Demogorgons in season 1 opened temporary gates by themselves that later closed. We saw one create a portal in the school which El comes back through and there's also the one that Nancy traverses in the tree.

So it would have to be Vecna somehow creating these portals for the Demogorgons to transit through.
Neither of those portals seem to have vines coming out of them like the main gate and I don't think they can exist without a main gate.
 

Heysoos

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,339
Somewhat dumb question but is this season like extra dark? I'm having trouble seeing some scenes on my OLED TV.
 

hydruxo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,407
Question about Eleven in this Season

I'm sorry if this has already been covered; but does anyone else get the feeling they are building Eleven up to be a religious or holy figure? All the people involved in hiding and protecting her all stare at her in reverence, its been said multiple times that they 'Believe in her" and even the guard that was kidnapped and tortured by the US government begs for them not to hurt her.

Which also leads to this question - was 1 an actual, tangible demon or monster? He clearly has incredibly strong powers even as a human. Was the Upside Down created from the anguish of his death? Or did it always exist and that is where he, and by extension all the kids, draw their powers from?

It's all really interesting and not at all where I expected this Season to go.

I don't see the religious figure comparison, and I don't think they'd go that direction with her. Owens mentions the people at the NINA Project view El as somewhat of a celebrity, primarily because they've been working to prepare for her arrival for a long time and seeing her finally there is kind of a "holy shit she's actually here now" moment for them.

As for whether or not El's fight with 001 created the Upside Down or if it already existed, it's unclear right now and I think there are arguments for both sides. Interestingly enough, there's a new interview from Variety with the Duffers that came out today where they specifically ask this: "At what point in the timeline does Eleven create the Upside Down in relation to when the series starts?" to which the Duffers give a detailed answer about El's age but don't say anything about Variety throwing in the bit about Eleven creating the Upside Down.

I did find it interesting that the part where 001 is being thrown in the air in the Upside Down was a really narrow volcanic looking place with lots of lightning, almost as if it was still being formed while 001 was being flung into it. That's just speculation on my part but it looked much different than when we typically see the Upside Down. That being said, the Mind Flayer is kind of the biggest question mark right now. We don't know anything about its origin and it's been laying low letting Vecna do everything this season so far. If we find out the origins of the Mind Flayer then I think that'll probably be the answer to a lot of questions around the Upside Down that people have had, but I feel like that may be something they leave for S5.
 

Terraforce

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
18,917
I'm so tired of these guys y'all

Riverdale-Archie-and-the-Red-Circle.jpg
They're up there with Billy for me in terms of my favorite antagonists. Everything in the upside down is great of course, but real life villains with realistic and grounded tendencies feels much more tense to me. Whether that be Billy's racist behaviors or this new squad's religious crusade angle with rallying the town against the main crew.
 

Kalik

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
4,523
how did Kali survive the massacre at Hawkins Lab?...it was implied that everyone was killed (except for Brenner and Eleven)?
 

Jakenbakin

Member
Jun 17, 2018
11,792
They're up there with Billy for me in terms of my favorite antagonists. Everything in the upside down is great of course, but real life villains with realistic and grounded tendencies feels much more tense to me. Whether that be Billy's racist behaviors or this new squad's religious crusade angle with rallying the town against the main crew.
High five, I love Jason in this season. At much as he inhabits the role of the asshole jock you're meant to hate, it's reined in with some genuine humanity. You see how he cares about his girlfriend, you can see that he is actually pretty close with his friends. It's only when he's giving his first big speech to the school that you feel like he's a facade, and by the time he gets his big speech to the town hall it's no longer a facade, but that he genuinely inhabits the bullshit he's spewing. Loved watching his character struggle to make sense of what was happening right after claiming he doesn't believe in the supernatural, and you can see his expression demonstrating the struggle before he just goes all in on it. Really cool villain in my opinion. Also brings a great element of tension to the town and the police force.
 
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Conditional-Pancakes

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,823
the wilderness
yes but at the time Season 2 was filmed they didn't write the Season 4 Vecna/Henry Massacre at Hawkins Lab storyline yet...when they showed Kali earlier in Season 4 she was maybe 9 years old...she escaped the Lab at that age?

I think it's implied that she escaped before the massacre? In any case, I'm sure we'll learn more about Eight/Kali before the show is over.
 

Kalik

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
4,523
I think it's implied that she escaped before the massacre? In any case, I'm sure we'll learn more about Eight/Kali before the show is over.

Kali is the one character who I really didn't like at all in the series...most of the characters that came after Season 1 I liked- Max, Robin, Billy etc but that Kali story in Chicago was awful...hopefully they don't come back to it...
 

Wyze

Member
Nov 15, 2018
3,138
Am I the only one disappointed in Will and Mike being so passive at watching Eleven get bullied? Then Mike lashed out on Eleven for defending herself against the bully, I was so pissed at these 2.
 

CrazyDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,727
Am I the only one disappointed in Will and Mike being so passive at watching Eleven get bullied? Then Mike lashed out on Eleven for defending herself against the bully, I was so pissed at these 2.
Will has a meek personality, so I understand it on him. He doesn't really come across as someone who would confrontational.
 

Ninhead

Drive-in Mutant
Avenger
Nov 18, 2017
2,284
I don't know if this has been thought or said yet-

Brenner is Xavier. Owens is MacTaggart. Eleven is Jean Grey.
 

hydruxo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,407
Am I the only one disappointed in Will and Mike being so passive at watching Eleven get bullied? Then Mike lashed out on Eleven for defending herself against the bully, I was so pissed at these 2.
Yeah, that was frustrating to see Mike not really do anything. He should've immediately gone and gotten El off the rink as soon as he heard the DJ call her the "local snitch" but instead he goes and tries to get the song turned off, which was pretty pointless because she was still out there in the middle being bullied. I think part of it was him being caught off-guard because Will had just told him El wasn't telling the truth about everything, but I still feel like Mike has always come to El's defense very quickly in the past so it felt weird he didn't run out there right away. lt was just so bizarre that he let her stay out there while a group of bullies circled her and videotaped her.

As for Will, like CrazyDude said he's not confrontational usually so I could understand him not doing much. Plus he did at least tell Mike about El lying. I was mostly just disappointed in Mike during that whole thing. Go help your girl out, man.
 

Tavernade

Tavernade
Moderator
Sep 18, 2018
8,611
so you don't think showing teenagers getting their bones bent and eyes gouged out is dark enough?

I'm just saying there's a difference between killing characters we've known for an episode or two and characters we've known for years. The plot would have to stop and deal with the ramifications of the latter, and they couldn't pull a 'he's just hiding' like they did with Hopper again.
 
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Conditional-Pancakes

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,823
the wilderness
Very cool breakdown of the many references to 80s stuff and other small details that are found in season 4 Volume One.

(Spoilers for episodes 1-7, obviously)

 
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Kalik

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
4,523
...

kudos to Jamie Campbell Bower...he did an amazing job as Vecna/Henry Creel/Number 001...even though you could see the reveal coming from a mile away it was still well executed...totally gave me a Tom Riddle/Voldemort vibe...the actor even has a connection to the Harry Potter movies as he played young Grindelwald in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows
 

CrazyDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,727
...

kudos to Jamie Campbell Bower...he did an amazing job as Vecna/Henry Creel/Number 001...even though you could see the reveal coming from a mile away it was still well executed...totally gave me a Tom Riddle/Voldemort vibe...the actor even has a connection to the Harry Potter movies as he played young Grindelwald in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows
Casting has always been one of the strongest things about this show.
 

RoadDogg

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,057
I hope they stick the landing because the origin story in the last episode really turned me off to the whole thing and could ruin everything for me.
 

Kalik

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
4,523


I liked the earlier report of the finale being 2 hours and 30 minutes...hopefully this gets more TV series to do extra long episodes...not just 40-45 minutes but 90 minutes or 2 hours...take advantage of the resources of streaming platforms...you don't need to conform to 40 minute episodes like network TV...go crazy with episode lengths
 

RustyNails

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
24,586
That fucking Pass the Duchie song is stuck in my head goddamit
 
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Conditional-Pancakes

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,823
the wilderness
...

kudos to Jamie Campbell Bower...he did an amazing job as Vecna/Henry Creel/Number 001...even though you could see the reveal coming from a mile away it was still well executed...totally gave me a Tom Riddle/Voldemort vibe...the actor even has a connection to the Harry Potter movies as he played young Grindelwald in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

For sure!

After watching the whole thing, I didn't even realize that Jamie Campbell Bower was also the actual actor under all the prosthetics and makeup an lube that make up Vecna. Kudos to him indeed!
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
Tinfoil

Eleven is the source of everything. For Eleven's powers to materialize she needed a "monster" to defeat. Future-Eleven was the source of his powers as a kid in the past.
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,871
Y'all weren't kidding about episode 4, whew

I've really been enjoying this season, but even with the longer episode runtime, everything does feel stretched kinda thin. There's not much downtime just to see the characters hang out or interact or anything, because there's so much going on in every single episode. I'm saying this mostly because I want more Steve, and he hasn't had a lot of focus so far lol

But yeah, otherwise this has been great
 

Ashodin

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,593
Durham, NC
Y'all weren't kidding about episode 4, whew

I've really been enjoying this season, but even with the longer episode runtime, everything does feel stretched kinda thin. There's not much downtime just to see the characters hang out or interact or anything, because there's so much going on in every single episode. I'm saying this mostly because I want more Steve, and he hasn't had a lot of focus so far lol

But yeah, otherwise this has been great
keep watching lmao
 

Yu Narukami

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,129
I'm slowly catching up to the series as I started watching this week. In the finale of S1 Hopper totally ratted the kids out right? Was he expecting El to neutralise everyone?
 

Hellwarden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,078
Two episode in. Really solid stuff so far.

That said, genuinely pretty sad at what they did with Jonathan.

Jonathan went from the mostly dependable nice guy who had big dreams and cared about his family to someone who doesn't seem to care for anything. Which would be fine, if it wasn't mostly played as a joke. I won't say it's tasteless or anything, it's just a depressing direction for the character. (Kinda hard to me to not see that as the drama from his real life actor leaking into the show tbh.)