Stranger Things S4 | OT | Every ending has a beginning (Open spoilers)

Hobbun · Jun 3, 2022

Bratpack said:
I would guess spring 24 at the earliest if filming starts this fall they'll be shooting for maybe 9-10 months at a guess then 8 months in post production/CGI it rounds out about a spring/early summer 24 release

The COVID delays withstanding, has filming really taking that long for seasons? 9-10 months? I had figured that was something more along the lines of 4-5 months.

CrazyDude said:
It is not completely done, but they do have the outline for the season done. I am betting that filming won't be as widespread next season, so that would decrease time as well.

Also, I believe season 4 was the first time they released a season where it didn't happen around the same time of the year. Like season 3 released in July and the battle at the mall happened on the 4th of July. Similar to season 2 when it released right before Halloween and it took right around the same time on the show.

Season 4 (at least volume 1) is 6 months after the battle of Starcourt Mall, which would place it sometime in January. So it will be interesting what they will do with Season 5. Will they try to line it up with the current time of the year like they have in prior seasons or just abandon that. If they want to line up the time of the year in season 5 to our real time of the year, that could some delay.

CrazyDude · Jun 3, 2022

NotLiquid said:
Will probably aged the fastest out of all the kids.

It's funny how he's consistently been depicted as the increasingly "popular" kid of the main bunch, between him being the only one who gets asked out by someone they don't already know at the end of Season 2, and then him getting hit on in Season 4 by his classmate. Mike and Dustin are still considered "outcasts" into high school while Lucas, despite getting into the basketball team and hoping to up his cred, spends his time benched and coping with inferiority.

Even though he is the youngest of the cast, besides Erica.

SecondNature · Jun 3, 2022

btw is this the final season?

I wanna see more in this kind of genre/setting. 90s or earlier, middle of nowhere town, scifi shit.

CrazyDude · Jun 3, 2022

SecondNature said:
btw is this the final season?

I wanna see more in this kind of genre/setting. 90s or earlier, middle of nowhere town, scifi shit.

Next season will be the final season, there will be spin offs, so you might get 90s.

Conditional-Pancakes · Jun 3, 2022

Do you think they would be crazy enough as to

make 001 the biological father of every test subject, including El?

Zip · Jun 3, 2022

Conditional-Pancakes said:
Do you think they would be crazy enough as to

make 001 the biological father of every test subject, including El?

I don't think so.

the age between 001 and 002 for instance seemed too close. They could do a 'genetic' father sort of thing using splicing or something to modify the kids though. I just wonder why they kept 001 around and so close to the kids when he was clearly dangerous and psychopathic.

Lari · Jun 3, 2022

Where is my Robin and Steve working at the video rental slice of life no conflict series?!

CrazyDude · Jun 3, 2022

O-Zips said:
I don't think so.

the age between 001 and 002 for instance seemed too close. They could do a 'genetic' father sort of thing using splicing or something to modify the kids though. I just wonder why they kept 001 around and so close to the kids when he was clearly dangerous and psychopathic.

001 is like 31, 002 seems to be 15-18. Which would put 001 at 13-16 at 002's birth.

Gustaf · Jun 3, 2022

O-Zips said:
I don't think so.

the age between 001 and 002 for instance seemed too close. They could do a 'genetic' father sort of thing using splicing or something to modify the kids though. I just wonder why they kept 001 around and so close to the kids when he was clearly dangerous and psychopathic.

what??

they just need him to be 12 to have viable sperm

Kalik · Jun 3, 2022

will they ever have the guts to kill off any of the core ST kids- meaning Eleven, Mike, Will, Dustin, Lucas?...or will this end up being another Harry Potter where secondary characters die around them but the main core of Harry, Ron and Hermione survive?

Donepalace · Jun 3, 2022

Hobbun said:
The COVID delays withstanding, has filming really taking that long for seasons? 9-10 months? I had figured that was something more along the lines of 4-5 months.

Also, I believe season 4 was the first time they released a season where it didn't happen around the same time of the year. Like season 3 released in July and the battle at the mall happened on the 4th of July. Similar to season 2 when it released right before Halloween and it took right around the same time on the show.

Season 4 (at least volume 1) is 6 months after the battle of Starcourt Mall, which would place it sometime in January. So it will be interesting what they will do with Season 5. Will they try to line it up with the current time of the year like they have in prior seasons or just abandon that. If they want to line up the time of the year in season 5 to our real time of the year, that could some delay.

I think given how big the scope of the show has gotten this year its naturally gonna take longer to shoot they are basically producing movie quality TV now with 30million budget episodes this season is like 13 hours in total which is insane S1 for instance was 7h40m

Marcus Aurelius · Jun 3, 2022

Kalik said:
will they ever have the guts to kill off any of the core ST kids- meaning Eleven, Mike, Will, Dustin, Lucas?...or will this end up being another Harry Potter where secondary characters die around them but the main core of Harry, Ron and Hermione survive?

I mean....Does it serve the plot well to kill one of them off? Or are we just doing it for shock value?

Kalik · Jun 3, 2022

Marcus Aurelius said:
I mean....Does it serve the plot well to kill one of them off? Or are we just doing it for shock value?

it's not for shock value...it shows that anyone can die...if every main character survives then there's no real stakes involved

and another question from Season 4...

Did Eleven create the Upside Down?...or did she just open the gate to a place that already existed?...did Vecna create it, then why is the Mind Flayer considered the ruler?

oddjobs · Jun 3, 2022

Kalik said:
Questions after watching Volume 1 of Season 4...

1) how/why did Brenner make One/Henry Creel an orderly at the Lab?...he knows of his Voldemort type of power so why keep him around?

2) when Eleven banishes Henry/Vecna to the Upside Down she re-gains her powers after recalling a 'happy memory'- her birth...but how the hell does she remember the moment she was born?

1.) he's (possibly) the first person to exhibit such powers, and as Brenner is trying to duplicate him (Henry's words,) it makes sense that he could coach the kids in the use of their powers better than literally anyone else

2.) probably plot reasons, but her mother also showed her some of what happened in season 2

oddjobs · Jun 3, 2022

Kalik said:
Did Eleven create the Upside Down?...or did she just open the gate to a place that already existed?...did Vecna create it, then why is the Mind Flayer considered the ruler?

Most likely the dimension itself existed already. However, the specific "upside down Hawkins" was created when El got in touch with the demogorgon (season 1)

Dabanton · Jun 3, 2022

Kalik said:
Questions after watching Volume 1 of Season 4...

1) how/why did Brenner make One/Henry Creel an orderly at the Lab?...he knows of his Voldemort type of power so why keep him around?

2) when Eleven banishes Henry/Vecna to the Upside Down she re-gains her powers after recalling a 'happy memory'- her birth...but how the hell does she remember the moment she was born?

Well, he couldn't use his powers whilst that object was stuck in his body, that he made El pull out of him.

So it seems like a very Brenner thing to do. Keep him around and under his control.

Kalik · Jun 3, 2022

oddjobs said:
1.) he's (possibly) the first person to exhibit such powers, and as Brenner is trying to duplicate him (Henry's words,) it makes sense that he could coach the kids in the use of their powers better than literally anyone else

but he's not really coaching them...he's like this outcast which is why he speaks to Eleven in secret...when he got caught speaking to Eleven he was beaten up by Brenner and the guards

oddjobs · Jun 3, 2022

Kalik said:
but he's not really coaching them...he's like this outcast which is why he speaks to Eleven in secret...when he got caught speaking to Eleven he was beaten up by Brenner and the guards

I think that was because he got caught telling El stuff she shouldn't know - that the other students are looking to get rid of her.
My interpretation is that Brenner wanted to enact a "survival of the fittest"-type of situation, trying to see if El could handle it (and Henry ruined that by warning her.)

Donepalace · Jun 3, 2022

Kalik said:
it's not for shock value...it shows that anyone can die...if every main character survives then there's no real stakes involved

and another question from Season 4...

Did Eleven create the Upside Down?...or did she just open the gate to a place that already existed?...did Vecna create it, then why is the Mind Flayer considered the ruler?

I don't think eleven created it she just opened the portal to it and vecna is using the upside down to his advantage to ruin/destroy the world like he wanted.

EagleBen · Jun 3, 2022

Hobbun said:
The COVID delays withstanding, has filming really taking that long for seasons? 9-10 months? I had figured that was something more along the lines of 4-5 months.

Also, I believe season 4 was the first time they released a season where it didn't happen around the same time of the year. Like season 3 released in July and the battle at the mall happened on the 4th of July. Similar to season 2 when it released right before Halloween and it took right around the same time on the show.

Season 4 (at least volume 1) is 6 months after the battle of Starcourt Mall, which would place it sometime in January. So it will be interesting what they will do with Season 5. Will they try to line it up with the current time of the year like they have in prior seasons or just abandon that. If they want to line up the time of the year in season 5 to our real time of the year, that could some delay.

Season 4 is during spring break, not January. It's a huge plot point.

3rdman · Jun 3, 2022

Kalik said:
it's not for shock value...it shows that anyone can die...if every main character survives then there's no real stakes involved

and another question from Season 4...

Did Eleven create the Upside Down?...or did she just open the gate to a place that already existed?...did Vecna create it, then why is the Mind Flayer considered the ruler?

Why do any of them have to die? The series itself was born as a love letter to early 80s adventure movies like The Goonies or ET. Do you think Chunk should have been killed off so that they can claim "anyone can die"? I just don't think its that type of series.

Soliloquy of a Dogge · Jun 3, 2022

Kalik said:
Questions after watching Volume 1 of Season 4...

1) how/why did Brenner make One/Henry Creel an orderly at the Lab?...he knows of his Voldemort type of power so why keep him around?

2) when Eleven banishes Henry/Vecna to the Upside Down she re-gains her powers after recalling a 'happy memory'- her birth...but how the hell does she remember the moment she was born?

1. It's his way of being able to exert control over him. Knowing that he's inhibited and constrained to the lab renders him pretty much helpless.

2. If the theory that Peter/Henry has a biological relation to Eleven beyond his DNA being injected into her, it would make sense that she has the same ability to alter time or non-linearly experience memories/events in the same way he displayed.

CrazyDude · Jun 3, 2022

EagleBen said:
Season 4 is during spring break, not January. It's a huge plot point.

March 22nd to be more exact.

CrackaFett · Jun 3, 2022

sfedai0 said:
Does anyone think Will may play a crucial part of the Upside Down in the finale? I'd be disappointed if hes not somehow involved in someway given that he was the genesis in introducing the other world.

Im curious of what that painting he made is. Could it be some foreshadow clue that he isnt sure what the meaning is? He brings it with him and it will finally make sense?

CrazyDude · Jun 3, 2022

CrackaFett said:
Im curious of what that painting he made is. Could it be some foreshadow clue that he isnt sure what the meaning is? He brings it with him and it will finally make sense?

I best you that it is probably a painting of Will and Mike's D&D character.

Soliloquy of a Dogge · Jun 3, 2022

Kalik said:
Did Eleven create the Upside Down?...or did she just open the gate to a place that already existed?...did Vecna create it, then why is the Mind Flayer considered the ruler?

This is more ambiguous.

The reflection we see when El banishes Henry/Peter to the Upside Down could be limited to Hawkins itself and created as a result of her opening the portal or she may have created the dimension itself. We really don't have much to go on when it comes to knowing how long this dimension has existed, what its properties are, if other reflections of it exist outside of Hawkins or where the creatures that inhabit it came from.

As for the Mind Flayer being the ruler, that is Dustin's supposition. Considering Henry/Peter had a fascination with Black Widow spiders, to me it would make more sense if he created the Mind Flayer in an image he desired.

oddjobs · Jun 3, 2022

Soliloquy of a Dogge said:
2. If the theory that Peter/Henry has a biological relation to Eleven beyond his DNA being injected into her, it would make sense that she has the same ability to alter time or non-linearly experience them in the same way he displayed.

Not disagreeing but a couple of things to consider:

1.) El's mom exhibited (some amount of) the same powers that El has so whatever she can do might not be fully reliant on being sired by Henry
2.) I don't know if he has an ability to control time - it could just be that he physically manipulated the clock in the scene we first saw it. Furthermore he has the same powers as Kali from season 2 => he can make anyone see/experience (or not) whatever he wants them to

Kalik · Jun 3, 2022

3rdman said:
Why do any of them have to die? The series itself was born as a love letter to early 80s adventure movies like The Goonies or ET. Do you think Chunk should have been killed off so that they can claim "anyone can die"? I just don't think its that type of series.

it wasn't that type of series in Season 1 but gradually as the characters are growing up, the story is also becoming more mature...this season involved a lot of horror and graphic violence so it definitely could lead to one or more of the main characters dying

Hobbun · Jun 3, 2022

EagleBen said:
Season 4 is during spring break, not January. It's a huge plot point.

That's true, with the visit. But I remember them also mentioning 6 months after season 3. So the timeline is a bit off. Not a big deal, but was just commenting on if they will try to line the season 5 release back to the same time in the show.

Bratpack said:
I think given how big the scope of the show has gotten this year its naturally gonna take longer to shoot they are basically producing movie quality TV now with 30million budget episodes this season is like 13 hours in total which is insane S1 for instance was 7h40m

I will take the longer filming and post-production for longer episodes/seasons. The lengths of the episodes are insane this year, but it's not even felt. Goes by so quickly. Even the movie length episode 7.

Donepalace · Jun 3, 2022

CrackaFett said:
Im curious of what that painting he made is. Could it be some foreshadow clue that he isnt sure what the meaning is? He brings it with him and it will finally make sense?

I think his painting will make Mike know what his favourite song is or something. Vecna will probably latch into Will ASAP when he arrives back in Hawkins given all the bizarre trauma he had and his connection with the mind flayer seems on another level

CrazyDude · Jun 3, 2022

Soliloquy of a Dogge said:
This is more ambiguous.

The reflection we see when El banishes Henry/Peter to the Upside Down could be limited to Hawkins itself and created as a result of her opening the portal or she may have created the dimension itself. We really don't have much to go on when it comes to knowing how long this dimension has existed, what its properties are, if other reflections of it exist outside of Hawkins or where the creatures that inhabit it came from.

As for the Mind Flayer being the ruler, that is Dustin's supposition. Considering Henry/Peter had a fascination with Black Widow spiders, to me it would make more sense if he created the Mind Flayer in an image he desired.

Henry isn't just fascinated with Spiders, he worships them. He called them gods of our world. He even creates an alter for them in the attic and prays towards them. It makes more sense for him to find the MF and become convinced that it is a god than it is for him to create god.

viral · Jun 3, 2022

Why didn't

Henry just remove the thingy himself? It looked like it was barely under his skin, should have been easy to cut it out with a knife. And even if one is not available, Henry looks like the kind of guy who would just go at it with his nails.

Tavernade · Jun 3, 2022

Kalik said:
will they ever have the guts to kill off any of the core ST kids- meaning Eleven, Mike, Will, Dustin, Lucas?...or will this end up being another Harry Potter where secondary characters die around them but the main core of Harry, Ron and Hermione survive?

I hope not. Barring a heroic sacrifice I can't imagine any of their death(s) being simultaneously dramatic enough to justify while also not making the show too dark to be enjoyable. I like the cast enough I don't want anyone to bite it, honestly, a lot of the fun of the show IS the cast.

Tuck · Jun 3, 2022

3rdman said:
Why do any of them have to die? The series itself was born as a love letter to early 80s adventure movies like The Goonies or ET. Do you think Chunk should have been killed off so that they can claim "anyone can die"? I just don't think its that type of series.

There is my stance as well. I'd be perfectly happy with everyone in the main cast making it through.

Kalik · Jun 3, 2022

Tavernade said:
I hope not. Barring a heroic sacrifice I can't imagine any of their death(s) being simultaneously dramatic enough to justify while also not making the show too dark to be enjoyable. I like the cast enough I don't want anyone to bite it, honestly, a lot of the fun of the show IS the cast.

but Season 5 is the final season...so either way you won't be seeing them anymore in these roles

onpoint · Jun 3, 2022

CrazyDude said:
Henry isn't just fascinated with Spiders, he worships them. He called them gods of our world. He even creates an alter for them in the attic and prays towards them. It makes more sense for him to find the MF and become convinced that it is a god than it is for him to create god.

Eh, I feel like he shaped the Upside Down into his vision, seeing as how it was seemingly formless and barren when he arrived and has become quite different since then. It also ties in with his whole schpeel about him and Eleven remaking the world in their vision.

Because of this I feel like he's sort of filling it in based on the psychic connections he's been able to make from there, explaining why some things are missing and others are not.

But who knows? Hopefully they answer these questions

AtmaPhoenix · Jun 3, 2022

Kalik said:
will they ever have the guts to kill off any of the core ST kids- meaning Eleven, Mike, Will, Dustin, Lucas?...or will this end up being another Harry Potter where secondary characters die around them but the main core of Harry, Ron and Hermione survive?

I think the absolute worst thing to come out of the current era of prestige television/entertainment is the apparently necessity of having major characters die at some point. This wasn't always a regular thing and using a character's death for character pathos/cheap ways to make an audience emotional/shock value needs to die out in popularity. You can make great television and tug at heartstrings and have stakes without killing characters off. Episode 4 of this season is a great example.

One of the many things I blame Joss Whedon for.

Soliloquy of a Dogge · Jun 3, 2022

oddjobs said:
Not disagreeing but a couple of things to consider:

1.) El's mom exhibited (some amount of) the same powers that El has so whatever she can do might not be fully reliant on being sired by Henry
2.) I don't know if he has an ability to control time - it could just be that he physically manipulated the clock in the scene we first saw it. Furthermore he has the same powers as Kali from season 2 => he can make anyone see/experience (or not) whatever he wants them to

Terry's psychokinetic abilities do throw an interesting wrench into the equation. At this point it's hard not to assume that latent abilities exist in more people than the show has let on but to what extent and how/why they do are questions the show hasn't given us a ton to go on.

You probably are right about the manifestation powers being more hallucinatory in nature instead of time manipulation though, yeah. The portals into the Upside Down being connected to distinct time periods and Eleven being able to draw on a memory she would have no way of conjuring have me still considering time shenanigans could be involved though.

Really hope we get to see more of Kali at some point in the future. You'd think that would be a given.

CrazyDude · Jun 3, 2022

If anyone d

Kalik said:
but Season 5 is the final season...so either way you won't be seeing them anymore in these roles

Which is why I don't think we'll see anyone major dying till next season.

Tavernade · Jun 3, 2022

Kalik said:
but Season 5 is the final season...so either way you won't be seeing them anymore in these roles

It's still retroactive, though, in how the series is viewed as a whole. If the series ends with some of them sacrificing themselves to stop the Mind Flayer once and for all or something, that's fine. I don't think the show can pull off killing one of them effectively otherwise without getting way too dark. The show is a horror show but it's also light and fast paced, I don't think it can slow down to properly process a non-finale-sacrifice death.

Also with IT as an early inspiration I'd imagine a time skip sequel is inevitable a decade or two down the line.

Kalik · Jun 3, 2022

AtmaPhoenix said:
I think the absolute worst thing to come out of the current era of prestige television/entertainment is the apparently necessity of having major characters die at some point. This wasn't always a regular thing and using a character's death for character pathos/cheap ways to make an audience emotional/shock value needs to die out in popularity. You can make great television and tug at heartstrings and have stakes without killing characters off. Episode 4 of this season is a great example.

One of the many things I blame Joss Whedon for.

on a show about creatures from an alternate dimension trying to invade Earth it makes no sense not to have at least 1 major character die in 5 seasons...they have no issues killing off secondary characters like Bob Newby or Barbera but to not have anyone major die undermines the seriousness of the situation...this is not 90210 where you can have everyone survive

Musubi · Jun 3, 2022

cognizant said:
Loved the season except for one thing:

the entire subplot in Russia just felt so pointless.. We learned nothing the entire time over there, no new info on the Upside Down, the monster, anything on the KGB side of things. They could have had Hopper escape in one episode if they had wanted to. The whole subplot just dragged on.

Anyway, loved everything else. Very surprised it took something like 5 or 6 episodes before someone made a reference to Nightmare on Elm Street.

Also, maybe because I grew up in the 80s but...I sincerely want the era's hair styles to come back lol.

While I do think you have somewhat of a point I don't think its entirely pointless. In fact I'd say Hopper's monologue where he reveals to Enzo his entire back story and unloads all the demons he's been carrying around is a very powerful moment. Fleshes out Hop's character a lot more.

Kalik · Jun 3, 2022

Tavernade said:
It's still retroactive, though, in how the series is viewed as a whole. If the series ends with some of them sacrificing themselves to stop the Mind Flayer once and for all or something, that's fine. I don't think the show can pull off killing one of them effectively otherwise without getting way too dark. The show is a horror show but it's also light and fast paced, I don't think it can slow down to properly process a non-finale-sacrifice death.

so you don't think showing teenagers getting their bones bent and eyes gouged out is dark enough?

Soliloquy of a Dogge · Jun 3, 2022

CrazyDude said:
Henry isn't just fascinated with Spiders, he worships them. He called them gods of our world. He even creates an alter for them in the attic and prays towards them. It makes more sense for him to find the MF and become convinced that it is a god than it is for him to create god.

It really depends on whether or not the Upside Down is created by him being banished or whether it already existed before he was banished IMO. When El sends him there, the reflection of Hawkins seems completely devoid of anything whatsoever.

Would lean towards your assumption if it's the latter but if it's the former, him creating these creatures would track with people who have the tendency to actualize their theological doctrines by reducing their beliefs to whatever they desire. Henry/Peter already had pretty dogmatic desires before El banished him and being able to use that dimension to play God himself makes a lot of sense to me as well honestly.

cognizant · Jun 3, 2022

Musubi said:
While I do think you have somewhat of a point I don't think its entirely pointless. In fact I'd say Hopper's monologue where he reveals to Enzo his entire back story and unloads all the demons he's been carrying around is a very powerful moment. Fleshes out Hop's character a lot more.

It's a nice moment, but it didn't feel particularly enlightening to me, we could infer all that anyway. They spent an entire season on a plan to rescue him, they could have accomplished this in half the time. I enjoyed parts of it for sure, but there's a lack of efficiency in the writing for that subplot. I know some people have had similar issues with other subplots, but I actually enjoyed all the rest and felt that every scene was constructed quite well (with much better dialogue this season too).

btw speaking of the Russia subplot, fuck Yuri man. Fuck that guy!

CrazyDude · Jun 3, 2022

onpoint said:
Eh, I feel like he shaped the Upside Down into his vision, seeing as how it was seemingly formless and barren when he arrived and has become quite different since then. It also ties in with his whole schpeel about him and Eleven remaking the world in their vision.

Because of this I feel like he's sort of filling it in based on the psychic connections he's been able to make from there, explaining why some things are missing and others are not.

But who knows? Hopefully they answer these questions

Except it isn't totally barren, the vines that are a part of the hive mind move back through the gate 001 got thrown into. Also don't forget that the mind flayer is also made out of black clouds.

AtmaPhoenix · Jun 3, 2022

Kalik said:
on a show about creatures from an alternate dimension trying to invade Earth it makes no sense not to have at least 1 major character die in 5 seasons...they have no issues killing off secondary characters like Bob Newby or Barbera but to not have anyone major die undermines the seriousness of the situation...this is not 90210 where you can have everyone survive

I liked Stranger Things because it was a thrilling, fantastical show about some middle school kids playing D&D and saving the world. I don't need to see them die to feel satisfied.

CorpseLight · Jun 3, 2022

Question about Eleven in this Season

I'm sorry if this has already been covered; but does anyone else get the feeling they are building Eleven up to be a religious or holy figure? All the people involved in hiding and protecting her all stare at her in reverence, its been said multiple times that they 'Believe in her" and even the guard that was kidnapped and tortured by the US government begs for them not to hurt her.

Which also leads to this question - was 1 an actual, tangible demon or monster? He clearly has incredibly strong powers even as a human. Was the Upside Down created from the anguish of his death? Or did it always exist and that is where he, and by extension all the kids, draw their powers from?

It's all really interesting and not at all where I expected this Season to go.

Arsene no Kiseki · Jun 3, 2022

Kalik said:
on a show about creatures from an alternate dimension trying to invade Earth it makes no sense not to have at least 1 major character die in 5 seasons...they have no issues killing off secondary characters like Bob Newby or Barbera but to not have anyone major die undermines the seriousness of the situation...this is not 90210 where you can have everyone survive

The main cast have been through this shit multiple times and know what they're doing. Of course secondary characters who are thrust into these situations with no experience are more likely to die lol

oddjobs · Jun 3, 2022

Ch3m61_ said:
I'm sorry if this has already been covered; but does anyone else get the feeling they are building Eleven up to be a religious or holy figure? All the people involved in hiding and protecting her all stare at her in reverence, its been said multiple times that they 'Believe in her" and even the guard that was kidnapped and tortured by the US government begs for them not to hurt her.

I don't see it like that. I think it's a combination of Brenner knowing what they're dealing with (and what happened to 001) + the knowledge of all the shit that happened in seasons 1-3. They see the prospect of what 001 could do as too dangerous to ignore (and El as the only one who has the necessary strength to stop him

Ch3m61_ said:
Which also leads to this question - was 1 an actual, tangible demon or monster? He clearly has incredibly strong powers even as a human. Was the Upside Down created from the anguish of his death? Or did it always exist and that is where he, and by extension all the kids, draw their powers from?

I don't think he was a demon or a monster, he just happened to be the first one to exhibit the powers (and I'd imagine we'll get to know WHY he got them soonish!) I think he and the others indeed get their powers from Upside down, perhaps due to the barrier between dimensions being thin around Hawkins or something to that effect.

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