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lunanto

Banned
Dec 1, 2017
7,648
I didn´t expect the ending of the season to be so emotional. Just wow. I spent a big part of the last episode with goosebumps... A lot of touching and well-performed scenes.

A great season all in all, I can´t wait to see what they have in store for us with Season 5.
 

MotiD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,560
I really wish Vecna didn't exist. As in, Henry didn't transform into that Halloween monster figure.
The actor playing them is so much more terrifying and captivating just playing himself.
 

sappyday

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,782
I really wish Vecna didn't exist. As in, Henry didn't transform into that Halloween monster figure.
The actor playing them is so much more terrifying and captivating just playing himself.
I wouldn't be surprised if he changes between both forms in the next season now that people know the actor that is playing him
 

Donepalace

Member
Mar 16, 2019
2,626
The karate thing was legit funny.

First it's established with dialogue that he learned to fight between seasons. Then it's revealed that he only fought against kids. Then it's double twisted that the he actually does know kung-fu karate, and we get a decentishly shot fight scene of him kicking ass.

It's a good gag.


He still doesn't know who he is.
Na it was silly stuff especially since they where in such a dangerous situation. Serious situations where always treated seriously in S1&2 it would be the equivalent of Joyce saying she practices karate in s1e1 then decided to use said karate on a demogorgan in the house when it appears it's ridiculous

Once you start injecting comedy into serious grave danger situations your risking the shows credibility. This type of stuff only started to appear in S3.

Murray is best used in normal more laid back scenes like in S2

Same goes for robin her comedic tone about the rabies while this is her very first time in the upside down ruins any sense of danger. When Nancy went into the upside down in S1 it was serious shit and she even had extreme fear when she returned to the Normal Hawkins
 
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kurahador

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,533
Na it was silly stuff especially since they where in such a dangerous situation. Serious situations where always treated seriously in S1&2 it would be the equivalent of Joyce saying she practices karate in s1e1 then decided to use said karate on a demogorgan in the house when it appears it's ridiculous

Once you start injecting comedy into serious grave danger situations your risking the shows credibility. This type of stuff only started to appear in S3.

Murray is best used in normal more laid back scenes like in S2
He went against Yuri who is equally ridicoulous and funny, not a serious threat like Demogorgon.
 

ElectricBlanketFire

What year is this?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,831
Na it was silly stuff especially since they where in such a dangerous situation. Serious situations where always treated seriously in S1&2 it would be the equivalent of Joyce saying she practices karate in s1e1 then decided to use said karate on a demogorgan in the house when it appears it's ridiculous

Once you start injecting comedy into serious grave danger situations your risking the shows credibility. This type of stuff only started to appear in S3.

Murray is best used in normal more laid back scenes like in S2

Same goes for robin her comedic tone about the rabies while this is first time in the upside down ruins any sense of danger when Nancy went into the upside down in S1 it was serious shit and she even had extreme fear when she returned to the Normal Hawkins
Hopper punched out a guard/scientist in the lab like Indiana Jones shoots the sword guy back in season one.

This season and the show in general is certainly not above criticism, but some of you are analyzing this like it's Citizen Kane.
 

Donepalace

Member
Mar 16, 2019
2,626
Hopper punched out a guard/scientist in the lab like Indiana Jones shoots the sword guy back in season one.

This season and the show in general is certainly not above criticism, but some of you are analyzing this like it's Citizen Kane.
Hardly the same the plane sequence was this big set piece that was all played for laughs like a giant SNL sketch
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,705
Na it was silly stuff especially since they where in such a dangerous situation. Serious situations where always treated seriously in S1&2 it would be the equivalent of Joyce saying she practices karate in s1e1 then decided to use said karate on a demogorgan in the house when it appears it's ridiculous

Once you start injecting comedy into serious grave danger situations your risking the shows credibility. This type of stuff only started to appear in S3.

Murray is best used in normal more laid back scenes like in S2

Same goes for robin her comedic tone about the rabies while this is her very first time in the upside down ruins any sense of danger. When Nancy went into the upside down in S1 it was serious shit and she even had extreme fear when she returned to the Normal Hawkins
Nah, it was funny
He went against Yuri who is equally ridicoulous and funny, not a serious threat like Demogorgon.
Are you saying that you did not take Yuri as a credible threat? How dare you
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,412
Today's nitpick: I wish Vecna said "Join us, [name]" rather than "Join me, [name]" to his victims to tie more into the hivemind spiel, just like the Mind Flayer used to speak in plural we as well. Would have added an appreciated layer of consistency like probably coindidental shit like the below:

FWhHDg1X0AYPRly
FWhHDg0XoAAD9ax
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
Today's nitpick: I wish Vecna said "Join us, [name]" rather than "Join me, [name]" to his victims to tie more into the hivemind spiel, just like the Mind Flayer used to speak in plural we as well. Would have added an appreciated layer of consistency like probably coindidental shit like the below:

FWhHDg1X0AYPRly
FWhHDg0XoAAD9ax

Wouldn't surprise me that they'll do more edits later to tighten up the retcons.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,904
I'm still trying to figure out how Hopper wound up in Russia when they blew up the gate laser under Starcourt Mall, and the US military was flooding into that base.

Murray and Joyce get out. Dr Owens was right by the gate - Hopper was on the floor out of sight?. Hopper is just laying on the ground on the other side o the railing next to the closed gate. Suddenly Russian's grab him?

Did he teleport through the gate to Russia?
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,530
Today's nitpick: I wish Vecna said "Join us, [name]" rather than "Join me, [name]" to his victims to tie more into the hivemind spiel, just like the Mind Flayer used to speak in plural we as well. Would have added an appreciated layer of consistency like probably coindidental shit like the below:

FWhHDg1X0AYPRly
FWhHDg0XoAAD9ax

I think what we're going to find is that the Flayer does have some form of consciousness of its own, it's not just an elemental force with no brain or will. Remember that Vecna cannot control everything simultaneously, and he can't even attack more than one person's mindscape at once due to the limitations of how his power works - he has to be plugged into the hive mind to assume direct control of it. It's probable that he was able to impose his will on the Flayer, but it still acted independently of him except for the moments when he was directly "piloting" it.

The way Ross says it relates to Vecna, Henry, "his journey", is kind of strange.

That statement is kind of weirdly worded, but what he was saying was that the rest of the reveals in Volume 2 would be specific to Henry, and the "why Negative Hawkins?" mystery would be cleared up later. Meaning it's probably not directly connected to Henry.
 

boxter432

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
9,222
Just got Covid shots at the Mall of America for my young kids and came out of the vaccine spot and Kate Bush was just blasting on the mall speakers. The mall technically isn't open yet so it's fairly empty so it was pretty eerie lol.
 

mantidor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,792
I mean it makes no sense, you're right, but you have to assume they just slipped away with him.

Yeah in my head canon he teleported through the gate because the alternative is just bad. Why would they slip away with him? They would be running after the military took the compound, why would they come back at all to this place, seriously. Also when he is being interrogated don't the Russians keep asking who do you work for? Did I made that up in my mind? One thing is Joyce an Murray missing his body and another is a huge US military army missing him.

Alexei said that they tried to open gates in Russia but were unsuccessful, I really thought he had gone through one of these failed gates that only worked one way, and it was the way the got hold of the dust particles and demo creatures. They could come out but not go back in.
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,756
I really wish Vecna didn't exist. As in, Henry didn't transform into that Halloween monster figure.
The actor playing them is so much more terrifying and captivating just playing himself.
Honestly I really didn't like the addition of a nemesis looking villain. I liked it when things were more abstract.

Also, I thought was stupid that the journalist girl sees the terrifying future from Vecna, which is supposed to be so awful and terrifying yet she just expo-dumps what she saw to her friends and moves on like she wasn't affected at all by it
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,643
Na it was silly stuff especially since they where in such a dangerous situation. Serious situations where always treated seriously in S1&2 it would be the equivalent of Joyce saying she practices karate in s1e1 then decided to use said karate on a demogorgan in the house when it appears it's ridiculous

Once you start injecting comedy into serious grave danger situations your risking the shows credibility. This type of stuff only started to appear in S3.

Murray is best used in normal more laid back scenes like in S2

Same goes for robin her comedic tone about the rabies while this is her very first time in the upside down ruins any sense of danger. When Nancy went into the upside down in S1 it was serious shit and she even had extreme fear when she returned to the Normal Hawkins

For some reason my brain forgot about the Karate fight and the plane crash. I think I was so annoyed at characters like Yuri that I forgot the whole season was tone whiplash. I think Stranger Things was strongest when the other world was unknowable rather than an alien world that this goofy ass villain psychic corrupted.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,530
Just got Covid shots at the Mall of America for my young kids and came out of the vaccine spot and Kate Bush was just blasting on the mall speakers. The mall technically isn't open yet so it's fairly empty so it was pretty eerie lol.

Oh fuck that happened to me last year. Abandoned malls as COVID vaccine dispensaries = weird shit. Especially since for me it was the mall I've known since I was a baby, and even worked at in high school. Seeing it completely abandoned in the middle of the day with the speakers still playing music for no one throughout the empty halls was haunting.

Honestly I really didn't like the addition of a nemesis looking villain. I liked it when things were more abstract.

Also, I thought was stupid that the journalist girl sees the terrifying future from Vecna, which is supposed to be so awful and terrifying yet she just expo-dumps what she saw to her friends and moves on like she wasn't affected at all by it

Let's be fair to Nancy, this is her fourth time facing the end of the world, so at this point it fucked with her for a few minutes and then hardened her into "ok time to murder this guy RIGHT NOW" mode.
 

bananab

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,854
I really wish Vecna didn't exist. As in, Henry didn't transform into that Halloween monster figure.
The actor playing them is so much more terrifying and captivating just playing himself.
I agree, I kept having to actively try to get into the idea of Vecna being scary-looking. I wound up doing it by imagining Swamp Thing from the 80s movie, which did scare me a bit as a child, but it definitely took me out of it a bit whenever he cropped up.
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,412
I think what we're going to find is that the Flayer does have some form of consciousness of its own, it's not just an elemental force with no brain or will. Remember that Vecna cannot control everything simultaneously, and he can't even attack more than one person's mindscape at once due to the limitations of how his power works - he has to be plugged into the hive mind to assume direct control of it. It's probable that he was able to impose his will on the Flayer, but it still acted independently of him except for the moments when he was directly "piloting" it.

Possibly. I'd even be up to Vecna being redeemed through power of love or some 80 shit, only for the hivemind to be like "Excuse me? We're evil in here", snapping him in half. Either way, it's a very minor thing even if ultimately it was still him then too.

Let's be fair to Nancy, this is her fourth time facing the end of the world, so at this point it fucked with her for a few minutes and then hardened her into "ok time to murder this guy RIGHT NOW" mode.

Yeah, Nancy probably is the most hardened of all the peeps when it comes to fucking with monsters lol. Girl has lived through some crazy shit. Remember the hospital stuff in S3? Might top my list of favorite sequences in the show.
 

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,722
So I don't know why I'm just thinking of this, but....how are Jonathan and Nancy still in school? Shouldn't they have graduated at the end of season 2 along with Billy and Steve?
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,530
Yeah, Nancy probably is the most hardened of all the peeps when it comes to fucking with monsters lol. Girl has lived through some crazy shit. Remember the hospital stuff in S3? Might top my list of favorite sequences in the show.

I love it. All the way back in S1 I was convinced Nancy was the sacrificial lamb teen false protagonist who existed to die early on to show how serious the Upside Down was, and then she survived the tree gate scene and I was like "huh...". Now she's basically kind of the secondary protagonist of the whole show. Natalia hasn't always been the best actress on the show, but when intense shit is happening, she always sells it.

So I don't know why I'm just thinking of this, but....how are Jonathan and Nancy still in school? Shouldn't they have graduated at the end of season 2 along with Billy and Steve?

Steve and Billy are a year older than Nancy and Jonathan. Nancy applied to Emerson (my almost-alma mater!) via early acceptance and got in, but hasn't graduated yet.
 

ascii42

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,798
So I don't know why I'm just thinking of this, but....how are Jonathan and Nancy still in school? Shouldn't they have graduated at the end of season 2 along with Billy and Steve?
No, Steve's a year ahead of Nancy and Jonathan. I remember this being one of the points of discussion when they were thinking about their future back when Steve and Nancy were dating.
 

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,722
Steve and Billy are a year older than Nancy and Jonathan. Nancy applied to Emerson (my almost-alma mater!) via early acceptance and got in, but hasn't graduated yet.
No, Steve's a year ahead of Nancy and Jonathan. I remember this being one of the points of discussion when they were thinking about their future back when Steve and Nancy were dating.

So they should have graduated at the end of season 3 right? Episode 1 of season 4 showed both of them still in school, which means they would have been freshman back in season 1, which definitely wasn't the case.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,530
So they should have graduated at the end of season 3 right? Episode 1 of season 4 showed both of them still in school, which means they would have been freshman back in season 1, which definitely wasn't the case.

It hasn't been a full four years since season 1. I think it's been like two and a half to three years max. So Nancy was a sophomore and Steve was a junior in S1, then Nancy was a junior and Steve was a senior in S2 (when Steve was talking about putting off college for a year so Nancy could catch up to him). Steve had graduated (pretty recently, most likely, given the July time frame) by the time S3 rolled around.

Meanwhile, S4 takes place in the spring of Nancy's last semester before graduation. She's already been accepted to college via early admission, whereas Jonathan is still trying to get an acceptance letter at all.
 

CrazyDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,727
So they should have graduated at the end of season 3 right? Episode 1 of season 4 showed both of them still in school, which means they would have been freshman back in season 1, which definitely wasn't the case.
Jonathan and Nancy were sophomores in s1, she says as much in the UD when talking about it being frozen in 83.

83-84 Sophomore (Season 1 was November 83)
84-85 Juniors (Season 3 was in July 85)
85-86 Seniors
It is currently Match of 86, so they will graduate in a couple months.
 

Donepalace

Member
Mar 16, 2019
2,626
For some reason my brain forgot about the Karate fight and the plane crash. I think I was so annoyed at characters like Yuri that I forgot the whole season was tone whiplash. I think Stranger Things was strongest when the other world was unknowable rather than an alien world that this goofy ass villain psychic corrupted.
What makes it not too bad is the 4 different plotlines running through each episode so it's easy to break away from it but they are scenes I will be forwarding when rewatching.

I think after 4 seasons it's time to move into information time territory because other wise it's just the same thing again I think Vecna is a really great villain for the show imo he's treated serious when he's on screen
 

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,646
I really enjoyed this season, and I really hope they manage to stick the landing with season 5. Get rid of the cliffhanger, and give a resolution for Max and this would have been an excellent series finale as it is.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
I'm really curious if the Duffers can manage to make a new show that is on par with this one without following the exact same beats. I'm re-watching the series right now, and the beats are almost ALWAYS the same, like they have been essentially retelling the same story again and again each season. Even S1 feels very similar to S4.

I'm fine with the rethreading in ST, but they need to avoid following this cookie-cutter structure for spinoffs or other shows or the trick will be really obvious.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,530
I'm really curious if the Duffers can manage to make a new show that is on par with this one without following the exact same beats. I'm re-watching the series right now, and the beats are almost ALWAYS the same, like they have been essentially retelling the same story again and again each season. Even S1 feels very similar to S4.

I'm fine with the rethreading in ST, but they need to avoid following this cookie-cutter structure for spinoffs or other shows or the trick will be really obvious.

The Talisman is probably going to feel superficially similar to Stranger Things, in that it is another story that involves parallel worlds, and people will probably grumble a little about that at first before the rules of that book's universe become clearer and the distinctions between it and the Upside Down crystallize. Once people understand how that world works they'll probably be less grumpy about the two-world conceit being used again.

As for the spinoff, I think it's abundantly clear that whatever it is, it won't just be a "sequel series" to this show with a new group of kids going through similar adventures. I think the "X-Files in the Stranger Things universe" conceit that's been bandied about may stand a decently strong chance of being what they go with, especially since the Duffers are roughly the same age as me so the X-Files would be another point of distinct nostalgia they could mine that takes place in a new time period but would necessitate different episode and story arc structures, as well as a different kind of core cast.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
The Talisman is probably going to feel superficially similar to Stranger Things, in that it is another story that involves parallel worlds, and people will probably grumble a little about that at first before the rules of that book's universe become clearer and the distinctions between it and the Upside Down crystallize. Once people understand how that world works they'll probably be less grumpy about the two-world conceit being used again.

As for the spinoff, I think it's abundantly clear that whatever it is, it won't just be a "sequel series" to this show with a new group of kids going through similar adventures. I think the "X-Files in the Stranger Things universe" conceit that's been bandied about may stand a decently strong chance of being what they go with, especially since the Duffers are roughly the same age as me so the X-Files would be another point of distinct nostalgia they could mine that takes place in a new time period but would necessitate different episode and story arc structures, as well as a different kind of core cast.

I'm not worried about similarities in settings, tone, character types, etc. It's really the beats, the structure. The different seasons of ST are way too similar on that end, it would take me too long to list how much. A lot of that isn't entirely an ST issue, they are using classic story-telling structure for a genre that was thoroughly exploited before and which they are openly echoing to, so it's not surprising, but they should be aware of that enough to avoid making things too repetitive. The way S1 parallels S4, where the protags first have a mystery case on hand and some interpersonal drama, which they eventually overcome and then arm up to fight the baddies on multiple fronts at once, it's a bit much, and is very likely to be repeated in S5. It's much less superficial than that actually, I'm just skipping the details. They have been playing it very safe.

At least it hasn't prevented me from enjoying the show, but if they keep doing this in other shows it will get old and it will break through and likely ruin the experience for those familiar with ST.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,530
I'm not worried about similarities in settings, tone, character types, etc. It's really the beats, the structure. The different seasons of ST are way too similar on that end, it would take me too long to list how much. A lot of that isn't entirely an ST issue, they are using classic story-telling structure for a genre that was thoroughly exploited before and which they are openly echoing to, so it's not surprising, but they should be aware of that enough to avoid making things too repetitive. The way S1 parallels S4, where the protags first have a mystery case on hand and some interpersonal drama, which they eventually overcome and then arm up to fight the baddies on multiple fronts at once, it's a bit much, and is very likely to be repeated in S5. It's much less superficial than that actually, I'm just skipping the details. They have been playing it very safe. At least it hasn't prevented me from enjoying the show, but if they keep doing this in other shows it will get old and it will break through and ruin the experience for those familiar with ST.

Well, they aren't writing the spinoff, and The Talisman's story is structurally very different from ST. I don't really think you're going to need to worry about that.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
So more and more, I think the Upside Down is Will's mindspace. The red place with lightning bolts is Henry's, so Henry literally landed in his own mindspace to begin with when he got through the portal, although there might be an indication that Henry's mindspace was infected with something before he was cast into it, maybe a manifestation of his anger or some such, hence why the mindflayer and demogorgons and tentacles were there already.

So Will ended up in his own mindspace as well, which is why it looks like Hawkins frozen in time on that day, and Vecna then infected it somehow, probably for the same reason Henry's own mind was infected by the mindflayer to begin with.

This might explain the darkness El ends up in when she is in sensory-deprivation mode; she hasn't created any world in her own mind so it's just dark and empty.

It can also explain why he puts his victims in a sensory-deprivation mode (floating, broken limbs and spine so they feel nothing, blind); it might be Vecna's way of casting them into their own mindspace, trapped, and then he might infect those as well. We might see Max's mindspace in S5?

I wonder if they'll retcon that Will actually fell off a cliff before he disappeared.

BTW, in S1, Hopper has a flashback of his daughter having some sort of panic attack. I always wondered if that was going to come back into play somehow.

Well, they aren't writing the spinoff, and The Talisman's story is structurally very different from ST. I don't really think you're going to need to worry about that.

Hopefully, I might read it, will be my first Stephen King story, I've liked some of the movies adapted from his books but have never been interested in reading his work for some reason.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,530
So more and more, I think the Upside Down is Will's mindspace. The red place with lightning bolts is Henry's, so Henry literally landed in his own mindspace to begin with when he got through the portal, although there might be an indication that Henry's mindspace was infected with something before he was cast into it, maybe a manifestation of his anger or some such, hence why the mindflayer and demogorgons and tentacles were there already.

Remember, when he first landed in the Upside Down, it was gold with yellow lightning. The red lightning came later. Kinda like Ganon getting dumped into the Golden Land and turning it into the Dark World.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
Remember, when he first landed in the Upside Down, it was gold with yellow lightning. The red lightning came later. Kinda like Ganon getting dumped into the Golden Land and turning it into the Dark World.

How can it be the Upside Down? Why is Henry's home not all broken up when the gang goes there in the UD, yet Vecna is somewhere where his home is also present and all broken up?

The UD does not look much like where Henry landed, it has red lightning bolts and that's it, but so does Hawkins now. Yet where he landed looks exactly like where his broken home is and Max and co are trapped. It really looks like there are three worlds, and the one he landed in is not the UD but a very close match to his mindspace, so probably the same. Also the Ross Duffer literally said "What was that where Henry was when he was found? The Mindflayer, where is that?", that this is unknown and to be revealed in S5.

ROSS DUFFER: The big reveals that are coming in Season 5 are really about the Upside Down itself, which we only start to hint at. There is that moment where we realize in episode seven this year that it's frozen in time. That is something that, obviously, we do a couple more big reveals in Volume 2, but it's all related to Vecna, Henry, and his journey. But what we haven't really discussed is exactly what the Upside Down is. What was that where Henry was when he was found? The Mindflayer, where is that? Those are the last big reveals coming in Season 5.

Also strange wording "What was that where Henry was when he was found?"

Really sounds like the mindflayer "found Henry".
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,530
How can it be the Upside Down? Why is Henry's home not all broken up when the gang goes there in the UD, yet Vecna is somewhere where his home is also present and all broken up?

The UD does not look much like where Henry landed, it has red lightning bolts and that's it, but so does Hawkins now. Yet where he landed looks exactly like where his broken home is and Max and co are trapped. It really looks like there are three worlds, and the one he landed in is not the UD but a very close match to his mindspace, so probably the same. Also the Ross Duffer literally said "What was that where Henry was when he was found? The Mindflayer, where is that?", that this is unknown and to be revealed in S5.

The red, ruined Creel House is a different plane than the Upside Down. The Red House is probably a manifestation of Henry's portion of the Astral Plane, where he takes people in order to consume them.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
The red, ruined Creel House is a different plane than the Upside Down. The Red House is probably a manifestation of Henry's portion of the Astral Plane, where he takes people in order to consume them.

Right, it's his "mindspace". The thing is called the mindflayer, so unsurprising. And it was infected with tentacles when Henry got there. And it looks identical to where Henry landed to begin with, not like the UD, so Henry landed in his own mindspace, where the mindflayer found him.

So I say the Upside Down is Will's mindspace, which Vecna or the mindflayer then infected.