It gave me Dimitri and Hopper was pretty cool as the knowing badass like in that dinner scene and using the fire on the monster, I liked it enough
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Stranger Things S4 | OT | Every ending has a beginning (Open spoilers)
- Thread starter Conditional-Pancakes
- Start date
- Entertainment Video/Streaming OT
Ok so I have a theory about why the UD is "stuck in 83", sort of:
Kind of far fetched, but other than a big timeline reset I see no other explanation for it.
Vecna was talking about how he wants to reshape the world to his liking. It could be that it being stuck in 83 is an unconscious "footprint" left by Will.
So I could see El and co realizing that the UD doesn't have to be as it is, and Will or El ultimately reshaping it into a sort of paradise for all the people who died as a result of the paranormal activities.
Ironic for the "Hellfire Club".
So I could see El and co realizing that the UD doesn't have to be as it is, and Will or El ultimately reshaping it into a sort of paradise for all the people who died as a result of the paranormal activities.
Ironic for the "Hellfire Club".
Kind of far fetched, but other than a big timeline reset I see no other explanation for it.
Agreed. I just decided to check out this season for the hell of it when I saw Jamie Bowers in it. Everytime the episodes would cut to this my eyes couldn't roll farther into my head if they tried.
Can someone screen grab the vision that Venca put into Nancy's head when he has her? Is there any visual that corresponds to her saying she saw an enormous creature with a giant gaping mouth?
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I liked it too.
I really like Hopper, I care about him getting free. And Murray makes me laugh. I think Enzo is very fun too. But above all, I think Joyce is just the best.
Nope. We didn't see a lot of what Nancy actually saw. Most of what we got to see on screen was glimpses of the final gate opening and tearing Hawkins apart.
I wonder if the final season will explore the source of Henry and Eleven's powers (in addition to all the children) is somehow connected to the upside-down. Like the upside-down has always existed in parallel with the normal world since the dawn of time is my theory. The astral and telekinetic powers in addition to other powers other children might have had derives from how strong a connection to the upside-down that particular person has. Henry and Eleven would obviously have the strongest connection to the upside-down if my theory is correct given Eleven and Henry can breakdown the boundary between the two dimensions.
Interestingly, Will can sense Vecna so I wonder if that is a clue that Will is also special like Eleven (albeit in a very minor way) or if it is a function of the time he spent in the upside-down in season 1?
I'm going to run with this theory because not only does it make sense from a story perspective and gives a satisfying explanation for where Eleven's power comes from, but it also opens up the possibility for the Stranger Things universe to expand since the implication is an Eleven or Henry could have existed during every era.
Interestingly, Will can sense Vecna so I wonder if that is a clue that Will is also special like Eleven (albeit in a very minor way) or if it is a function of the time he spent in the upside-down in season 1?
I'm going to run with this theory because not only does it make sense from a story perspective and gives a satisfying explanation for where Eleven's power comes from, but it also opens up the possibility for the Stranger Things universe to expand since the implication is an Eleven or Henry could have existed during every era.
I 100% agree with this, there's no way the powers are not connected to the upside-down. They're just too interconnected to be separate
Errrr can't be a coincidence, right? With all the trauma Will has been through I can see him having a sort of villain-arc next season.
Will already had a villain arc in season 2, it would be really shitty to put him through all of this only to regress him back to season 2.
I think so because
the only reason the UD is taking over the real-world is due to Henry's original connection to the paranormal, which led to everything else happening. So I really think that ultimately that "thing" is behind it all. The fact that they showed it had creatures living in it when Henry got there implies it's not just some kind of mindspace-world, it's really some dimension or world that existed before Henry.
He was just possessed though. I agree it would be shitty, but with what happened with Max this season I can see them doing this. Will suffering has also been a pretty consistent theme throughout the show lol
Well it just sets up Henry as being as innocent as Will ultimately, he was just a kid who didn't fit in.
That being said, I believe the Duffers' original plot was to make Will's feelings making him not "fit in" (Joyce says people say he's gay in S1E1 and the pre-filming bible said something similar) lead to him being used by the evil-power to turn him into a villain, and that they realized this would come off as problematic/tropey so they rebooted that plot with Henry instead and removed that element from him. A LOT of S4 is a big rethread of previous seasons.
Why would this mean he might go baddie? He's just drawing what he saw in the upside down
Keep in mind though, Will is the one who flat-out said "we need to kill him" - I don't think there's any setup for him actually turning evil. He's all in on stopping Vecna.
Could easily be explained by Will seeing visions and drawing them because he was linked to Vecna. Drawing the mindflayer doesn't automatically mean you get a villain arc.
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Yeah, Henry was just a (psychopath, murderous) kid who didn't fit in. Just like Will!
It's nothing like Will.
Seriously. Henry was clearly a budding monster already. Will's just a poor gay kid who hasn't met anybody outside of his social circle. Let's not act like "fitting in" is the problem here - none of the leads except Steve and Nancy conventionally "fit in".
I didn't want to be the one to say it, but yeeeeeep. Was thinking the same thing. It's crazy how night and day these two shows are. The direction, the pacing and editing, the character moments, the action sequences, all of it is so really masterfully done in Stranger Things. Why can't we get a Star Wars show with this level of quality? 😭
Why was he like that? He was already in contact with the paranormal when they moved to Hawkins, it's why the dad brought them there, we don't know what happened with him beforehand.
Yeah this is true. I just think there might be more of a link between Vecna and Will that could be explored in the next season (not necessarily Will being a villain).
It doesn't really mean much. "Being in contact with the paranormal" and "not fitting in" doesn't make someone into a psychopath and a murderer. Henry was a bad person, the Upside Down only magnified that by giving him an express outlet for that misanthropy.
We even have counter-examples inside the show itself: Eleven and Will are both "weird" people who have had connections to the Upside Down and neither of them became serial killer monsters who think all life on Earth deserves to die. Henry is just a monster through and through.
Henry had issues due to his paranormal connection and doctors/adults failed to step in, he ended up alone with no friends unlike El and Will.
Heck, El would have likely ended up no differently without her friends.
I think this will be a plot point before the show is over. Killing Vecna != killing Henry.
Also, how stupid was that speech of Eleven blaming Dr. Brenner for turning Vecna into the monster he is.
Vecna literally killed his baby sister and mom and was about to kill his dad when he was like 10 years old.
How da fuck did Brenner turned him into a monster, he was already a fucking psycho. If anything, Brenner stopped him for a while.
And lastly, Eddies death was just so unnecessary... no really, it's like they rewrote the script to have him killed. It's like they needed to kill someone to make the stakes feel more real, but it doesnt work like that.
And, obviously again, they kill the new character, just like the rest of the other seasons. I dont care too much for Eddie, I had to fast forward his first scene in the school cafetaria cuz It was too cringy, altough all his scenes with Chrissy were fine, but he should've lived.
I'm not in favor of killing an OG/main character just for the sake of it, but when you do the whole "add a new character, kill that character" season after season, and you fake out a death when it's someone that actually matters, it's just annoying.
Vecna literally killed his baby sister and mom and was about to kill his dad when he was like 10 years old.
How da fuck did Brenner turned him into a monster, he was already a fucking psycho. If anything, Brenner stopped him for a while.
And lastly, Eddies death was just so unnecessary... no really, it's like they rewrote the script to have him killed. It's like they needed to kill someone to make the stakes feel more real, but it doesnt work like that.
And, obviously again, they kill the new character, just like the rest of the other seasons. I dont care too much for Eddie, I had to fast forward his first scene in the school cafetaria cuz It was too cringy, altough all his scenes with Chrissy were fine, but he should've lived.
I'm not in favor of killing an OG/main character just for the sake of it, but when you do the whole "add a new character, kill that character" season after season, and you fake out a death when it's someone that actually matters, it's just annoying.
This last two episodes, with terrible pacing, and baffling decisions, plus some really dumb dialogue, soured the whole thing for me.
I put S4 at the same level of S2 now, but gun to the head, I would still watch S2 over S4, just because of how long and unnecessary this season feels.
1. Season 1
2. Season 3
3. Season 2/4
He had no friends because he was a psychopath. It's pretty clear from his monologue that Henry sees literally no value in human life and didn't WANT friends.
This is kind of the lamest thing about Vecna, tbh. Henry is just a sociopath, but like...a hollywood sociopath. "HuMaNiTy iS A NeSt oF FlAwEd sInNeRs, BuT I AlOnE Am tHe aPeX PrEdAtOr aBoVe tHeM Mwahahaha". It's a character trope we've seen a million times by now, and that's the real thing that bugs me about him being behind the mindflayer, since it turns it from an eldritch horror to a puppet driven by badly written cliche.
Also that fucking Jock...
Getting fucking MELTED by the crack in the earth. Holy shit. I dunno how I feel about Max being brought back to life.. I guess it gives 11 more of a reason to destroy Vecna to "free her mind" from his grasps..but..I generally hate when characters die and get brought back to life through the power of friendship or love or the force. But maybe it can a well deserved resurrection? I was absolutely shocked when Max's first arm broke..and then the other ones. A part of me kinda wishes she didn't come back to life. It really raised the stakes more. RIP Eddie. The best character.
I kinda saw it as the Mindflayer lending itself to Henry, creating Vecna. I think they both have a semblance of control, but I still feel like Mindflayer is the real "mastermind" so to speak.
I can't believe I am reading slander about Vecna.
I thought the Vecna reveal, build up and backstory was one of the best villain introductions ever presented in a television series. The callbacks to movie villains of the 80s in Vecna's design and modus operandi is also such a great thematic fit as well.
I thought the Vecna reveal, build up and backstory was one of the best villain introductions ever presented in a television series. The callbacks to movie villains of the 80s in Vecna's design and modus operandi is also such a great thematic fit as well.
Agreed. He's completely in line with the type of show Stranger Things is trying to be. Cheesy, over-the-top mustache-twirling villainy is EXACTLY what I wanted from this show.
In regards to...
Will and his sexual preference and gender identity. They live as a burgeoning teenager in 1986.
Robin puts it best in her first appearance this season, (parahrapse) "You ask out a girl out and get rejected you move on. I ask the wrong girl out and I'm the town pariah."
Will is living in era that doesn't accept him at all (assume he is a queer person).
Hell I grew up in this era and couldn't admit to myself who I was until 10 years ago. And even then I had to discover more that I was repressing 5 years ago. And that is including my first crush being my best male friend (which I usually present as) and my father calling us "Butt Buddies"
Will doesn't need to come out. It would be absolutely dangerous for him to do so in the 1980s.
I'd rather they come out on their own terms in the epilogue.
Robin puts it best in her first appearance this season, (parahrapse) "You ask out a girl out and get rejected you move on. I ask the wrong girl out and I'm the town pariah."
Will is living in era that doesn't accept him at all (assume he is a queer person).
Hell I grew up in this era and couldn't admit to myself who I was until 10 years ago. And even then I had to discover more that I was repressing 5 years ago. And that is including my first crush being my best male friend (which I usually present as) and my father calling us "Butt Buddies"
Will doesn't need to come out. It would be absolutely dangerous for him to do so in the 1980s.
I'd rather they come out on their own terms in the epilogue.
I think it would be fun if
I think that Will senses things because he still residually connected to the hive mind.
The only one I can see coming out to is probably his brother or Robin.
Ehhhhh...
He didn't even get a chance to finish her off. Her neck didn't break, nor did her eyes explode. People come back from having all their limbs broken all the time.
Finished Ep8. I thought it was one of the weakest episodes in the whole season.
The contrivance of everyone just happening to be at the gun shop at the same time, the Brenner death ending like a wet fart, it conveniently taking the military 20 minutes to walk back up the stairs so 11 can take down the helicopter, embrace her friends, and say goodbye to Brenner, and still have time to escape, give me a break. Hopefully the last episode is better. The Russia stuff also continues to be lame as hell
Ah ok that's what I thought, but after she said what she saw I was like, wait did they stick some blink-and-you-miss-it stuff in there? But I didn't want to stop and go back to check haha thanks!
There's not really much here beyond
• Henry like spiders
• Draws a giant spider
• Gets sucks into the Upside Down where he meets a giant cloud monster
• Makes the cloud monster take the form of his childhood drawing of a giant spider
• Cloud monster possesses Will, an artistic child
• Will draws what he saw - a cloud monster resembling a giant spider
If people go down that path expecting anything else from it I think they'll end up pretty disappointed
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I think it's pretty obvious he did more than snap her limbs considering she was also blinded with blood pouring out of her eyes. Having your limbs broken by external force and being psychically folded seem like two very different injuries
Done with E8. Watching E9 tonight. Overall, extremely satisfied but with one complaint.
Can we ditch Yuri and get the heroes back stateside again? I enjoy the Soviet Union / Cold War vibes but we've got to deal with ANOTHER Yuri situation?
Can we ditch Yuri and get the heroes back stateside again? I enjoy the Soviet Union / Cold War vibes but we've got to deal with ANOTHER Yuri situation?
I wonder if we got a big clue as to why the Upside Down is the way it is. 🤔
So we saw how Henry was able to shape the shadow into his spider-like fantasy that he drew earlier. It sorta thematically links the shape of the Upside Down with a person's inner thoughts, dreams, fantasies, or however you want to define it. We also know that Henry has to power to go inside people's minds and create a physical space for himself to attack.
So in Season 1, Vecna reaches out and "touches" Will and brings him into the Upside Down, thereby reaching into his consciousness, which shapes the Upside Down into the 1983 Hawkins that it gets frozen by. Vecna can shape the shadow into the Mind Flayer but when he reaches out and brings someone into the Upside Down, it brings in those memories and fantasies. You could apply that argument as to why the Demogorgon is the way it is, that the D&D campaign got applied to the world of the Upside Down. Then afterward, of course, Will got imprinted by Vecna and continued sensing the Mind Flayer (hence his drawing later in response).
Similarly, we see how when Eleven touches the Upside Down how the gate opens, etc.
I dunno, with all the ways characters reach out between the worlds and significantly shaping them, I feel like it's got to be something psychically like that directly linking Will and the frozen Hawkins world.
So in Season 1, Vecna reaches out and "touches" Will and brings him into the Upside Down, thereby reaching into his consciousness, which shapes the Upside Down into the 1983 Hawkins that it gets frozen by. Vecna can shape the shadow into the Mind Flayer but when he reaches out and brings someone into the Upside Down, it brings in those memories and fantasies. You could apply that argument as to why the Demogorgon is the way it is, that the D&D campaign got applied to the world of the Upside Down. Then afterward, of course, Will got imprinted by Vecna and continued sensing the Mind Flayer (hence his drawing later in response).
Similarly, we see how when Eleven touches the Upside Down how the gate opens, etc.
I dunno, with all the ways characters reach out between the worlds and significantly shaping them, I feel like it's got to be something psychically like that directly linking Will and the frozen Hawkins world.
Right.
My point, though, is that we know what Vecna finishing someone off looks like, and she definitively did not get that far before Eleven stopped him.
He didn't, but his method was always overkill anyway because he was a sick motherfucker.
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I get the feeling. But considering what the show has done in previous seasons, and seeing how Vecna really is a blend of so many classic horror villains, I think it's a very conscious decision from the writers. Which works well for Stranger Things, in my opinion.
But I will agree that the Mind Flayer ending up not being the big eldritch horror entity it appeared to be in previous seasons is a bit of a let down, mostly because I love the eldritch horror genre. But that reveal about Vecna being behind all of it is working for me, it makes sense. So I'm OK with it. And besides, the Duffers said there will be more reveals about the nature of the Upside Down in season 5, so who knows what comes next.
"Did they really just make Eddie run out and kill himself off because they couldn't figure out how to absolve him of the murders and bring him back into town? Like why did he run out there, it felt so forced. Also MASTER OF PUPPETS \m/"[/SPOILER]
I really liked this season though, I can't get enough stranger things, I dunno if its the nostalgia vibes or what, but this is just my jam.
I really liked this season though, I can't get enough stranger things, I dunno if its the nostalgia vibes or what, but this is just my jam.
He loved Dusty that much. That's how I saw it. Who knows what would have happened if all the bats would have invaded the trailer
The thing about Vecna's motivation is ST isn't really a show with villains who have depth, it's an issue I predicted would become apparent now that we're dealing with a person. It's part of the reason I hope we go back to eldritch abominations that just wanna consume everything next season. At least when the MF monologued through Billy you could tell it wasn't human and I feel it's easier to accept an inhuman monstrosity that just wants to fuck shit up
