• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Stranger Things S4 | OT | Every ending has a beginning (Open spoilers)

Reader mode
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,433
Demon Lizardman said:
I feel like in the season finale, 11 kills Vecna/Henry/01 and then absorbs his powers. Military comes in and tries to kill her but end up killing Mike instead because he shoves her out of the way or something. 11 goes crazy and transforms into a monster which leads into the final season. OR maybe Mike lives and 11 still becomes evil, I feel like that's just going to happen.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I do think a villain turn makes sense for El but I don't think the spirit of the show would allow her to remain a villain for an extended period of time. If she's going to go bad, it's going to be a relatively contained affair, I just can't see her being the big bad for S5.
 
Mariolee

Mariolee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,305
I'm rewatching the first season w/ my gf and totally forgot that El snaps someone's neck and that kinda threw me for a second lol also wondering how much they thought about One/Vecna when making the season.
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,433
Finished rewatching season 2 last night. It's kind of funny how you can pinpoint pretty much the exact moment (2-2) where Mike's character starts to decay into being a selfish brat and never really recovers. He seriously treats Max like shit for the entire season.

Also I think my brain tried to protect me from Episode 2-7 - as soon as the episode started, I passed out. Woke up ten minutes into 2-8.

Mariolee said:
I'm rewatching the first season w/ my gf and totally forgot that El snaps someone's neck and that kinda threw me for a second lol also wondering how much they thought about One/Vecna when making the season.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Probably fairly little. The series outline was created during the break in filming between S1 and S2 - the original outline S1 is based on only covered things up to the end of S1, since they weren't sure if they were going to get renewed. But I'm sure 001's actions in the lab are a deliberate callback to El killing that lady in S1.
 
CrazyDude

CrazyDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,727
PlanetSmasher said:
Finished rewatching season 2 last night. It's kind of funny how you can pinpoint pretty much the exact moment (2-2) where Mike's character starts to decay into being a selfish brat and never really recovers. He seriously treats Max like shit for the entire season.

Also I think my brain tried to protect me from Episode 2-7 - as soon as the episode started, I passed out. Woke up ten minutes into 2-8.



Probably fairly little. The series outline was created during the break in filming between S1 and S2 - the original outline S1 is based on only covered things up to the end of S1, since they weren't sure if they were going to get renewed. But I'm sure 001's actions in the lab are a deliberate callback to El killing that lady in S1.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They came up with the UD origins and mythology in the middle of season 1 though.
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,433
CrazyDude said:
They came up with the UD origins and mythology in the middle of season 1 though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Right, I just don't exactly think that they planned ahead that far to even have plotted out 001's specific methods of killing people in one specific scene that he then proceeds to never use again because he finds a much gorier method after that.

El snapping someone's neck with telekinesis is just a very effective visual indicator of "this lady is very dead", I don't think it was deliberate foreshadowing of ep 4-7.
 
NookSports

NookSports

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,208
PlanetSmasher said:
I do think a villain turn makes sense for El but I don't think the spirit of the show would allow her to remain a villain for an extended period of time. If she's going to go bad, it's going to be a relatively contained affair, I just can't see her being the big bad for S5.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It would feel so bad for El to basically be a flashback machine for an entire season, only to become a villain right away. I don't think the writers hate her that much, she's not Will
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,433
NookSports said:
It would feel so bad for El to basically be a flashback machine for an entire season, only to become a villain right away. I don't think the writers hate her that much, she's not Will
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yeah, having her be the villain for the final season would just be like "hey, broken people - this is the best you can ever hope for - becoming a villain and dying, maybe with a heroic turn and sacrifice at the end!"

But having Vecna take control of El and her powers for an episode to fuck with everybody would be pretty satisfying as long as it's resolved that episode.

Conditional-Pancakes said:
Let me repost that because I think it's funny, lol!

Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


Seriously, virtually every character interaction Mike has in S2, except for the ones he has with Will and El, winds up being extremely antagonistic. He's a brat to Lucas, Dustin, Max, Steve, Hopper, and Nancy. Dude's a bad friend. We should've seen him being a terrible boyfriend coming a mile away.
 
OP
OP
Conditional-Pancakes

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,823
the wilderness
Great interview with Sadie Sink!

variety.com

‘Stranger Things’ Star Sadie Sink Shares the Vulnerable Way She Tapped Into Max’s Headspace in Season 4, What’s in the Letters

Sadie Sink details the personal experiences she brought to Max in 'Stranger Things' Season 4.
variety.com variety.com

Sadie Sink's Max really goes through it in Season 4 of "Stranger Things." After losing her brother, Billy (Dacre Montgomery), in the finale of Season 3, the newest season starts with her being torn apart by guilt about what happened.

"She's just asking herself all of these questions, and putting the blame on herself," Sink tells Variety. "It's not necessarily because she's mourning the loss of their relationship, but more just convincing herself that, somehow, she's to blame for all the awful things that happen in her life — and the domino effect that Billy's death had on her family and everyone around her."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"Dear Billy" is such an emotional episode and so well done on your end. But Billy wasn't a great guy — he was very problematic. Do you think she has fully forgiven him?

It's tricky, because he caused the most pain in her life for a really long time. And they didn't have a brother-sister connection, or any solid relationship between the two of them. I think what's really haunting her is the fact that she thinks that it was somehow her fault — that maybe she had thought before, "I just want him to go away." So for him to actually leave, and for her to do nothing while she's watching him die, she's just asking herself all of these questions and putting the blame on herself.

She didn't have an outlet, and she didn't have anyone to tell her that it's not her fault. No one was there, and no one quite understands it. So it's a really lonely, lonely battle that she's fighting.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Maple

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,719
The Max / Vecna scene at the end of episode 4 is one of the best scenes I have ever watched in a TV show or movie. Just incredible stuff. I've watched it 30+ times at this point and yet it still resonates with me so much. Everything about the scene is immaculately crafted.

Also, here's a new letter from Kate Bush -

9isd6fqpyr691.jpg
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,433
Conditional-Pancakes said:
Great interview with Sadie Sink!

variety.com

‘Stranger Things’ Star Sadie Sink Shares the Vulnerable Way She Tapped Into Max’s Headspace in Season 4, What’s in the Letters

Sadie Sink details the personal experiences she brought to Max in 'Stranger Things' Season 4.
variety.com variety.com
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This is pretty much the read I got on her character - she had literally nobody to talk to who could understand even a fragment of what she went through, and Eleven leaving at that exact moment was kind of the perfect storm for dragging her into a self-made abyss of "what if"s and "was it my fault"s that she had no way of clawing out of on her own. She had to get herself to the point where she COULD confront those feelings head-on (ironically, Vecna manifesting as not-Billy probably helped with this, albeit unintentionally) so that she could open herself back up to her friends and let them give her the boost necessary to power her run out of the abyss.

It was never about her turning around on Billy after he died and realizing she actually loved him all along or anything, it was entirely about having absolutely zero outlet to process her feelings on the subject. For a teenager, nothing is worse than feeling like you're COMPLETELY alone with your feelings, and Max's circumstances were more unique than most teens who wind up down that road.

So props to her, she sold it perfectly from an acting perspective.
 
hydruxo

hydruxo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,404
Conditional-Pancakes said:
Great interview with Sadie Sink!

variety.com

‘Stranger Things’ Star Sadie Sink Shares the Vulnerable Way She Tapped Into Max’s Headspace in Season 4, What’s in the Letters

Sadie Sink details the personal experiences she brought to Max in 'Stranger Things' Season 4.
variety.com variety.com
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm so glad Sadie talks about the fact that Max feels guilty about Billy's death more so because of the negative effect it has had on her life rather than just her grieving the relationship (or lack of one) with him. I saw some people complaining that ep 4 didn't have the same impact for them as it did for other people because they didn't buy Max's grief over Billy since it was a dysfunctional relationship and they hated each other, but I don't think that's a fair interpretation of it. Max even mentions in the letter that she wonders what her life would've been like if they had gotten along, and that maybe they could've been friends under other circumstances. It's a complicated situation and I thought Max feeling these things after being forced to move into a trailer park and watching her mom turn into an alcoholic who works multiple jobs was totally understandable. She's just lamenting what her life spiraled into, and she doesn't have anyone else to talk to about it other than the other kids.
 
apieceofstrange

apieceofstrange

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,015
Had mixed feelings about most of this season. The set pieces, effects and monsters are definitely a big step up over prior seasons, but the writing has left a lot to be desired. The skating rink scene was completely ridiculous. Every scene with Mike, Will and Jonathan feels like filler. I really don't get the high praise for episode 4 at all, and thought the Max scene was incredibly corny to the point where was laughing out loud. Even though the story has been predictable and the main cast never feels in danger, Episode 7 did bring me back into it the way it tied most of the storylines together.
 
Ambitious

Ambitious

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,336
I keep spoiling myself in the dumbest ways.

Halfway through the episode, I realized that I had seen the actor playing Henry Creel before. So I looked him up in a cast list. Obviously, it mentioned him being Vecna.

Yeah.
 
Dragon Puncher

Dragon Puncher

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,312
Laughing Banana said:
I'm new to this series but just basically marathoned all the way from season 1 to the latest released.

The one character that I'm really surprised at finding to be REALLY likable is Steve, especially considering how he started.

If there is ONE character I want to see survive the most, it's him hahaha.

Him >>≥>>>>>>>> Jonathan by like a HUGE margin lol.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Steve is in my mind the best character without a doubt. It's so good how they play the long game over the seasons with him and show that he was really only being a bully because he felt threated by Jonathan and because it was expected for him to do so, since he was the top guy at school in a way. As soon as Billy, an actual bully with sadistic tendencies came into to the story Steve folded very quickly and couldn't hold on to that top spot.

And yeah Jonathan and Nancy always seemed doomed to me, but I was just never a big fan of that character. It doesn't help that he looks more like a high school Teacher than a student. At least the other actors are semi passable..
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,433
Dragon Puncher said:
Steve is in my mind the best character without a doubt. It's so good how they play the long game over the seasons with him and show that he was really only being a bully because he felt threated by Jonathan and because it was expected for him to do so, since he was the top guy at school in a way. As soon as Billy, an actual bully with sadistic tendencies came into to the story Steve folded very quickly and couldn't hold on to that top spot.

And yeah Jonathan and Nancy always seemed doomed to me, but I was just never a big fan of that character. It doesn't help that he looks more like a high school Teacher than a student. At least the other actors are semi passable..
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The Jonathan/Nancy relationship largely seemed to be born of shared trauma, but it didn't exactly seem healthy for them to be together long-term.
 
ascii42

ascii42

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,798
PlanetSmasher said:
The Jonathan/Nancy relationship largely seemed to be born of shared trauma, but it didn't exactly seem healthy for them to be together long-term.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Dating outside the group has got to be tough. How do you tell them: "Just so you know, dating me means you're going to get sucked into helping us defend Hawkins against the evil supernatural entities that seem to pop-up about once every year or so."
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,433
ascii42 said:
Dating outside the group has got to be tough. How do you tell them: "Just so you know, dating me means you're going to get sucked into helping us defend Hawkins against the evil supernatural entities that seem to pop-up about once every year or so."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Nancy's gonna move to Boston and some prick is gonna open a portal to the Upside Down at MIT like a month after she gets there.
 
BoxManLocke

BoxManLocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
France
Done with my rewatch of the entire show, and my initial feelings about season 4 haven't changed. It's by far my least favorite.

It's the only one that has several subpar plots that make it drag on and hurt the pacing. There are too many storylines to deal with at the same time and as a result a bunch of characters simply get left behind. And when it comes to characters' relationships and development, I find this season has a bad case of "telling instead of showing" syndrome. Lots of characters just monologuing instead of having actual dialogue. Lastly, Mike is a douche.
Tying storylines together will solve some of the issues and make for a better end of the season, but I'm not going to congratulate the writers for getting out of a corner they put themselves into.

The premiere was the best episode of the season so far imo. It did a fantastic job of showing where all returning characters were mentally, presented the new ones superbly - when it comes to side characters, the show peaked with Eddie's introduction - and clearly established the stakes with a scary new threat. It was pretty much perfect.
Things became a lot messier right after with the Russia spin-off and El's extremely overplayed bullying shit. I really miss El, and looking at the recycled material they chose to give her in a season where they had more freedom than ever before with the character (being power-free really helped with that), I'm frankly worried to see how they'll treat her for the last season.
 
Fathead

Fathead

Member
Oct 31, 2017
777
hydruxo said:
I'm so glad Sadie talks about the fact that Max feels guilty about Billy's death more so because of the negative effect it has had on her life rather than just her grieving the relationship (or lack of one) with him. I saw some people complaining that ep 4 didn't have the same impact for them as it did for other people because they didn't buy Max's grief over Billy since it was a dysfunctional relationship and they hated each other, but I don't think that's a fair interpretation of it. Max even mentions in the letter that she wonders what her life would've been like if they had gotten along, and that maybe they could've been friends under other circumstances. It's a complicated situation and I thought Max feeling these things after being forced to move into a trailer park and watching her mom turn into an alcoholic who works multiple jobs was totally understandable. She's just lamenting what her life spiraled into, and she doesn't have anyone else to talk to about it other than the other kids.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I have to agree with this. Often its the dysfunctional relationships that are the hardest to get over. Its regret over the relationship not working, guilt over the times when you were unreasonable (even if it was deserved), and a million what ifs that just don't stop. Max losing a rough relationship with a step-brother, then losing her best friend, losing her step-father (even if he's awful and overall its a good thing), losing her house, her mom turning to alcohol, and drifting away from friendships and her boyfriend are all things that are very realistic for how grieving can work, and its sold very well by Sadie Sink.
 
RoninChaos

RoninChaos

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,331
PlanetSmasher said:
Finished rewatching season 2 last night. It's kind of funny how you can pinpoint pretty much the exact moment (2-2) where Mike's character starts to decay into being a selfish brat and never really recovers. He seriously treats Max like shit for the entire season.

Also I think my brain tried to protect me from Episode 2-7 - as soon as the episode started, I passed out. Woke up ten minutes into 2-8.



Probably fairly little. The series outline was created during the break in filming between S1 and S2 - the original outline S1 is based on only covered things up to the end of S1, since they weren't sure if they were going to get renewed. But I'm sure 001's actions in the lab are a deliberate callback to El killing that lady in S1.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
For some reason our Netflix skipped 2-7. We thought Netflix removed the episode. Lol
 
CrazyDude

CrazyDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,727
hydruxo said:
I'm so glad Sadie talks about the fact that Max feels guilty about Billy's death more so because of the negative effect it has had on her life rather than just her grieving the relationship (or lack of one) with him. I saw some people complaining that ep 4 didn't have the same impact for them as it did for other people because they didn't buy Max's grief over Billy since it was a dysfunctional relationship and they hated each other, but I don't think that's a fair interpretation of it. Max even mentions in the letter that she wonders what her life would've been like if they had gotten along, and that maybe they could've been friends under other circumstances. It's a complicated situation and I thought Max feeling these things after being forced to move into a trailer park and watching her mom turn into an alcoholic who works multiple jobs was totally understandable. She's just lamenting what her life spiraled into, and she doesn't have anyone else to talk to about it other than the other kids.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Also Vecna goes after people's guilt so I think there is truth in that some part of her feels happy about his death which is making her feel guilty.
 
Laughing Banana

Laughing Banana

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,498
Bandung Indonesia
Dragon Puncher said:
Steve is in my mind the best character without a doubt. It's so good how they play the long game over the seasons with him and show that he was really only being a bully because he felt threated by Jonathan and because it was expected for him to do so, since he was the top guy at school in a way. As soon as Billy, an actual bully with sadistic tendencies came into to the story Steve folded very quickly and couldn't hold on to that top spot.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

People seem to forget that Jonathan is not entirely blameless too, with him being a creep taking pictures of everyone and even Nancy unclothed without everyone's consent and keeping those to himself like WTF, lol.

He was like so quick to forget he's looking for his brother as soon as he saw Nancy unclothed, hahaha.
 
Last edited:
Biestmann

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,410
FVuXb2BWYAEJWYO


Cursed theory spreading on Twitter. I don't really see it tbh, but the similarity in the shot is funny. Difference being Henry was treated better by his parents than Will is by his own friends. At least from an outsider perspective, as the show doesn't really seem to acknowledge this either
 
OP
OP
Conditional-Pancakes

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,823
the wilderness
AliceAmber said:
Conditional-Pancakes Your turn! ;)

I think mine is "Somewhere Out There" by TWRP. But honestly play any song by them and you'll get me back.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This is such a difficult question because my favorite song changes all the time depending on my mood.

I guess right now it would be California by CHVRCHES.
Or maybe Plot Twist by Sigrid.

I guess it means I'm screwed if Vecna gets me, nobody would know what to blast in my hear. Or maybe it would just work with more songs? I'm not sure, lol!
 
Maple

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,719
Holy shit that trailer for Volume 2. I don't know how I'm going to get through the next 10 days. Insanely hyped.

But I have a bad feeling we're going to lose some core characters. That trailer was way too dark and dire.

If they stick the landing with episodes 8 and 9 this will be the best season yet.
 
Reader mode
You must log in or register to reply here.