We just finished up today and this is my favorite season so far. I love how everything has come together.
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Stranger Things S4 | OT | Every ending has a beginning (Open spoilers)
- Thread starter Conditional-Pancakes
- Start date
- Entertainment Video/Streaming OT
I still remember when I literally got stabbed in the middle of class with the teacher watching and the principal didn't do shit. The teacher was fucking furious at the kid for doing it but the principal took zero action. Wait, that's not true: she literally told my parents "they're so cute at this age, aren't they?" and THEN did nothing.
I mean they did get bullied in season 1 and Will had a little bit in season 2. It's kind of funny how the bullies in season 1 just vanished as characters.
I don't think Vecna is working for the Mind Flayer, but I do think they're working together to achieve the same goal.
Both the Mind Flayer and Vecna have the same goals at this point, taking out Eleven and humanity.
Vecna is going to want revenge on her for "betraying" him at the lab, and we know his general disdain for humanity.
The Mind Flayer is still pissed at Eleven for both S2 and S3 and pretty much wants to wipe out both her and humanity (that's what Billy told her in S3).
Ultimately, both entities really want the same thing, and working together could be their best way to getting it.
Vecna can open multiple gates, which is something the Mind Flayer hasn't been able to do (he's been limited to Eleven and the Russian gate), and Vecna's demobats combined with demogorons/demodogs would be a formidable ground army and air force (especially in a surprise attack, which is what is would be).
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This is actually a good point and I agree with it being the most likely. I was thinking that with all we know of Vecna's personality, (having been forced to be subservient for a period of time to Brenner; and when finally "trusting"/working with someone, Eleven, it backfires) he seems like someone who might want to go at it alone. Regardless I am very curious to see the story unfold.
I still believe the Mind Flayer is "in charge" in the sense that it was likely there before Vecna and it's essentially the source of the hivemind of the Upside Down, but I do agree with linkboy that it's a symbiotic relationship where they share the same goals and are helping each other rather than one where the MF is ordering Vecna to do its bidding. Even with Vecna being as strong as he is, when he was cast into the Upside Down by Eleven he probably wouldn't have survived on his own without the Mind Flayer likely helping in some way. At the end of the day he is still human and he was severely deformed and injured by the lightning when he was thrown into the UD + being in the UD for a long period of time is toxic, so I find it unlikely he somehow recovered and became able to sustain himself in there on his own. So yeah, I still think the Mind Flayer is the overall leader of the Upside Down and is biding its time until Vecna is able to open enough gates to allow for a large scale invasion into the real world. That's what they both ultimately are working towards.
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There is also the fact that the vines that are a part of the hive mind existed before 001 became Vecna, as you can see from the vines being around the gate that El used to push 001 though. Vecna also uses the vines to enhance his powers. I wonder if season 4 ends with Vecna dying and then having Mind Flayer enter and take over his body.
That's a good point, I wonder if the vines enhancing his powers are part of the sustenance from the Mind Flayer that also helps him survive there.
Definitely think there will be a big moment with the Mind Flayer in Part 2 since it has been laying low this season. It'll be interesting to see what happens, if anything, with the portion of it that's stuck in the Russian tank in the Part 2 trailer.
Something that just came to me. If Vecna and the Mind Flayer are in cahoots, this means that the Mind Flayer already had knowledge of our world (courtesy of Vecna) before the events of the first season.
I know I'd be pretty interested if this strange creature with psychokinetic and telekinetic powers just randomly showed up in my world.
I've been browsing this thread randomly after binge watching the season last weekend and this is the best post and idea by far.
Yup. I had the same thought when watching that episode and it's all I want to see.
If you are comfortable with gore and some disturbing storytelling Hellraiser is ABSOLUTELY worth watching once. Incredible movie, and the affects have held up very well. Pinhead is a very memorable character.
This would be my preferred time of year as well. But I'm willing to bet they will go for Christmas. If only for the merchandising alone. Hehehehe
I say this fully well knowing I'd be in target buying that Xmas stuff.
I want to see them do a full Christmas season. We only got like a tiny bit of Christmas at the end of (season 1?) and it was basically just an epilogue. I want to see them dealing with horrible Indiana snowfall while fighting monsters.
LAKE EFFECT VS. MIND FLAYER, WHO WILL WIN
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So since the mindflayer and it's creatures are really kind of cosmic beings who don't seem to communicate with humans, do we think maybe Vecna had any connection with it being able to communicate with Billy in season 3?
Another thing i noticed was
Another thing i noticed was
the Russians say they brought the Demogorgon from America. So are we led to believe the only open portals are in Hawkins? I don't know why but Season 3 made me think the Russians traveled through the UD to Hawkins through a portal, thus how they got into the country and set up a base literally under our noses.
I thought so until that line.
But then again, the trailer for part 2 seems to indicate they may have one due to that
museum full of UD stuff.
I think he was asked what his favorite fan theory was, so he was just very lucky/in touch.
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So Volume One released a bit more than two weeks ago. To make it easier to discuss the season, I'm thinking about lifting the spoiler tags requirement for Volume One (but keep it for everything Volume Two). There are still a few people coming in saying they haven't watched everything yet, but I think the vast majority of people posting here did.
What do you think? If nobody has any objections I'll do it before the end of the day (add something to the thread title, a threadmark, etc.)
What do you think? If nobody has any objections I'll do it before the end of the day (add something to the thread title, a threadmark, etc.)
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I think it would be fair to ease up the spoiler requirements a bit. The discussion has mostly calmed down to just speculation about part 2 at this point.
Open spoilers for Volume One. No spoilers for Volume Two.
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To make it easier to discuss the season, let's modify our spoiler requirements.
From now on, S4 Volume One (episodes 1 to 7) can be discussed without spoiler tags.
Same thing for all the earlier seasons of Stranger Things.
But please continue using spoiler tags for everything Volume Two (episodes 8 and 9). Thanks!
From now on, S4 Volume One (episodes 1 to 7) can be discussed without spoiler tags.
Same thing for all the earlier seasons of Stranger Things.
But please continue using spoiler tags for everything Volume Two (episodes 8 and 9). Thanks!
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AliceAmber, could you change the thread title to:
Stranger Things S4 | OT | Every ending has a beginning (Open spoilers for Volume One)
Thanks!
Stranger Things S4 | OT | Every ending has a beginning (Open spoilers for Volume One)
Thanks!
In season 3 Alexei says they tried to open gates in Russia but were unsuccessful, so they had to go to Hawkins where it was easier, because a gate had already been opened.
And also Hopper ended up in Russia jumping through the Hawkins gate, so I guess the gates are connected somehow even if the Russian one isn't that fully "opened" to begin with.
Maybe we'll get more of that next part then because I had completely forgot all that. So if it was unsuccessful how did they eventually make it work? Did they travel across the UD to upside down Russia or something? Maybe its still unclear until next time.
They were. He fell under the platform and then got captured.
Yeah I do hope they explain why Vecna wasn't really present in Seasons 1-3 despite him clearly being in the upside down.
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I love your avatar!
And yeah, I'm sure there will be an explanation. Pretty sure it's not just a cool IT reference (Vacna took 27 years to come back, just like the monster in Stephen King's story).
They are doing a time skip, they talked about it recently:
Stranger Things‘ Creators Tease an Unavoidable Final-Season Time Jump
Searching for Stranger Things Season 5 spoilers? Find out what the Duffer Brothers have to say about a Season 5 time jump here.
tvline.com
I'm curious if Vecna picked up on Max's friendship with Eleven. Max thought about her friendship with El right before she escaped Vecna. Perhaps Vecna let her go so that Max could lead him to El.
They are doing a time skip, they talked about it recently:
Stranger Things‘ Creators Tease an Unavoidable Final-Season Time Jump
Searching for Stranger Things Season 5 spoilers? Find out what the Duffer Brothers have to say about a Season 5 time jump here.
Ah thank you! I've been so out of the news since I grew sick of waiting for season 4 and stopped following the news until it was out and even after that.
Okay so Victor Krill's son is Vecna/001
1. 001 is able to basically manipulate reality/use the powers of the previously untapped dimension that is the Upside Down in order to kill off his family
2. Is "kidnapped" by Dr. Brenner and becomes his pet project in learning how to control these powers
3. At some point Brenner becomes frightened or worried about 001's abilities likely due to 001 having no empathy towards others/basically a sociopath so he "chips" him to subdue his abilities
4. He meets El, convinces/lies to her to get the chip removed, kills everyone before El creates the first portal into the Upside Down
5. 001 gets trapped in the Upside Down and slowly (I guess?) generates into Vecna over the course of, like, 10 years?
6. Probably played puppetmaster or "man behind the curtain" during the first 3 seasons and is responsible for the smoke monster, mind flayer, etc. using Will as his "conduit" or unwilling accomplice.
Just spitballing ideas here.
1. 001 is able to basically manipulate reality/use the powers of the previously untapped dimension that is the Upside Down in order to kill off his family
2. Is "kidnapped" by Dr. Brenner and becomes his pet project in learning how to control these powers
3. At some point Brenner becomes frightened or worried about 001's abilities likely due to 001 having no empathy towards others/basically a sociopath so he "chips" him to subdue his abilities
4. He meets El, convinces/lies to her to get the chip removed, kills everyone before El creates the first portal into the Upside Down
5. 001 gets trapped in the Upside Down and slowly (I guess?) generates into Vecna over the course of, like, 10 years?
6. Probably played puppetmaster or "man behind the curtain" during the first 3 seasons and is responsible for the smoke monster, mind flayer, etc. using Will as his "conduit" or unwilling accomplice.
Just spitballing ideas here.
Natalia Dyer: 20 yo playing 16 in Season 1.
Joe Keery: 23 yo playing 17 year old in Season 1.
Charlie Heaton: 21 yo playing 16 yo in season 1.
Let us say they start filming season 5 next year.
Millie Bobby Brown will be 19 next year.
Finn Wolfhard will be 20 next year.
Noah Schnapp will be 18
Sadie Sink will be 21
Gaten Matarazzo will be 20
Caleb McLaughlin will be 21.
So they'll all be the same age as the actors playing the teens in season 1 playing characters that will be the same age as the teen characters in s1 if they only go forward a year in the show.
Also I find it weird that people complain about them looking too old in s4 when they were still teens when filming. Will's actor was only a year older than the character he was playing.
I mean, that goes without saying that every season has had time skips. We knew that. They also haven't said that it will be identical to the previous time skips. Could go either way.
True, but I think they were answering that question to show that season 5 won't pick up right after season 4 because they previously said that season 5 will start full throttle without the slow build up of previous seasons.
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Was young 001's powers related to the Upside Down dimension, or was he just a very unique kid with telekinesis and illusion abilities (like a cross between Eleven and Eight)? Because the way the story is going so far, I think Eleven actually created the Upside Down during her encounter when 001 at the lab after she opened that first (?) gate. When 001/Vecna was floating and then repeatedly hit by lightning, the Upside Down was looking very much like some kind of "primordial soup" to me, meaning that maybe it didn't exist before.
I hope they don't allow Will to change his hair until the very last episode. Hell give him a boyfriend next season who loves the bowl, even. It's so awful and Noah Schnapp hates it so much but there's something so satisfying about seeing his dumb hair all the time.
Just because it looks primordial, doesn't mean it didn't exist that way before she opened the gate. El has never even been hinted at being able to create thing, only that she could open gates. The vines of the upside down we're around the gate implying that the hive mind and the mind flayer existed at the time the first gate opened.
I do wonder how much Will is going to be in next season considering that he is going to college starting in the fall. Wharton Business school is a pretty prestigious school, so I wonder how he'll juggle the two.
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I think the Upside Down has always existed and you could make an argument that El's powers (along with the other kids) derived from that dimension. El's confrontation with 001 has two parties using an incredible amount of power--to the point that El makes a rip in reality which creates the gateway to that dimension.