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Kor of Memory

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,668
Yeah. I dig your view, which means that I like it a lot. I often see people talk about gem rebels dissatisfied with the end of the cast system being a problem for Steven -- gems asking for its return. That's interesting for sure. But I think the "other way around" is even more interesting -- gems dissatisfied with the consequences the leaders and enforcers of the gem caste system have had to face. Those two sides interacting, along with gems fine with the current situation, would be very interesting. And of course, Steven and the gems' role in all of this.

I'm more curious to see what happens with the sudden dispersion of power. Like, if all gems are equal now: Who's going to be the first gem that wants a shit shaped like their torso the size of White Diamond's ship? Who's going to be the first gem that wants one bigger? Are these gems just exploring their limits? Or are they pushing back against eons of repression? How would the diamond's feel about an Amethyst or Jasper building/owning a ship bigger than theirs?

Similarly, if a bunch of gems that once had a sole purpose (like Bismuth for instance) can now freely explore what their capable of, then who knows what kind of scientific discoveries they could achieve (both good and bad). It makes me think of Bioshock where science was free to explore without limitation.
 
Mar 9, 2018
3,766
I'm more curious to see what happens with the sudden dispersion of power. Like, if all gems are equal now: Who's going to be the first gem that wants a shit shaped like their torso the size of White Diamond's ship? Who's going to be the first gem that wants one bigger? Are these gems just exploring their limits? Or are they pushing back against eons of repression? How would the diamond's feel about an Amethyst or Jasper building/owning a ship bigger than theirs?

Similarly, if a bunch of gems that once had a sole purpose (like Bismuth for instance) can now freely explore what their capable of, then who knows what kind of scientific discoveries they could achieve (both good and bad). It makes me think of Bioshock where science was free to explore without limitation.
That is also a very interesting thing to explore. I do hope they explore it. The struggles of actually trying to make things equal. And who gets to decide what equal means.

There's a lot of fun ways to explore this, I always thought the show had many more seasons worth of potential to explore stories like this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,767
It's the pointless cruelty of what Pink did to Spinel that really sticks- the callousness and the carelessness of it. They sold the hell out of the character's emotional state with the garden scene.

Man, Spinel's a really great character- highlight of the movie by a good long distance, and I hope that she can still pop up every so often.

The last verse where she finally starts to move again as she sees Steven on the screen really punches you in the gut and then she transforms as the song ends.

Either that or Steven visits her to see how she's holding up.
 

MoonToon

Banned
Nov 9, 2018
2,029
The fact the gems don't react/care about human life in setting up the kindergarten on Earth implies theyve come across other intelligent life
IIRC the creators stated that before earth they had never met intelligent organic life. Which makes sense ... most of the planets they would pick prob wouldn't be life friendly like earth and even if it did have life nothing says that anything there would be like "Us".

Even as humans we have a .... strange outlook on the value of animal life. We kill countless farm animals and turn a blind eye to their treatment because we deem it necessary for our survival yet shun those who kill certain animals which changes a ton from culture to culture through time (Imma ask people to google "French burning Cats")

So far the Diamonds have only by large (I'm talking "all time". yes, Humans were killed and harmed in the War for earth) done bad things to gem kind when it comes to intelligent life forms that we know of. So them basically giving up their power and freeing their immortal people is a huge act of redemption or step forward. This is a risky move, found it funny that Steven thinks it's all gravy now when he just freed a race of magical robot aliens from the rules that kept them from making Sugilites ... not all Gems care about organic life but w/e, we'll see.


Anyway, I feel like them opening up their home and hearts to Spinel means far more than people think. Yes, they know Steven is NOT Pink ... but he use to be Pink and Pink is still a part of him so he will always be seen as a "Diamond" above other Gems and "lower life forms". Having Spinel around as this treasured guest or new member of the family that they can smother with attention can do way more to show them the complexity and value of other gems as she is not a Diamond and pretty much made to be "your best friend". I don't think they want her to be like their Pearls at all (as in being some slave or servant to do w/e they want) ... they're legit giving her Pink's room and if they can see so much of Pink in her then perhaps this arrangement will be what really drives home Steven's teachings without him being with them 24/7.

Think I read a reddit post saying how she can bring joy to Yellow's stoic persona, show White the value of "lesser life forms" and work through her emotions with Blue. I want that spin off :(
 

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,899
They mean the specific pose feels like it's a direct reference to a specific 1930s cartoon. It feels familiar.

Steven also takes a page from Bartolemeo with the bubble shield boxing gloves.

dQYUDWQ.jpg


I also got the vibe that Spinel's rejuvinator was a reference to Sailor Saturn, or Saturn in general. Saturn was the god of harvest/season and was an anthropomorphization of the cyclical passage of time and is represented by the scythe.
Rebecca Sugar loves herself some anime lol
 

CoolestSpot

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,325
Just saw it. Brilliant as fuck, but what the hell would season 6 be about? Another species warring with the now peaceful gems?

Like what?
 

cbajd5

Member
Oct 25, 2017
513
Really enjoyed the movie, but I'm only posting because I had a half baked related stupid idea related to the movie and SSBU I had I hope someone could enjoy: Other Friends, but Spinel is replaced with Banjo. I'm not sure who'd be good replacements for anyone else though.
 

AliceAmber

Drive-in Mutant
Administrator
May 2, 2018
6,668
Watched it yesterday and already want to watch it again! It was just so damg good.
 

Kino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,317
I agree with you. There is something loopy about the morality of Steven Universe ever since the Diamonds have become bigger characters. The show is uncomfortable to linger on the monsters they've written. The safe pinata to beat is Pink Diamond.

Like I said before, it is also very aggressive in maintaining Steven as "the one". It's like you're watching someone play a Bioware game.
They mean the specific pose feels like it's a direct reference to a specific 1930s cartoon. It feels familiar.

Steven also takes a page from Bartolemeo with the bubble shield boxing gloves.

dQYUDWQ.jpg


I also got the vibe that Spinel's rejuvinator was a reference to Sailor Saturn, or Saturn in general. Saturn was the god of harvest/season and was an anthropomorphization of the cyclical passage of time and is represented by the scythe.
I thought the scythe was a reference to bleach fade to black. I mean, the villains in that movie use a scythe that does exactly the same thing as the rejuvinotar. In fact, that villains in that movie have similar if not identical motivations as Spinel.
 

Shedinja

Member
Nov 30, 2017
1,815
Just watched this. The songs were great, Spinel was great, Rose was Rose lmao.

My initial reaction was that it suffered from movie logic at times (making the "Steven Universe Z" jokes all the more appropriate) but, thinking about it a bit more, they really did cover their bases with regard to things like the change in Homeworld culture between eras which would explain gems like Spinel understanding concepts that newer gems like Peridot just weren't ever exposed to. I can't wait to see where they're going with the series after this.
 

SpankyDoodle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,082
Just watched it with my girlfriend, we both loved it! Spinel was fantastic, the music was wonderful, and it was as beautiful as ever. We both had Steg spoiled for us by Twitter less than 3 hours after the movie aired on Monday, which is absolutely effing ridiculous, but he was still totally rad in the movie. Have they ever said what influences how many arms/legs/eyes/mouths a fusion has?

I didn't see the thing I helped with so now I'm super curious as to where/when it'll show up. Have they given any indication on when the next season will air? Or is it like "calm down the movie just came out good lord"

Also that whole intro was classic Disney as hell, I love that the SU team aren't afraid to pay homage and reference the stuff they love. I already wanna listen to some of the songs again, at first I thought it was a little cheap how easily it worked out for Spinel to go back with the Diamonds but honestly, they set it up right there at the beginning with their song and it fit together perfectly. I hope she comes back in the show though!!
 

Maximo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,159
Only thing I didn't like about the movie was how quickly Spinel learned about Steven and her coming to Earth, feels like the broadcast should have been sent when Steven first returned to Homewold or learned that Pink Diamond was *shattered* letting her be confused and mourn with all these conflicting feelings with a tearful scene of her staying in the garden amongst the overgrown plants believing there is no point now that she is dead, and then later finding out she/Steven is fine they just have new friends now. I mean they even had a welcome back Army/Parade and then a Ballroom Party for Pink/Steven that seemed to have reached every Gem in the universe returning to welcome back Pink, if not for thousands of years then when Steven returned to homeworld it would given her at least two years for her emotions to boil and prepare.
Feels really odd and obviously glaring how quickly it seemed.
 
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SpoonyBob

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,487
Arkansas
Finally got a chance to watch this and I'm a little shocked on the lukewarm response. Great songs and absolutely AMAZING animation (it's crazy how amazing it looks when they have a budget and keep everyone on model). Spinel was great.
 
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Morlas

Morlas

Looking for a better cartoon show.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
72,741
Finally got a chance to watch this and I'm a little shocked on the lukewarm response. Great songs and absolutely AMAZING animation (it's crazy how amazing it looks when they have a budget and keep everyone on model). Spinel was great.
seems mostly very positive everywhere i've looked
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
Something else I just realized. It being weird that Spinel just conveniently found her injector/scythe have been discussed a lot, but something else just came to mind while I was listening to "Other Friends" again (which is such a great song):

I get that Amy/the rest of the Crystal Gems are supposed to be rusty (with Amethyst literally saying as much in "Other Friends"), since it's basically been 2 years since they fought White/did any fighting at all really. But even so, to the best I can tell... it doesn't seem like Spinel was a combat gem at all/did any fighting at all ever before she decided to head to Earth (and even if she had fought when she was Pink Diamond's gem in some capacity, well, she would still be 6000 years out of practice herself). So rusty or no, it's definitely weird how Spinel not only took on the main Crystal Gems all at once, not only did she beat them, but they weren't able to even land a hit on her/they were all poofed at once with one hit of the scythe she had to have just gotten and had no practice with.

It's a super minor thing, and just conveniences so that the movie can have a plot and happen at all and all that, but it's just one more thing that would have been easily fixed if say Spinel had figured it all out and snapped say I dunno 500 years ago or something and plotting and training all that time herself and Steven's message was just the straw that broke the camel's back/what made her finally decide to act now or something.

Like a minor thing for sure, but it's so weird how much it being Steven's message that made Spinel snap makes messy and how moving the timeline even a little bit earlier would fix all that. I get that that's probably runtime related and them having to condense some stuff to get it all to fit into the timeslot, and I can respect that, but it's still nibbling at me a bit the more I think about it (especially since they went out of their way to explain the Crystal Gems being rusty... which logically would apply even more so to Spinel herself, but yet...).
 

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,623
I put it down to the Gems having absolutely no idea what they were dealing with, and Spinel having a power set that lends itself well to just clowning on them. They had her number in the fight at the end, when they knew what they were up against.

We've seen this sort of thing with Lapis before- Homeworld has a habit of making gems with a relatively prosaic function monstrously powerful in a fight, presumably without even considering it. If you've got that level of malleability, you don't need to be designed for combat to be an absolute nightmare to fight.
 

MoonToon

Banned
Nov 9, 2018
2,029
Something else I just realized. It being weird that Spinel just conveniently found her injector/scythe have been discussed a lot, but something else just came to mind while I was listening to "Other Friends" again (which is such a great song):

I get that Amy/the rest of the Crystal Gems are supposed to be rusty (with Amethyst literally saying as much in "Other Friends"), since it's basically been 2 years since they fought White/did any fighting at all really. But even so, to the best I can tell... it doesn't seem like Spinel was a combat gem at all/did any fighting at all ever before she decided to head to Earth (and even if she had fought when she was Pink Diamond's gem in some capacity, well, she would still be 6000 years out of practice herself). So rusty or no, it's definitely weird how Spinel not only took on the main Crystal Gems all at once, not only did she beat them, but they weren't able to even land a hit on her/they were all poofed at once with one hit of the scythe she had to have just gotten and had no practice with.

Again, this is what a cracked Lapis lazuli (a non-combat fancy gem) did to them after being trapped for who knows how many 100s or 1000s of years.



They fought HW (which uses beefy gems like Jasper and fused Rubies) and mostly mindless corrupted gems, when faced with someone with an unexpectedly unique and OP fighting style they can get bodied.

The only reason they turned the tides on Spinel was because she was hyper obsessed with hurting Steven and not dealing with them. She lost her cool and as such lost her creativity.
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
Ehh.... Don't really like the Lapis comparisons since there were very specific reasons she was so strong, what with Earth itself was giving her a massive power boost, with water being everywhere and her being a water-manipulating gem, which obviously didn't apply to Spinel at all. That and since Lapis hasn't pulled off the kind of feats she showed in Ocean Gem since (basically manipulating all of the water from Earth's oceans at once to form a pillar of water reaching out into space), it seems likely (whether it was intentioned that way at the time or not) that her gem being cracked gave her a further power boost on top of that.

But still, point taken.
 

RedVejigante

Member
Aug 18, 2018
5,640
So, I unfortunately totally missed out on the movie, but I'm listening to the soundtrack, and Spinel, characterized particularly in Drift Away, is totally a metaphor for the human relationship with God, right? Or am I reading too much into a children's cartoons?
 

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,623
So, I unfortunately totally missed out on the movie, but I'm listening to the soundtrack, and Spinel, characterized particularly in Drift Away, is totally a metaphor for the human relationship with God, right? Or am I reading too much into a children's cartoons?
No, I think that's a very valid take on it.
 

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,623
I'm sincerely glad someone else feels that is a legitimate reading of the story...All I can say is that I was getting some strange, emotional resonance from listening to Drift Away in regards to my own religious experience.
I've always been very fond of readings like this- the view of the Toy Story movies representing similar themes has always spoken to me too.

If it makes it more meaningful to you, then that's all for the better.
 

RedVejigante

Member
Aug 18, 2018
5,640
I've always been very fond of readings like this- the view of the Toy Story movies representing similar themes has always spoken to me too.

If it makes it more meaningful to you, then that's all for the better.
I guess that's part of what makes art like Steven Universe so meaningful, it can potentially speak to so many heavy themes while still being an entertaining cartoon romp.
 

ginnokane

Member
Oct 28, 2017
487
What a fantastic movie. I expected no less from the Crewniverse. It hit all the right story notes, and felt really well polished, both in story and animation. After seeing this, I sincerely hope season 6+ of the show will be in 23 minute format instead of 11.5 minutes like the previous seasons. It just seems like the natural thing to do here, as the story has definitely outgrown the shorter storytelling format.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,767
If you want a "closer" comparison you could use Jasper since her power set isn't as powerful as Lapis but she did the same thing by bodying them initially with the help of a device.

Then the next time Garnet was able to handle her and afterwards Amethyst (after she got over her issues).

You could say Jasper was not out of practice but her moves are basically more refined Amethyst styled moves and not the craziness of Spinel but yet they were taken down.
 
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Oct 28, 2017
92
I thought the movie was good, but maybe I was expecting more. It worked as both an epilogue to the series, and a prologue to new chapters. Steg was pretty rad, and surprisingly masculine for the series, but that makes sense. I saw a lot of comments here about Spinel's design/powers, which I had no problem with. She's a toy. An abandoned sentient toy. She acts like it.

I appreciated the classic-animation throwbacks (including the sound of Other Friends), but one bit I appreciated that didn't see mentioned was that her pigtails were animated like Mickey Mouse's ears - they stay in the same orientation no matter which way her head faced. It was a nice touch and nod back to early animation.
 
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deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,166
Tampa, Fl
So, I unfortunately totally missed out on the movie, but I'm listening to the soundtrack, and Spinel, characterized particularly in Drift Away, is totally a metaphor for the human relationship with God, right? Or am I reading too much into a children's cartoons?

Honestly I can see that interpretation of it 100%.

For me who has had both friends and lovers with Borderline Personality Disorder it l felt more like a metaphor for that. A person who attaches themselves to someone so hard that relationship becomes part of their identity.

And that leads to annoyance and distant in their partners who sort of try to separate despite the person's instances that the are still together and the most important thing to them.

Which then leads to hate and resentment towards the person they loved so much because their own self worth and ego was tied so much to the partnership.

Only to then jump into the next relationship as fast as possible because of the fear of loneliness.

Hmmm when you think about it that's sort of humanity as a whole's relationship with religion.
 

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,623
There are elements of that, but I don't think Spinel actually did anything wrong in her interactions with Pink Diamond- to my eyes, Pink left her behind in an attempt to put aside childish things when she got her colony. We only really see Pink being annoyed by her after Blue and Yellow tell her that she's got her colony, don't we? Apart from that, Spinel does exactly what she was designed to do, and Pink seems happy to play along.

I don't think Spinel's feelings are unjustified, because Pink treated her absolutely terribly. It's honestly the blackest mark that the character's got against her name- a friend abandoned, simply because she felt she'd outgrown her, and with absolutely no evidence she ever gave her a second thought ever again.
 

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,166
Tampa, Fl
We do actually see Pink consider Spindel a bit "much" before the Diamonds give her a colony. Basically a few times were Pink smiles at Spindel and then goes back to a nuetrel expression or frown after when Spindel turns her back.

The implication is that Pink was sort of getting sick of her antics before getting a colony mainly because she WAS growing up emotionally


Anyone who has had a long term friend you drift away from as you mature and they don't probably can empathize. But then again we can't make an irresistible command to make them stand still forever.
 
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Morlas

Morlas

Looking for a better cartoon show.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
72,741
We do actually see Pink consider Spindel a bit "much" before the Diamonds give her a colony. Basically a few times were Pink smiles at Spindel and then goes back to a nuetrel expression or frown after when Spindel turns her back.

The implication is that Pink was sort of getting sick of her antics before getting a colony mainly because she WAS growing up emotionally


Anyone who has had a long term friend you drift away from as you mature and they don't probably can empathize. But then again we can't make an irresistible command to make them stand still forever.
well Pink only had that kind of power over Pearl specifically, Spinel did move on her own eventually after all
 

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,623
Tricking someone who trusts you implicitly because you can't deal with them doesn't sound like a particularly mature thing to do to me.

I don't see any way in which Spinel was culpable for what Pink did to her- she was only doing what she was made for, and what (from all available evidence) Pink encouraged her to do.
well Pink only had that kind of power over Pearl specifically, Spinel did move on her own eventually after all
Pink didn't need to compel Spinel. Spinel trusted her, and so didn't consider that she'd just been abandoned until she heard that Pink was gone.
 
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Morlas

Morlas

Looking for a better cartoon show.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
72,741
Pink didn't need to compel Spinel. Spinel trusted her, and so didn't consider that she'd just been abandoned until she heard that Pink was gone.
I know, but I've seen the misconception that Pink had the ability to compel gems to follow any order she gave them without question a lot, I still see people say that Garnet can't ask questions because Rose told her not to.
 

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,623
It's been implied it works on Garnet as well as the whole "Never Question This" issue.
I never particularly bought that- Pink interacted with loads of gems as Rose, and there's no evidence that she could bend them to her will with a word. If the order of a Diamond was binding on any other Gem, you wouldn't have stuff like Bismuth turning against her.

Garnet doesn't ask questions because she doesn't need to- she's supremely self-confident, and can read the future.
 

Kasai

Member
Jan 24, 2018
4,281
This is probably stupid, but one of my absolute favorite songs from the movie wasn't even one with words. "Let's Duet" just feels so much like the essence of Greg and Steven down to a tee.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,767
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Steak

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,327
This is probably stupid, but one of my absolute favorite songs from the movie wasn't even one with words. "Let's Duet" just feels so much like the essence of Greg and Steven down to a tee.

It's so good, all the little bits of previous songs in there really sell the "guitarists warming up for a gig" vibe