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Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
If this specific case can be debated, which would require looking at what else is in there, then take it to Valve. Otherwise, maybe the creators should redraw or edit any scenes and depictions of characters that might be crossing the line. I don't think anyone here is in any position to decide what happens.
It's a gay porn game that was shot down by Valve as "child porn" because the main character's boobs aren't big enough (because he's a man).

And people on Resetera are saying "good job Valve" and laughing when the game's creator points out that he even carded the characters when they went into the in-game gay porn section of the store.

I'm not sure how much more can be done for this one.
 

CrazyHal

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,325
People getting upset about this would be pretty silly when there's sites like Nutaku that sell tons of hentai games.
 

Secretofmateria

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,424
Good, the amount of people who are okay with the open pedophilia in many Japanese titles is honestly kind of disgusting
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,046
Somewhere, in a distant city, in a broken down house, there is a budding video game writer. His room has notes and plans pasted all over the walls, drafts and ideas for his coming masterpiece, a game about an old lady becoming an underage girl and having sex with an older guy. It shows great promise already, and with its completion, it would be an epic that would be famed worldwide. Literature experts would regard it as the next Hamlet. But he cries. The new Steam bans have destroyed his dream. And culture itself cries. Video game has lost its chance for this great work to elevate the medium to true greatness. It would have spawned a new genre, the old lady becoming an underage girl to have sex with an older man genre, which would becoming an eternal mainstay alongside the fantasy, science fiction, and romance that we all so take for granted now. His game about an old lady becoming an underage girl to have sex would be the kind of classic which is not just influential, but which every single work across an entire genre bases itself upon.
 

Einbroch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,004
I understand why developers would be upset, but if you're into this stuff there are dozens of sites you can buy these games at that are full blown porn.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
It's a gay porn game that was shot down by Valve as "child porn" because the main character's boobs aren't big enough (because he's a man).

And people on Resetera are saying "good job Valve" and laughing when the game's creator points out that he even carded the characters when they went into the in-game gay porn section of the store.

I'm not sure how much more can be done for this one.

I'd say it's more to do with the high school setting and how the characters look, coupled with the graphic nature of the game. It doesn't matter if it's a straight porn game or a gay porn game, boys and girls will be treated equally with dubious looking content and ages.

Especially with high-school themed content being this graphic

CNdm9vE.png
 

ckareset

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Feb 2, 2018
4,977
Gotta be honest, as much as hentai disgust me I kinda feel like drawings should be allowed.
 

Razor Mom

Member
Jan 2, 2018
2,547
United Kingdom
My only issue with this is that age is such a weird thing in animation. You have characters that look like full grown adults in anime that are 14-16, at that point the number just feels so arbitrary. Yoko Littner from Gurren Lagann is 14 in the beginning of that show and I had NO IDEA until years after I watched it. I genuinely thought she was at least 18!

Then in a show like New Game the characters are very cute, and look like they could be teenagers because of the art style, but they're actually full fledged adults with most of the cast being in their 20s.
This is worth discussing, I think. It's like in the Simpsons when you see flashbacks of Marge when she's a child, and her face is identical to her adult one. With such abstract characters and stylised proportions, age is such a difficult thing to establish in cartoons in general. That's certainly not to say I disagree with valve on this one, but it's going to be interesting to see what their criteria are.
 

Scrooge McDuck

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,039
I wouldn't think a grown woman deciding on performing a medical procedure to make herself feel better be the same as a "born to be 1000 year-old loli"

But thanks for proving my point, Resetera would just react the same and thus no game with interesting visual novel narratives would ever be made like that.
Come on. Look at the games in the article. They are unabashedly titillating games. "We are porn games with sex scenes" is a big part of their selling points. They're not exactly visual novels with interesting narrative that happen to have sex scenes. Imolicious was even rejected by porn sites. There's really no defending that.

I think it's disingenuous to suggest the unwillingness to see characters who look like children having explicit sexual encounters would deprive visual novels of potentially interesting narratives. Take the exact story you suggested, remove explicit sex from it. What would it lose, exactly?
 

aspiegamer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,460
ZzzzzzZzzzZzz...
A+++ thread banner.
You want anime tiddy in your games? Ok fine, if thats your thing whatever. But when they look like children? Nah get on. Good decision.
This is my general opinion toward all these sorts of threads, because it's pretty much a perfect statement. No one is trying to ban anime boobs. People just want, you know, some minimal standards.
It's not about the hentai, it's about their pedo simulators going away.
Also this. No one gives a crap about there being porn online, and no reasonable person is going to kink shame in 2018. It's entirely about age here.
 

MoonFrog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
Somewhere, in a distant city, in a broken down house, there is a budding video game writer. His room has notes and plans pasted all over the walls, drafts and ideas for his coming masterpiece, a game about an old lady becoming an underage girl and having sex with an older guy. It shows great promise already, and with its completion, it would be an epic that would be famed worldwide. Literature experts would regard it as the next Hamlet. But he cries. The new Steam bans have destroyed his dream. And culture itself cries. Video game has lost its chance for this great work to elevate the medium to true greatness. It would have spawned a new genre, the old lady becoming an underage girl to have sex with an older man genre, which would becoming an eternal mainstay alongside the fantasy, science fiction, and romance that we all so take for granted now. His game about an old lady becoming an underage girl to have sex would be the kind of classic which is not just influential, but which every single work across an entire genre bases itself upon.
Sad that this bolded would probably be (and perhaps already is?!) true.
 

devSin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,196
Gotta be honest, as much as hentai disgust me I kinda feel like drawings should be allowed.
So you think graphic depictions of underage sex are permissible because they're cartoons?

I think it's disingenuous to suggest the unwillingness to see characters who look like children having explicit sexual encounters would deprive visual novels of potentially interesting narratives. Take the exact story you suggested, remove explicit sex from it. What would it lose, exactly?
Honestly, the whole scenario sounds like pedo-apologia. "Age is more than just a number!"
 

Sangetsu-II

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,503
Come on. Look at the games in the article. They are unabashedly titillating games. "We are porn games with sex scenes" is a big part of their selling points. They're not exactly visual novels with interesting narrative that happen to have sex scenes. Imolicious was even rejected by porn sites. There's really no defending that.

I think it's disingenuous to suggest the unwillingness to see characters who look like children having explicit sexual encounters would deprive visual novels of potentially interesting narratives. Take that story you suggest, remove explicit sex from it. What would it lose, exactly?

Her Child being born?

Anyway I was just using an example because clearly this dev was disappointed because his YAOI game was banned. A game were it explored what it's like to have differing themes about same sex and growing up, and having a relationship...you know what whatever. I'm wrong, clearly games with different themes should not be explored.
 

Deleted member 35077

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
3,999
The one with the non-consensual groping scene and weird poses of college girls that look like they came from a kodomo anime but with big tits?
I don't know know what game you are talking about, and personally Idk of any visual novel with groping mechanics. That seems to advance of a feature for most visual novels.
 

ckareset

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Feb 2, 2018
4,977
User banned (1 Month): defending child pornography
So you think graphic depictions of underage sex are permissible because they're cartoons?

Honestly, the whole scenario sounds like pedo-apologia. "Age is more than just a number!"
Maybe. I'm not sure. Leaning towards yes, unless there is proof of the harm it causes
 

Scrooge McDuck

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,039
Her Child being born?

Anyway I was just using an example because clearly this dev was disappointed because his YAOI game was banned. A game were it explored what it's like to have differing themes about same sex and growing up, and having a relationship...you know what whatever. I'm wrong, clearly games with different themes should not be explored.
A narrative that has childbirth doesn't need to show an explicit account on how the baby was conceived. Likewise, you don't need to show explicit sexual encounters to explore themes about same sex and growing up, and having a relationship.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,046
You know, there's a word like "lolicon" that's used to refer to people who are attracted to young boys. It's "shotacon". Just to remind people that not all pedophilic anime stuff is sexualizing girls.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Why? Obviously it's disgusting but what's the harm caused?

Times are changing and regulatory bodies as well as Governments will be paying more attention

This refusal is relevant to physical product only (disc, cartridge, etc.) Under the terms of the Video Recordings Act (1984), the VSC Rating Board is required to consider the likelihood of any game causing harm to the user and, subsequently, to wider society by the way in which the game deals with and portrays images of criminal, violent or horrific behaviour, illegal drugs and human sexual activity. The grounds for this decision are as follows: - The likely harm being caused to a viewer or potential viewer, e.g. children or young people.

The game is explicit in its setting within a "school" environment and the majority of the characters are young girls - one child is referred to as being a "first year" student and is seen holding a teddy bear. The game clearly promotes the sexualisation of children via the sexual interaction between the game player and the female characters. The style of the game is such that it will attract an audience below the age of 18.

There is a serious danger that impressionable people, i.e. children and young people viewing the game would conclude that the sexual activity represented normal sexual behaviour. There is a constant theme of sexual innuendo and activity throughout the game that suggests behaviour likely to normalise sexual activity towards children. As a means of reward gained by successfully navigating the game, the player has the means to sexually stimulate the female characters by using either a hand held remote device or touch screen software.

The VSC Rating Board believes this content in a game, which would have strong appeal to non-adult players, is an issue which would be unacceptable to the majority of UK consumers and, more importantly, has the potential to be significantly harmful in terms of the social and moral development of younger people in particular.

https://videostandards.org.uk/ratingboard/featured.html
 

devSin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,196
You know, there's a word like "lolicon" that's used to refer to people who are attracted to young boys. It's "shotacon". Just to remind people that not all pedophilic anime stuff is sexualizing girls.
And double lol at trying to argue that yaoi confers some deep understanding of what it's like to grow up gay.
 

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
This is my general opinion toward all these sorts of threads, because it's pretty much a perfect statement. No one is trying to ban anime boobs. People just want, you know, some minimal standards.
Sony America is going on a censorship rampage, censoring games that even Nintendo doesn't have a problem with, going as far as to censor games in Japan, for the Japanese market (while Sony Japan says nothing about it, because there's no talking to Sony America once they get into one of these moods).

Meanwhile Valve appears to be doing it's usual laughable job of quality control. Last time this happened, they failed to differentiate between rule-followers and rule-breakers, leading people to wonder what the rules even were, and tried to ban a game that had been nominated for the Steam Awards (HuniePop). Because standards.
 

HypedBeast

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,058
I thought they did this already? Or was that sex games in general? Then in that case wouldn't that include sex games with underaged characters?
Seems kinda redundant.
 

Deleted member 35077

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 1, 2017
3,999
^That's a very weird case, as it was rated and approved by the rating boards here in the states, until Sony stepped in and banned it. Makes you wonder if Nintendo would let it have a chance with the Switch.
 

Sangetsu-II

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,503
User Banned (1 Month): Trolling in a sensitive thread, History of severe infractions
A narrative that has childbirth doesn't need to show an explicit account on how the baby was conceived. Likewise, you don't need to show explicit sexual encounters to explore themes about same sex and growing up, and having a relationship.

Ok, I get it no sexual encounters.

Next let's ban games that sexualize animals. It's ilegal too right? Beastiality and such...

Next another genre ban

And another ban...

Until the whole world is censored.

I get high school games with showing 17 under and stuff like that should be banned but...

And hear me out, I am only defending that if the game states they are clearly 18+ and show proof of it that it was literally written with that age in mind that steam should not be banning games for "looking young".

If I draw two turds and make them look small and young will they ban them too?

End of rant.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,061
On the Japanese side, part of this (including recent changes to the Senran games) has to do I think with Tokyo sanitizing itself before the Olympics.

I understand, but I don't see it happening for most JPN visual novels as HighSchool is consider the golden years for most Japanese people with everything afterwards being very depressing because of the work culture over there. I'm okay if people want to live their fantasy through these games if the characters are of legal age and look their part.

Well that gets into the broader societal issues in Japan itself, including their entertainment media. Mainstream news organizations have done stories on that stuff. I've read stuff indicating that even most ordinary Japanese people are grossed out by this kind of stuff.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,046
Ok, I get it no sexual encounters.

Next let's ban games that sexualize animals. It's ilegal too right? Beastiality and such...

Next another genre ban

And another ban...

Until the whole world is censored.

I get high school games with showing 17 under and stuff like that should be banned but...

And hear me out, I am only defending that if the game states they are clearly 18+ and show proof of it that it was literally written with that age in mind that steam should not be banning games for "looking young".

If I draw two turds and make them look small and young will they ban them too?

End of rant.

Real life child porn is banned and somehow that doesn't lead to the world becoming a police state. I highly doubt that Steam would allow that on their platform either, so it's also not as if sexualized cartoon children are the first thing they'll refuse on their platform due to its content.

Why is this, of literally every single narrative that could exist in video games, the place to draw the line?
 
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ckareset

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Feb 2, 2018
4,977
Ok, I get it no sexual encounters.

Next let's ban games that sexualize animals. It's ilegal too right? Beastiality and such...

Next another genre ban

And another ban...

Until the whole world is censored.

I get high school games with showing 17 under and stuff like that should be banned but...

And hear me out, I am only defending that if the game states they are clearly 18+ and show proof of it that it was literally written with that age in mind that steam should not be banning games for "looking young".

If I draw two turds and make them look small and young will they ban them too?

End of rant.

I think drawing a child and saying they are older is disingenuous
 
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