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Steam Deck "modding" Will there be a professional market to "mod" Windows on it.

Will there be a market to get Windows installed on the Steam Deck and how much would it cost

  • No

    Votes: 124 56.9%

  • Yes - under $20

    Votes: 15 6.9%

  • Yes - $20 to $50

    Votes: 4 1.8%

  • Yes - $50 to $100

    Votes: 2 0.9%

  • Yes over $100

    Votes: 2 0.9%

  • What? Valve wouldn't allow that

    Votes: 1 0.5%

  • The potential market will be too small to grow a business out of it

    Votes: 70 32.1%
  • Total voters
    218
Kyougar

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,359
Quick overview:
Steam Deck uses their own operating system: Steam OS. It is based on Linux and runs a compatibility layer called Proton, which makes it possible to run most Windows games on Steam Deck (or any other Linux PC). And Valve is currently working on making more games compatible (or telling Devs how to change a specific thing so that it works on the Deck) and are currently verifying games that are compatible
www.resetera.com

SteamDB: 'First Batch' of Steam Deck games compatibility was pushed by Valve. Verified: 38, Playable: 24, Unsupported: 5. Verified games inside.. PC - Valve

The Verified Games are as follows: Edit: Thanks to Cronen ,unsupported List is as follows:
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com


So!
Steam Deck is a PC, you can just install Windows on it and run every Steam game that also runs on Windows. But what if you are not versed in the whole installing OS's thing, or you don't want to "risk" it?
Would there be a service to install Windows on the Steam Deck from, for example, GameStop? where you bring in your Deck and they install Windows on it.

For the Poll options:
"What? Valve wouldn't allow that" ---> it is questionable if Valve could even forbid it in the first place, not even talking about how they basically said that this is an option. The question could be: Would they disagree with businesses doing it for the customer. (Again, I doubt it)

"The potential market will be too small to grow a business out of it" ---> Make no mistake, in the first 2 to 3 years, this will not be selling tens of millions of units, Valve said they expect a few millions till 2023. And then you have to consider the market of people who would want to install Windows on it.

There is also the issue that you would need a Windows license, that could be added as a cost by the business if you don't have a key beforehand (or if they even allow your own key to be used)
 
VoltySquirrel

VoltySquirrel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
490
It's not particularly hard to install windows, my mom can do it. I don't see why it would be an issue for the Deck.
 
Mivey

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,825
There will be a couple of Youtube guides. That's it. No one's paying for this.
 
cowbanana

cowbanana

Member
Feb 2, 2018
13,685
a Socialist Utopia
Installing Windows is very, very easy. I don't see a market for this. It's easier and faster than buying a new phone and going through all the setup, account creations and all that. Anyone can do it.
 
Faceless_Caesar

Faceless_Caesar

Member
Jul 1, 2020
6,547
This is an enthusiast product and the target audience probably already knows how or can figure out how to install Windows off of a flash drive. If Valve did their job right with Proton you probably wouldn't even need to. A lot of emulators are already available on Linux and can just run natively in whatever distro they have on there.
 
Yata

Yata

Member
Feb 1, 2019
2,961
Spain
As someone who is generally tech-illiterate, I think I can handle installing Windows just fine, at most using the inevitable youtube guides that will pop up. What worries me are the possible consequences of downloading extra stuff or finicking with the base model of the Deck, which again, I think I will be able to find online for free.
 
sirap

sirap

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,210
South East Asia
Hey guys I will mod Windows onto your Steam Deck for *free*.

That's right, free of charge! All you have to do is ship your Steam Deck (please include the original packaging and all the accessories) to my house in Malaysia.
 
Edward850

Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
992
New Zealand
Run Windows media creation tool and download/install to a flash drive.
Insert into steam deck, turn on and press bios key.
Select flash drive, run windows install.

You have now installed Windows on the Steam Deck. Send me 69 bux in an envelope.
 
OP
OP
Kyougar

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,359
Just because it is easy doesn't mean that people would want to "tinker" with it.
Hell, some people here on Era think PC gaming is too convoluted and hard because you have to "tinker" with graphic settings.

And it is not just "installing Windows" in the first place, but also how it works in tandem with the Steam OS experience.
For example, just because Persona 4 Golden is currently not supported and you would want to install Windows on it to play it. Doesn't mean that you would want to play all Deck games on Windows. So someone who professionally integrates the two experiences seamlessly into your Deck would be cool.
 
Starlatine

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,403
Kyougar said:
Just because it is easy doesn't mean that people would want to "tinker" with it.
Hell, some people here on Era think PC gaming is too convoluted and hard because you have to "tinker" with graphic settings.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Tinkering with graphic settings is actually harder than installing windows. Thats how easy it is to install it
 
Stalker

Stalker

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,730
Kyougar said:
Just because it is easy doesn't mean that people would want to "tinker" with it.
Hell, some people here on Era think PC gaming is too convoluted and hard because you have to "tinker" with graphic settings.

And it is not just "installing Windows" in the first place, but also how it works in tandem with the Steam OS experience.
For example, just because Persona 4 Golden is currently not supported and you would want to install Windows on it to play it. Doesn't mean that you would want to play all Deck games on Windows. So someone who professionally integrates the two experiences seamlessly into your Deck would be cool.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You're grasping here and I'm struggling to understand to what end. Do you want to "professionally" install windows?
 
cw_sasuke

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,400
If you need to pay someone to install Windows on a PC i dont know what to tell you.
Not even mentioning the fact of how small of install base the Deck will have and the fact that people buying one are likely able to google and follow a 3 step guide how to get Windows on it.
 
Edward850

Edward850

Software & Netcode Engineer at Nightdive Studios
Verified
Apr 5, 2019
992
New Zealand
Kyougar said:
Just because it is easy doesn't mean that people would want to "tinker" with it.
Hell, some people here on Era think PC gaming is too convoluted and hard because you have to "tinker" with graphic settings.

And it is not just "installing Windows" in the first place, but also how it works in tandem with the Steam OS experience.
For example, just because Persona 4 Golden is currently not supported and you would want to install Windows on it to play it. Doesn't mean that you would want to play all Deck games on Windows. So someone who professionally integrates the two experiences seamlessly into your Deck would be cool.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

At its core I strongly suspect the Steam deck will still be your typical IBM compatible PC, with a standard bios and such. It's about the most sensible thing for Valve to produce while it still running a standard Linux kernel (let alone Windows, which they mentioned would be compatible). If any already existing guide on Youtube about how to dual boot Ubuntu and Windows doesn't work on the Steam Deck, I would be generally surprised.
Which would ultimately mean that any such market already exists, that's just going into your local computer store and asking them to setup a dual boot install for you (if you don't want to do it yourself). A PC is a PC is a PC, even if it's called a Steam Deck.
 
OP
OP
Kyougar

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,359
Stalker said:
It's a simple question, I'm not sure why you consider this a market at all and I'm trying to find justification.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I am asking because I know that " just install Windows" isn't as easy as people think.
Or rather, that there are people who either can't do it or don't want to do it themselves, regardless of how easy it is.

I worked 7 years for the Microsoft Support, telling people how to install or repair Windows.
 
julia crawford

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,252
I'm getting interested in this. What's the difference between SteamOS and running games with proton in other Linux distributions? I'd be interested in getting this and putting Elementary OS in it because that's what i like, but still keep the benefits of Proton.
 
Xiofire

Xiofire

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,136
I'm hoping to do some form of dual boot by splitting the internal 512GB in half and using the SD card slot as "shared" storage for games.

Not trying to hijack, but what's the best file system format to go for sharing libraries between Linux and Windows?
 
OP
OP
Kyougar

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,359
cw_sasuke said:
If you need to pay someone to install Windows on a PC i dont know what to tell you.
Not even mentioning the fact of how small of install base the Deck will have and the fact that people buying one are likely able to google and follow a 3 step guide how to get Windows on it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

In my last years as a Microsoft support engineer, we charged 70€ for repairing or reinstalling Windows. People paid for it.
(it was free of charge before)
 
Starlatine

Starlatine

533.489 paid youtubers cant be wrong
Member
Oct 28, 2017
30,403
Kyougar said:
I am asking because I know that " just install Windows" isn't as easy as people think.
Or rather, that there are people who either can't do it or don't want to do it themselves, regardless of how easy it is.

I worked 7 years for the Microsoft Support, telling people how to install or repair Windows.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There are people who dont know or dont want to tinker with graphical settings too, using your own example. You think they pay for a "professional tinkerer"? Or they just google how to do it / ask their cousin who knows computahs to do it / just don't do it?
 
Brot

Brot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,061
the edge
Kyougar said:
I am asking because I know that " just install Windows" isn't as easy as people think.
Or rather, that there are people who either can't do it or don't want to do it themselves, regardless of how easy it is.

I worked 7 years for the Microsoft Support, telling people how to install or repair Windows.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If installing Windows on the Steam Deck is too hard, I can't imagine these people using Windows on it in the first place. That's where the tinkering begins and not with the installation.
 

jads87

Member
Feb 18, 2019
96
John Kowalski said:
I'm getting interested in this. What's the difference between SteamOS and running games with proton in other Linux distributions? I'd be interested in getting this and putting Elementary OS in it because that's what i like, but still keep the benefits of Proton.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Probably the GUI and maybe the suspense on a game level options. The proton version on the SteamDeck should be the same version as in any Linux distro due to the GPL.
 
Rassilon

Rassilon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,588
UK
i'd pay for it because I don't know anything about windows

/ i'd more likely get my brother to do it
 
OP
OP
Kyougar

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,359
Brot said:
If installing Windows on the Steam Deck is too hard, I can't imagine these people using Windows on it in the first place. That's where the tinkering begins and not with the installation.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

People pay for convenience. it is not about easy, it is about options.

People who are versed in it and can install Windows on it just fine doesn't think it is a big deal.
But what about people who didn't even think about installing Windows on it and they see an advert in GameStop or other retailers with a Gaming section that says "bring your SteamDeck and we Install Windows on it and make it seamlessly work with your current SteamOS installation. Even more games you can play on your Deck"
 
cw_sasuke

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,400
Kyougar said:
In my last years as a Microsoft support engineer, we charged 70€ for repairing or reinstalling Windows. People paid for it.
(it was free of charge before)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Support for a trillion dollar company and the OS that is installed on pretty much every PC is gonna cater to a broader audience than the SteamDeck.

1. Already a very limited device in terms of numbers.
2. Most of them likely dont care about Windows on the Deck and/or know how to install it on there.
3. Even if they are interested in it - they will google how to do it or ask someone to help before spending real money in this.

Just have a hard time thinking that the average SteamDeck buyer would be viable for this.
 
DigitalOp

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,280
Your business acumen is weak if you think the target demographic of a Steam Deck is a consumer base that's gonna have trouble installing WINDOWS of all things
 
OP
OP
Kyougar

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,359
DigitalOp said:
Your business acumen is weak if you think the target demographic of a Steam Deck is a consumer base that's gonna have trouble installing WINDOWS of all things
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I am not trying to make a business, I started a poll, which has options that clearly says it is not feasible.
 
Stalker

Stalker

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,730
Kyougar said:
I worked 7 years for the Microsoft Support, telling people how to install or repair Windows.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This creates a bias in how you perserve general tech literacy because you have dealt almost exclusively with people who needed your help. It might have been thousands but it was the thousands that needed your help.

I worked IT tech support for 5 years and a my industry is IT related and the people Ive spoke to and helped were tech illiterate too. They're also not the target market for a Steam Deck.

The Steam Deck as mainstream as people think it's going to be is going to be an enthusiast product. And typically those people understand technology on a better level.

Installing windows of the device is going to be a niche market for a relatively niche product and expecting it to be an industry that can make money on any level is pretty outlandish in all honesty.

If people want to dual boot and give themselves a janky experience with a full blown OS put on a gaming device with a 7 inch screen then more power to them but the experience won't be pleasant and user friendly and getting it to a point of user friendly is going to require more than just "installing windows" There's issues of driver support, using the outdated steam big picture mode or some other janky fullscreen launcher on boot, disabling unessecary and resource intensive backend windows services and navigating a windows user setup and connection settings in a method that doesn't have a 7inch screen experience and requires either external device input or a on screen input method which yes windows can do but again is going to be rough on such a device.

The handful of people who want this isn't going to justify a market so they can play games the proton OS doesn't support

It's certainly not something a company like Gamestop are capable of supporting or delivering and if anyone has any fantasy about building a buisness model around it then it's a pipe dream with such a small and wide distributed audience that can mostly do it on their own. Not to mention noteably would require multiple licenses and closed souce technology that a business can't use for profit.

It's a youtube video, github and written tutorial pocket homebrew industry like Android on Switch or Windows on Raspberry Pi arguably smaller than the latter and about as sizeable as the former.
 
DemonFox

DemonFox

Member
Oct 29, 2017
220
I understand what your getting at but people who contacted windows support because of troubleshooting with their OS are not the same people who buy themselves a steam deck.
You really believe that a person who is already using steam and is familiar with games on pc needed more help than a video on YouTube to install windows on their deck?
 
astro

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,945
I don't agree with OP, but some of the responses ITT are so tinged with snooty superiority...
 
kurt

kurt

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,747
VoltySquirrel said:
It's not particularly hard to install windows, my mom can do it. I don't see why it would be an issue for the Deck.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

wwm0nkey said:
It's just a PC, installing Windows won't be hard
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

cowbanana said:
Installing Windows is very, very easy. I don't see a market for this. It's easier and faster than buying a new phone and going through all the setup, account creations and all that. Anyone can do it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It is for a desktop pc or laptop.
From what i read, it isn't on steamdeck.
 
Menchin

Menchin

Member
Apr 1, 2019
5,173
If you're the type of person who knows what a Steam Deck is, and that you can install Windows on it, you already know how to look up installation guides yourself
 
Mr. Mug

Mr. Mug

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
646
kurt said:
It is for a desktop pc or laptop.
From what i read, it isn't on steamdeck.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Any reason to believe it will be different than a regular PC? I see no reason why it wouldn't just boot from a usb drive.

As for the question at hand, probably people will try but I think the market is too small for the time being of people who both own a steam deck and don't know how to do it themselves.
 

citrusred

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,964
I imagine the main initial issues with Windows on the steam deck will be stuff like driver support for the controls which will probably come from the community or valve themselves so not something some random dude will be able to help you with.
 
Madjoki

Madjoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,230
Why would anyone pay for someone to install Windows?
You could just install it yourself, faster.
 
IlGialloMondadori

IlGialloMondadori

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
5,495
Kyougar said:
Quick overview:
Steam Deck uses their own operating system: Steam OS. It is based on Linux and runs a compatibility layer called Proton, which makes it possible to run most Windows games on Steam Deck (or any other Linux PC). And Valve is currently working on making more games compatible (or telling Devs how to change a specific thing so that it works on the Deck) and are currently verifying games that are compatible
www.resetera.com

SteamDB: 'First Batch' of Steam Deck games compatibility was pushed by Valve. Verified: 38, Playable: 24, Unsupported: 5. Verified games inside.. PC - Valve

The Verified Games are as follows: Edit: Thanks to Cronen ,unsupported List is as follows:
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com


So!
Steam Deck is a PC, you can just install Windows on it and run every Steam game that also runs on Windows. But what if you are not versed in the whole installing OS's thing, or you don't want to "risk" it?
Would there be a service to install Windows on the Steam Deck from, for example, GameStop? where you bring in your Deck and they install Windows on it.

For the Poll options:
"What? Valve wouldn't allow that" ---> it is questionable if Valve could even forbid it in the first place, not even talking about how they basically said that this is an option. The question could be: Would they disagree with businesses doing it for the customer. (Again, I doubt it)

"The potential market will be too small to grow a business out of it" ---> Make no mistake, in the first 2 to 3 years, this will not be selling tens of millions of units, Valve said they expect a few millions till 2023. And then you have to consider the market of people who would want to install Windows on it.

There is also the issue that you would need a Windows license, that could be added as a cost by the business if you don't have a key beforehand (or if they even allow your own key to be used)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Is this because you're planning to open a business doing this and are asking for feedback?

Maybe you'll make money, I dunno, but:
1) it's an enthusiast device bought by enthusiasts, who typically know how to research and how to do techy things
2) installing Windows is not hard.
 
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