Stealing Amazon Packages in the Age of Nextdoor

Deleted member 8860 · Nov 1, 2019

Or "The Porch Pirate of Potrero Hill Can't Believe It Came to This"

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/11/stealing-amazon-packages-age-nextdoor/598156/

The first time Ganave Fairley got busted for stealing a neighbor's Amazon package, she was just another porch thief unlucky to be caught on tape. In August 2016, a 30-something product marketing manager at Google, expecting some deliveries, got an iPhone ping from his porch surveillance camera as it recorded a black woman in a neon hoodie plucking some bundles off his San Francisco stoop. After arriving home that afternoon, the Googler got in his Subaru Impreza to hunt for any remnants strewn around the streets of his Potrero Hill neighborhood. Instead, he spotted Fairley herself, boarding a city bus, which he trailed while dialing 911. Minutes later, he watched responding police officers pull their cruiser in front of the bus and escort her off. The Googler, sitting nearby in his car, played the Nest Cam tape for them—Yep, it's her—and the police pulled a $107.66 Apple Magic Keyboard from Fairley's purse and black tar heroin from her coin pocket. The officers wrote Fairley a ticket with a court date a month later. "I thought it was just a ticket, and that was it," Fairley said.

Fairley and her neighbor do not agree—will likely never agree—on what happened in the minutes prior to the photos of Fairley going up on Nextdoor. Fairley has sworn that the boxes she picked up were from down the street, where they had been laid out for the taking, and that her 6-year-old daughter was helping to haul them to their home in the public housing around the block.

Julie Margett, a nurse who lives on the street, in a purple cottage with a rainbow gay-pride flag and a "Black Lives Matter" sign in the window, said she was leaving her garage and spotted Fairley coming down her neighbor's stairs carrying boxes with various addresses on them. Surmising that they were stolen, she asked Fairley warily, in her British accent, "What are you doing?"

Fairley called her a racist (in fact, she still does) and told her she was in the middle of moving. "That was what was so disarming about her," Margett told me. "Before you know it, she's torn you to shreds and she's off down the block." Margett snapped photos of the mother-daughter haul act—in one, the young girl sticks her tongue out at the camera—and, after calling the police, uploaded them into a Nextdoor post: "Package thieves."

The proliferation of porch cameras surely contributes to the surveillance culture on Nextdoor and other social apps. Amazon's Ring division has been particularly aggressive in marketing its products, including through city officials. Under the reasoning that more surveillance improves public safety, over 500 police departments—including in Houston and a stretch of Los Angeles suburbs—have partnered with Ring. Many departments advertise rebates for Ring devices on government social media channels, sometimes offering up to $125. Ring matches the rebate up to $50.

While porch cams have been used to investigate cases as serious as homicides, the surveillance and neighborhood social networking typically make a particular type of crime especially visible: those lower-level ones happening out in public, committed by the poorest. Despite the much higher cost of white-collar crime, it seems to cause less societal hand-wringing than what might be caught on a Ring camera, said W. David Ball, a professor at Santa Clara University School of Law. "Did people really feel that crime was 'out of control' after Theranos?" he said. "People lost hundreds of millions of dollars. You would have to break into every single car in San Francisco for the next ten years to amount to the amount stolen under Theranos."

While wealth and race disparities were obvious in the courtroom, they weren't on trial. Nor was the citizen surveillance facilitated by porch cams and Nextdoor to the benefit of corporations and venture capitalists. Nor were such lofty systemic issues as the criminalization of poverty and addiction. The question was simply: Did 12 jurors think Fairley once had heroin in her possession and had stolen some items?

The linked article is fairly lengthy -- initially I had quoted quite a bit of it, but I tried to edit it down and put in a summary instead of stealing clicks.

TL;DR: Poor woman gets caught stealing packages and mail multiple times over (from/by wealthier neighbors who communicate via Nextdoor and post Ring footage), loses custody of her daughter and is sentenced to rehab, walks out of rehab, winds up homeless, continues stealing packages.

One theme is gentrification, of the relatively wealthy vs. the poor. Another is of, perhaps, what appears to be a rather lax justice system (from the point of view of the victims of crime) that still devastates the lives of those who are troubled low-level criminals. And yet another is how neighborhood watches have become tech-driven, with Ring and Nextdoor.

Can you sympathize with the woman trapped in poverty and driven to a life of petty crime? Can you sympathize with the neighbors whose credit cards were used fraudulently and whose Amazon deliveries were stolen? What is justice in a situation like this?

Coyote Zamora · Nov 2, 2019

First it's optional, then it's encouraged, then it's mandatory.

jdmc13 · Nov 2, 2019

the police pulled a $107.66 Apple Magic Keyboard from Fairley's purse and black tar heroin from her coin pocket. The officers wrote Fairley a ticket with a court date a month later.

Wait, what? You only get a ticket for having black tar heroin?

Spiderman · Nov 2, 2019

I'm still baffled that packages are dropped on a porch.

Rackham · Nov 2, 2019

I've read this thread multiple times and I don't get it

joecanada · Nov 2, 2019

I've seen the YouTube vids of porch pirates that are pretty comical but the police aren't coming out for this it's citizens taking over . So unless your goal is confrontation that camera ain't doing shit

ZeroX · Nov 2, 2019

Rackham said:
I've read this thread multiple times and I don't get it

Yeah I'm still trying to figure out what the angle is

Deleted member 8860 · Nov 2, 2019

Rackham said:
I've read this thread multiple times and I don't get it

ZeroX said:
Yeah I'm still trying to figure out what the angle is

The linked article is fairly lengthy -- initially I had quoted quite a bit of it, but I tried to edit it down and put in a summary instead of stealing clicks.

One theme is gentrification, of the relatively wealthy vs. the poor. Another is of, perhaps, what appears to be a rather lax justice system (from the point of view of the victims of crime) that still devastates the lives of those who are troubled low-level criminals. And yet another is how neighborhood watches have become tech-driven, with Ring and Nextdoor.

Can you sympathize with the woman trapped in poverty and driven to a life of petty crime? Can you sympathize with the neighbors whose credit cards were used fraudulently and whose Amazon deliveries were stolen? What is justice in a situation like this?

Coyote Zamora · Nov 2, 2019

jdmc13 said:
Wait, what? You only get a ticket for having black tar heroin?

I realize the news has made those words seem like something god-awful but it's still just heroin, just like the Herin college students use. Small amounts get you an appearance ticket just like a lot of other drugs.

Coyote Zamora · Nov 2, 2019

emag said:
The linked article is fairly lengthy -- initially I had quoted quite a bit of it, but I tried to edit it down and put in a summary instead of stealing clicks.

One theme is gentrification, of the relatively wealthy vs. the poor. Another is of, perhaps, what appears to be a rather lax justice system (from the point of view of the victims of crime) that still devastates the lives of those who are troubled low-level criminals. And yet another is how neighborhood watches have become tech-driven, with Ring and Nextdoor.

I think surveillance driven and perhaps the voluntary increase of the surveillance state is a better way to phrase it.

Creation_Scapes · Nov 2, 2019

None of that makes any sense.

Dennis8K · Nov 2, 2019

What a rambling meaningless article. Thief caught. Gets punished. Keeps stealing and stealing and stealing. Don't steal other peoples stuff.

RobotsAnger · Nov 2, 2019

Is this article expecting me to sympathize with a porch pirate?

Zemst · Nov 2, 2019

Spiderman said:
I'm still baffled that packages are dropped on a porch.

I always thought you need someone to sign?

Umbrella Carp · Nov 2, 2019

Amazon will find a way to profit from this, like selling branded deposit boxes that people bolt to their walls outside and are locked up, and the delivery guy has the only type of key that will get in.

boxter432 · Nov 2, 2019

Umbrella Carp said:
Amazon will find a way to profit from this, like selling branded deposit boxes that people bolt to their walls outside and are locked up, and the delivery guy has the only type of key that will get in.

I mean, you mean...Amazon Key? the thing that exists?

VideogameVices · Nov 2, 2019

You know, maybe she didn't have to steal. That's my only takeaway from this thread. You might be poor but that's no excuse for crime.

Umbrella Carp · Nov 2, 2019

boxter432 said:
I mean, you mean...Amazon Key? the thing that exists?

Uhhh no, nothing like Amazon Key. No stranger, delivery driver or otherwise is getting access to my actual HOME.

Creation_Scapes · Nov 2, 2019

Umbrella Carp said:
Amazon will find a way to profit from this, like selling branded deposit boxes that people bolt to their walls outside and are locked up, and the delivery guy has the only type of key that will get in.

This already exists.

dragonbane · Nov 2, 2019

Umbrella Carp said:
Uhhh no, nothing like Amazon Key. No stranger, delivery driver or otherwise is getting access to my actual HOME.

Amazon lockboxes also exist. And the car thing

Deleted member 8860 · Nov 2, 2019

Umbrella Carp said:
Amazon will find a way to profit from this, like selling branded deposit boxes that people bolt to their walls outside and are locked up, and the delivery guy has the only type of key that will get in.

There are several options Amazon already provides: Locker (at 7 Elevens, etc.), car trunk package deposit (for newer ve), front door package deposit (via home security systems).

robotsanger said:
Is this article expecting me to sympathize with a porch pirate?

I thought we were all about criminal justice reform, minimizing surveillance, and not harshly punishing petty criminals. Guess it's different when it's the toys we order online that are at stake? I mean, in this case, the porch pirate lost her daughter and her home, but wound up going back to stealing almost immediately. Who's better off now?

Supercrap · Nov 2, 2019

robotsanger said:
Is this article expecting me to sympathize with a porch pirate?

It oddly feels that way.

NinjaScooter · Nov 2, 2019

jdmc13 said:
Wait, what? You only get a ticket for having black tar heroin?

Better than clogging up the jail/prison systems with addicts.

Tapiozona · Nov 2, 2019

Umbrella Carp said:
Amazon will find a way to profit from this, like selling branded deposit boxes that people bolt to their walls outside and are locked up, and the delivery guy has the only type of key that will get in.

That's a great idea actually. Probably better to have a combination tied to the order which changes after one use else the keys would be copied and distributed pretty easy.

Teamocil · Nov 2, 2019

Zemst said:
I always thought you need someone to sign?

This isn't viable anymore. Packages are delivered all day long and people who don't deliver packages have things to do like go to work. I shouldnt have to take off work to sign for my cat's monthly delivery of cat food to ensure it's not stolen. People just need to not be assholes.

KHarvey16 · Nov 2, 2019

emag said:
I thought we were all about criminal justice reform and not locking up petty criminals for life on Era. Guess it's different when it's the toys we order online that are at stake? I mean, in this case, the porch pirate lost her daughter and her home, but wound up going back to stealing almost immediately.

Who's getting life in prison?

I think I lost count of how many crimes were committed like half way through the article.

Knight613 · Nov 2, 2019

I'm certainly more tempted to have Amazon packages delivered to Amazon Lockers these days.

mercenar1e · Nov 2, 2019

She's been caught stealing multiple times, was sent to rehab and it didn't help. What more can be done here besides a prison term? I know a lot of commies would love for her to walk away and keep everything she's taken without repercussions simply because they believe the people she's targeting are better off financially but it's time to live in the real world.

Cipherr · Nov 2, 2019

Supercrap said:
It oddly feels that way.

Then this is a poor example. A really poor one. She was even sent to rehab it seems instead of just direct to prison.

Meows · Nov 2, 2019

I feel bad that she lost her kid but they gave her plenty of chances.....

jvalioli · Nov 2, 2019

Edit: removed because I have made a mistake.

Maso · Nov 2, 2019

emag said:
Can you sympathize with the woman trapped in poverty and driven to a life of petty crime? Can you sympathize with the neighbors whose credit cards were used fraudulently and whose Amazon deliveries were stolen? What is justice in a situation like this?

No, I cannot sympathize with people who steal other's mail, no matter their situation. Do not fuck with other people's mail under any other circumstance than bringing a wrong delivery to them.

darkwing · Nov 2, 2019

what, why drop packages on the porch

Trace · Nov 2, 2019

Stop stealing shit and don't downplay thieves. Shit is disgusting and a violation of other people's human rights. It's such a basic breach of fundamental society I don't know how anyone could excuse it.

spootime · Nov 2, 2019

emag said:
There are several options Amazon already provides: Locker (at 7 Elevens, etc.), car trunk package deposit (for newer ve), front door package deposit (via home security systems).

I thought we were all about criminal justice reform, minimizing surveillance, and not harshly punishing petty criminals. Guess it's different when it's the toys we order online that are at stake? I mean, in this case, the porch pirate lost her daughter and her home, but wound up going back to stealing almost immediately. Who's better off now?

The daughter might be.

Septimus Prime · Nov 2, 2019

To be fair, if this person is unable to stop herself from repeatedly committing pretty theft, maybe she isn't the best fit to be raising her child. So yeah, as a parent, I sympathize with her, but at the same time I don't know that she's looking out for her daughter's future either.

thewienke · Nov 2, 2019

I feel like the TL;DR that OP is trying to ask is whether or not theft is justified if you're desperate enough or at least if it should carry a lesser punishment based on socio-economic standing.

Which is a much, much older question in society that predates porch pirates.

TheGreatMightyPoo · Nov 2, 2019

Deleted member 8860 · Nov 2, 2019

jvalioli said:
It fucking sucks that the article uses a drawing of a black kid as the thief.

Those are all figures from the story itself. Ganave Fairley is a black woman.

Lundren · Nov 2, 2019

I got a weird sense of whiplash reading this thread after reading the one about the American Indian tribe that bought their ancient sacred land back. Imagine if someone suggested these people buy their packages back from that woman.

IDreamOfHime · Nov 2, 2019

I felt sorry for her until the part where she had her 6 year old daughter doing the stealing too.
Hate the style of writing that the article is written in though, horrid.

chaostrophy · Nov 2, 2019

The creeping surveillance and vigilante sentiments are fucked up.

I live in a condo building in Chicago. I've had Amazon packages stolen- but that's when Amazon Logistics drivers just leave them by the building door, right along a busy sidewalk. When Amazon still used USPS it wasn't a problem because the postal workers have a key to my building's lobby where the mailboxes are, and I've never had a box stolen by someone else in my building. But apparently they save enough money with their gig-economy Amazon Logistics service that they can afford to replace stuff that gets stolen because of their carelessness. Why would I put a camera on the street and become a petty Big Brother for them? Fuck that.

AMAGON · Nov 2, 2019

I'm suppose to sympathize with a repeating thief....got it.

TheMadTitan · Nov 2, 2019

darkwing said:
what, why drop packages on the porch

Depending on the neighborhood, it's doable. In my neighborhood, everyone's porch is recessed and hidden by a 3 foot wall, so no one can see a damn thing from the street (not to mention houses are elevated higher thanks to the driveways. And there's usually at least one support pillar to further stuff things behind. And thieves generally drive around looking for the easiest targets; someone trying to do the same in my neighborhood would have to walk up to damn near everyone's front door to check for something; a surefire way to get caught.

But of course, not every neighborhood or city is afforded the space. A place like San Fran, unless I was way out in the suburbs, all of my packages will either come to my job, an Amazon box, or would be scheduled to arrive on my days off or when I'm off work.

jvalioli · Nov 2, 2019

emag said:
Those are all figures from the story itself. Ganave Fairley is a black woman.

I knew the person was a black woman (I live around the area) but I thought the drawing was a male black kid. My bad.

Lord Fagan · Nov 2, 2019

thewienke said:
I feel like the TL;DR that OP is trying to ask is whether or not theft is justified if you're desperate enough or at least if it should carry a lesser punishment based on socio-economic standing.

Which is a much, much older question in society that predates porch pirates.

Yeah, I've heard that story.

What's kind of different in this one is that instead of debating whether stealing a loaf of bread to survive is justified, we're being asked to evaluate a woman stealing unknown packages of consumer goods, likely as a means to further a street drug habit. And to further twist it, she's been processed through a system designed to at least deter the behavior, if not provide avenues of escape, and yet she's still grabbing packages knowing full well she is likely to be caught.

Deleted member 721 · Nov 2, 2019

this looks like a case of a kleptomaniac, she doesnt really know the content of the package and she stole mail, and she needs treatment its a serious and sad disease, so yeah i feel bad for that person we shouldn't judge a sick person and society should help her.

Duck Sauce · Nov 2, 2019

We should let her steal all the packages she wants. Have a heart people.

Deleted member 6582 · Nov 2, 2019

It's an interesting article. While it's true she was dealt a bad early lot it's also clear she's a chronic screw-up with plenty of second chances. It also shows that home survellance was able to help a community when the police couldn't. It's really only going to get harder for petty thieves as the deterrants will get more sophisticated.

ApatheticDolphin · Nov 2, 2019

Poverty, addiction, and homelessness will make you desperate.

Stealing Amazon Packages in the Age of Nextdoor

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