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Statue of Racist had text corrected in London
- Thread starter Ocarina_117
- Start date
Gives me some hope that younger generations are more willing to challenge the UK's colonial history.
Team Stephen Yaxley-Lennon just doesn't have the same ring to it
Speaking of defacing UK statues of old racists, there's this little thing, too:
Edit: Who needs one twitter post when you've got a whole thread? (didn't see the thread) https://www.resetera.com/threads/br...n-statue-of-17th-century-slave-trader.221542/
Edit: Who needs one twitter post when you've got a whole thread? (didn't see the thread) https://www.resetera.com/threads/br...n-statue-of-17th-century-slave-trader.221542/
He caused the death of millions of people by starving them. Making some speeches while pissed off his head during a war doesn't erase that.
Team Black Lives Don't Matter doesn't have alliteration I guess
OP
OP
What.
He starved millions of Indians to death when his own cabinet told him not too.
He exacerbated the Bengal famine (in which 2-3 million people died) by refusing to deliver aid to the region.
Not only that, but his previous policies contributed to the creation of the crisis, having diverted food stuffs from the region for the war effort.
Churchill stared on and said "Famine or no famine, Indians will breed like rabbits"
Conversely, "all the good he did" doesn't erase his bad views or the deaths of millions in India partly due to his policies.
Also, Churchill was arguably quite racist even by the standards of his time. The man absolutely despised Indians.
User Banned (Permanent): Dismissing racism and historical atrocities; numerous prior bans for inflammatory behavior including bans for racism.
Eh, Churchill has his fair share of atrocities and problems, millions died due to his actions. At the same time, Europe and the World would be a far different and worse place without him and his leadership against Hitler and the Nazis. These people are able to protest because of Churchill.
I can't support this, but nor will I denounce those who wish to protest against him.
I can't support this, but nor will I denounce those who wish to protest against him.
OP
OP
Should someone who had a "fair share of atrocities" maybe not be honored with a statue though? is that too much to ask?
This is, in part, part of the problem. Far too often this kind of historical actions are hand waved away or chalked up to "time and place" rather than confronted. It both serves to continue to normalize these views and also serves as a slap in the face to minorities who have to walk by statues of racists every day. This is exactly the issue America has with past Presidents or Confederate era leaders. People unwilling to really revisit and reevaluate the past because it would make them uncomfortable and force them to confront their privilege, which is one of the biggest obstacles towards having actual, meaningful progress on tackling racism in society. Stepping back and saying "this fucking racist was RACIST and shouldn't have a statue honoring them" should not be controversial.
People defending him - 'what everyone forgets about jimmy savile was that when he wasn't busy raping children, he raised loads of money for charity'
Good ole Churchill, just hang up a sign that talks about his role in the Bengal the famine and other horrible things he did. Hell it can actually be argued that some of his tactics and choices he and his friends made during the war actually prolonged the fighting.
They certainly did prolong the fighting. If he didn't become PM then the UK would have exited WW2 in 1940 after negotiating a peace deal with the Nazis.
The idea that Churchill is the sole reason why Nazis were overrun is fucking dismissive of the millions of lives the Soviets lost in the Ostfront.
anyway Churchill should have been tried for genocide
anyway Churchill should have been tried for genocide
I hear that argument but as someone of mixed heritage I know Churchill had no desire to see my Jamaican grandparents and their countryman immigrate to the UK. So fuck that guy.
He was considered beyond the pale in his time as well, by a lot of people.
And in 1937, he told the Palestine Royal Commission no great wrong had been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia, according to the BBC.
Prime Minister Stephen Baldwin was warned not to appoint him to Cabinet because his views were so old-fashioned, with even Churchill's doctor saying: "Winston thinks only of the colour of their skin."
Bad views that got millions of people of color killed the world over.
I feel people are overstating his value in the war.
I am sure a competent leader could have been found who wasn't willing to commit genocide.
I mean he killed half as many people as Hitler.
Not to mention that the war was mostly won on the eastern front, though Stalin was a monster too.
I am sure a competent leader could have been found who wasn't willing to commit genocide.
I mean he killed half as many people as Hitler.
Not to mention that the war was mostly won on the eastern front, though Stalin was a monster too.
My parents have some really bigoted views, yet somehow I don't share them. How is that possible?
He stood up against Hitler, yeah, so did Stalin. I wouldn't want Stalin statues all over the place. I'm ok with this.
Yes, he was a bit bloodthirsty for the British military leaders planning stuff, it was all last man standing nonsense, but they did like the morale boosting stuff. Labour could have gone with Lord Halifax when Chamberlain offered to go, i'm not sure what his record was, but he was in the Lords and i don't think people were keen on that idea.
Attlee ran the country domestically during the war which gets overlooked a lot.
If he didn't become prime minister then Halifax likely would have and he was in favour of the UK negotiating a peace deal with the nazis after Dunkirk. Its pretty likely the nazis would have beaten the soviets on the eastern front if the UK wasn't in the war anymore.
Halifax wanted the UK to negotiate a peace deal with the nazis.
I don't know why one couldn't just accept Churchill was a great war time leader but was evil man and an imperialist.
It's pretty much accepted what an evil man Stalin was no matter what the Russians did to defeat Hitler.
It's pretty much accepted what an evil man Stalin was no matter what the Russians did to defeat Hitler.
Nazis = baddies, the Allies = good guys here to save the day and liberate the oppressed under the leadership of this here leader. That's the condensed curriculum version taught in school
History allows us to critical assess famous figures and decide if they're the sort of people we want to have statues.
Some famous figures did a lot of bad things, despite all the good they did. Some famous figures have some good elements, despite the bad things they did. History is written by the victor and some people get really, really good PR campaigns to smooth out the rough.
Some famous figures did a lot of bad things, despite all the good they did. Some famous figures have some good elements, despite the bad things they did. History is written by the victor and some people get really, really good PR campaigns to smooth out the rough.
The problem with all of these statues is the problem with all of history—he who writes it, rights it. People get these romanticized and sanitized views of figures who then become mythic and idolized. People see a statue and figure the person must have been good, why else have the statue?
Just get rid of them all. You want to honor someone with statues? Honor the faceless people on whose backs these nations were built
Just get rid of them all. You want to honor someone with statues? Honor the faceless people on whose backs these nations were built