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Star Wars was never that good you nerds.
- Thread starter Astral
- Start date
Star Wars is undoubtedly iconic. There is absolutely no question about that and it has been the inspiration for thousands of other sci-fi as well. Its universe, lore, world building and aesthetics are unmatched, and the visual language is strong enough to transcend all forms of media.
But are the movies masterpieces of cinema? No, and apart from the arguable case of Empire Strikes Back (which is an actual good movie that vastly improved on the premise proposed by A New Hope), the rest of the movies are okay flicks, overrated and overly elevated by nostalgia.
I guess one other thing to consider too is that while Star Wars is a cultural cornerstone in Western countries, there's less appeal and sheen elsewhere. While I was living in Asia, for example, the common reaction to the series was apathy, even with the modernised cinema tropes in The Force Awakens.
EDIT: Damnit, completely forgot to mention The Last Jedi - it's the only other genuinely good film other than Empire Strikes Back, and had Rise of Skywalker stuck the landing, would've elevated Star Wars to something better.
But are the movies masterpieces of cinema? No, and apart from the arguable case of Empire Strikes Back (which is an actual good movie that vastly improved on the premise proposed by A New Hope), the rest of the movies are okay flicks, overrated and overly elevated by nostalgia.
I guess one other thing to consider too is that while Star Wars is a cultural cornerstone in Western countries, there's less appeal and sheen elsewhere. While I was living in Asia, for example, the common reaction to the series was apathy, even with the modernised cinema tropes in The Force Awakens.
EDIT: Damnit, completely forgot to mention The Last Jedi - it's the only other genuinely good film other than Empire Strikes Back, and had Rise of Skywalker stuck the landing, would've elevated Star Wars to something better.
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Of course, this I get. 100%. Star Wars were the first movies my mom took me to the theater as a kid when they were re-released and I watched every single one since opening day and I do have a lot of care for the series.
I really don't mean to come across as dismissive of that and of course everyone has their own perspective and opinions and that's fine.
But there's a level of buy-in that I don't feel is there anymore on the discourse around the movies, people seem more intent in criticizing the narrative choices and the business decisions behind the series than engaging with the story and characters anymore, and that's what is confusing to me. It stands out to me especially in a series that's always been a bit childish, never took itself too seriously and has been more about being flashy and entertaining than making 100% logical consistency.
Space fantasy was a mistake.
Imagine wasting 2x the time on something when you only need half.
It's the only one that feels like a legit coherent movie and the acting and dialogue is pretty good, 2 and 3 dropped right off a cliff to straight absurdity.
"Mediocre" might be a harsh description of ROTJ. I would say it is good, but not fantastic. It does reflect on how relatively childish it is compared to ESB. All things considered, ESB is really what lends maturity and depth to the series as a whole.
At least the latter end of ROTJ has some really good parts to make it worthwhile. I do think the throne room sequence is a good conclusion to Vader's arc and as a kid it was really satisfying to see Vader's force ghost.
At least the latter end of ROTJ has some really good parts to make it worthwhile. I do think the throne room sequence is a good conclusion to Vader's arc and as a kid it was really satisfying to see Vader's force ghost.
The Last Jedi is the best Star Wars film of the lot that got retroactively ruined because of JJ's bullshit.
Eat my ass.
(I still love it as a standalone movie though)
Eat my ass.
(I still love it as a standalone movie though)
I pretty much agree with OP's quick ratings for everything.
Most of the fandom and goodwill still comes from the OT which are genuinely good films even today, IMO. Like OP said too the franchise does also have a lot of good EU stuff in the form of movies/shows/books/games, as well.
It's just the prequel and sequel trilogy that have ruined everything, and unfortunately is a large chunk of what Star Wars is today. lol
Most of the fandom and goodwill still comes from the OT which are genuinely good films even today, IMO. Like OP said too the franchise does also have a lot of good EU stuff in the form of movies/shows/books/games, as well.
It's just the prequel and sequel trilogy that have ruined everything, and unfortunately is a large chunk of what Star Wars is today. lol
I appreciate what 4 what did for the movie industry. 5 was an enjoyable movie as well.
But yeah, nothing about Star Wars ever clicked with me the way it has for others.
But yeah, nothing about Star Wars ever clicked with me the way it has for others.
I'll give him TLJ. I feel that was the best out of the three. TFA is harmless but the blatant ANH retread is disappointing. My main reasoning for the sequel trilogy being a mess stems from TROS which just invalidates anything good from TFA and TLJ.
As much as I like 7 and especially 8, In all seriousness the last movie does hurt it when you take it as a trilogy. But I feel like episodes 4 through 8 actually work very well together and I just imagine that Trevorrow's vision was what happened in 9 and TRoS was done by some weird fan somewhere for kicks.
I hope people know me enough not to think i'm snobby for saying this, but Star Wars movies can only be good when you're not taking into account actual good movies from the entire spectrum of the medium.
Rogue One seems to be low-key really divisive. You have people either thinking it sits firmly among the best SW movies, others thinking it's a real bore.
1-3 terrible, 4-6 range from good to incredible, 7-9 range from terrible to mediocre.
Didn't see Solo, enjoyed Rogue One for what it was. Mandalorian is mostly excellent. Zero interest in any of the animated shows.
Outside of the OT, I think most of the magic comes from the EU. Granted, a lot of the EU was bad. But it could also be great, and the Star Wars universe has always made it easy to make up your own stories and head-canon. Many of the video games were also great (X-Wing Series, Jedi Knight Series, KOTOR Series, etc).
Didn't see Solo, enjoyed Rogue One for what it was. Mandalorian is mostly excellent. Zero interest in any of the animated shows.
Outside of the OT, I think most of the magic comes from the EU. Granted, a lot of the EU was bad. But it could also be great, and the Star Wars universe has always made it easy to make up your own stories and head-canon. Many of the video games were also great (X-Wing Series, Jedi Knight Series, KOTOR Series, etc).
seems like a thing nerds like to study and quiz each other about than a series of movies they like
Well it all started with IV and V, which is why people are so forgiving about some of the other ones. But yeah, the rest of the movies aren't great. TFA is fun, but not that original, and TLJ is a bit messy but has some strong writing. The rest are mediocre to trash.
Still a fun franchise, though. A lot of solid stuff in expanded media.
Gotta say though Rogue One is overrated. Movie is pretty lame outside of the cinematography and the last battle. Try to name five characters from the movie, it's difficult.
Why'd you have to remind me? Season 2 even started out so promising with the first two episodes.
Still a fun franchise, though. A lot of solid stuff in expanded media.
Gotta say though Rogue One is overrated. Movie is pretty lame outside of the cinematography and the last battle. Try to name five characters from the movie, it's difficult.
Why'd you have to remind me? Season 2 even started out so promising with the first two episodes.
liking Star Wars is like backing a sports team that hasn't won a game in 40 years. there's a couple little victories here or there, but no real wins.
Was it fanfic? Impression I got from TLJ was that fans would've had Luke destroy the Imperial Army with his mind then defeat Kylo Ren with ease and tell Rey her training was about to begin and that she needed 10,000 force points to level up. Fanfic doesn't do any degree of subtle.
OP
OP
No need because the fans know it's all garbage except for the first one and no one really argues that. Star Wars fans whine about how TLJ ruined Star Wars when Star Wars has been garbage since 1999. Even before that if you wanna be extra mean about ROTJ.
Catch up to new Trek and I think your opinion will change a lot.
Mando S2 was fanfic, not TLJ. TLJ didn't do well with some people cause they tried to hard to subvert expectations an average fan would have.