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Wrighteous86

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,128
Chicago
My understanding is that she intervened this time because Rey was about to die, she sensed Kylo was winning the duel and was about to strike her down. She projected to him to interrupt the duel and make one last attempt to turn him.
May be misremembering, but wasn't Kylo clearly just pushing and prodding at Rey in this fight, toying with her to piss her off so she dips into the dark side? Isn't this the fight where he's clearly not trying to take her down and actually drops his guard whenever she isn't attacking?

Odd that Leia would think she needed to intervene to save Rey's lifein that case.
 
Oct 31, 2017
12,084
I really wish I could

TallDefenselessBernesemountaindog-size_restricted.gif


=P

Okay, but for real, lemme okay this poster:

Same, I found the film's pacing way better on rewatch. The way it just constantly builds and ratchets up the tension from when Rey leaves Ach-To all the way to the end is really well done.

It was the same way for me. The first time I watched it, I just liked it, but I saw the negative response to it and it made me think that it was really a sluggishly paced bit and superfluous.

On a rewatch, it was way better, and on my most recent one going into Episode 9, I just loved it. The entire journey and what Finn learns are really cool, and to see all the arcs, one by one, payoff from all the setups in the movie is an enormously gratifying achievement.

I think it'll grow on some people. When I first watched ESB after so many years, I actually thought it was slow. And it isn't go!go!go! even now, but everything works and everything clicks, so stuff like the monster on the asteroid or Yoda's training is actually very satisfying and entertaining on rewatches because there are no wasted scenes. It ends up not being slow, but more a movie that allows some scenes to breathe before taking it up a notch. For TLJ, it's a bit more tension here, a bit more tension there, and every arc pays off in the climax.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,620
The whole "hyperspace skipping" nonsense in his first scene shits all over his character development IMO.
I don't really have an issue with that. I do think it would've been better to have Leia pass away in between films for a lot of reasons, one of those being that it would thrust Poe into the hot seat as the leader of the Resistance right from the jump, rather than in the second half of the movie.

The major missed opportunity with Poe in this movie imo is that they put him back in the cockpit again for the final battle. I think it would've gone a long way in solidifying his arc if JJ had him calling the shots for the battle from the Tantive IV type cruiser, sort of as an Ackbar-in-ROTJ type figure.
 

Ushojax

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,930
The whole "hyperspace skipping" nonsense in his first scene shits all over his character development IMO.

There was also no need to bring back the hyperspace tracking from TLJ and apply it to small fighter craft, just another example of this movie trying too hard to "link" with the other films and accidentally destroying the world of Star Wars.
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,238
Yeah I'm going to pretend the new Trilogy doesn't exist.

Never have I've been more pissed watching a movie before.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,994
Wait, if Snoke was just a clone that Palps didn't directly control, how was he so powerful? Snoke was a really powerful Force User. If Palp can just make powerful Force clones like that then why didn't he just make an army of Snokes?
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,277
The only options were recasting, doing a CG creation monstrosity, or opening the film with her funeral, killing her offscreen.

Opening the film with a funeral would have been a much better option because it would at least give us some opportunities for other characterization and would have removed the meta-specter of how they were going to deal with it from the film as soon as possible.

Of course, there are near infinite other options, I am not sure why you would be so confident there are just the 3. Sorta silly.

I mean, if your argument is that the specific creative team involved were only capable of executing on the 3 most obvious options, then I could believe that.
 

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,998
Wait, if Snoke was just a clone that Palps didn't directly control, how was he so powerful? Snoke was a really powerful Force User. If Palp can just make powerful Force clones like that then why didn't he just make an army of Snokes?

TROS' Palp can't follow up a plan. He started making some more Snokes but he got bored after the first two so he threw them in a jar. Coincidentally that's when Kylo visited him so he made a new plan to use Kylo and the First Order. Then he got bored again and decided he would like to have a young woman's body next and he knew the exact niece who can provide that.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,994
Wait, but also Darth Vader had the Wayfinder at his castle so that must mean he periodically traveled there to accept orders from his master. So, either Palpatine took breaks from ruling on Coruscant to give out Sith orders on Exogal to Vader or he's always been on Exogal and Palpatine was a clone. But, if he's always been on Exogal then why did Vader think he killed Palps when he knew he really existed on Exogal?
 

Bor Gullet

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,399
Opening the film with a funeral would have been a much better option because it would at least give us some opportunities for other characterization and would have removed the meta-specter of how they were going to deal with it from the film as soon as possible.

Of course, there are near infinite other options, I am not sure why you would be so confident there are just the 3. Sorta silly.

I mean, if your argument is that the specific creative team involved were only capable of executing on the 3 most obvious options, then I could believe that.

Which are?
 

Sec0nd

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,058
Or you know, you can just write an actual response.

There's only a limited number of options they had for Leia in this, and all of them would be awkward as well.

Opening the film with Leia's funeral would be extremely jarring too.

It for sure would've been. But they can get away with a lot with tolerance for extreme exposition with the opening crawl. So I guess it could've worked. It wouldn't have been as awkward and jarring as litteraly opening the film with 'The dead speak!'
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,771
The more I read what Terrio is putting out there the more upset I get. This movie wasn't just sloppily put together at the last minute or derailed because Carrie Fisher died. It was written by a buffoon.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,620
Or you know, you can just write an actual response.

There's only a limited number of options they had for Leia in this, and all of them would be awkward as well.

Opening the film with Leia's funeral would be extremely jarring too.
Everyone knows Carrie Fisher is dead, opening the film with Leia's funeral doesn't sound like a jarring idea to me, it plays perfectly well off the audience's own knowledge of the actress.

in any event it seems funny to me to argue about this or that idea being too jarring given how jarring the opening 10 minutes of the film already are lol


Luke's death inspiring the galaxy to fight back and Lando simply being the one to rally the troops was my headcanon explanation to reconcile these two things already, so glad to see that's actually confirmed by the writer. Too bad it couldn't have been more directly addressed like that in the actual movie!
 

SpookyLettuce

Member
May 26, 2018
340
That Chris Terrio interview is a dumpster fire.

I've read somewhere that Rian was willing to do IX but only if they could have 3 years instead of just 2 to work on it — anyone know if this is true?
 

Tengrave

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
899
I didn't think it possible but Terrio is making the movie post release worse. "She awakened the good side of her son." What? Good lord.
 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
Wait, but also Darth Vader had the Wayfinder at his castle so that must mean he periodically traveled there to accept orders from his master. So, either Palpatine took breaks from ruling on Coruscant to give out Sith orders on Exogal to Vader or he's always been on Exogal and Palpatine was a clone. But, if he's always been on Exogal then why did Vader think he killed Palps when he knew he really existed on Exogal?

come on man, you are being obtuse >_>

if Palpatine went to exegol once in a while, whats wrong with that?

i mean he took a break to go kill savage opress and darth maul personally
 

Samiya

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 30, 2019
4,811
One thing I have to complain about TROS is the fact that Rey's costume is almost the same as in TFA. I liked when characters "evolve" visually across a trilogy, such as Luke from ANH to ROJ, as just one example.

It's kind of dumb to be honest that there's so little costume design progression between TFA and TROS. Surely Rey has undergone character development, her outfit should reflect that.
 

Hikari

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,695
Elysium
That Chris Terrio interview is a dumpster fire.

I've read somewhere that Rian was willing to do IX but only if they could have 3 years instead of just 2 to work on it — anyone know if this is true?

First I've heard of it. If this is true i'll be mad though. As someone who loved TLJ we could have had an amazing movie instead of this mess. I like some parts of TRoS but I hate more. As a major star wars fan it is quite depressing.
 

Uzumaki Goku

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,295
Like I said.... the problem is...

Rey didn't seem to care WHO her parents were... she just wanted them to COME BACK.
 

Bor Gullet

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,399
Everyone knows Carrie Fisher is dead, opening the film with Leia's funeral doesn't sound like a jarring idea to me, it plays perfectly well off the audience's own knowledge of the actress.

In the context of the story though, it would be jarring since technically the last line of TLJ is from Leia "We have everything we need."

Going from that to oops, here's the followup film with Leia dying of screen doesn't work too well. Think about some kid watching TROS years from now having no idea of Carrie's passing in between films.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,537
From what I have gathered, Laurence Kasden and Rian Johnson seemed to have any fucking clue on what makes Star Wars work. Abrams and Terrio sure as shit did not
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,341
In the context of the story though, it would be jarring since technically the last line of TLJ is from Leia "We have everything we need."

Going from that to oops, here's the followup film with Leia dying of screen doesn't work too well. Think about some kid watching TROS years from now having no idea of Carrie's passing in between films.

Haha I'd be amazed if kids in the future don't watch this in the same way that people watch the prequels, like showings of The Room or Mystery Science Theatre.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,119
Los Angeles, CA
I have liked every SW movie for some reason or another in spite of their flaws and inconsistencies as well. But I think the narrative that if you liked TROS then you hated TLJ is going to persist. It doesn't help that there are posters blaming TROS on TLJ and TLJ on TFA.

Oh, that's no doubt true. I guess I'm just burned out on it all. It's why I haven't participated in Star Wars discussion threads much until this past month.

Making movies is hard. Just like making video games is hard. A lot of variables can effect a production, or force the creative team to make difficult decisions and work with what they have. I think RJ and JJ did a fantastic job of reigniting the Star Wars IP in film after the prequels turned away all but the most ardent of fanboys and fangirls.

All 3 films are flawed. They also all ooze potential. They have quality ideas and plot potential. Creating a story is like Schrodinger's Cat. Your story can be all things at once until a choice is made, then it exists. The thing is, once your choice is made, all other choices have to stem from one another or it all falls apart. Each choice from the creative team directly impacted the next creative team's work.

JJ's work impacted Rian Johnson's work, which impacted JJ's work on TRoS. That's not a negative, by the way. It's how these things work when you're telling a story with multiple parts, trilogy or otherwise. And considering that RJ was working on TLJ while JJ was working on TFA, I refuse to believe this narrative that neither knew what the other was planning with their stories.

TRoS was probably the most difficult, since JJ was brought on super late, and had a tight deadline, so there probably wasn't nearly as much collaborating with RJ (though I doubt JJ never spoke with him at all during production of TRoS).

All of the conspiracy theorizing and fantasizing about a disastrous production seems like wasted energy. If you liked the movie, cool. If you hated the movie, cool. The reality of what went on behind the scenes more than likely isn't nearly as dramatic as anyone thinks. At least when it comes to the notion of some kind of bitter rivalry between JJ and RJ, and how they both set out to shit in each other's cereal.

I don't envy JJ having to tie up this trilogy, especially with a tight deadline, and the loss of one of your key actors. And no, killing Leia off offscreen would have been such a disservice and insulting to her character, as well as Carrie Fisher's contribution to this franchise.

Bringing Palpatine back this late in the game is a questionable decision, but I do kind of like the idea that these 9 movies are about these two powerful, almost dynastic families fighting among each other. Like, the Palpatines and Skywalkers are linked since The Phantom Menace, and now both families conflict has been put to rest. I don't like Rey being a Palpatine, because I loved her being nobody, but I can also find the poetry in her "uniting" the Palpatine and Skywalker lines. She is not her grandfather. She is still her own person. And she honors her mentors by taking on their last name. She is a Palpatine by blood, but a Skywalker in spirit.

Still not a fan, but I can reconcile it. It also opens the door for more in depth stories with Rey and her lineage in EU material.
 
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DMczaf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,274
Las Vegas, NV
There are a lot of things I didn't like about The Last Jedi, but it wasn't "this fucking make no sense" levels like TROS.

I wish Rian was in control of the entire sequel trilogy, just because it would feel like it was someone's creation and not a "this will make everyone happy"
 

SpookyLettuce

Member
May 26, 2018
340
First I've heard of it. If this is true i'll be mad though. As someone who loved TLJ we could have had an amazing movie instead of this mess. I like some parts of TRoS but I hate more. As a major star wars fan it is quite depressing.

I'm in the same boat about TROS — there are a few bright spots in an otherwise depressing experience.

I found an article on Deadline about it, and it looks like they offered it to Rian after Trevorrow left, but he declined.

Uggghhh we could've had it all
 
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