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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker |OT| Revenge of a Sith (SPOILERS NOW OPEN)
- Thread starter MMarston
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He's part of the crew. If I recall correctly you see him doing some repairing work on the Falcon.
For one, I HATED Into Darkness and thought it was easily the weakest of the new ST movies.
Editing wouldn't have fixed the glaring issues with the TROS script. It would have still been the characters jumping from mcguffin to mcguffin before the final confrontation. Yeah, those could have been spread out and paced better, but "sith dagger with blade shaped exactly like death star wreckage" was always going to be incredibly dumb. Rey being Palpatines daughter was always going to be nonsensical and worse than her being a nobody. The Knights of Ren being glorified scouts and putting up less of a fight than the Praetorian guards was always going to be a huge waste. So many things couldn't be salvaged with better editing. I major plot beats, however spread out or reorganized, were fundamentally awful
I've always said this but I've always thought Fast and Furious to be a more enjoyable 8-9 movie main franchise.
The mess with Sith story excuse doesn't even make sense. Kylo Ren isn't a Sith, Snoke isn't a Sith neither had a Darth title why were they bothering to follow that specific convention.
Knights of Ren would have been useful goon's if the Finn being force sensitive storyline was followed though the entire trilogy. Would have given him some dark side users to face off against whilst Rey fought Ren.
Rey counters Palpatine "all the sith" at the end of the movie with her all the Jedi babble. The whole thing was literally not them using the power of every sith and jedi as if they suddenly were highlanders
Not the Jedi part, but the Sith were clearly being literal.
Oh man, the Knights of Ren. I knew they would be total jobbers, but they literally did nothing in the film.
We're just gonna have to agree to disagree if you think the core plot isn't bad.
You don't think the Sith who wanted to take over Rey's body by putting his soul in her was being literal about wanting to put his soul in her?
The Jedi part wasn't literal. We heard the Force ghosts. They were supporting Rey and were probably giving her energy or something, anime style. But they weren't merging with her or anything.
The Sith, however, were very literally all inside Palpatine apparently, and Palpatine wanted them all and himself into Rey's body.
I still can't quite process what an odd experience this film was. As soon as the crawl comes up you can sense that the audience has already furrowed their brows and then the movie blasts off without explaining what the hell is going on.
I know it's just fanwank but I spent literally 5 minutes trying to come up with a crawl that could have outlined a more sensible Episode IX.
"The galaxy is in mourning. General LEIA ORGANA has become one with the Force but she leaves behind a RESISTANCE empowered by the miraculous reappearance of LUKE SKYWALKER.
Before her death, Organa instructed Skywalker's final student, REY, to seek out those who can feel the Force and convince them to join the fight against the FIRST ORDER.
Supreme Leader KYLO REN, consumed by rage after his humiliation at the Battle of Crait, orders the vicious KNIGHTS OF REN to exterminate anyone who dares to follow the path of the JEDI..."
In December 2017, this is where I thought we were headed. I didn't think we would end up with Indiana Rey and the Dragonball of Sheev: Endgame.
I know it's just fanwank but I spent literally 5 minutes trying to come up with a crawl that could have outlined a more sensible Episode IX.
"The galaxy is in mourning. General LEIA ORGANA has become one with the Force but she leaves behind a RESISTANCE empowered by the miraculous reappearance of LUKE SKYWALKER.
Before her death, Organa instructed Skywalker's final student, REY, to seek out those who can feel the Force and convince them to join the fight against the FIRST ORDER.
Supreme Leader KYLO REN, consumed by rage after his humiliation at the Battle of Crait, orders the vicious KNIGHTS OF REN to exterminate anyone who dares to follow the path of the JEDI..."
In December 2017, this is where I thought we were headed. I didn't think we would end up with Indiana Rey and the Dragonball of Sheev: Endgame.
Palpatine said his spirit would pass on to Rey. Not all the sith.
I should probably leave it alone, but really TFA has a dumb core plot too. A repacked ANH with another death star... except it's 10 bigger and it can draw the power of the sun and destroy multiple planets at the same time!
But TFA works because it's well paced and has a cohesive narrative. This does not.
Nonsense in the sense it seemed to have been thrown in just to bring back Palpatine, undermines the idea that you can still be great despite coming from nobodies, and was weakly used to show why she occasionally flirted with the dark side and could use force lightning instead of just having that be something that could happen to any force user who gave into anger (ie. Luke in ROTJ).
They probably would have smoked Kyle Ren, too, if they had blasters instead of weird-looking melee weapons (at least before he got the lightsaber).
It makes sense the same way Leia being Luke's sister makes sense.
Lol no he didn't. Dude was literally holding Rey in place with the force.
TFA has writing that makes sense for its characters. It's got major issues with some of the plotting, like Starkiller base, but the framework is good enough. The core plot, bringing back Palp and The Final Order, is just rotten to the core. Rey's power being undermined by a lineage is rotten. Those are the two biggest selling points of the movie.
Anything can "make sense" if you throw it in and come up with a bunch of terrible ideas to support it. Rey going to the dark side could "make sense". Rey being Luke's daughter could "make sense". Finn converting to a sith could "make sense". If your bar is so incredibly low that something literally just needs to be in the movie to automatically make sense, then we're not going to come to an agreement on this
As far as 3 movie arcs go, it's pretty nonsensical to bring in a all new primary antagonist in the last film and partially justify it by having them be the main protagonists grandpa.
Maybe I'm misremembering. I honestly thought the cloaked figures chanting were previous dead sith.
But when he rejuvenated himself to his ROTS look it was definitely just him.
TFA works mostly because it has an amazing introduction for the main villain and the main three heroes. Then you get Han and Leia reunion and then ... all falls apart because you get another death star plot. Still Han Vs. Kylo and Kylo vs. Finn & Rey saves the end. So you're right in the sense that the main plot of TFA is weak, but the movie focused more on other things than the plot.
If you take away the plot of TROS there's nothing. That's the difference.
Considering that a big part of the reveal is predicated on us accepting the following can you elaborate on how this works from a storytelling and logic perspective?
All of those things were explained already by the fact that Rey is, y'know, a human fucking being. Women contain multitudes and can have dark thoughts without it being part of some grand conspiracy, who knew?
Apparently it was never just him, all the Sith pass on all their souls to the next one during this ritual.
TROS was definitely more concerned on the plot mechanics than focusing on the characters.
tbf, it was a one in a million maneuver, and there were about a million ships in the end battle...
I wonder if they had a larger role at some point. John Williams wrote a motif specifically for the Knights. He did the same for the Wayfinder, in fact, and we know Kylo's search for Palpatine was heavily cut.
I also want to throw in disrespectful, because I feel like this new trilogy disrespects my intelligence and also disrespects the original source material.
Sith Lore absolutely got changed a lot with this movie. The Chanters areliving people though and not dead Sith. Basically Religious Fanatics who worshipped the Sith. They are responsible for the fleet being built and Palpatines return.
I don't know if it's been discussed yet but there's evidence the ending was HEAVILY edited and that Ben was supposed to live.
Even the shot where he falls is actually reversed.
Even the shot where he falls is actually reversed.
Bringing back Palps is an easy way to tie the films together and give Kylo his redemption arc. What's bad is introducing him in the opening crawl.
And Rey's lineage wasn't a selling point of the movie, though I understand if you weren't a fan of the revelation, it's a small cog in a much larger story.
There's heavily cut, and then there's Kylo's search for Palpatine.
Snoke is either directly controlled by Palpatine at all times, and has no thoughts of his own, has general desires that have been put in place into his mind, so his plan is actually the one we see in TLJ, or Palpatine is his 'master' and he's just following orders.
If everything Snoke does is just an extension of Palpatine's plan, then assume Palpatine could turn Kylo killing Rey into a win. If Kylo killed Rey back then, Palpatine probably still tricks Kylo into killing Snoke, lures him to Exegol, and uses him for the ritual, with no pesky Jedi around to try to stop him. The one theme that was consistent in the prequel trilogy is that Palpatine is always setting things up so that no matter who wins a conflict, he usually wins in the end regardless.
Snoke definitely has a mind of his own.
When Kylo meets Palps, the latter says "Snoke trained you well". If Palps was directly controlling Snoke, that line wouldn't make sense.
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