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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker |OT| Revenge of a Sith (SPOILERS NOW OPEN)
- Thread starter MMarston
- Start date
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Yea this is one of the movies greatest sins for me. Took about 20 minutes to undo the frown conjured by the first words of the crawl.Regardless of Fornite, Palpatine's return is something that should have been shown onscreen during the movie. The opening crawl was a weird way to reintroduce Palpatine, and only serves to make you go
I guess since the trilogy is over they're ready to be more forthcoming about some stuff. Fun tidbits from the TRoS Visual Dictionary:
Starkiller:
-The planet that became the Starkiller base is confirmed as Ilum, the kyber-rich planet previously used by the Jedi for thousands of years for the gathering ritual (as seen in The Clone Wars). As many of us expected.
-The small lone star leftover from the Starkiller's destruction is now known as the Solo.
Sith Cultists on Exegol:
-The Sith Cultists on Exegol already existed at least as far back as Return of the Jedi, prior to the deaths of Sidious and Vader. They are believers however they are generally not force wielders on the level of a true sith.
-The cultists longed for the Sith's return and in anticipation began rebuilding a fleet soon after Sidious' death.
-Snoke is said to have been designed by the Sith Eternal Cultists, to train Kylo Ren and eventually to be a test to be overcome, proving whether Ren is worthy of inheriting the Sith legacy. (I assume at the order of Palpatine.)
-Ochi was not an exegol cultist but was a sith lore enthusiast and relic hunter, and enjoyed associating with the cultists.
-Still no explanation is given for the baffling macguffin that is Ochi's blade. Apparently he got drunk once and bragged that he found the wayfinder in the emperors vault, but no explanation is given for why he left it there and made a macguffin blade instead of taking the damn thing.
Wayfinders:
-Sidious and Vader both each possessed their own personal Sith Wayfinder to Exegol. Sidious kept his in the Death Star throne room. Vader kept his on his castle grounds on Mustafar, which is where we see Ben at the start of this movie. (The trees are called Irontrees)
-Luke's Jedi Compass, a prop seen in his hut and also in the Battlefront 2 campaign, is basically the Jedi version of a sith wayfinder. Looks different but same tech. It helped him find Ahch-to.
The Final Order:
-The First Order acted as a testbed for technology later improved upon for use by the Sith Final Order.
-While they are not clones, Sith Troopers receive flash-imprinting and loyalty conditioning based on Kaminoan techniques. Which is more involved than the training that First Order troopers receive.
Dyad:
-The Dyad is an idea that features very prominently in Sith lore.
-The Sith Rule of Two is closely connected to the idea of the force dyad.
-Ben and Rey's dyad connection amplifies their force powers the closer they become.
Misc:
-Maz is who helped Leia acquire her Boushh disguise back in RotJ.
-The design of Obi-Wan's lightsaber appears in the ancient jedi texts, potentially indicating that he based his off an old design.
-The medal Chewie receives at the end is indeed the one that belonged to Han, which Leia was holding at the time of her death.
-That is indeed the Tantive IV. It was found derelict in a hangar somewhere and gifted to Leia.
-After visiting Pasaana with Luke hunting for Sith stuff, Lando liked the people so much he later decided to retire there (which is why he's at the party).
-The briefly seen UA-TT walker is an evolution of the Clone Wars era AT-AP walker.
-D-O is a homemade hobby droid, not a mass produced model.
-Kef Bir is know as the ocean moon of Endor. It orbits the same gas giant as the forest moon. There's also the metallic moon, the dark moon, the patchwork moon, the bleak moon, the ice moon, the rock moon, and the dead moon.
Oopsie:
The VD confirms that it was Ben himself who set Luke's jedi temple ablaze, as was obviously intended by the movies, even though a supposedly canon comic would apparently like us to believe it was actually a strike of lighting (not from Ben) that did it. (Even though comics are technically canon and there's no such thing as C-canon anymore, well...we all know they're still C-canon.)
Starkiller:
-The planet that became the Starkiller base is confirmed as Ilum, the kyber-rich planet previously used by the Jedi for thousands of years for the gathering ritual (as seen in The Clone Wars). As many of us expected.
-The small lone star leftover from the Starkiller's destruction is now known as the Solo.
Sith Cultists on Exegol:
-The Sith Cultists on Exegol already existed at least as far back as Return of the Jedi, prior to the deaths of Sidious and Vader. They are believers however they are generally not force wielders on the level of a true sith.
-The cultists longed for the Sith's return and in anticipation began rebuilding a fleet soon after Sidious' death.
-Snoke is said to have been designed by the Sith Eternal Cultists, to train Kylo Ren and eventually to be a test to be overcome, proving whether Ren is worthy of inheriting the Sith legacy. (I assume at the order of Palpatine.)
-Ochi was not an exegol cultist but was a sith lore enthusiast and relic hunter, and enjoyed associating with the cultists.
-Still no explanation is given for the baffling macguffin that is Ochi's blade. Apparently he got drunk once and bragged that he found the wayfinder in the emperors vault, but no explanation is given for why he left it there and made a macguffin blade instead of taking the damn thing.
Wayfinders:
-Sidious and Vader both each possessed their own personal Sith Wayfinder to Exegol. Sidious kept his in the Death Star throne room. Vader kept his on his castle grounds on Mustafar, which is where we see Ben at the start of this movie. (The trees are called Irontrees)
-Luke's Jedi Compass, a prop seen in his hut and also in the Battlefront 2 campaign, is basically the Jedi version of a sith wayfinder. Looks different but same tech. It helped him find Ahch-to.
The Final Order:
-The First Order acted as a testbed for technology later improved upon for use by the Sith Final Order.
-While they are not clones, Sith Troopers receive flash-imprinting and loyalty conditioning based on Kaminoan techniques. Which is more involved than the training that First Order troopers receive.
Dyad:
-The Dyad is an idea that features very prominently in Sith lore.
-The Sith Rule of Two is closely connected to the idea of the force dyad.
-Ben and Rey's dyad connection amplifies their force powers the closer they become.
Misc:
-Maz is who helped Leia acquire her Boushh disguise back in RotJ.
-The design of Obi-Wan's lightsaber appears in the ancient jedi texts, potentially indicating that he based his off an old design.
-The medal Chewie receives at the end is indeed the one that belonged to Han, which Leia was holding at the time of her death.
-That is indeed the Tantive IV. It was found derelict in a hangar somewhere and gifted to Leia.
-After visiting Pasaana with Luke hunting for Sith stuff, Lando liked the people so much he later decided to retire there (which is why he's at the party).
-The briefly seen UA-TT walker is an evolution of the Clone Wars era AT-AP walker.
-D-O is a homemade hobby droid, not a mass produced model.
-Kef Bir is know as the ocean moon of Endor. It orbits the same gas giant as the forest moon. There's also the metallic moon, the dark moon, the patchwork moon, the bleak moon, the ice moon, the rock moon, and the dead moon.
Oopsie:
The VD confirms that it was Ben himself who set Luke's jedi temple ablaze, as was obviously intended by the movies, even though a supposedly canon comic would apparently like us to believe it was actually a strike of lighting (not from Ben) that did it. (Even though comics are technically canon and there's no such thing as C-canon anymore, well...we all know they're still C-canon.)
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All in all I think the reviews helped me brace myself appropriately, but Palpatine just showing up in the opening scene let me know I was in for something special.
I don't know if this stuck out to anyone else, but this movie in particular seemed to be almost fetishistic about storm troopers dying and watching their corpses flail around and ragdoll in slow motion in a way that felt really off.
I don't know if this stuck out to anyone else, but this movie in particular seemed to be almost fetishistic about storm troopers dying and watching their corpses flail around and ragdoll in slow motion in a way that felt really off.
That scene really needed a super uncomfortable basic cable clothed sex scene where Rey just slips Ben in and they go for it for 30 seconds. I doubt he'd last longer than that. Ben's not like Adam's character in Girls.
Basically the ships were so big they couldn't leave the planet intact without the navigation thang.
It's just a technobabble weakness to give the good guys a way to win.
Sidenote who doesn't love that the Death Star part of the Star Destroyers were the weakness XD
Well personally I was speaking more to the notion that I've seen that the Fortnite thing is some key piece of info that you have to play Fortnite to understand. You get the idea of what it was well enough from the opening crawl.
If you don't like that Palpatine is back from the get go, then I understand that. I think knowing from the leaks that he would be back immediately definitely helped. For me, beginning with Kylo discovering him and, like the audience, not knowing himself how he's back works fine. I was actually fine with leaving it mysterious how he actually came back.
Honestly, I think that beginning ROTS suddenly at the end of the clone war, having Palpatine captured, killing off the last movie's antagonist in the first fifteen minutes of the movie, and introducing a totally new big bad all from the get go is more awkward.
Where's my all-Ewok Sailor Moon knock-off Disney+ series at
Here's a thought - would TROS have worked better if it were split into two movies? Say, Episode IX: Chase For The MacGuffin and Episode X: The Rise Of Sheevwalker.
Thanks for the info.
Absolutely insane that Kylo Ren, president of the Vader fanclub, goes to Mustafar in this movie (to Vader's Castle, no less!), and it's only shown in a montage and you have to read the Visual Dictionary to even know it's Mustafar at all :P
(Thanks for the summary, btw. Amazon's delayed my order of the Visual Dictionary so I don't know when I'll get to dig into it; always a highlight of a new Star Wars release.)
This. People seem to struggle with the idea that no one on the light side can hold onto anger or hatred towards someone without that leading to the dark side.
TROS Thought Of The Day:
When the gang meet Lando, Finn is more excited and reverent towards Lando than anyone else, which kind of doesn't make sense. I mean, sure he's been with the rebellion for a while now, but it felt more like Boyega geeking out over Billy Dee Williams on behalf of the viewer.
When the gang meet Lando, Finn is more excited and reverent towards Lando than anyone else, which kind of doesn't make sense. I mean, sure he's been with the rebellion for a while now, but it felt more like Boyega geeking out over Billy Dee Williams on behalf of the viewer.
Agreed it should have been Rey geeking out as she always does since she's a SW lore fangirl.
I would've liked this movie more if it actually committed to the fanservice - in your face.
Like, I dunno - have all the force ghost of every voice that spoke to Rey appear by her side, all of them pull out their Force Saber and united their blade with Rey's dual blade to create the ultimate "ALL THE JEDI BY YOUR POWERS COMBINED I AM CAPTAIN REYNET" burst of Force energy to reflect the super force lightning back at Emperor.
Like a even anime version of the double Kamehame Ha.
Like, I dunno - have all the force ghost of every voice that spoke to Rey appear by her side, all of them pull out their Force Saber and united their blade with Rey's dual blade to create the ultimate "ALL THE JEDI BY YOUR POWERS COMBINED I AM CAPTAIN REYNET" burst of Force energy to reflect the super force lightning back at Emperor.
Like a even anime version of the double Kamehame Ha.
It's like people forget that Star Wars is a fairy tale
the pacing problems are secondary to the story problems, messaging and or lack therof and a number of terrible decisions.
Yeah I'm getting the sense from wom recently that going in spoiler-free to watch TROS is the lesser experience. Tempered expectations and all that, my mistake.
No, I don't think Palpatine's reveal is well done at all. Bringing back a past antagonist on the level of Palpatine and all its implications is not something I can just gloss over in 5 minutes. I think the movie barely pulls me back in around... the chase sequence to the dagger? But that's its own can of worms ugghh...
Comparing to ROTS is a bit unfair I think because Dooku is just a boring villain throughout AOTC and all your focus is rightfully on Sheev to watch how he corrupt Anakin and destroys the Jedi Order.
There are a lot of things in the Visual Dictionary that I'm wondering how much has changed during the reshoots. Like for example it also specifically alludes to Jannah being Lando's daughter. Mentioning "tragedy struck when his daughter was abducted by the first order". Yet in the film it's nowhere, barring the awkward moment at the end.
I actually buy that Rey, a Jedi, forgives Ben Solo. My problem is that this redemption has zero exploration beyond "he's good now". There is no exploration into his character after redemption, no coming to terms with the crimes he has done, nothing. Just..."he's good now". I almost expected him to do a Sauske's "Yeah Sorry" routine.
I don't mind the redemption so much so as I mind the kiss.
Like, at the end of the day, Kylo Ren has the crutch of being the son of Han and Leia, both of whom Rey greatly admired. And personally, I do buy that Rey has formed a degree of an uncomfortable empathy and relationship with Kylo from their Force Skype that could be seen as a weird kind of friendship/bond/of sorts.
As an audience, Kylo's redemption is honestly not earned from my own pov, but from the narrative perspective, the movie and trilogy already did the bare minimum to make it so that Kylo's redemption arc - one where he's kinda forgiven by Leia and Han and one that ends with him dying - isn't a moment that makes you go *spits at movie* - it's more of a 'groan, I guess I can deal with that.'
Like, at the end of the day, Kylo Ren has the crutch of being the son of Han and Leia, both of whom Rey greatly admired. And personally, I do buy that Rey has formed a degree of an uncomfortable empathy and relationship with Kylo from their Force Skype that could be seen as a weird kind of friendship/bond/of sorts.
As an audience, Kylo's redemption is honestly not earned from my own pov, but from the narrative perspective, the movie and trilogy already did the bare minimum to make it so that Kylo's redemption arc - one where he's kinda forgiven by Leia and Han and one that ends with him dying - isn't a moment that makes you go *spits at movie* - it's more of a 'groan, I guess I can deal with that.'
For the first time I wish a star wars movie would get an extended cut to potentially supplant the theatrical release
lemme see it JJ
Ah, well the film is already overstuffed so it makes sense that they cut some things. It just makes that ending between Jannah and Lando a bit awkward in my eyes.
ROTS and TROS are the two movies that could seriously benefit from extended cuts.
The original sequence had Ren meeting with a spider creature after the slaughter, who gives him a wayfinder which is how he then gets to Exegol.
I think going in knowing it would suck made it suck less. It was definitely mediocre though. Uh, and did I miss somewhere what Finn wanted to tell Rey?
Yeah this would've been neat!I would've liked this movie more if it actually committed to the fanservice - in your face.
Like, I dunno - have all the force ghost of every voice that spoke to Rey appear by her side, all of them pull out their Force Saber and united their blade with Rey's dual blade to create the ultimate "ALL THE JEDI BY YOUR POWERS COMBINED I AM CAPTAIN REYNET" burst of Force energy to reflect the super force lightning back at Emperor.
Like a even anime version of the double Kamehame Ha.
I mean it could have meant something if TROS didn't spend half its runtime either outright rejecting or literally redoing the points of TLJ.
Unlikely we get SE or EC. Since Expand Edition books do that job
There is so much that was cut that Episode 9 was realistically a 4+ hour movie
Honestly that whole thing should have been cut and just have him go there
There will be questions but i wish we didn't waste time on fetch quests
Nope, it's just dropped and never brought up again. Apparently, he wanted to tell her he was force sensitive, according to JJ but I don't buy that. I think he wanted to say he loved her but they just drop it at some point.
He was searching for sith artifacts
Mustafar was the place of Vader's personal temple
So it's pretty likely that Vader would have some of his own sith artifacts at his temple.
Kylo Ren goes to Mustafar, kills a bunch of what i assume to be natives, meets with the oracle, the oracle gives him the wayfinder, wayfinder leads him to Palpatine.
Director Fury: Take us to heading 180! Get us over water.
Bridge pilot: Navigation is recalibrating after the explosion. We're flying blind!
Director Fury: Is the sun coming up?
Bridge pilot: [uncertain] Yes.
Director Fury: Then put it on the left!
It's honestly not important but i can guess it's to do with cut Oracle creature or him hitting the books
I'm genuinely struggling to remember what the plot points were from TLJ, maybe I need to watch it again. All I can remember about it was the Resistance essentially losing everything, the main characters splitting up and individually not really achieving anything and Luke sacraficing himself to make Ben doubt himself. Was there something I'm missing?
Oh, had another thought... when Palpy says "I am all the sith" he must have heard them all whispering to him encouragement.
"Fuck them up Palpatine!" - Darth Plagueis
"You gave her the chance of aiding you willingly, but she has elected the way of pain!" - Count Dooku
"It's ya boi Darth Maul." - Darth Maul
"Fuck them up Palpatine!" - Darth Plagueis
"You gave her the chance of aiding you willingly, but she has elected the way of pain!" - Count Dooku
"It's ya boi Darth Maul." - Darth Maul
They could have cut out a lot of the fetch quest honestly, the entire segment on that planet with Poe's girlfriend and C3PO getting rebooted could have been excised and nothing would have changed. It would have made the pacing of the movie feel like less of a cocaine fueled fever dream if they let other moments breathe instead.
Essential plot points that the sequel was supposed to address:
The Resistance loses nearly everything but survives to continue the fight
The Resistance fails to rally other planets to their cause but Luke's final actions resparks hope across the galaxy
Kylo embarrasses himself because of his insane devotion to "killing the past"
Rey takes the ancient Jedi text to continue on the Jedi tradition
Rose establishes herself as part of the main cast.
I feel like all those people should be pretty pissed at Palpatine, they were probably talking shit the whole time
Rey knows who Poe is? Legit answer would be Kylo Ren now being leader as opposed to minion...for like 5 minutes.
Honestly this is one of the biggest problems with TLJ for me was it wanted to say so much but it didn't feel like it actually did very much barr Rey-Luke-Ren which is absolutely it's redeeming quality. All the other characters sort of flounder in artificially weighty scenarios that feel overly edited and contrived. Plus new cast additions are pretty weak except the First Order generals. My favourite characters in TLJ and RoS have been the new First Order peeps they are all played great.
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