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Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,392
it's going to be really awkward in 10 years when they make Episode X with Rey Skywalker in it and we have to pretend that This Is The End of the Saga for the fourth time when Episode XII comes out
By golly! The twice late Emperor
Palaptine has returned with a
sinister CONGLOMERATE.

President Rey Skywalker has
formed a heroic UPRISING
to counter the new old evil.

Meanwhile, on the desert world
of Whackadak, a young peasant
does chores and dreams of something...
more!...
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
Move your circle to the left a little. You can see stars through the window. There's no space for a room like Rey walked into.
Ochi probably installed this whole thing there after the crash of Death Star then. This is already implied by the fact that his Sith Dagger fits the skyline of the Death Star ruins.
 

FeD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,275
Just saw it for the second, yeah it's just not a very good film. Like when one of the early critic impressions mentioned this was having a good third act I thought Abrams actually did it. The first act in TFA is one of my favorites in all of the saga films, it just works very well, but the third act in that film just is incredibly messy. So when that review hit I thought we would get a film where every act is of the level of that first act.

Instead we have a three act film crammed with six acts of the quality of TFA's third act. Just an incredibly messy film that way to overstuffed.

Like again, when you have Ben and Palpatine talking about that she's not who you think she is, and Ben asking "so who is she" like at that point you would expect a cut to Rey, nope it's Finn, Chewie and Poe playing Dejarik.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
They had so much there to work with regarding Kylo and a surprisingly good Adam Driver, instead they buried it in a bunch of dumb action sequences. (Same with Rey). They had so much there to really get into what drives people to be good and evil and how we come to terms with decisions we have made....But hell no. Pew Pew!

Killing him off at the end is such a cop-out, even worse than basically not having him engage Palpatine at all. That's the guy that has tortured his family for generations and he doesn't even get to take Palpatine down?

We could've had Ben standing aside the ghosts of Luke, Leia and Anakin taking Palpatine out once and for all. The Skywalkers finally rising and putting the man that cursed their bloodline down for good.

Not letting Ben survive and be the one to rebuild the Jedi Order is even worse. There was so much potential for a Ben Skywalker seeking atonement, not forgiveness.
 

KingSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,004
This film was stupid but fun at times if you wanted to go with it.

Star Wars though as an IP has peaked I think. It's 42 years old, it will never be what it was.

They had a second peak with TFA driven hard by novelty nostalgia and they bungled it by having two competing visions for the next two films that aren't coherent with each other.

The fact that they are repeating the same stories as OT in 2 out of 3 movies in ST doesn't help one bit. The IP will not grow as long as it only plays on nostalgia.
 

Gravemind IV

Member
Nov 26, 2017
1,951
How come Palpatine was surprised at the force dyad? Wasn't he (through snoke) indirectly the one who bridged them? That sure as hell fucked him over in the end.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,328
She knew Luke for like two days and he was a dick to her for most of it. Her relationship with Leia was developed almost entirely off screen, and I don't think Leia ever even considered herself a Skywalker.

Nothing about it was satisfying or made any sense.

It makes sense it's just cheesey
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
Did JJ really make Poe, the only Latino main character, a drug runner? Lol fuck this if true.

All sorts of people are drug runners in Star Wars. White people (Han), Black people (Lando), Asian people (Kanjiklub), aliens (Greedo, etc.). Why would being a Latino grant you immunity from this?

And Poe is not the only Latino main character in Star Wars.
 
Oct 28, 2017
13,691
Just saw it for the second, yeah it's just not a very good film. Like when one of the early critic impressions mentioned this was having a good third act I thought Abrams actually did it. The first act in TFA is one of my favorites in all of the saga films, it just works very well, but the third act in that film just is incredibly messy. So when that review hit I thought we would get a film where every act is of the level of that first act.

Instead we have a three act film crammed with six acts of the quality of TFA's third act. Just an incredibly messy film that way to overstuffed.

Like again, when you have Ben and Palpatine talking about that she's not who you think she is, and Ben asking "so who is she" like at that point you would expect a cut to Rey, nope it's Finn, Chewie and Poe playing Dejarik.
Yuuuup! That cut makes absolutely no sense!
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
The fact that they are repeating the same stories as OT in 2 out of 3 movies in ST doesn't help one bit. The IP will not grow as long as it only plays on nostalgia.

IP is what it is. You either like it at this point or you don't, but I think expecting wildly radical shake up is like standing in a McDonalds line and venting frustration that there's no pasta and wine on the menu.

Man just order your damn Big Mac and move along.
 
Feb 21, 2019
1,184
Killing him off at the end is such a cop-out, even worse than basically not having him engage Palpatine at all. That's the guy that has tortured his family for generations and he doesn't even get to take Palpatine down?

We could've had Ben standing aside the ghosts of Luke, Leia and Anakin taking Palpatine out once and for all. The Skywalkers finally rising and putting the man that cursed their bloodline down for good.

Not letting Ben survive and be the one to rebuild the Jedi Order is even worse. There was so much potential for a Ben Skywalker seeking atonement, not forgiveness.
Totally, but requires...you know...some good writing to take the audience there.
 

Bor Gullet

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,399
Having it be Kylo would have made it interesting indeed. Do we really need emperor v.2? He was fucking reduced to being in a pickle jar within 10 minutes of this movie.

We don't need to retread the OG endlessly.

I agree.

But I also don't agree with making Kylo the main threat. It does not work. Unless you're suggesting Kylo shouldn't get redeemed, which goes against the themes of Star Wars.
 

residentgrigo

Banned
Oct 30, 2019
3,726
Germany
I forgot to visually confirm that Raylo is now incest, thx JJ:
4fkhmc98bwh21.jpg

Charles Soule didn´t just invent this in Darth Vader - Dark Lord of the Sith 25. This is from the EP 3 shooting script by George himself. He decided to be more subtle, cough Sperm Opera. This 2-year run was a tour de force btw. HIGHLY recommended.
 

greenwell

Member
Jan 12, 2018
461
The brash Han Solo type that has a thing against authority did some Han Solo things in his past...
Except he's not Han Solo. Han Solo also doesn't have to worry about racial implications.

Yeah, and it's played for laughs too before he talks about how your past doesn't define you.
Hm, don't like it. I was thinking about giving this movie a shot but I won't anymore.

All sorts of people are drug runners in Star Wars. White people (Han), Black people (Lando), Asian people (Kanjiklub), aliens (Greedo, etc.). Why would being a Latino grant you immunity from this?

And Poe is not the only Latino main character in Star Wars.
I'm not going to waste my time explaining racial stereotypes. And I'm pretty sure he's the only Latino main character in this trilogy.
 

Ominym

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,068
How come Palpatine was surprised at the force dyad? Wasn't he (through snoke) indirectly the one who bridged them? That sure as hell fucked him over in the end.
Real answer: Because he wasn't included or considered as a plotline until this movie. He was somehow responsible for everything despite not knowing anything.
Lore Answer: The Force clouded his judgement or some shit.
 

Superking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,622
saw the film yesterday, will make a much more thorough post soon, but does anyone else think the film had some really weird editing?
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,392
So wait, Ochi went that far out of his way to store the Sith artifact in the one place you would think to look for a Sith artifact?
Ochi probably installed this whole thing there after the crash of Death Star then. This is already implied by the fact that his Sith Dagger fits the skyline of the Death Star ruins.
At the point they were like "Well I made a dagger in the shape of the Death Star wreck in this ocean here" I could only think "...why?". What's with this odd line of clues?
 

Katten

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,502
I agree.

But I also don't agree with making Kylo the main threat. It does not work. Unless you're suggesting Kylo shouldn't get redeemed, which goes against the themes of Star Wars.

It could work.

It would require writers that weren't just humping highlights of the past. But it most certainly could work and work motherfucking well.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
That was definetly cool, then I thought oh man, what a cool think another person can do the lightening thing while being good (or still flirting with the dark side) this will be oh.... oh....she is palpatines granddauther...mkay, cool
Yeah lol

And then they also reverse what would have been one of the most shocking things in the series
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
It could work.

It would require writers that weren't just humping highlights of the past. But it most certainly could work and work motherfucking well.

You could do that, but then it means everything Han/Leia were talking about (there's good in him) was a load of shit and they're even bigger failures.

It also means probably the Skywalker lineage is defacto evil really ... Anakin/Kylo even Luke ditching the galaxy is a depressing legacy.
 

Bor Gullet

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,399
So, you have the film open with him decimating the heroes. Easy. The whole ending of TLJ was setting up Kylo Ren, beforehand he was conflicted about who he should be. Vader? Luke? Snoke's ideal apprentice? He finally chooses at the end, he takes off the masks and accepts that he is Kylo Ren. Not a Jedi. Not a Sith. Something new, his own person and he didn't care what anyone thought.

Thus, witnessing such a self actualized Kylo in TROS would've been fun. A Kylo who knows what he is and is thus far more dangerous than the conflicted man-child. The fact that he might be redeemed at the end doesn't change that he's the main villain.

How do you redeem Kylo if he's the main threat? There's nothing for him to turn against.

The whole reason why the Emperor is in ROTJ is to give Vader something to fight against when he turns.
 

roflwaffles

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,138
I forgot to visually confirm that Raylo is incest, thx JJ:
4fkhmc98bwh21.jpg

Charles Soule didn´t just invent this in Darth Vader - Dark Lord of the Sith 25. This is from the EP 3 shooting script by George himself. He decided to be more subtle, cough Sperm Opera. This 2-year run was a tour de force btw. HIGHLY recommended.
This really is the Game of Thrones.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,328
That was definetly cool, then I thought oh man, what a cool think another person can do the lightening thing while being good (or still flirting with the dark side) this will be oh.... oh....she is palpatines granddauther...mkay, cool

I was like at least she's not Luke's lol

In theory the granddaughter of evil incarnate having a shitty life and still choosing to be good works.
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,603
The antagonist in this trilogy was the Dark Side itself, which eventually emanated in Palpatine.

I'm surprised so many people can't grasp that.
Other people are going to debate the actual substance of the point you made, which is largely ridiculous, but I'll just say there's really no reason to be a condescending prick.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,277
First off, Tarkin is the main villain of ANH.

Secondly, Vader being caught by surprise is Han saving Luke's life. Not defeating Vader.

I know who I thought of as the main villain of A New Hope when I first saw it. And I would be pretty comfortable guessing what the results would be if you asked a 100 people who was the villain of that movie. More people would say Vader than could even name Tarkin.

Either way, Vader was caught by surprise because he was overconfident which is very similar to what happened to Kylo.
 

Katten

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,502
You could do that, but then it means everything Han/Leia were talking about (there's good in him) was a load of shit and they're even bigger failures.

It also means probably the Skywalker lineage is defacto evil really ... Anakin/Kylo even Luke ditching the galaxy is a depressing legacy.

One bad apple and all. But this fella also personally took his helmet off and murdered his father in front of Rey. Do we need to redeem him after that?

Edit: Feel like I should be editing in a picture of Kylo torturing Rey in TFA, but hey, it would ruin some narratives.
 

Crushed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,720
obi-wan and yoda failed in defeating sheev and anakin for good because they had only one lightsaber apiece like a couple of chumps

luke failed in killing the emperor for real because he threw away his only (lol just one???) lightsaber like a wimp and said some stupid hippy shit about being a jedi and resisting temptation

rey won because she picked up a second lightsaber which doubled her power level from 5,000,000 to 10,000,000 (overpowering ascended chi absorbed sheev's power level of 9,000,000) and then he was like blargh and his face exploded like a cool mortal kombat move
 

roflwaffles

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,138
rey-and-kylo-ren-face-off-in-the-ruins-of-emperor-palpatines-death-star-ii-throne-room-inthe-rise.jpeg


On a more positive note this was my favorite shot from the movie, but on a more negative note it also could be interpreted as the characters of the ST fighting in the destroyed ruins of a beloved movie franchise, which is incredibly fitting given what Disney has done to Star Wars

This shot was fantastic and gave me Dark Souls/Soul Calibur vibes.
 
Feb 21, 2019
1,184
Yeah lol

And then they also reverse what would have been one of the most shocking things in the series
Abrams just doesn't want any of the consequences of having an emotional impact.
I was like at least she's not Luke's lol

In theory the granddaughter of evil incarnate having a shitty life and still choosing to be good works.
In theory, absolutely, if it built to that...But it didnt. It just kinda dropped that on in there and moved on down the road hoping it shocked you. In the theater i was in, I actually heard a a collective groan when that happened. I giggled.
 

Ominym

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,068
That was definetly cool, then I thought oh man, what a cool think another person can do the lightening thing while being good (or still flirting with the dark side) this will be oh.... oh....she is palpatines granddauther...mkay, cool
The worst part about this is they could've explored it more and made it worthwhile even in the context of the movie we got.

For example when she's fighting Kylo and about to lose, knowing it's 'bad' but using it to defend herself. This act could've opened up a lot of intrigue about whether or not using something like that to defend yourself is, in and of itself, evil? It could also be used to explore Rey's fight against the Dark Side in an actual moment of weakness.

Instead we got Leia killing herself via the Force.
 

Bor Gullet

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,399
I know who I thought of as the main villain of A New Hope when I first saw it. And I would be pretty comfortable guessing what the results would be if you asked a 100 people who was the villain of that movie. More people would say Vader than could even name Tarkin.

Either way, Vader was caught by surprise because he was overconfident which is very similar to what happened to Kylo.

Did Han beat Vader in a one on one duel?

And yes, Tarkin is the main villain of ANH, even though most people only remember Vader. He is Vader's superior ranking officer in that film, and is in charge of the Death Star station.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,328
I will say I'm glad I went in with the reviews in mind, lowered my expectations

And I got spoiled about that kiss so I could prepare myself for that
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,039
How come Palpatine was surprised at the force dyad? Wasn't he (through snoke) indirectly the one who bridged them? That sure as hell fucked him over in the end.
Given that there were obviously several failed attempts at creating Snoke before the one that controlled the FO, it's probably reasonable to think that he was not a perfect clone that could be controlled at all times. Even if he was, as a force user he would have been able to break free of mental conditioning, and as a typical Sith he would have worked for his own ends more than his master's.

I would not be shocked to find out through further stories that Snoke was looking for ways to kill his master, without being taken over as Rey would have been, and the dyad being one avenue to that. It would be very Sith, and makes perfect sense.
 
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