Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker |OT| Revenge of a Sith (SPOILERS NOW OPEN)

[ThisThingIsUseful]

Just came back from my viewing. Palpatine was really shoehorned in. No mentioning or build-up in the two previous movies, and now he's suddenly the big baddie again?

I mean, I take every second of Ian McDiarmid I can get because he's awesome, but his appearance here feels unearned somehow.

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I'm trying to phrase it in a way that makes sense:

The Emperor was the Big Bad, yet he didn't feel as if he was. He was giving commands to the Final Order, but he came out of bloody nowhere. Even at the end when he's telling the Final Order to not succumb to the Resistance's attacks and shot lightning at the sky, I felt as if he was peripheral to the First/Final Order because there was no mention of him controlling anything for the past two movies.

It was a weird feeling. Snoke felt in control in 7 and 8, we knew there was an Emperor in 4 and saw a glimpse of him in 5, and we saw him controlling things in the prequels. Here, he just comes back, and thus his position as the main antagonist is underwhelming despite how creepy he looks and how powerful he is in this.

Hot Take: I get the appeal of Rey Nobody, but all the protagonists in the "skywalker saga" come from important bloodlines, it only makes sense for Rey to follow suit.

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Qui-Gon didn't. It was really mostly Vader-Luke-Leia, with the antagonist of this one being related to Han.

The issue is that JJ Abrams seems to think bloodlines are cool because they're in Star Wars, when things are cool because they're cool and earned. Vader was not originally planned to be Luke's father, but his reveal as being his father subverted all expectations (sounds familiar!) for Luke and the audience. And there was a payoff to it, a huge, phenomenal payoff. Rey finding a place in this story on her own is more interesting than somehow being Palpatine's granddaughter.

 

[roflwaffles]

Can someone explain all the anime references people are using to bash the movie? I literally have no idea wtf half y'all are talking about. I mean every other page there seem to be some kind of Dragon Ball reference like Palpatine throwing out lightning like inset x anime reference character here? At least compare Rey to Eva 01 so the average non anime fan can track what you're saying. It's like my dad using golf metaphors or Hogan's heroes in everyday speech and expecting anyone knows what he's talking about.

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Alot of anime have a situation where a good-hearted woman has a romantic act with a semi-reformed but still very much a piece of shit man who used to be/may still be a mass murderer. See: Sasuke, Vegeta, etc.

Also I don't even watch Eva 01 and I'm not even big on anime lmao.

 

[Deleted member 2229]

Can someone explain all the anime references people are using to bash the movie? I literally have no idea wtf half y'all are talking about. I mean every other page there seem to be some kind of Dragon Ball reference like Palpatine throwing out lightning like inset x anime reference character here? At least compare Rey to Eva 01 so the average non anime fan can track what you're saying. It's like my dad using golf metaphors or Hogan's heroes in everyday speech and expecting anyone knows what he's talking about.

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In what world is Dragonball more obscure than Evangelion.

 

[Halbrand]

The VFX looked just as good as every other SW movie to me. Nothing about the movie looked cheap or rushed from a VFX standpoint

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Agreed. The VFX continues to be better than in MCU movies.

 

[low-G]

And yeah if you're gonna go this whole palpatine arc I think it was just a wasted opportunity to not have Rey take the sith throne (with a believable path to her actually wanting to take it and not being forced into it) and then have Kylo redeem himself by talking her down. You could also throw Jedi Finn in there too.

like I actually like the whole concept of the sith throne and sith followers. Like if you're gonna introduce that you should have either Kylo or Rey actually take the throne.

like a cool alternative there would be Kylo being cast out of the first order but then him finding out about the sith planet and taking the throne. so that's a cool wildcard Kylo possibility. Like JJ was actually on this track and it was cool and then it was like nope he's gonna just join the emperor when he should have killed him like his original plan.

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Imagine if at the end of Lord of the Rings Frodo just throws the ring in the volcano. That's this movie. Utterly witless. Making Dragon Ball Z look heady.

 

[ThisThingIsUseful]

If Ben was going to be redeemed in the second act, who was going to be the big bad in the third act?

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Kylo was in prime shape to be the big bad in this movie. He killed his father in 4 and became Supreme Leader in 5.

 

[Khanimus]

I'm not deriding that moment. That moment was epic AF.

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I think I'm more bothered that the Knights of Ren felt like some real discount Ringwraiths They're never framed as something worth being afraid of, but the film wants you to be. The fight itself felt pretty weak compared to the staging of the throne room scene in TLJ. The same thing can be said of the emotional stakes. Just... eh.

 

[Ether_Snake]

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TFA and RoS feel like extremely rushed productions, especially on the writing side. TLJ felt like a director was given a blank cheque.

 

[Deleted member 21339]

There's some grand irony in Rey spending her childhood scavenging parts from and living in the machines of war her grandfather built.

I loved that they brought back her scavenging/traversal skills in the DS2 ruins.

Rey's line "No. I don't want this!" to Kylo really hit me the second time

 

[Tragicomedy]

Why did someone in here say that Palpatine was Anakin's dad. Did I miss something?

 

[Jangowuzhere]

The VFX looked just as good as every other SW movie to me. Nothing about the movie looked cheap or rushed from a VFX standpoint

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Nah, my jaw dropped at how bad the Luke ghost looked.

The emperor's throne room really lacks a distinct visual flair. It's a dark dreary room with lightning effects. There had to have been a better way to present that besides...that.

 

[Tragicomedy]

Nah, my jaw dropped at how bad the Luke ghost looked.

The emperor's throne room really lacks a distinct visual flair. It's a dark dreary room with lightning effects. There had to have been a better way to present that besides...that.

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Picture, if you will, the same throne room with Kylo Ren sitting on the throne. And no Palpatine. Filmed by Rian Johnson, of course.

 

[Khanimus]

Why did someone in here say that Palpatine was Anakin's dad. Did I miss something?

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He "created" Anakin. It's alluded to in ROTS, and then comics outright said it.

 

[matrix-cat]

Hot Take: I get the appeal of Rey Nobody, but all the protagonists in the "skywalker saga" come from important bloodlines, it only makes sense for Rey to follow suit.

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Dealing with the implications of your famous surname is just one among many themes in this saga, and one that most characters don't have anything to do with. Basically just Luke and Ben. Anakin didn't think of himself as coming from an important bloodline. Leia identified as an Organa. Qui Gon, Obi Wan, Padme, Han, Lando, Finn, Poe and Rose all managed to make a difference in the world without having famous parents. Hell, Sheev is a self-made man; 'Palpatine' wasn't an important name until he made it one.

Rey being a Palpatine is solely a result of JJ Abrams' embarrassing need to recreate all his favourite Star Wars scenes. He needed his "I am your father" moment and didn't care what he had to step on or retcon to make it happen.

 

[low-G]

Sure, go for it! It's how I described it to my friend after leaving the theater this morning! It really doesn't feel like it shit on TLJ any more than TLJ "shat" on TFA. It felt like a blending of both, for better or worse. Johnson took the threads set up by JJ and put his spin on them, and JJ took the threads set up by RJ and put his spin on them. Sometimes it worked (the Force connection), and sometimes it didn't (the kiss between Rey and Kylo was just ick for me).

My theater yesterday loved the movie. They cheered, they gasped, and they applauded when the credits rolled. My theater at our company screening was a little more subdued, but they still cheered at certain points, and applauded at the end of the movie. Especially when Rey said her name was "Rey Skywalker."

Overall, I think audiences are enjoying the film. It's fun, it's light, and I feel like, if there is anything you can say that it does contrary to TLJ, it's that it isn't as subtle in its message and themes by comparison. Considering how people still think the message of TLJ was "let the past die," I can understand why they went so heavy handed with the messaging in this film.

It's a very easily digestible film. I guess I'm also not in the camp that treats "crowdpleasing" like it's a bad thing. There's nothing wrong with audiences enjoying something. Sometimes it wreaks of gatekeeping superiority when I see comments like "well, I guess the normies will enjoy it."

The Last Jedi wasn't even that deep, but it definitely had varying layers of complexity. Doesn't make me a scholar for appreciating it, or those that don't mind just sitting back and letting a movie entertain them with its silliness or absurd elements.

A movie that allows characters to breach space time to pass objects to one another doesn't suddenly destroy my suspension of disbelief when cosmic coincidences or "well, that was convenient" moments happen.

I'm looking forward to seeing it a third time at some point over the holiday break for sure.

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The movie is basically the Trump speech of movies. Full of non sequiturs. They keep throwing the nonsense, the absurdity, at the viewer until the dimwitted accept it. The movie doesn't actually say anything. But a bunch of idiots will have the wool pulled over their eyes.

 

[Shrennin]

Why did someone in here say that Palpatine was Anakin's dad. Did I miss something?

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I didn't see that comment, but in the lore didn't he manipulate the midichlorians to create Anakin? I guess in that sense he was Anakin's dad.

 

[MrMephistoX]

I'm trying to phrase it in a way that makes sense:

The Emperor was the Big Bad, yet he didn't feel as if he was. He was giving commands to the Final Order, but he came out of bloody nowhere. Even at the end when he's telling the Final Order to not succumb to the Resistance's attacks and shot lightning at the sky, I felt as if he was peripheral to the First/Final Order because there was no mention of him controlling anything for the past two movies.

It was a weird feeling. Snoke felt in control in 7 and 8, we knew there was an Emperor in 4 and saw a glimpse of him in 5, and we saw him controlling things in the prequels. Here, he just comes back, and thus his position as the main antagonist is underwhelming despite how creepy he looks and how powerful he is in this.



Qui-Gon didn't. It was really mostly Vader-Luke-Leia, with the antagonist of this one being related to Han.

The issue is that JJ Abrams seems to think bloodlines are cool because they're in Star Wars, when things are cool because they're cool and earned. Vader was not originally planned to be Luke's father, but his reveal as being his father subverted all expectations (sounds familiar!) for Luke and the audience. And there was a payoff to it, a huge, phenomenal payoff. Rey finding a place in this story on her own is more interesting than somehow being Palpatine's granddaughter.

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Before TLJ it was pretty damn obvious Rey was someone. I like what RJ did and it could have been interesting but the point of Rey's arc is that she chose this family. She maintains "just Rey" all the way through the entire trilogy even once when asked in this film.

 

[Nordic4tKnight]

He "created" Anakin. It's alluded to in ROTS, and then comics outright said it.

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Wait, what? Is that 100% cannon?

 

[Sordid Plebeian]

Is it just me or did that desert speeder scene strike anyone as a poor man's version of this?

 

[Deleted member 2229]

Nah, my jaw dropped at how bad the Luke ghost looked.

The emperor's throne room really lacks a distinct visual flair. It's a dark dreary room with lightning effects. There had to have been a better way to present that besides...that.

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The throne itself as well as the emperor's outfit was from an old McQuarie design from ROTJ but instead of it just being in some dark cave, it was a dark cave with lava. They should've done that instead.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Why did someone in here say that Palpatine was Anakin's dad. Did I miss something?

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In a canon comic it's implied that Anakin is the result of Palpatine meddling with the force. Hence the irony of him being killed by Anakin and not....his own granddaughter, which directly implies that someone as evil as Palpatine was at some point horny, and had sex, and was like, totally ok with that until his son had a force sensitive daughter.

 

[Neo Ankh]

The whole point is to get away from that incestuous storyline thinking, SW doesn't have to be the same goddamn thing over and over and over again. You can expand, you can be different and still be just as important and relevant as the royals.

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That is what Rian Johnson was trying to say with TLJ. Unfortunately it seems like with TROS we have Disney and JJ saying no it actually does have to be the same goddamn thing over and over and over again.

 

[Deleted member 21339]

d

Nah, my jaw dropped at how bad the Luke ghost looked.

The emperor's throne room really lacks a distinct visual flair. It's a dark dreary room with lightning effects. There had to have been a better way to present that besides...that.

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Ok so you can point to one scene that didn't look up to par? The rest of the effects throughout the whole movie looked consistently great and believable.

 

[Halbrand]

The funny thing is, there used to be the debate if it was Plagueis or Palpatine who created Anakin, but now Palpatine kind of is Plagueis.

 

[CommodoreKong]

People keep comparing these scenes, which is fair, but for it to be true, that scene would have had to have been made after endgame which is technically impossible.

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Yeah I'm sure the ship scene was planned before Endgame came out but I totally get the comparison. Endgame built up the characters coming back through the portals over the course of 10 years and 20 movies so it feels great to see them coming in to backup Thor, Ironman and Captain America. They also spent pretty much the entire movie trying to bring back these characters from the snap. Rise of the Skywalker just throws us a bunch of generic ships we've never seen before. Lando briefly mentions he's going to go get help and that's it. It's amazing how much better Endgame did it than Rise of the Skywalker.

 

[Zeno]

In a canon comic it's implied that Anakin is the result of Palpatine meddling with the force.

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[Proven]

The Lighthouse is a literal modern masterpiece though, this is corporate schlock

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Well the light house is an incredible movie, and this one was good and filled my fan service needs

 

[Khanimus]

Wait, what? Is that 100% cannon?

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He literally talks about Darth Plagius the Wise (have you ever heard the tragedy btw?) having learned to alter the midichlorians to "create life!" He says this as he looks over longingly to Anakin, as the two sit and watch an opera with gigantic sperm-and-egg imagery. Anakin was also born with no father.

 

[Deleted member 13798]

Nah, my jaw dropped at how bad the Luke ghost looked.

The emperor's throne room really lacks a distinct visual flair. It's a dark dreary room with lightning effects. There had to have been a better way to present that besides...that.

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I agree about Luke looking weird and kinda cheap, but the Exegol throne room stuff I thought was really interesting visually. Simplistic but I think that helped it. Had a weird vibe of almost Lovecraftian atmosphere to it with the tech and stone mix.

 

[Fj0823]

In a canon comic it's implied that Anakin is the result of Palpatine meddling with the force.

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That comic is showing Vader his greatest fears. Not to be taken literally

 

[Nordic4tKnight]

So who were all the people chanting? Sith fans looking for a good show?

 

[Khanimus]

The funny thing is, there used to be the debate if it was Plagueis or Palpatine who created Anakin, but now Palpatine kind of is Plagueis.

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I mean Palpatine kinda mocks Plagueis' death, so he presumably learned his secrets and has lived far far longer than people assumed.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Back.

Well I enjoyed it quite a bit more in the second viewing. The pace isn't a problem when you know what's going to happen and you can absorb all the conversation and dialogue and really take everything in. A lot of things went over better this time.

I think those of us who were disappointed may find it better the second time around too. I'm glad I went to see it again. If you're willing to look past some of the silly stuff like JJs penchant for putting 20x more bad guys and bad ships on screen just to make the point that there is a big threat and the fact that there are just some things that the characters decide to do that we might prefer they didn'tthings are just really fun.

I give it an 8.75/10.

Occasional warts and all, I will really miss this cast. The bond and chemistry the leads had with each other was clear and amazing. I had a ton of fun getting to know their characters and their performances were the best Star Wars fans could have asked for. The action was godlike in every film and JJ + Rian gave us the best set pieces and saber fights we've ever had in live action. There are moments in all 3 movies that were great enough to join very the best scenes from the OT in my memories what of Star Wars something special.

Star Wars holds a special place for me as an old-head fan, so as one who was so disappointed with the prequels that I never saw them again after seeing them in the theaters, I appreciate the love and passion put into the ST by their teams, actors and directors. In their own ways, the same love for the franchise and what it meant to them showed through. That's all anyone can ask.

I hope the next trilogy can compare. And again, I hope those if you who were also disappointed with their initial viewing enjoy it next time around.

My new, personal live-action Star Wars ranking:

ANH ~ ESB
TLJ
TRoS
RO
RoTJ
The Mandalorian
Solo

(((The blue milk stuck on Luke's beard)))

(((Cats)))


The Prequels

 

[ClickyCal']

TFA and RoS feel like extremely rushed productions, especially on the writing side. TLJ felt like a director was given a blank cheque.

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Yep, that's jj abrams.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

Ok so you can point to one scene that didn't look up to par? The rest of the effects throughout the whole movie looked consistently great and believable.

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But that's the climax of the film man. That's not just "one" scene.

And again, I'm just giving you an example. I don't think anything in TROS reaches the artistic craft of TLJ. It's pretty obvious by how often they recycle visuals and imagery from the original films.

 

[Tragicomedy]

In a canon comic it's implied that Anakin is the result of Palpatine meddling with the force. Hence the irony of him being killed by Anakin and not....his own granddaughter, which directly implies that someone as evil as Palpatine was at some point horny, and had sex, and was like, totally ok with that until his son had a force sensitive daughter.

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She's already pregnant in that first image.

 

[Einchy]

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I've read the comic, I don't know what else it could mean.

Also, we know for a fact George wanted to outright explain this but then opted out to just imply it in the final film.

 

[DrForester]

My rankings...


Empire Strikes Back
The Last Jedi
A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One
The Rise of Skywalker
The Force Awakens
Solo
The Holiday Special
The Phantom Menace
Revenge Of The Sith
Literally any fan film
Attack Of The Clones

 

[Tragicomedy]

My new, personal live-action Star Wars ranking:

ANH ~ ESB
TLJ
TRoS
RO
RoTJ
The Mandalorian
Solo

(((The blue milk stuck on Luke's beard)))

(((Cats)))

The Prequels

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Move ESB above ANH, and our lists are the same.

 

[Deleted member 2229]

So who were all the people chanting? Sith fans looking for a good show?

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Pretty much. They were palps "believers" waiting for his return.

 

[Sordid Plebeian]

Who wants to bet that Rey is going to be pregnant with Ben's life force in some shitty Marvel comic? Any takers? Who thinks Episode X will be a modern retelling of Oedipus?

 

[Zeno]

I've read the comic, I don't know what else it could mean.

Also, we know for a fact George wanted to outright explain this but then opted out to just imply it in the final film.

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I haven't read the comic, so you have more context for that than I do.

 

[Deleted member 32822]

Nah, my jaw dropped at how bad the Luke ghost looked.

The emperor's throne room really lacks a distinct visual flair. It's a dark dreary room with lightning effects. There had to have been a better way to present that besides...that.

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He looked bad because of the wig they used and the oversized cape.

 

[Deleted member 21339]

But that's the climax of the film man. That's not just "one" scene.

And again, I'm just giving you an example. I don't think anything in TROS reaches the artistic craft of TLJ. It's pretty obvious by how often they recycle visuals and imagery from the original films.

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What the hell are you talking about? I'm taking about Luke's force ghost effect. The climax of the movie looked great. The space battle effects and everything happening in the throne room. If you didn't like the aesthetics and design choice that's one thing but the actual quality of the visual effects is not in question. They were just as good as anything you get in these movies. Nothing looked bad or not polished

 

[MrMephistoX]

That is what Rian Johnson was trying to say with TLJ. Unfortunately it seems like with TROS we have Disney and JJ saying no it actually does have to be the same goddamn thing over and over and over again.

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It's basically just that Star Wars without the empire is fundamentally less interesting like Indiana Jones without Nazis. Even the video game series always have the same problem. That's why I'm way more interested in what they build on D+. Skywalker blood is artificial it's gone now and the galaxy can move on. The best thing they can do is do a series of one offs with new characters or get Daisy in D+ and bring the band together like Marvel in a setting 100 years from now or just stop making films and focus on TV to build up a storyline...only reason Marvel works is because it has 80 years of content to draw on.

 

[Khanimus]

I've read the comic, I don't know what else it could mean.

Also, we know for a fact George wanted to outright explain this but then opted out to just imply it in the final film.

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They've also changed the notion that Anakin was 'the chosen one' to Luke being the one according to Kenobi. He's the one that convinces Vader to stop the Emperor.

 

[Deleted member 32822]

Who wants to bet that Rey is going to be pregnant with Ben's life force in some shitty Marvel comic? Any takers? Who thinks Episode X will be a modern retelling of Oedipus?

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I want Episode X to be a rip-off of Final Fantasy X-2.

 

[NookSports]

That was one of the oddest movie experiences I've ever had. It felt like a good wookiepedia movie. You'll read a summary of RoS 5 years from now and go "oh yeah, that was kinda cool."

Literally, for the first hour of the film I felt like I was watching a direct to DVD film sequel.

The script is fucking dumb.

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It felt like I was watching a whole season of a Netflix show on fast forward for the first hour. And they made the wrong choice of having Rey and Poe kinda hate each other. They've never interacted before, so if you're gonna make up a dynamic, don't make it "awkward and snippy."


If the first hour of the movie was a Netflix show, Knights of Ren were the shitty cliffhangers for a big bad in the finale that they didn't have the budget

Kylo was in prime shape to be the big bad in this movie. He killed his father in 4 and became Supreme Leader in 5.

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Picture, if you will, the same throne room with Kylo Ren sitting on the throne. And no Palpatine. Filmed by Rian Johnson, of course.

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The movie could've gone like this... Supreme Leader Kylo Ren finds ruling disappointing and still depressing, so he sets his sights on even more power, daddy issues with Han and Vader etc... that's how he finds the Sith planet, and in trying to get more power, has Palpatine (and "all of the Sith") possess him or something.
Then the rest of the movie is Kylo's monstruo is actions and Rey's attempt to exorcise him, turn him back and keep him alive.

 

[Deleted member 2229]

Who wants to bet that Rey is going to be pregnant with Ben's life force in some shitty Marvel comic? Any takers? Who thinks Episode X will be a modern retelling of Oedipus?

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Im not sure I ever want to see an episode 10,11 or 12.

But maybe it can do what the ST should've done and create a new state of the world and story that isn't bookended by lazy nostalgia rehashes.

But it could end up being exactly that.

 

[AliceAmber]

God, the story of Rose Tico:

- Devastated when her sister dies, she nevertheless spends the morning zapping deserters because she never loses her hope and faith in the Resistance
- Gets called up to the big leagues when she meets Resistance heroes Finn and Poe and works out how the First Order is tracking them
- Takes Finn on a tour of late stage capitalist depravity, fostering class consciousness in him and turning him into a true socialist. I mean Rebel.
- Risks her life to save Finn and stop him from making a pointless sacrifice
- Is one of the only surviving Resistance members

*A year passes*

- Straight back to being a mechanic, turns a wrench for the entire first two acts
- Dry, work colleague rapport with Finn in her four spoken lines
- Just allows him to sacrifice himself this time, but it's OK he lived
- Never even meets Rey. Not included in the group hug. Forty cumulative seconds of screen time if that

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This is my main frustration from the movie. Rose you were done dirty.