• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Oct 27, 2017
6,302
Just came back from my viewing. Palpatine was really shoehorned in. No mentioning or build-up in the two previous movies, and now he's suddenly the big baddie again?

I mean, I take every second of Ian McDiarmid I can get because he's awesome, but his appearance here feels unearned somehow.

My main two takeaways from the reviews, having now seen the film, are the comparisons to bad videogame writing and that this could probably have been two much better paced films.

Even though I knew Palpatine was in this, the way the film just farts it out in the audiences face with the text scrawl and opening 5 minutes is jarring and ridiculous. Dead Palpatine looked great and should have been terrifying, but this films execution and writing made it all feel throwaway and pointless.
 

TheXbox

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,557
Ended up watching the intro to Rey in Force Awakens. It's like it's directed by someone else entirely.

This is why I'm not sure it's even worth arguing over plot details and narrative choices in TROS. TFA is shot and cut like a Star Wars movie and TROS is not. You just cannot overstate how bad the editing is in TROS. Perhaps the worst example is the prologue with Kylo and his quest to find Palpatine; a hazy, bewildering montage of a dozen different setpieces and revelations crammed into the space of four minutes. The rest of the film is hardly any better. Characters, planets, McGuffins come and go, set pieces drive the plot, and characters speak to each other in exposition. And they speak a lot. They never fucking shut up.

There's one line of dialogue in that scene you posted, but it probably tells us more about a single character than TROS achieves in its entire runtime.
 

Jangowuzhere

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,505
JJ could've told any story he wanted after TLJ. He just went the laziest route with it.
This

Fuck anyone who thinks that TLJ wrote Star Wars into a hole and that there was no set up for a third film. That movie opened up ENDLESS possibilities for a third film. JJ took the most boring and safest route despite being able to do whatever he could.
 

sonicmj1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
680
That scene where Force Luke catches the saber and tells Rey that a jedi should take proper care of their tools was such a slap in the fast of Rian that I actually did a double take. It was just so blatant I couldn't believe it. Like how unprofessional. What a fucking clown.
At some post-screening event JJ made a comment about this that I agree with.

Luke tossing the saber in TLJ made sense with where he was at the start of that movie. He hated the Jedi and how they had failed and what they had done. By the end of the movie, after his conversation with Yoda and his sacrifice, he's gotten more perspective on things and appreciates what the Jedi stood for even if they had made mistakes in the past. It makes sense he'd feel differently in TRoS.

That said, I didn't like this movie very much. There's a lot I can point to, plenty of post-watching holes in the writing and events (and certainly granddaughter of Palpatine + grandson of Skywalker teamup was not a plot direction I was looking for), but the biggest thing for me is the sense that the movie was more interested in hitting certain iconography than in conveying any sort of meaning. It's overstuffed full of sets and action sequences, but it doesn't seem to care how it arrives at those places, meaning each plot revelation, each supposed sacrifice (almost all of which were later reversed), lacked any real weight for me. The Force turns into a bunch of power level battles and nobody has time to exist and talk and establish themselves. TLJ thrilled me in a way this movie never came close to doing, and TFA was a much cleaner popcorn joyride through nostalgic memories.

The movie has its moments, but giving those moments their proper delivery would require cutting out massive chunks of the first half and its ping-ponging MacGuffin fetch-quest. As it is, it's my least favorite Star Wars thing since the prequels, and RotS may be better.
 
Last edited:
Feb 4, 2018
1,683
This

Fuck anyone who thinks that TLJ wrote Star Wars into a hole and that there was no set up for a third film. That movie opened up ENDLESS possibilities for a third film. JJ took the most boring and safest route despite being able to do whatever he could.

If Ben was going to be redeemed in the second act, who was going to be the big bad in the third act?
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,435
How is JJ sidelining Rose any different than Rian separating JJ's characters? Both of them are big FUs.
I mean Phasma didn't do much in TFA to be fair, and Snoke even though he got killed had a really cool scene. Maybe you didn't like Finn failing to get the hacker. but he still had a role and a new dynamic with Rose and DJ.
 

SilentMike03

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,080
I don't mind that scene, Luke is more at peace and trying to be inspiring, as one with the force.

Still trying retcon the 'you're nothing, you come from nothing" and Rey's having to overcome this fear, to accept this trauma of abandonment was well... what more can be said? I know the villain said that but it had a point in the story.
I can understand that, but that's not the tone I got from it. All it was missing was Luke looking directly into the camera as he said it. There's a way to do that scene, but it's not the one we got.
 

Miracle Ache

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,206
Kylo should've been like Azula at the end of Avatar: The Last Airbender. Having a complete mental breakdown. But Instead he became a poor man's Zuko.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
How is JJ sidelining Rose any different than Rian separating JJ's characters? Both of them are big FUs.
JJ separated those characters in TFA.

And it's not about the separation but rather the screentime. Rey, Finn and Poe got a shit ton of screentime in TLJ and they all had their own storylines with their own arcs.
 

takriel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,221
Curious about this. I HATED The Last Jedi after my opening night viewing. Truly. I was so dismayed. I'm now a convert and really rather like it. There was plenty in TROS that I did like but that first viewing was rough. The pacing was crazy. Funnily enough I remember the same with TFA. I think it's just the cinema experience being rather overwhelming compared to watching on Blu-ray on your own time. Maybe, just maybe, my disappointment with TROS will subside and I can enjoy it. At the very least Buba Frik was amazing.
I followed along just nicely on my second viewing. Basically I liked everything about it save for the Rey and Leia scenes (felt off), the final space battle (too much action), and the way Rey killed off Palpatine. Everything else worked for me. Perhaps Chewie should'ce stayed dead.
 

Gunslinger

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,401
How is JJ sidelining Rose any different than Rian separating JJ's characters? Both of them are big FUs.
RJ: i see what you trying to do JJ but nah imma set up the story again in my way a
JJ: Nah fuck your changes RJ imma re set up and conclude the story again.
basically TFA set up a universe, the. Instead of following it RJ set up his own shit. And two out of three movies wasted on setup. Chris Stuckmann review says this and i agree with him completely.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,327
If Palpatine absolutely had to be tied into the prequel trilogy and Kylo had to be redeemed, here's what I would have done.

1) Skip further than a year. Make it 5 years or so. Kylo has built up his force of dark side users to buff up his army. Show him as still chaotic but functional as a mentor/teacher. Rey has tried a group of force users for the resistance. Leia helped in the beginning but passed away during the time skip. Hux as a high ranking military officer knew of truths about the First Order that only Snoke and other similarly ranked officers knew Palpatine was alive. The high ranking officers had guesses that Palpatine was in some way responsible. During the time skip, Palpatine reaches our to the high ranking officers to send resources to build up a secret group of loyalists to him.
2) midway through the movie, we have a big fight with the order winning. Palpatine makes his reveal to Kylo and Rey as the force users are battling. The resistance retreats since they only sent a small fleet. As the resistance is fleeing, Palpatine orders the First Order military to fire on Kylo and his group. Rey senses Kylo is in trouble and goes to aid him even though an enemy. Kylo is the sole survivor of dark side users and badly wounded. They retreat.
3) Ahead of the climax, it's revealed Lando had been on a mission to bolster resistance forces further. While they had gotten more resources in the time skip, it was enough for a revived Imperial fleet. In the mean time, Rey and Kylo are healing from the battle and Kylo trains with Rey and her students. Rey and Kylo realize they still have their force bond and their powers are amplified by that bond.
4) final battle. The Resistiance fleet takes the imperial military. Rey, Kylo, and Rey's students take on the Knights of Ren and Palpatine. Rey and Kylo are winning against the emperor. KoR have been defeated. As a last ditch effort to distract Kylo and Rey, Palpatine attacks Rey's students who are suddenly protected by Kylo. Rey and Kylo's force bond power activates. while Kylo still suffered wounds, he takes the electricity that damaged him and being amplified by Rey and Kylo's bond it does enough to destroy the emperor once and for all. Rey and Kylo do not win via saber or offensive force powers, they win through Kylo's sacrifice. Kylo dies. He wonders how things would have turned out if he joined Rey in the Last Jedi. He regrets killing his father, and he regrets turning on his master. Rey says she'll take on the name Skywalker to honor their former master. The end.

you get all the fan service without trashing the Skywalker line. You get Palpatine without McGuffins. You get Dyad powers. You get Kylo's redemption. You get a new generation of force users. And if you really want to tie it up nicely, you can have Finn ask Rey to train him at the end.
 

Sweeney Swift

User Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,743
#IStandWithTaylor
I don't even know if this should be considered a film, just a slideshow of images and references people recognize with some action to hold together a story that could have been written on a napkin at Denny's

Agreed completely. It wasn't even a complete one, you need a book to finish knowing what even happened scene to scene in some cases (first scene and penultimate scene)



Easily the worst of the series for me. I binged it all this week, and never will again. Phantom Menace deserved a second chance, this cowardice will never get that much from me

The cast, the crew, Rian, especially Kelly Tran, and the fans all deserved better

With more money than God at their disposal to work with, hard to say I've ever seen anything felt so cheap and afraid to take a single risk
 

piratepwnsninja

Lead Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
3,811
Ochi is a "Jedi hunter"/Sith loyalist who Sheev, who must have been alive since at least 15 ABY or so, sent out to capture his granddaughter. He found Rey's parents on Jakku but they sold (!!) their daughter to Unkar Plutt to protect her, then he captured them and took off in his ship (even though Rey was standing RIGHT THERE YELLING AT THE SHIP TO COME BACK). When he couldn't get the parents to speak about Rey's whereabouts, he killed them with his ceremonial dagger, which he had specifically carved to visually demonstrate the location of Sheev's Wayfinder within the wreckage of the Death Star if you hold the dagger up at a certain angle and stand on a certain spot of land. For some reason. He also inscribed on the dagger in the Sith runes the coordinates to find the DSII pieces. He then went to Pasaana, for some reason, and Luke and Lando were chasing him presumably because he's a Jedi hunter and he knew the way to Exegol, which they wanted to find for reasons, but he died when he stepped into quicksand outside his parked ship and got eaten by a snake.

More like Ceremonial Swiss Army Knife
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
My main two takeaways from the reviews, having now seen the film, are the comparisons to bad videogame writing and that this could probably have been two much better paced films.

Even though I knew Palpatine was in this, the way the film just farts it out in the audiences face with the text scrawl and opening 5 minutes is jarring and ridiculous. Dead Palpatine looked great and should have been terrifying, but this films execution and writing made it all feel throwaway and pointless.
I don't understand why it needed to be in the opening crawl at all. Honestly I felt the opening crawl was kinda useless in this one. Should have just opened with Kylo killing the peeps then the audience's introduction to him would have been his really great introduction to Kylo with Exogol and all the robed Sith people keeping this husk of a man alive
 
Feb 4, 2018
1,683
ESB separated Luke from Leia and Han. That's normal in this type of story, the hero has to go on a lonely journey of self discovery at some point.

Rey being separated makes a ton of sense and is really the only TLJ storyline that works. I'm just wondering why Rian thought he had to pair off Finn and Poe with really awful storylines. Dude didn't know what to do with them.

Yes, Luke is separated from Leia and Han but you gotta admit Leia, Han and Chewie together is a potent mix.

Finn and Poe should've had something similar and then met Rey halfway through.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Like does the opening crawl explain anything that isn't shown within the first 10 minutes of the movie?
 

Zeno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,150
Why did Ben have to be redeemed in the second act? Why did he have to be redeemed? The thing about having endless possibilities is that, well, they're endless.
If there's one thing it seems that all the writers/directors agreed on in this trilogy, it's that Ben should get redeemed.
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
Rey being separated makes a ton of sense and is really the only TLJ storyline that works. I'm just wondering why Rian thought he had to pair off Finn and Poe with really awful storylines. Dude didn't know what to do with them.

Yes, Luke is separated from Leia and Han but you gotta admit Leia, Han and Chewie together is a potent mix.

Finn and Poe should've had something similar and then met Rey halfway through.

So you think RJ showed the middle finger to JJ, because...he didn't write the script you wanted and took the development of these character to places you didn't feel satisfying?
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,373
The writing of this movie reminded me of when in school I had to shit out a paper I didn't care about the night before and upon reviewing, realized it barely resembled the essay's prompt so I would throw in a line or two at the beginning and end of each paragraph to give it the illusion of actually having some purpose. The set ups were so painfully obvious and shoehorned in I wanted to vomit.
 
Feb 4, 2018
1,683
I mean Phasma didn't do much in TFA to be fair, and Snoke even though he got killed had a really cool scene. Maybe you didn't like Finn failing to get the hacker. but he still had a role and a new dynamic with Rose and DJ.

del Toro was wasted! DJ was such a bad character. How in the world is Rose and DJ comparable to the original trio?
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
If there's one thing it seems that all the writers/directors agreed on in this trilogy, it's that Ben should get redeemed.
I have no issue with Ben being redeemed, I'm pointing out that what the user is saying makes no sense. The conversation is about how TLJ set a stage where JJ could've done anything he wanted and that user literally said, "If Ben was going to be redeemed in the second act, who was going to be the big bad in the third act?"

Why did Ben have to be redeemed in the second act? The question makes no sense. Like, you HAD to bring back Palpatine because Ben was going to be redeemed in the second act and thus needed to have an antagonist in the third act? Wha?
 

Deleted member 21858

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
716
Chewie is dead. Nah, he is not, gotcha!
C3PO wont remember a thing! Nah, R2D2 has his windows backup ready, gotcha!
Rey shoved a fucking lightsaber on Kylo´s chest! Nah, she can use force healing and save him, gotcha!

Force healing really feels like something from a videogame to restore your HP. Super OP in a movie like that.
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
Who were all the thousands of people that just died at the sith planet? :lol

giphy.gif
 

Zeno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,150
Did you stop watching TLJ 2/3 into it

But when pressed whether he himself thinks Kylo Ren is potentially redeemable, Johnson shrugged and laughed, "Yeah." After all, the last Skywalker who fell to the Dark Side was saved in the end.

"Are you kidding? Vader was worse than Kylo ever was, I think, and Vader got redeemed," Johnson said. "Also, I should just for the record [say] that I'm not involved in the writing of the next movie. I'm an audience member in it, just like you, so when I talk about what's going to happen next it's in the context of, as a fan, what I'm thinking of."
 

residentgrigo

Banned
Oct 30, 2019
3,726
Germany
About Rise of Skywalker Visual Dictionary and Lando´s daughter. That was in the original script but it was rewritten and rewritten and rewritten on set.
The leaks this film had are wild. The production was hell on earth with major firings, last-second hires (like the director), reshoots, multiple endings shot and no time for even security or secrecy.

This film did Lando, who I love, no favores and had a half-white son in Legends btw.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.