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Monster Zero

Member
Nov 5, 2017
5,612
Southern California
It's such a weak move to kill off Ben instead of exploring the ramifications of his redemption. How interesting would it have been to see Punished Ben struggle to find his place in the galaxy post-TROS.

Episode X is probably going to have a new Empire, new Rebellion, some rando in a desert getting awesome force powers and Rey sitting on an island somewhere.

Ben would be thrown in prison for the rest of his life or executed for war crimes. He wouldnt be able to Sasuke his way out of it neither because Rey thinks he is a good guy now.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
The only thing I was confused about was the new (?) rules about physical translocation of permanent objects- especially after TLJ seemed to be clear that they were temporary illusions like Luke's dice. Maybe it's in extended canon?

The dice were just part of Luke's projection, but the ability to pass objects back and forth stems from Ben and Rey's special connection. In TLJ it comes from Snoke bridging them (most obvious example is when Ben's hand gets wet from the rain), hereit seems to be made permanent by them being a "Force Dyad".


emperor was actually less camp and amazing than prior movies although his scheme was ok to a point. Not really sure about the crowds in his arena. Were they sith cadets?

Presumably Sith loyalists like the assassin Ochi who killed Rey's parents.

Anakin gotta be fuming that sheevs granddaughter had thejuice to fix his would be wife. I thought that felt authentic to the force mythology but not sure if it existed elsewhere in extended canon or not.

Force healing was a special skill that only a few had in the old EU, like Barriss Offee. Actual resurrection has only been demonstrated once, as far as I know, and that's when Anakin revived Ahsoka in TCW through the power of the Daughter on Mortis, who is basically a Force goddess. But his mind got wiped so he wouldn't have remembered that.
 

TheXbox

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,551
Finn's arc in this is amazing and his journey here really should've been his journey in TLJ—growing in the Force and gradually becoming more attuned to everything around him, leading to him starting this movie as a General and a strong force user on his way to being a Jedi.

Poe's transition into the scoundrel of the group is perfect and JJ threads the needle between Poe being charismatic and Poe being an asshole really well, which is definitely not a line RJ threaded at all—Poe's a misogynist asshole in TLJ and RJ's choice to play him against Holdo and Leia was a mistake.

Don't chirp me saying, "...b-b-but Poe had an arc!!" Poe going from an asshole who doesn't listen to an asshole who knows how to lead still makes him an asshole and I'm glad JJ fixed him in TROS.
I'll chirp. Finn and Poe do not have arcs in this movie. They shoot things and they tell jokes and they yell each other's names a lot. No one in this movie has any real development except Rey and Ben. Ben's consists of a single scene and Rey's is a limp rehash of Luke's journey in ROTJ, but they grow. Finn and Poe do not.

I guess peeps got their trio meme, so enjoy it.
 

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,711
Considering the movie doesn't even hint at either of those things....
It's in the visual dictionary where it was also revealed that planet was Mustafar.
This whole thing of not providing any context and relying on the EU as a crutch seems to be a really big JJ thing. You had to read Bloodline to know anything about the backstory/political makeup of the galaxy during TFA and he's done it again with TROS. TLJ had the least amount of this supplemental required reading shit.
 

Deepwater

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
What confuses me are TLJ stans that act like Rey being a nobody and "the force belongs to everyone!" are some kind of ground breaking ideas...lol

Like literally all of theJedi, minus the Skywalkers, were nobodies. Qui Gon, Obi Wan, etc.

Who's presenting it as "groundbreaking"?

The point isn't that "anybody can be anything" is new or original as a thematic concept, the *counterpoint* is that nothing is interesting about Rey being a palpatine (or a skywalker for that matter) as its been presented.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
It might have helped if they showed us anything on the planet that looked like Mustafar.

What gets into JJ's head where he thinks "Great, let's show Mustafar and have Kylo find Vader's Wayfinder!" and NOT show the castle?
Which is especially odd since it's JJ and he has no issue mining nostalgia and other popular movies for the entirety of his work lol
 

Whaleman

Member
Nov 14, 2017
56
I was pretty disappointed with Finn's ending and I felt they almost had it. They should have kept everything the same but when they get back to the jungle planet after the final fight Finn goes over and confirms he has been in a relationship with Rose the whole time. When Rey gets there he reveal that the thing he wanted to tell her is that he is force sensitive. That would have made his arc feel so much better to me.
 

residentgrigo

Banned
Oct 30, 2019
3,726
Germany
It´s a miracle that this movie didn´t end with a Midi-chlorian virgin pregnancy Jiggy. But it still could... Ray is 20 in the film btw. Kylo is 30.

This ain´t gonna end well for the fans but lessons will be earned by all in the end. Something something we burned the forest down speach.
 
Feb 4, 2018
1,683
Went to a 21 and over matinee but some neckbeard insisted on loudly scoffing at how terrible it all was and laughing at anything intended to be serious or poignant- it became apparent he'd already seen it too - when he started his schtick slightly ahead of the moments— so I guess he went twice to own the libs or something?

I eventually got up and told him to cut it the fuck out which he immediately did — but I was irritated and tense for the rest of the film.

What a fucking asshat. Sorry you had to endure that. I'd definitely be on edge if I had someone like that near me.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
He probably didn't expect to be shouted down by a member of Kanji Club.

oh wow I am sorry. I swear I wouldn't have done any of the things I said I would do if you didn't pipe down. But Guavian death gang* don't play around.

* I had to google it


What a fucking asshat. Sorry you had to endure that. I'd definitely be on edge if I had someone like that near me.
He was there on his own and in his mid twenties. WHO DOES THAT!?
 

Jiggy

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,279
wherever
Ben would be thrown in prison for the rest of his life or executed for war crimes. He wouldnt be able to Sasuke his way out of it neither because Rey thinks he is a good guy now.

Why would he turn himself into the Resistance? He'd just go off on his own, like a lone wanderer. Rey would probably tell everyone he died in the battle.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,943
So...was TFA a fluke?
I don't think so. I think JJ Abrams is a competent director, I just don't think he should be writing. TFA kind of needed to be a stock standard Star Wars adventure to prove that Disney could pull it off, and JJ Abrams could reliably do that, and his whole "mystery box" philosophy could give other more creative filmmakers some toys to play around with.

The problem here is that they wanted JJ to

1. Unite an already divided fandom
2. Actually craft a strong ending to a 40 year saga.

Neither of which really play to JJ's strengths. Not to mention any behind-the-scenes feelings over TLJ, which this movie seems to go out of its way to "correct" as much as possible.
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,297
New York
The pathfinders belonging to Vader and Sheev directly make so much more sense and the movie did an atrocious job of conveying that.
 

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,183
Well, yeah it would absolutely make sense, but not if you view RJ as a risk. I think they did, otherwise TROS simply wouldn't have happened. Otherwise we'd know for sure if RJ is involved with SW post TLJ. I'm not saying they were directed to trash RJ's vision, but TROS is clearly a negative response to it via its narratives.

If he won't be involved it's kind of weird that they haven't announced it. They only let a few months go by, at most, after D&D's exit before announcing it. If Johnson is a hard "no" I think they would have said so by now.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
The only logical reason for Operation Cinder at this point is that Sheev wanted to fuck with Vader as a big challenge. "I'm dead, now you have to deal with all this shit."

Except if he anticipated Vader killing him, he probably would have wanted to possess him, so it still makes no sense!
 

Deleted member 2834

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,620
How hot a take is it to say that Kylo Ren is a better antagonist than Vader? More depth and better acting, perhaps less bad-ass but w/e. Not saying he'll be as iconic 30 years down the line, because he clearly won't be, but Kylo's role was very well written by SW standards honestly.
 

gforguava

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,696
I was hoping force ghost Anakin would toss Sheev down that pit.
Considering the general story this movie took it absolutely, 100% needed a substantial Hayden Christensen/Anakin Skywalker scene. I don't know how you could come up with this story about Palpatine being back from the dead, the great manipulator of everything, wrapping up the whole """"Skywalker Saga"""" and yet you don't have Anakin and Kylo/Ben having a head to head conversation.
 

Deepwater

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
How hot a take is it to say that Kylo Ren is a better antagonist than Vader? More depth and better acting, perhaps less bad-ass but w/e. Not saying he'll be as iconic 30 years down the line, because he clearly won't be, but Kylo's role was very well written by SW standards honestly.

At least Vader got the jump on Sheev. Ben doesn't even get that.
 
Dec 22, 2017
7,099
I was pretty disappointed with Finn's ending and I felt they almost had it. They should have kept everything the same but when they get back to the jungle planet after the final fight Finn goes over and confirms he has been in a relationship with Rose the whole time. When Rey gets there he reveal that the thing he wanted to tell her is that he is force sensitive. That would have made his arc feel so much better to me.

 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
I've made a point to follow the Ochi storyline all three times I've seen it and each time I eventually just give up and wonder what got cut. Shit doesn't make sense.

so ochi was sent to deliver Rey to palpatine so she could kill him and he could possess her with the other sith.

reys parents sold her into slavery to hide her.

that dude was palpatine's estranged son I guess?

and ochi failed to find her so he brought the parents who didn't snitch.

and then ochi... wait I think he... um pyramid thing and ... but not the dagger... but then he fell into sandsnek lair and died randomly?
 

8bit

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,390
oh wow I am sorry. I swear I wouldn't have done any of the things I said I would do if you didn't pipe down. But Guavian death gang* don't play around.

* I had to google it

Ah you don't remember the space scotsman in episode 7? It's about the only significant thing i remember of it now.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
So basically a fugitive on the run killing people who rightfully are trying to bring him to justice for his crimes while Rey is a lying piece of shit letting a mass murderer walk freely.
Yeah lmao

The only logical reason for Operation Cinder at this point is that Sheev wanted to fuck with Vader as a big challenge. "I'm dead, now you have to deal with all this shit."

Except if he anticipated Vader killing him, he probably would have wanted to possess him, so it still makes no sense!
"If an Empire cannot protect its Emperor then that Empire must be deemed a failure. It collapses not only because its central figure is gone, but because it must not be allowed to remain!"

Makes sense, except for the fact that the dude was actually building up another fleet and was alive the entire time
 

DarthWalden

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,030
Just got out and I loved it, brought tears of joy when lando showed up with half the galaxy behind him. I thought the end of the kylo/Rey arc was handled perfectly. Kylo Ren's story over all three movies was really good, his internal struggle between light and dark was amazing.

I love how they went the extra mile to sort of explain a lot of the issues people had with the last Jedi.
 

Deleted member 7777

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
681


Luke Skywalker: Who are you?
Rey: I know this place.
Luke: Built a thousand generations ago to keep these. The original Jedi texts. Just like me, they're the last of the Jedi religion. You've seen this place. You've seen this island.
Rey: [whispering] Only in my dreams.
Luke: Who are you?
Rey: The Resistance sent me.
Luke: They sent you? What's special about you? Where are you from?
Rey: Nowhere.
Luke: No one's from nowhere.
Rey: Jakku.
Luke: All right, that is pretty much nowhere. Why are you here, Rey from nowhere?
Rey: The Resistance sent me. We need your help. The First Order has become unstoppable–
Luke: Why are you here?

Just kiddinngggg... knew who you were all along, silly.


Written by JJ Abrams
 
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