• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Oct 25, 2017
10,326
Maybe it's more because we're living in an era where the new music isn't pounded into my head via all the many LucasArts video games, but I can't recall from memory any of the new music other than Rey's Theme.

It's not that John Williams did a bad job so much that I feel like he did a legendary job with the PT and OT. I might even put the music of the PT above the other two trilogies even though the Imperial March slaps.

None of the new stuff doesn't really soar like the older motifs. Resistance theme is too busy to really slap like the Rebel Alliance theme. Other than Rey's theme as a stand out there is too much reliance of medleys in the ST. Doesn't help that there isn't much of a connection between the music and foreground accompaniments. Things like the clanking of the droid start up with the droid army march or Obi's lizard screams echoing into the Order-66 theme.
 
Last edited:

VeryHighlander

The Fallen
May 9, 2018
6,374
Finn is sinking, thinking he's about to die, and his last words are "I am force sensitive!!"

??

I literally just do not believe that.
 

Deleted member 17810

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
303
That's... not what he said. He said if she kills him he'll basically infect her along with all his sith buddies.

I understand. I'm fairly certain I'm correct about this if you look at the saga as a whole.
It's not like if someone accidentally dropped a shipping container on him, than the crane operator would become A SITH LORD!?

I'm not going to say the movie explained things to a T, but it's alright to leave a little room to imagine things as a viewer. I don't this is the kind of thing you can explain as a plot hole.
 

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,615
I'm not sure if it was the intention but I kind of got the feeling that Leia was showing Han to Ben.
 

AlteredBeast

Don't Watch the Tape!
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,760
Just got out of the IMAX showing. It wasn't too bad. Definitely felt like it was a step back from TLJ and the editing had the frenetic feel of a kid who has snorted a line of Pixy Stix.
 

aerie

wonky
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
8,028
Have people talked about the Harrison Ford cameo? It felt like that was supposed to be Carrie Fisher, but her unfortunate passing made that impossible.
It might have been, but Luke does say that Ben is haunted by visions of his father in TLJ. I think this was building on that, and why it felt like more of a repeat of what happened before rather than a new conversation, like could happen with a force ghost. I thought Ford gave one of his better performances in Star Wars for that scene too.
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,296
New York
I actually think the poster is onto something. I think it makes sense as it is, 100%. However having Force Ghost Leia y'all to Ben would have been just as moving.
I think there might have been additional stuff with Leia, like expanding on the scene when she calls his name, but I feel that conversation with Han to some extent always needed to happen in order for the audience to semi buy in on the Kylo/Ben turn.
 

JackRandom

Member
Oct 26, 2017
267
having had some time to let my thoughts on this flick crystalize, i disagree with nearly every decision from a writing standpoint (sheeve, grandrey sheeve, luke's sacrifice in TLJ expressly having zero effect on the galaxy writ large. Lando pulling the largest fleet ever seen out of nowhere in 20 minutes, leia snapping her fingers to turn ben, etc). the movie was still just a lot of fun to watch. It's the embodiment of "turn off your brain and enjoy," and i'm kind of OK with that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
Finn is sinking, thinking he's about to die, and his last words are "I am force sensitive!!"

??

I literally just do not believe that.
Yea, the re-contextualization of that exchange now knowing the intention was for him to tell her that seems....kinda fucking stupid. Like, brutally stupid.

In that sort of situation, the only thing worth telling someone who has been as important to him as Rey has been is something about love. It's just...dumb otherwise.

"I have something to tell you!"

"I left the stove on."
 

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,169
I get that, and I understand that they are never going to overrule the creatives. I just hope to hell there are people within Lucasfilm who saw this trainwreck coming even if they were powerless to stop it. If not the franchise is in big trouble.

Given Pablo evidently gave the movie 2/5 stars I think it's fair to say that everyone at Lucasfilm isn't blind to the final product.

Maybe it's more because we're living in an era where the new music isn't pounded into my head via all the many LucasArts video games, but I can't recall from memory any of the new music other than Rey's Theme.

It's not that John Williams did a bad job so much that I feel like he did a legendary job with the PT and OT. I might even put the music of the PT above the other two trilogies even though the Imperial March slaps.

There is a ton of new thematic material in the films but almost all of it started in TFA. There isn't much in the way of new themes in TLJ or TROS but Williams gives all of the TFA themes (Rey, Kylo, March of the Resistance, etc) a very heavy workout in all three movies.
 

aerie

wonky
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
8,028
My favorite ST theme is Poe's theme honestly. It's so uplifting.



Special mention to Rose's theme too.


These are both great, but I really do love Rey's theme. It just doesn't come out as strong as it should in the films. There is a nice clash of it with another theme, I don't recall right now, in RoS though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,326
Have people talked about the Harrison Ford cameo? It felt like that was supposed to be Carrie Fisher, but her unfortunate passing made that impossible.
Maybe, it's probably why it looks like Ford was pulled of the street and given 10 minutes of hair and makeup lol

It is though one of the emotional moments just works. I hate the idea of Bendemption but that scene sold it so well. Ben chucking the saber just felt so cathartic and triumphant. It's a great scene.
 

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,615
I'm kind of surprised they didn't use de-aged or semi de-aged Luke from the flashback scene for the Force ghost.

swLegacy7.jpg
 

VeryHighlander

The Fallen
May 9, 2018
6,374
Yea, the re-contextualization of that exchange now knowing the intention was for him to tell her that seems....kinda fucking stupid. Like, brutally stupid.

In that sort of situation, the only thing worth telling someone who has been as important to him as Rey has been is something about love. It's just...dumb otherwise.

"I have something to tell you!"

"I left the stove on."
It was 100% "I love you" in my eyes. I won't accept any other explanation
 

JackSwift

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,264
Kylo killed Solo, I think it was always supposed to be a Harrison Ford cameo. That was the point he became Ben again. He says "Dad..." and I assume he wanted to say I'm sorry (rather than the I love you/I know throwback) to which Han says "I know".
 

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,169
That interview with JJ was pretty enlightening. His answer to the lightsaber thing is good. It does make me feel stronger about how Rian made a mistake making that part into a joke though. If one of TLJ's main themes is that Luke's attitude was wrong at the beginning then I don't think the movie did a clear enough job of that and the comedy muddles that message.

I don't know how it's possible to miss this- it's the entire point of one of TLJ's best (and most repeated) lines: "Every word in that sentence was wrong". Luke using it to Kylo at the end of TLJ was him admitting that his attitude earlier in the movie when he met Rey was completely wrong.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
I don't know how it's possible to miss this- it's the entire point of one of TLJ's best (and most repeated) lines: "Every word in that sentence was wrong". Luke using it to Kylo at the end of TLJ was him admitting that his attitude earlier in the movie when he met Rey was completely wrong.
lots of people failed to grasp TLJ. It remains disappointing to me to see such critical concepts missed.
 

PhaZe 5

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,443
I don't know how it's possible to miss this- it's the entire point of one of TLJ's best (and most repeated) lines: "Every word in that sentence was wrong". Luke using it to Kylo at the end of TLJ was him admitting that his attitude earlier in the movie when he met Rey was completely wrong.

Yeah, people saying it was meant to spite Rian is really weird. It's literally the lesson that Rian himself gave Luke, it's Luke making fun of himself, not JJ making fun of Rian.
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,604
I'm not saying the Han/Ben scene didn't work. But Kylo/Ben had confrontations with Han and Luke in previous movies, and didn't really have one with Leia. I merely wonder if the real life passing of Fisher is the reason we got the scene that we got with Han and Ben.
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
I'm kind of surprised they didn't use de-aged or semi de-aged Luke from the flashback scene for the Force ghost.

swLegacy7.jpg
When all the previous Jedi spoke to Rey, I was totally expecting the actors to make visual cameos... but I think they avoided that because they would have had to show Hayden Christensen as Anakin's ghost instead of Sebastian Shaw.
 

JoelStinty

Member
Aug 15, 2019
1,278
Have people talked about the Harrison Ford cameo? It felt like that was supposed to be Carrie Fisher, but her unfortunate passing made that impossible.

It was the scene of the movie for me. Thought it was wonderfully done. And had pretty much everyone in the cinema in tears. I am a sucker for family motifs in films though.

I think that the sequel trilogy has done the original cast well to be honest. I didn';t think they have would much of an impact on the films, but they have, they been the films emotional heart in many ways. Leia and Han as parents, and Luke had a film where he was still learning. They Kylo and Rey stuff has been great, but I think the service the original as cast as got as outshone it.
 

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,615
When all the previous Jedi spoke to Rey, I was totally expecting the actors to make visual cameos... but I think they avoided that because they would have had to show Hayden Christensen as Anakin's ghost instead of Sebastian Shaw.
I still loved the movie, but Hayden's ghost was what I wanted to see the most.

I mean, they should've had him at least with his natural short hair instead of whatever the hell was going on in this movie looking weird as hell.
Yup.
 

Joco

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,446
I'm not saying the Han/Ben scene didn't work. But Kylo/Ben had confrontations with Han and Luke in previous movies, and didn't really have one with Leia. I merely wonder if the real life passing of Fisher is the reason we got the scene that we got with Han and Ben.

I think it probably is. I'm guessing they didn't have enough footage or felt like they couldn't do a good enough job of CGI for Carrie Fisher so they convinced Ford to come back for one last scene.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
Yeah, this seems abundantly clear. I think KK was holding off on any announcements to gauge the reception to TRoS. If it is well received and people want more of these characters, then the next slate would probably be non-saga sequels. However if this thing tanks, which yikes it looks like it very well might, then they probably want to go for a heavier overhaul. It's possible they would still do the former and just want to hold off to avoid spoiling fates of characters, but that seems less likely in prospect. But hey, it's only Saturday so who knows.

They had the original cast this time, now they would have to introduce only new characters as leads and not even use Rey/Finn/Poe to make the bridge if the actors aren't all back.

I think Disney will say screw it, we give up on what we started, we're jumping forward in time with a whole new story and cast built from the ground up to get the Avengers/Marvel-like approach in place with no strings attached.

In that case, I expect them to heavily rely on past characters and story that they could put on the posters/in the trailers to draw people in. They need stuff people will be able to point at and say "I know that!" to put their butts in the seats:

1- C3PO and R2 still present, C3PO being lore-keeper of sorts with R2 his helper.
2- Baby Yoda all grown up, to have another Yoda jedi master in place
3- BB8 still around, since a droid is always a useful bag of tricks, might always go with this one
4- Old grandpa Chewbacca still there, but his kids take his place, might even speak like humans except when speaking to the old wookie
5- Jedi Temple built over Lars' farm where the two light sabers were buried. The two light sabers probably used by the male and female leads, sort of the excaliburs of this story.
6- Millenium falcon still around
7- Some kind of white and black armored enemy soldiers, Tie-Fighter-like spaceships, etc.

Basically, anything they can latch onto without needing the current actors, they will.

I will also say:

They should have brought back Palps as a force ghost trying to come back into the world who was pulling the strings behind the scenes and not physically manifest. It also didn't need the stakes of the big space battle at the end. There were decent ideas in this movie, this just wasn't pulling it off well enough.

I think having Hux and his supporters being led to a dark power in an attempt to retake control of the FO from Kylo and ending up reviving Palpatine accidentally (his spirit taking over Hux) would have allowed for a much more satisfying story. Should have been how the movie started.
 

smisk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,997
That interview with JJ was pretty enlightening. His answer to the lightsaber thing is good. It does make me feel stronger about how Rian made a mistake making that part into a joke though. If one of TLJ's main themes is that Luke's attitude was wrong at the beginning then I don't think the movie did a clear enough job of that and the comedy muddles that message.

Can you link the interview?
 

PhaZe 5

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,443
Lack of Hayden ghost was disappointing, especially given he's aged in such a way that he'd be easily made up to look like a mix between Shaw/Hayden:

GYR109494486_hd.jpg
 

Gravemind IV

Member
Nov 26, 2017
1,948
Same. I hoped they were going to go full Sidious v Maul & Savage with DOTF blasting.

Yup, that's what I was hoping for. Rejuvenated Palpatine with dual sabers vs. Ben and Rey, blast a duel of the fates remix and let us have a great duel to close out the saga.

I kinda wish we had Rey actually using her own saber at one point.

Luke was pulling some sleek moves in that flashback, what I would give to see prime Luke kick some ass. Also makes you wonder if Ben skipped saber training.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
It was 100% "I love you" in my eyes. I won't accept any other explanation
We're stuck with it, my friend. I'm sorry. I'm as disappointed as you are.

If anyone ever in the history of trilogy film making deserved a kiss, it would have been Finn. Man took a light saber stroke to the back from a Sith for her. Woke up out of a coma and his first question wasn't even about where the fuck he was. Mans first question was, "Where's Rey?" FRESH OUT OF A COMA. Mans spent two movies trying to figure out how to save and escape with her. Everyone else could fuck off so long as they were safe together. Mans was ready to lay down his life in an instant for her.

At least he got the best hugs, but the fact that Kylo got a genuine kiss...NAH

Real talk: Find someone that looks at you the way Finn looks at Rey throughout these movies and you'll die a happy person. lol
 

Jindrax

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,454
Just finished it. Absolutely loved it. Don't get why it's reviewing so bad.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
Just finished it. Absolutely loved it. Don't get why it's reviewing so bad.
glad to hear you loved it. I'm hoping I love it in spite of its flaws more on a second viewing.

Zorii Bliss is one of the few highlights of the film. Shame she had like 5 minutes of screentime.
Would have really liked to have seen her in combat or with the helmet off. Is there some lore behind why she always kept that helmet on?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.