I don't know man. there's nothing in the ST that's as offensive to watch as the Anakin/ Padmé romance, Padme's death scene , or the racism throughout the prequels. but I can understand your point . I just think they're better made .
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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker |OT| Revenge of a Sith (SPOILERS NOW OPEN)
- Thread starter MMarston
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I don't know man. there's nothing in the ST that's as offensive to watch as the Anakin/ Padmé romance, Padme's death scene , or the racism throughout the prequels. but I can understand your point . I just think they're better made .
Rey was chosen by the Force as shown in TFA. Whether a Nobody or a Palpatine it doesn't really matter. There is nothing democratized about being a chosen one either way. Rey is special and she gets to be a Chosen One because the Force says so. In that regard no one can become the Chosen One. You either are or you aren't. You also shouldn't want to be a Chosen One either, that means you want power which is Dark Side behavior.
So the idea that if Rey stayed a Nobody it would somehow make the Force accessible to everyone never held any water to me. We have seen a few hundred Jedi over the Saga. In the OT the first Jedi we ever see isn't even a Skywalker. In the PT 99.9% of the Jedi we see are not Skywalkers. The Force has always been democratized. The story of the Skywalkers isn't about power either, it's about redemption. Anakin's the Chosen One not because he's a Skywalker but because his love for his son (and vice versa) allowed for the Light Side to conquer the Dark Side. It's a love conquers all story and The Skywalker Saga is a family story. That's why lineage and legacy is such a big component. When you put all the emphasis on the only worthwhile Jedi being Chosen Ones, then I think you miss the point. There are more "regular" Jedi than Chosen Ones. No need to diminish their worth. It's not even a Chosen One that figures out how to become one with the Force. Regular Jedi are cool.
I would love to see a Star Wars story where someone works hard and trains and takes on the responsibility of the Jedi and goes on to save the day, but The Skywalker Saga was never about that.
Was that implied in the movie though? Information is given so fast that it's hard to remember.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the lightsaber catch, but one aspect of TROS being overlooked by TLJ fans is that JJ's frequent use of ForceTime in this movie means that Rian really did nail that idea in TLJ.
The two worst things about the movie was the lack of Rose (which was a bad choice from every angle) and Rey's parents reveal. With the latter it's even more egregious because it doesn't even matter to the plot. They're making it up as they go, Palps could have possessed any Jedi, it didn't have to be a blood relative, and Rey's turn in the final scene is more poignant if she has no family name anyways.
The movie wasn't terrible, and I don't think it shit on TLJ that much beyond the lack of Rose/Rey reveal (isn't the whole 'passing physical objects through the force thing from RJ?). For how bad I feared it was I can live with it, and I genuinely do want to see what happens to the cast next.
Also, Finn's thing was he's force sensitive, right?
ALSO if Palps really did cause Anakin to get immaculate conceptioned AND was Rey's pop pop does that make Reylo incest?
The movie wasn't terrible, and I don't think it shit on TLJ that much beyond the lack of Rose/Rey reveal (isn't the whole 'passing physical objects through the force thing from RJ?). For how bad I feared it was I can live with it, and I genuinely do want to see what happens to the cast next.
Also, Finn's thing was he's force sensitive, right?
ALSO if Palps really did cause Anakin to get immaculate conceptioned AND was Rey's pop pop does that make Reylo incest?
I have a lot of mixed feelings about the movie, and I can tell that Carrie Fisher's death really impacted the a lot of things about this movie.
The editing was quite bad. A lot of scenes didn't have the dramatic weight they should have had. And everything was such a rush.
I can't remember the last time I saw a movie try so hard to get their audience to like them, and that's saying something.
The editing was quite bad. A lot of scenes didn't have the dramatic weight they should have had. And everything was such a rush.
I can't remember the last time I saw a movie try so hard to get their audience to like them, and that's saying something.
Yep, that's a good point. You'd think the direct descendent of Palpy would be powerful.
JJ's producer mind at work. Just throws ideas into the script, and no matter what the screenwriter complains about JJ just tells him to STFU and write it down.
I wonder if TROS has made Rian bitter towards JJ. His movie can stand alone as it doesn't end on a cliffhanger, but still it must be irritating to see such a petty response to his movie.
People seriously need to stop trying to make this argument because it makes no sense at all. It was that he loved her but they had to remove in reshoots because kylo came out of the ditch and then made out with rey.
Why would he tell rey hes force sensitive a second away from death? That makes literally 0 sense.
What the PT has that this trilogy doesn't is storytelling clarity and a narrative through line that can be tracked from movie 1 to movie 3. Say what you will about George Lucas but he had a clear idea in mind for what he wanted to do with Anakin Skywalker. His turn in ROTS might feel unearned dramatically but you can't say he didn't establish a proper motivation for what made him tick.
Worst line was Luke saying "You're a Palpatine".
It was delivered like he was talking to his daughter who just admitted she ate all the Christmas cookies 20 years ago. "We know. Your mom and I both thought it was cute that you hid the jar under your bed".
By and large I mostly agree with you. I just hate that the ST had to tear down everything from the OT in order to give us the same adventure all over again.
When I was growing up, there were a million shitty Star Wars ripoff movies. Shit like Krull or Ice Pirates. As a kid, you could always immediately clock them as shitty counterfeits made by people who didn't quite get what made Star Wars special.
That's what this felt like. A cynical shadow play.
That's what this felt like. A cynical shadow play.
The weird thing with this movie is despite how negative I am on it and picking out things I didn't like, I did enjoy spending time with these characters... there's a superficial level of enjoyment to be had with it.
Considering they don't explain anything, it's the only logical conclusion as to why he wanted to find Exogul in the first place.
You know what, I'm assuming JJ had him dressed as Doctor Who until someone from Lucasfilm pointed out that it's not actually part of the franchise. The script smacks of a 9 year old high on sugar writing "And then the emperor is alive again! And C3PO is evil! And Mrs Daft Punk gives Poe a special token! And the little guy from Psychonauts is there! And chewie gets exploded! And then Hux dies! And then the Ewoks are there! And Porgs! And Doctor Who turns up! And Richard E. Grant says We accidentally made a Star Wars!"
planning and "vision" coming soon from the Disney corporation. They honestly haven't had that many films and overall media projects, Kennedy is going to put the framework together then retire because everyone is an ungrateful dick.
course correcting from this film will not be hard with the next crop of people and stuff in the pipeline.
Even then, if they removed the resolution in reshoots then why the hell would they keep the setup?
So many bizarre decisions.
I don't think it's so unusual. It's like watching a bad episode of a TV series we really love. Except this is the season finale. Abrams dropping the ball here doesn't invalidate the characters and relationships they have, it just makes it disappointing that he didn't stick the landing for the trilogy.
Only because they watched the entire battle of Crait on Liveleak.
Yes! Sorry, I should have clarified that. According to The Art of The Force Awakens, he turned in a "work-in-progress" draft of Episode VII in August of 2013. Since everyone agrees that he never finished a draft I'm assuming it's unfinished, but I still want to read it lol.
When I watched TFA, the audience were so pumped, got so excited when each of the original heroes shows up, gasped at the ending with Luke unveiled, Absolutely loved the banter between Rey, Han and Finn. A really great reception in the cinema. Even the title card got people excited.
In TLJ, people were laughing at Luke acting weird and a few gasps when Snoke is killed and Luke creates a projection. When Luke walks through Crait, you could tell people were really paying attention.
In IX, dead silence. By the end I noticed some people had fallen asleep.
Just my experience though.
planning and "vision" coming soon from the Disney corporation. They honestly haven't had that many films and overall media projects, Kennedy is going to put the framework together then retire because everyone is an ungrateful dick.
course correcting from this film will not be hard with the next crop of people and stuff in the pipeline.
why do you put "vision" in scare quotes?
I really don't understand people's take on that scene.
Luke throwing the saber away in TLJ was "let the past die" depressed Luke. He was wrong and by the end of the film he understands the Jedi have value and Rey and broom boy and company are going to carry on that mantle and hopefully make it even better.
The scene in ROS isn't good. It's way too brief to have any emotional weight, just like almost everything else in the film, but it doesn't clash with the Last Jedi. If anything it's way too on the nose repeating Luke's lesson from it.
I think when it comes down to it, while I liked a lot of things about TROS (3P0, new planets finally, the finale, the Leia flashback, the evil collector, Lando finally back, Wicket (!!!), Poe/Finn, Kylo dies) the things I didn't like are more memorable (no Rose, bad Rey reveal) even if there are fewer than them, and JJ's directing isn't as engrossing as RJ, George, or any of the other directors to paper over my issues. I'm perfectly fine not liking it and wishing it was better, but thankfully I'm not actively mad at it mostly.
Agreed. The prequels work best because so much of them is new, and their myths/historical nature blend well and are further refined by the Clone Wars cartoon. The ST lacked an identity, but TLJ is at least better than any of the PT, and I imagine a midquel cartoon like Clone Wars could help fix up issues with TROS (mostly the lack of Rose, more Leia, and clarifying Poe's arc).
Agreed. The prequels work best because so much of them is new, and their myths/historical nature blend well and are further refined by the Clone Wars cartoon. The ST lacked an identity, but TLJ is at least better than any of the PT, and I imagine a midquel cartoon like Clone Wars could help fix up issues with TROS (mostly the lack of Rose, more Leia, and clarifying Poe's arc).
So Luke's incredible actions on Crait failed to ignite the spark and motivate systems to join the fight but a group chat from Lando Calrissian does the trick?
My quibble with this is that if you stepped back and made a plan for those 3 films, it would become immediately obvious that Phantom Menace serves no purpose. That movie could be cut entirely and with super minor adjustments, nothing vital to that trilogy would be lost.
No problem. Just wanted to make sure I didn't somehow miss news that he wrote a draft for EP9 haha. I want to read his EP7 draft badly too. But at least TFA turned out being good (and TLJ, for that matter).
You could argue that Sheev's little Fortnite broadcast did more good for the galaxy than Luke's sacrifice.
Because this "vision" argument people have with the MCU is reductive to how film making actually even works. MCU had shitty films and films that just didn't fit into the overall universe, but it was new with not as much scrutiny early on. Tent pole film making takes a ton of people and a lot of moving pieces even with everyone trying to reach the same goal, and projects take time to hit their stride. It's a machine, and that machine wants you to like it.
Good way to put it. Just about every moment was fun or spectacular in some way. But there was often something off or off-putting to counterbalance it. Like the Force was preventing JJ from writing something that was as good as his action and set pieces were because it would have been too much imbalance.
I mean, he had to find something to keep him occupied, besides sitting in evil chairs all day, reposing in thrones, draping his royal person upon luxury furniture, and reclining in Sith themed armchairs.
Sheev's son being a regular ass guy who apparently didn't like his father, and Rey, his granddaughter, turning against him and redeeming Ben, fits perfectly in line with the "let the past die" theme. Palp's own legacy destroyed him because he put so much into it, and into his apprentice, and they both screwed him over in the end.
Rey dying and then Ben giving his life force to her is poetic because he did what Anakin wanted to do so long ago. He saved his loved one from dying. Not by using the dark side of the force, but by returning to the light.
Rey dying and then Ben giving his life force to her is poetic because he did what Anakin wanted to do so long ago. He saved his loved one from dying. Not by using the dark side of the force, but by returning to the light.
No it really doesnt make more sense.
Why would Finn refuse to tell his best friend this but share it with someone he met literally 20 minutes ago, or want to tell Rey this seconds before dying? And if he did want to tell her that before dying why wouldnt he tell Poe this seconds away from dying on the imperial ship?
We know from the leaks reshoots took place that added the rylo romance pretty late in the game. They clearly were angling for Finn to tell Rey he loved her. Telling her hes force sensitive makes literally 0 sense.
I don't think that is weird at all, I'm glad I watched it. I think it's a pretty flawed movie, but I criticize it because I love Star Wars, not because I hate it. I really like a lot of the characters and themes of this franchise, I just think there is a lot of wasted potential in the sequel trilogy. I'll still watch them plenty of times throughout my life.
I really can't believe they did planetary annihilation weapons again.
I can't watch this trilogy again, it will remain a bad fever dream for me.
I'm wondering how challenging it's going to be to drum up interest for the next Star Wars movie. I'm imagining a trailer with new locations, characters, a few lightsabers, and the words coming up on screen "A NEW SAGA BEGINS".....and it's doing nothing for me. People joke about Marvel fatigue every year, but I think JJ has fatigued me big time.
Well, SW is still popular in other mediums like TV and video games, so the brand is still strong, and maybe the utter lack of anything Skywalker related in the inevitable trailer might actually boost interest. I think if they leave a long enough gap of time between TROS and the next mainline movie, it will increase the hype like how everyone got excited at The Force Awakens trailer, rather than constantly releasing movies every few years.
Will we see yet another young character leave a desert planet and destroy a spherical object in the climax? Please I hope not.
I'm wondering how challenging it's going to be to drum up interest for the next Star Wars movie. I'm imagining a trailer with new locations, characters, a few lightsabers, and the words coming up on screen "A NEW SAGA BEGINS".....and it's doing nothing for me. People joke about Marvel fatigue every year, but I think JJ has fatigued me big time.
Well, SW is still popular in other mediums like TV and video games, so the brand is still strong, and maybe the utter lack of anything Skywalker related in the inevitable trailer might actually boost interest. I think if they leave a long enough gap of time between TROS and the next mainline movie, it will increase the hype like how everyone got excited at The Force Awakens trailer, rather than constantly releasing movies every few years.
Will we see yet another young character leave a desert planet and destroy a spherical object in the climax? Please I hope not.
So did Sheev want Rey to rule in his stead or did he want her and Ben to show up so he could suck their power? I'm confused here
It was suppose to be played up as both. I don't have a problem with it
I totally get this. I thought the movie was trash but most of all it made me realize what potential there was for these characters to spend more time together. But I doubt we will get that now.
Also, why didn't he suck out all their life force. He let them live for no reason
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