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Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,254
Sure, that would have been better, but this "I will tempt you to the dark side" was what Luke's conflict was about and I thought of Rey as beyond something as simple. Like, in TLJ, when Kylo Ren was offering his hand, he wasn't offering 'the dark side', he was offering a partnership that she happened to know would be fraught with toxicity, which is a bad thing, but not like in a cosmic sense like being tempted to the dark side, it's just a regular 'do I really want to get in bed (metaphorically) with this person who will help me deal with my loneliness, but put me in a position of abuse'. And I like that better because it's a more real sort of dilemma. You aren't going to have a lot of space wizard nazi's tempting you to kill them so they can inject you with cosmic evil, but...you are going to have some bad relationships, and that's what Rey has to deal with. It's still SW, it's still dramatized, but...it's a step realer, you know?
i am 100% with you on all of that. I was just saying that if JJ had wanted a finale that 'rhymed' with ROTJ and he wanted the kind of "Rey being tempted by the Dark Side" - be it through hatred or fear - Kylo would have been a way better person to focus her rage on.
But they wanted the 'Dark Side' thing and a redemption arc and a Reylo thing, apparently - so they had to bring back Palpatine as the universal plot device. The one who killed her parents, the one who creates a pull to the dark side, the one who's the biggest threat to the resistance and the galaxy, the one who made Snoke.

To quote the a certain set of Prequel reviews:
hqdefault.jpg

PALPATINE'S BEHIND IT ALL. - Literally
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,975
Am I the only one that thinks this scene makes the Leia Force pull in TLJ less silly cause now we know she had some Jedi training.
For sure. It brought a few things full circle since she wasn't just force sensitive, but also there was a reason she walked away from training further for a bigger purpose and Yoda's line about there being another shows that Leia's purpose in balancing the force was important.
 
Oct 3, 2019
837
Really wondering if I should waste the time seeing this tomorrow. I've read the leaks, watched reviews and I'm sure I'll hate it, but weirdly I feel like I'll regret not seeing it in theaters. Like I'm obligated to see it as a Star Wars fan. Maybe that's what Disney is banking on.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,707
i am 100% with you on all of that. I was just saying that if JJ had wanted a finale that 'rhymed' with ROTJ and he wanted the kind of "Rey being tempted by the Dark Side" - be it through hatred or fear - Kylo would have been a way better person to focus her rage on.
But they wanted the 'Dark Side' thing and a redemption arc and a Reylo thing, apparently - so they had to bring back Palpatine as the universal plot device. The one who killed her parents, the one who creates a pull to the dark side, the one who's the biggest threat to the resistance and the galaxy, the one who made Snoke.

To quote the a certain set of Prequel reviews:
hqdefault.jpg

PALPATINE'S BEHIND IT ALL. - Literally
Yeah, makes sense.

I think I haven't posted this much on a movie since, like, bvs.

And I don't even consider myself that big a star wars fan. Man...
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
Someone should have just told Anakin and Obi they could have just force propelled themselves back into the ship instead of worrying about getting sucked out.


Someone also should have reminded them that they can Force push stuff, and Force choke people, and run fast. Why is RoS the first movie where anyone thought to stop a lightsaber blade with the Force? That would have come in really handy in every single scenario where someone was about to get cut.

For that matter, why aren't Force users constantly popping their opponents' joints, pinching nerves, and otherwise manipulating people's innards? I'd sure as hell do that in a life or death situation.

Don't look for Force power consistency in any of these movies.

Even though she is force sensitive is never shown or implied that her powers went beyond feeling or communicating with the force. I didn't have much trouble with that scene in TLJ cause as you mentioned it was a logical evolution and I just put in my headcannon that she had some training with Luke. So having that actually shown in this movie is nice.
I suppose it was a nice touch to show her training, and a nod to RoS's original script where Leia would have used a lightsaber. Pretty sure I read that in an interview.
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,254
Am I the only one that thinks this scene makes the Leia Force pull in TLJ less silly cause now we know she had some Jedi training.
it's kind of sad that we have to be shown that she had Jedi training to make the scene "less silly", though?
Is that not something some of y'all could have simply, you know, imagined? Leia had been described by Luke as "strong with the force" at the end of ROTJ. Are some of y'all unwilling to accept that she learned some tricks in the 30 years between the movies unless you're shown?!
 

Paganmoon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,586
He refuses to tell Poe because Poe doesn't believe in Jedi mumbo jumbo. Earlier in the movie Poe gets mad at Rey for training if you recall.
Poe has loads of respect for Leia, Leia who's training Rey.
Poe saw Luke force project togive them time to escape.
Poe also saw Rey save them all from the tunnel cave in at the end of TLJ.

I
 

Bishop89

What Are Ya' Selling?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,662
Melbourne, Australia
it's kind of sad that we have to be shown that she had Jedi training to make the scene "less silly", though?
Is that not something some of y'all could have simply, you know, imagined? Leia had been described by Luke as "strong with the force" at the end of ROTJ. Are some of y'all unwilling to accept that she learned some tricks in the 30 years between the movies unless you're shown?!
Maybe they should have shown something in tfa to support that.

I never got the impression from the OT that Leia would be interested in anything jedi/force related.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,438
I think Rey's arc in IX, should have not been having to deal with seduction again but her choosing not to confront Kylo Rey, he's the enemy of the resistance as well and she doesn't owe him a confrontation, but he starts using the thrust of the first order to torture and target her friends, and Rey has to confront that the biggest evil in the galaxy is someone who is obsessed with her, and her complex feeling about him must be dealt with. By the time she choose to find him, Kylo is so drunk, and bitter that she feels sorry for him... and there's no big epic confrontation which we've all seen before. We get an emotional denouement. That's just my opinion though. I'm not against different types of stories but this film just felt tiring and too impersonal.
 

Yukari

Member
Mar 28, 2018
11,710
Thailand
Really wondering if I should waste the time seeing this tomorrow. I've read the leaks, watched reviews and I'm sure I'll hate it, but weirdly I feel like I'll regret not seeing it in theaters. Like I'm obligated to see it as a Star Wars fan. Maybe that's what Disney is banking on.

It's fun entertainment movie but have weak plot.
 

TooFriendly

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,028
Some people seem to get really upset or confused as to why the Star Wars movies revolve around the same family or characters, and why they don't take the opportunity to go off and do things that are completely original.

all I can say is that if I was wanting to go and see a completely original movie, I wouldn't be looking for it in movies with the numbers VII, VIII & IX in the title.
 

CKDexterHaven

Member
Nov 26, 2017
497
Really wondering if I should waste the time seeing this tomorrow. I've read the leaks, watched reviews and I'm sure I'll hate it, but weirdly I feel like I'll regret not seeing it in theaters. Like I'm obligated to see it as a Star Wars fan. Maybe that's what Disney is banking on.
I did not like the movie . I still enjoyed watching it .Go see it.
 

R2RD

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 6, 2018
2,785
it's kind of sad that we have to be shown that she had Jedi training to make the scene "less silly", though?
Is that not something some of y'all could have simply, you know, imagined? Leia had been described by Luke as "strong with the force" at the end of ROTJ. Are some of y'all unwilling to accept that she learned some tricks in the 30 years between the movies unless you're shown?!
I had in my headcannon that she had some training with Luke. It's just nice to have that training in the actual cannon and not just my imagination. With the less silly I was mostly referring to people that complained Leia shouldn't have been able to that than myself. As I mentioned in another reply I didn't have much trouble with it.
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,341
It still achieves the same underlying message of TLJ that your bloodline doesn't determine your role or fate. Her Skywalker name is not based on genetic lineage, which means Broom Boy could call himself Skywalker if he wanted to. It's a family name but it's now more of a title, which is what I (and others) expected it to become, especially when the title of this movie was revealed.

Why?
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
Really wondering if I should waste the time seeing this tomorrow. I've read the leaks, watched reviews and I'm sure I'll hate it, but weirdly I feel like I'll regret not seeing it in theaters. Like I'm obligated to see it as a Star Wars fan. Maybe that's what Disney is banking on.
It's not a waste of time. It's a very entertaining movie that drops the ball with its storytelling. It's like a better and very modern version of a prequel film.

RoS is the type of movie that hugely benefits from a large format presentation. Its a popcorn film jammed with insanely over the top spectacle. On that level, it's well done.
 

DeathyBoy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,430
Under my Hela Hela
Framing Rey's conflict as a choice when it's basically just one side telling her to be an evil bastard while the other one is saying "No, don't do that, be a nice person" highlights how fucking asinine this movie is.

In TLJ, we had a conflict between Rey and Kylo Ren where Kylo Ren offered her a partnership, which she rejected. Except, you could see how this was tempting to her because she just got massively disillusioned about the legacy of Luke and Kylo is someone she's made a genuine empathetic connection with while she spent the entire movie alone with grumpy luke who was only a disappointment to her. Kylo Ren's hand, in that circumstance, was something actually tempting because he was offering to be her family, which she desperately wanted. And it's to her credit that she turned that away because she could see that Kylo Ren was still an unhealthy, unstable person who would abuse this power. And there's a lot going on Kylo Ren's front too, but just focusing on Rey....

What the fuck do we have in TRoS? "Granddaughter, take your place as empress palpatine" "What? I don't want a throne. I never did. I'm the Jon Snow in this franchise here." "Grand daughter, strike me down so I can turn into a spirit and take over your body so I can rule from within" "WHY WOULD I WANT TO DO THAT?!" "It's in your blooooood" Litearlly the only reason she even considers it is because she's afraid that Palpatine's forces will kill her friends, but this like this is a false choice since if she does kill him and he takes over, he'll kill or subjegate her friends anyway. And even if she didn't, it's not a choice with internal character drama, it's just "Do what I want or your friends die" coercive threat.

It's genuinely hard to process that anybody, critic of TLJ or not, would regard this as a situation on par with the one set up in the last Jedi. There's no choice here because Rey doesn't want any of this. She doesn't want to be evil, she doesn't want palpatine, she's just a matter of her being strong armed into acquissing to something she doesn't want under threat. Rey's just plainly a good girl whose being told she has to do a bad thing, and the resolution to that is she doesn't because the fleet ends up being able to take care of itself long enough for Rey to kill Palpatine. Her actual character, her wants and desires, they're almost irrelevant except for the fact that she doesn't want to be a fucking monster. And because she doesn't want to be a monster, all the Jedi basically bail her out of her crisis so she can kill palpatine without him taking over, and that's the end of the movie.

And it's so irritating because the idea of Palpatine from ROTS and ROTJ, the master manipulator in the shadows trying to coerce Rey into joining the dark side is some epic, epic shit. Done competently that would've been amazing. But no, evil space zombie Palpatine is so laughably, laughably shit. He changes motivations within the same line of dialogue constantly, and McDiarmid seems to have come along for the large, large payday.

Like imagine Driver and McDiarmid given good material to work with. What a fucking waste.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,438
Some people seem to get really upset or confused as to why the Star Wars movies revolve around the same family or characters, and why they don't take the opportunity to go off and do things that are completely original.

all I can say is that if I was wanting to go and see a completely original movie, I wouldn't be looking for it in movies with the numbers VII, VIII & IX in the title.
VIII and VII acted like this is the next generation though, and VIII like 'look at this kid, you can be small and dream big' this isn't really in IX. I don't mind Rey Skywalker, taking on the name, I can buy that, but in general I would have preferred the story looked more forward.
 

Deleted member 10234

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,922
Visually this movie was amazing. Can't wait to see those Exogol scenes at home on my OLED. Music was also spot-on.

And unlike the (apparent) majority here I really liked the movie otherwise, too.
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,254
It's not a waste of time. It's a very entertaining movie that drops the ball with its storytelling. It's like a better and very modern version of a prequel film.

RoS is the type of movie that hugely benefits from a large format presentation. Its a popcorn film jammed with insanely over the top spectacle. On that level, it's well done.

It's a well crafted, well acted Star Wars spectacle. It's so much less than it could've been (in the eyes of many) but it's still an entertaining flick (also in the eyes of many)

Experiencing it first hand - for better or worse - is imho definitely worth the ticket price.

Some people seem to get really upset or confused as to why the Star Wars movies revolve around the same family or characters, and why they don't take the opportunity to go off and do things that are completely original.

all I can say is that if I was wanting to go and see a completely original movie, I wouldn't be looking for it in movies with the numbers VII, VIII & IX in the title.

They constantly introduce new shit, even in these movies. New characters (even if they're pointless), new locations, new kinds of Stormtroopers. But new villains and new heroes that aren't related to what we've seen before, now that's something we aren't allowed to expect just because it's part of the core series of movies? I disagree :/
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
It's a well crafted, well acted Star Wars spectacle. It's so much less than it could've been (in the eyes of many) but it's still an entertaining flick (also in the eyes of many)

Experiencing it first hand - for better or worse - is imho definitely worth the ticket price.
Absolutely. People should see it in IMAX if they can. I'm going to go again soon, and probably another time with family.
 

thecouncil

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,341
After the gigantic betrayal of Luke and Leia knowing who Rey was, knowing she struggled with it her entire life, and not telling her, I'd be too pissed to take their name either.
 

TooFriendly

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,028
On a positive note I think they did an amazing job making the movie look like it was shot on film. They added a LOT of grain, and it looked like they might have even been using some vintage lenses.
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,254
She senses Luke being ok in rotj also, finn who virtually has no force training senses things in this movie.

Force sensing is pretty much just handed out to everyone
Yes, it is also implied that Finn is force sensitive.

I was just pointing out that TFA shows that Leia is connected to the force - you asked for such an example.
 

Nintenleo

Member
Nov 9, 2017
4,212
Italy
Sadly Kylo didn't say that, he said "I'll finish what you started."

Oh, ok. In my head canon it means the same thing :P

Anakin joined the dark side for his fear of losing Padme after his mother. He couldn't do it, but Ben Solo did it. The woman he loves (I guess) was dead and he gives his life to save her. Like some reverse Romeo & Juliet shit.
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
13,756
I feel sorry for Boyega, he must have had an awkward weekend.

Boyega's cousin: "They did you dirty, fam. You were thirsty for that Rey bird all trilogy, and she ghosted you the whole time, bwhaha! You didn't even become a Jedi or nothing! What were you gonna tell Rey? Go on, tell me instead."
Boyega's entire family laughs.
Boyega:

tenor.gif
 

Kingsora

Member
May 19, 2018
1,058
My biggest problem with the movie was that JJ was apparently afraid to make drastic emotional decisions.

- C3PO 'dies' and says goodbye to his friends. I felt bad for him, but oh look at that he gets his memory back
- Chewie 'dies', oh look at that he was on another ship
- Poe, Chewie and Finn are going to be executed and they aren't even afraid or thinking how to get out of this situation, oh look at that of course they are saved the last minute
- Rey kills Kylo, this could also have been interesting to see what it would do to her, but oh look at that Rey revives Kylo
- Rey, the main character dies, I thought that was nice and let Kylo live with his repercussions, oh look at that Rey is alive again

But my main question is, why? Is it because Star Wars is supposed to be a family friendly movie?

They did the same shit with The Last Jedi, Leia should have died in space, that would have been an emotional and upset death. Or when Finn wanted to sacrifice himself, let it happen. Everybody is protected by 'plot armor' it seems in this new generation (outside of Solo and that was a good death). Putting characters in deadly situations and letting them escape everytime by pure luck gets old.

I am a huge Star Wars-fan, don't get me wrong. But in the prequels there were at least repercussions and not everybody was saved.
 

aerie

wonky
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
8,036
After the gigantic betrayal of Luke and Leia knowing who Rey was, knowing she struggled with it her entire life, and not telling her, I'd be too pissed to take their name either.
I don't think Leia always knew, I think she learned it while training her and Luke then sensed that when she returned to Ahch-To in this film.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
I feel sorry for Boyega, he must have had an awkward weekend.

Boyega's cousin: "They did you dirty, fam. You were thirsty for that Rey bird all trilogy, and she ghosted you the whole time, bwhaha! You didn't even become a Jedi or nothing! What were you gonna tell Rey? Go on, tell me instead."
Boyega's entire family laughs.
Boyega:

tenor.gif
Lmao. The Tragedy of FN-2187, Blue of Balls, First of His Name.
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,254
Anakin joined the dark side for his fear of losing Padme after his mother. He couldn't do it, but Ben Solo did it. The woman he loves (I guess) was dead and he gives his life to save her. Like some reverse Romeo & Juliet shit.

Honestly, i'm not sure Ben did what Anakin couldn't - because Ben did something i'm unsure Anakin would have done. I don't think he'd have given his life for hers. He wanted to be with her, he was afraid of losing her. He was willing to murder, kill and overthrow the democracy for all of that. Hell, he even choked her at one point.
It's not her wellbeing, her life that he cares about, it's her being with him. HIM not having to deal with the loss.

Ben's sacrifice was selfless, Anakin was looking for a way to prevent Padme from dieing out of selfish reasons.

My biggest problem with the movie was that JJ was apparently afraid to make drastic emotional decisions.

- C3PO 'dies' and says goodbye to his friends. I felt bad for him, but oh look at that he gets his memory back
- Chewie 'dies', oh look at that he was on another ship
- Poe, Chewie and Finn are going to be executed and they aren't even afraid or thinking how to get out of this situation, oh look at that of course they are saved the last minute
- Rey kills Kylo, this could also have been interesting to see what it would do to her, but oh look at that Rey revives Kylo
- Rey, the main character dies, I thought that was nice and let Kylo live with his repercussions, oh look at that Rey is alive again

But my main question is, why? Is it because Star Wars is supposed to be a family friendly movie?

They did the same shit with The Last Jedi, Leia should have died in space, that would have been an emotional and upset death. Or when Finn wanted to sacrifice himself, let it happen. Everybody is protected by 'plot armor' it seems in this new generation (outside of Solo and that was a good death). Putting characters in deadly situations and letting them escape everytime by pure luck gets old.

I am a huge Star Wars-fan, don't get me wrong. But in the prequels there were at least repercussions and not everybody was saved.

Well, TLJ let Luke die and people went craaaazy over that.
TLJ dared to kill off Admiral Ackbar and people said RJ raped their childhood...
TLJ killed off Snoke and Phasma, people were pissed.

Of course JJ wouldn't dare to kill anyone (except for Snap Wexley ... RIP) in this movie.

Also, you forgot Poe's love interest, whose planet got blown up shortly after she had given Poe her only ticket off the planet. But apparently she made it out safely.
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,284
Currently losing my mind over the final scene of the saga being Rey symbolically burying Luke and Leia on a planet they both would have hated. Luke couldn't wait to get off Tatooine, and the only time Leia spent there was in a metal bikini chained to a giant slug.
 

thecouncil

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,341
I feel sorry for Boyega, he must have had an awkward weekend.

Boyega's cousin: "They did you dirty, fam. You were thirsty for that Rey bird all trilogy, and she ghosted you the whole time, bwhaha! You didn't even become a Jedi or nothing! What were you gonna tell Rey? Go on, tell me instead."
Boyega's entire family laughs.
Boyega:

tenor.gif

lol. yeah, Finn should've been foce sensitive in TFA, should've trained with Rey and Luke in TLJ and been the second half of the dyad in ROS.
BUT!
there can only be one Jedi in this story cause there was only one Jedi in the OT and JJ can't deviate from that structure.
 

aerie

wonky
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
8,036
Currently losing my mind over the final scene of the saga being Rey symbolically burying Luke and Leia on a planet they both would have hated. Luke couldn't wait to get off Tatooine, and the only time Leia spent there was in a metal bikini chained to a giant slug.
It really doesn't work, and is so utterly contrived. It is one of the worst scenes in the franchise.
 

Skyball Paint

Member
Nov 12, 2017
1,667
TBH I strongly disagree that the spectacle redeemed the movie because the big action scenes were all so fucking boring
The big space battle is so fucking sad next to Rogue One
 

Ushojax

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,930
I haven't seen this movie yet but it bugs me. How is palpatine back again? I thought he was dead. Can someone explain?

There is no explanation. They just reuse a line from ROTS about the dark side having unnatural powers and show us that he's missing fingers and generally decayed. A corpse basically. Later on we find out that he's attached to some kind of arcane medical device.

Of course none of this makes sense because we saw him explode. Then the space station that he exploded on, also exploded. Also the whole downside of the dark side according to previous lore was that there is no life after death for Sith. Only for Jedi.
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,254
Currently losing my mind over the final scene of the saga being Rey symbolically burying Luke and Leia on a planet they both would have hated. Luke couldn't wait to get off Tatooine, and the only time Leia spent there was in a metal bikini chained to a giant slug.
Don't forget Rey playfully sliding down into Skywalker farm on that metal piece of wreckage - you know, reminiscing the good old days, where she was a scavenger, for whom the struggle to bring food on the table was a daily occurence and was getting worse by the day.

There is no explanation. They just reuse a line from ROTS about the dark side having unnatural powers and show us that he's missing fingers and generally decayed. A corpse basically. Later on we find out that he's attached to some kind of arcane medical device.

Of course none of this makes sense because we saw him explode. Then the space station that he exploded on, also exploded. Also the whole downside of the dark side according to previous lore was that there is no life after death for Sith. Only for Jedi.

I think some believe that the Emperor on the DS2 was already a clone, with Sidious 'proper' always working from the shadows.
Palpatine's decay / missing fingers can be explained by his age, and the machine he's attached to might just be to prolong his life.

He never did directly reference ROTJ in this? His conflict with Luke, his fate at the hands of Vader, did he?
 

thecouncil

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,341
I think Ben should've been a ghost at the end to hang out with his mom. Also Han could be there because Rey could have remembered him into existence (or whatever that Han vision shit was). And it would e been one happy family.

Then Rey could've said she was Rey Solo and I would've been just as confused as with Rey Skywalker but at least her surrogate parents and boyfriend were there!
 

shintoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,118
Don't forget Rey playfully sliding down into Skywalker farm on that metal piece of wreckage - you know, reminiscing the good old days, where she was a scavenger, for whom the struggle to bring food on the table was a daily occurence and was getting worse by the day.
Wouldn't that metal piece be from when the farm was attacked and destroyed in ANH. Sliding down on poor Lars remains!

Thinking about it, on the planet where your father was enslaved, his mother died/enslaved, your relatives were turned to cinder, a giant slug turned your sister into a space ho, who also kept your best friend in frozen carbon, where you just bitched about getting off.

Good shit happens on Tattoonie
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Currently losing my mind over the final scene of the saga being Rey symbolically burying Luke and Leia on a planet they both would have hated. Luke couldn't wait to get off Tatooine, and the only time Leia spent there was in a metal bikini chained to a giant slug.
Yeah but something something the fans
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
Also the whole downside of the dark side according to previous lore was that there is no life after death for Sith. Only for Jedi.

In fairness.......we have in fact seen people survive after fatal injury using the hatred and power of the dark side, specifically Maul and Vader. There is no true life after death when you follow the dark side, instead you are left a hateful, decaying husk while the Jedi become one with the Force and lose their physical forms.

The real reason Palpatine's return is dumb is because it invalidates everything Anakin and Luke did in the PT and OT.
 
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