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Leandras

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,462
Also if you want to redeem Ben... fine. But then let Rey make the ultimate sacrifice to end the Palpatine name and have Ben spend the rest of his life rebuilding the Jedi as atonement for his crimes as a space nazi. Not get a freaking hero's kiss at the end
 

Hot Priest

Alt-account
Banned
Oct 11, 2019
351
I see your point but I don't see what they could have done that would have been bigger...and tied all nine films together....especially as snoke as arch villain was already dead..

Just build him up, don't make it so he comes out of literally nowhere. Or just make it all about Kylo.

The structure of the main plot of ep 9 is as if its a completely stand-alone movie. The last two movies were like fucking completely irrelivant outside of Kylo's development.
 

ArkkAngel007

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,996
I'm so fucking tired of companies trying to cash in on their wokeness by adding in background lgb characters and wanting us to praise them only to edit those moments out anywhere where the scene would cause controversy. If you want praise have the guts to make a main character openly lgbt and keep it that way in other regions!
Agreed. Dominic could have had a partner who was always present and engaging as well since he was thrown in for who knows what reason other than JJ enjoying working with him. Or could have had Poe be involved with a man in place of Keri Russel's Zorii.
 

TooFriendly

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,028
I don't have a problem with the kiss at all, there was plenty of sexual tension scenes between them before that.

BUT...

through Star Wars logic and because there will be a need for a fourth trilogy I bet that Rey just got force pregnant with that kiss, and is going to have a skywalker baby!
 

Deleted member 4614

Oct 25, 2017
6,345
I don't have a problem with the kiss at all, there was plenty of sexual tension scenes between them before that.

BUT...

through Star Wars logic and because there will be a need for a fourth trilogy I bet that Rey just got force pregnant with that kiss, and is going to have a skywalker baby!

The Rape of Ms Marvel
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,341
I am shocked by people's reaction to the reylo kiss.....I don't think it was meant to be romantic at all...the two most connected force users in generations share a moment of intimacy to recognise their connection, kylos redemption, saying goodbye and his gift of his life force to save Rey....it is entirely appropriate under the circumstances and doesn't need to be viewed romantically at all. Rey calls herself a Skywalker because she is living through Kylos life force....he literally lives in her which is why she is alive. Their connection which is among the best things in TLJ finds a deep expression.

What is the problem people have with this?

The problem is it isn't earned, it's three movies of horrible power dynamics and frankly no chemistry between the characters. Up until that point, her mission is to bring Ben Solo back, they even tell you that the Sith bridged them on purpose.

It didn't need to be a weird out of place kiss, in fact there's a great example in Star Wars itself of affection in the face of adversity in a budding, not yet fully formed relationship:

tumblr_oicg8v3G3J1rszoo3o1_r1_500.gifv
 

ArkkAngel007

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,996
I don't have a problem with the kiss at all, there was plenty of sexual tension scenes between them before that.

BUT...

through Star Wars logic and because there will be a need for a fourth trilogy I bet that Rey just got force pregnant with that kiss, and is going to have a skywalker baby!

And that baby turns out to be Sheev the whole time!
 

Ushojax

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,929
Does anyone want to see Poe again?

Think I disliked him in all three. He went from annoying faultless pilot to arrogant idiot to really in your face Poe. It's like his character in Ex Machina with a smile.

I liked Finn more even though he didn't too much, he just seemed more comfortable in the role, his accent got better, can only really fault his must shout Rey!!!!! or someone at least once and what a waste of Keri Russell too although she did her best.

I'll be honest, one of the worst things in this movie is the dynamic between Rey, Poe and Finn. They tried too hard to make up for them being separated in TLJ and their constant bickering, quips and madcap energy quickly becomes annoying. Especially as any time they are together they have to invent some dumb reason for Rey to be separated from them when shit goes down. It just didn't feel natural at all.

Only when Poe was around Zorii did he become tolerable.
 

Fuchs

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,881
Right after that kiss happened, I had a feelling that they'd put that in, just to justify her getting force pregnant to make more sequels.
 

br0ken_shad0w

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,095
Washington
I'll be honest, one of the worst things in this movie is the dynamic between Rey, Poe and Finn. They tried too hard to make up for them being separated in TLJ and their constant bickering, quips and madcap energy quickly becomes annoying. Especially as any time they are together they have to invent some dumb reason for Rey to be separated from them when shit goes down. It just didn't feel natural at all.

Only when Poe was around Zorii did he become tolerable.

It's telling that Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Padme felt like more like a trio than those three.
 

Spotless Mind

Member
Oct 27, 2017
292
Australia
I see your point but I don't see what they could have done that would have been bigger...and tied all nine films together....especially as snoke as arch villain was already dead..
There was no reason to tie all 9 films together and deliver something even bigger than what came before. That shows a complete lack of imagination on Abrams part. Kylo was set up as the primary antagonist and not following up on that (and Rey being a nobody) organically is what gave us this incoherent mess.
 

TooFriendly

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,028
Personally i think that this movie did a pretty admirable job of recovering from the waste of time that was TLJ. If something actually happened that moved the plot along in TLJ then TRoS wouldn't have had to move at such a breakneck speed from plot point to plot point to get anything done.
 

Kiekura

Member
Mar 23, 2018
4,043
Just build him up, don't make it so he comes out of literally nowhere. Or just make it all about Kylo.

The structure of the main plot of ep 9 is as if its a completely stand-alone movie. The last two movies were like fucking completely irrelivant outside of Kylo's development.

Just like Last Jedi threw everything away. That is the biggest problem here. FA felt like they could be building something good, then TLA throws lots of it away and ep9 keeps doing it more.

I just feel Disney should've been more strict and have storyline directors need to follow...
 

Kiekura

Member
Mar 23, 2018
4,043
Personally i think that this movie did a pretty admirable job of recovering from the waste of time that was TLJ. If something actually happened that moved the plot along in TLJ then TRoS wouldn't have had to move at such a breakneck speed from plot point to plot point to get anything done.

Exactly how i feel. TLJ just destroyed this trilogy.
 

TooFriendly

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,028
Just like Last Jedi threw everything away. That is the biggest problem here. FA felt like they could be building something good, then TLA throws lots of it away and ep9 keeps doing it more.

I just feel Disney should've been more strict and have storyline directors need to follow...

Absolutely. You'd think the MOST BASIC thing they would have done right at the beginning would be sitting down and writing the straightforward story arc for the trilogy.
Making up the stories by the seat of your pants with different directors for A PLANNED TRILOGY is insane and so amateurish, it boggles my mind.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,706
Well, Cognizant cared, and I just showed him that he was on the bridge 🤷‍♂️
Sorry, didn't mean to go off. The Ackbar argument is just one of the dumbest things in the worst arguments of TLJ and I still wake up in a cold sweat remembering how people legitimately tried to argue he was a real character.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,621
JJ: OK, so there's this dagger

Lucasfilm Story Group: Uh huh

JJ: It was used to murder Rey's parents

LSG: Um...

JJ: The dagger is also covered in ancient Sith script leading to a planet that turns out to be where the second Death Star crashed

LSG: Hang on when was this dagger mad-

JJ: The dagger has a little foldout piece and you have to stand in the right place to line it up with the wreckage

LSG: How do you know where to sta-

JJ: It points to Palpatine's Throne Room

LSG: Isn't that the first place you'd look anywa-

JJ: The entire first half of the movie revolves around this dagger

LSG: Oh, so it's going to come back in the finale and Rey will kill Sheev with it or something, right?

JJ: It disappears from the movie and nobody ever mentions it again
LSG: Okay JJ, okay... please, at least tell us if all of that was worth the trouble for our heroes.

JJ: As soon as Rey finds the Wayfinder Kylo shows up out of nowhere and immediately destroys it.

LSG: What? But ho-

JJ: Turns out Kylo happens to have the second one in his TIE Fighter so Rey finds that and uses that to get to Exogol

LSG: Motherfucker...
 

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,602
Oof.

I dunno, it's not horrible as a standalone movie. But whether or not you hated The Last Jedi, this movie absolutely ripping it to shreds, component by component, means that the trilogy will always be a stilted, marginally coherent story bound by loose thread.

It also felt like JJ Abrams had a trench coat and was constantly saying, "Hey, you kids like Star Wars? I got yer Star Wars. I got Palpatine. I got Lando. I got Luke's X-Wing, you liked that, right? I got Wedge! Some old Jedi's voices! I got it all!"
 
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Deleted member 42055

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 12, 2018
11,215

I feel terrible that I really have nothing to add as I'm reading these posts except, yup, another example of stuff that's littered throughout the film that completely renders any sort of argument about it being an actual proper film completely ridiculous to me. No wonder so many people are sayig children loved it ,well of course they did
 

MrBadger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,552
Personally i think that this movie did a pretty admirable job of recovering from the waste of time that was TLJ. If something actually happened that moved the plot along in TLJ then TRoS wouldn't have had to move at such a breakneck speed from plot point to plot point to get anything done.

The Rise of Skywalker didn't have to have a big shocking parentage reveal, or the Big Bad redeeming himself by turning against a Bigger Bad.

TLJ tried to ensure that there would be more to this trilogy than reused plot points and references to the OT by removing the Palpatine ripoff and resolving the parentage storyline before they could get to the eye rolling "I am your father" reveal. TROS wasted half of its runtime to say actually, yes this trilogy will be a nostalgia wankfest, when it could have easily built something new instead
 

Kiekura

Member
Mar 23, 2018
4,043
Absolutely. You'd think the MOST BASIC thing they would have done right at the beginning would be sitting down and writing the straightforward story arc for the trilogy.
Making up the stories by the seat of your pants with different directors for A PLANNED TRILOGY is insane and so amateurish, it boggles my mind.

Yeah. Like use different directors, but you need storyline they need to follow.
 

lacer

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,693
Why the fuck did they hire Keri Russell and only show her eyes for like 10 seconds

The obsession this franchise has with helmets is something else
same reason they got Gwendoline Christie for Phasma. i really wonder if the pitch for both characters was like "look, you don't even have to be on set more than a day or two when we shoot your last scene. your body double can be there for 90% of it and we'll get you in the booth for a week or so to get voiceover. it's free money!"
 

TooFriendly

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,028
Oof.

I dunno, it's not horrible as a standalone movie. But whether or not you hated The Last Jedi, this movie absolutely ripping it to shreds, component by component, means that the trilogy will always been a stilted, marginally coherent story bound by loose thread.

It also felt like JJ Abrams had a trench coat and was constantly saying, "Hey, you kids like Star Wars? I got yer Star Wars. I got Palpatine. I got Lando. I got Luke's X-Wing, you liked that, right? I got Wedge! Some old Jedi's voices! I got it all!"

The last few scenes especially were just jam packed with call backs and references. That little old alien lady with a face like 3 buttholes just shows up with a shiny gold medal for chewbacca because y'know, he didn't get a medal in a New Hope, wink wink fans.

And I'm pretty sure they said 'there's too many of them' at lest three times in this movie. Every time it gets self referential with a little wink to the fans my brain goes 'I know where that's from!' And i get pulled out of the moment.
 

Deleted member 2229

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,740
The Rise of Skywalker didn't have to have a big shocking parentage reveal, or the Big Bad redeeming himself by turning against a Bigger Bad.

TLJ tried to ensure that there would be more to this trilogy than reused plot points and references to the OT by removing the Palpatine ripoff and resolving the parentage storyline before they could get to the eye rolling "I am your father" reveal. TROS wasted half of its runtime to say actually, yes this trilogy will be a nostalgia wankfest, when it could have easily built something new instead
No, what everyone really wanted was OT remakes masquerading as new entries in the franchise. Why do anything new or interesting when you can do this thing people already liked but worse with a quarter of the effort. That's real writting and story telling.
 

s_mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,772
Birmingham, UK
So was I expected to believe that Palpatine literally survived, or was he doing a Sauron thing where he was a force ghost that was sucking power to become substantial again? His plan to... enter Rey was also a bit unclear on whether he would simply be inside Rey along with all the other Sith historically (just for the ride), or whether he'd literally be in-charge.

Who knows? With Palpatine appearing so early I was constantly "You're going to explain this, right? Right?!"

Well, I guess force teleportation's a thing now.
 

ThatWasAJoke

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,373
Reviews are absolutely silly. This was amazing and so much better than the Lest Jedi. JJ nailed everything except maybe a little too much fan service.
 

ArmGunar

PlayStatistician
Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,527
Exactly how i feel. TLJ just destroyed this trilogy.
TFA was already a poor introduction to that trilogy. The foundation was too fragile

TLJ came and did absolutely nothing to move forward the overall plot (and I won't say anything about the poor story of TLJ, characters, etc...)

Yeah TROS tried to save things, and it was somewhat entertaining during some moments but it's already sad to say something like that, because we wanted something truly great
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
13,755
Still haven't seen any posters/billboards for this movie in London. Did Disney want to save cash? Am I unlucky? Its weird!
 

sibarraz

Prophet of Regret - One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
18,106
What exactly TLJ destroyed? TFA stupid mystery boxes?

There was a clear follow up for TLJ, and ROTS didn't follow up anything from it because they had to cater to some vocal fans.

ROTS is the movie that all those haters deserved to be honest, now enjoy it
 
Aug 26, 2019
6,342
Was that woman at the end who asked Rey what her name was just some device for her to say Skywalker? Because in the flashbacks I recall only her father being killed, I was wondering if she was waiting for Rey to say "Palpatine" or something to reveal that she's her mother.
 

Maverick14

Banned
Feb 16, 2019
624
There was no reason to tie all 9 films together and deliver something even bigger than what came before. That shows a complete lack of imagination on Abrams part. Kylo was set up as the primary antagonist and not following up on that (and Rey being a nobody) organically is what gave us this incoherent mess.
I think his arc is meant to follow Anakin's which makes perfect sense to me...the present echoes the past....
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,284
Personally i think that this movie did a pretty admirable job of recovering from the waste of time that was TLJ. If something actually happened that moved the plot along in TLJ then TRoS wouldn't have had to move at such a breakneck speed from plot point to plot point to get anything done.

This is only true if you believe that a Star Wars movie absolutely must have a Palpatine-type villain for its third installment and no other story setup is possible. TLJ sets up Supreme Leader Kylo Ren as the villain of Episode IX. That's the obvious follow up. There was no need to establish an entirely new villain at the eleventh hour of the trilogy.

Seriously I have no idea how people can read TLJ as a movie where "nothing happens" because it didn't set up an exact ROTJ rehash plot for Episode IX.
 

thecouncil

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,339
Personally i think that this movie did a pretty admirable job of recovering from the waste of time that was TLJ. If something actually happened that moved the plot along in TLJ then TRoS wouldn't have had to move at such a breakneck speed from plot point to plot point to get anything done.

TRoS didn't need to move at a breakneck pace, with or without TLJ. There was a LOT of useless shit in Skywalker when you think about it. Ahch-To didn't need to be in it. Kijimi didn't need to be in it. A bunch of things in this movie didn't make sense, in canon or in general. So, while TLJ has it's faults, we don't need to blame Rian for JJ's failings as a storyteller and director.
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,341
The next year is going to be spent with loads of people banging on about The Last Jedi being the reason for The Rise of Skywalker being shite, failing to understand that all the elements that The Force Awakens set up were garbage and The Rise of Skywalker trying to retcon everything was just pure indulgence from Abrams.

Give it a decade and The Last Jedi will be as revered as Empire and Rise of Skywalker will be viewed through the same lens as Return of the Jedi of 'uhhhh we're supposed to like this?'
 

Kiekura

Member
Mar 23, 2018
4,043
No it didn't. It built on TFA, maybe in ways you dont like, but it did build on it. ROS didn't build on anything besides Kylo and just put together some total nonsense to wrap this up.

It didn't. It threw away Snoke and had complitely irrevelant story with Finn and that woman (dont even remember her name). TLA even killed it own plot point at the end with lightspeed kamikaze.

Second movie should've been about Rey and Ren getting stronger. Now it was grumpy Luke doing nothing, Ren being mad and Rey doing nothing.

Prelogues did better than this. Atleast there was story to follow from EP1 to EP3.
 

TooFriendly

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,028
The Rise of Skywalker didn't have to have a big shocking parentage reveal, or the Big Bad redeeming himself by turning against a Bigger Bad.

TLJ tried to ensure that there would be more to this trilogy than reused plot points and references to the OT by removing the Palpatine ripoff and resolving the parentage storyline before they could get to the eye rolling "I am your father" reveal. TROS wasted half of its runtime to say actually, yes this trilogy will be a nostalgia wankfest, when it could have easily built something new instead

That argument would hold water if TLJ actually did anything interesting by itself. Just resetting everything and saying 'ok everything was a big failure, nothing got accomplished in this movie, now it's the next movies chance to do something interesting that is not cliche' is not valid, it has to do interesting things by itself.

It would be nice if TLJ did something new and fresh but the fact is that it spent most of its time with a slow speed chase involving a big space ship that's run out of gas, getting shot in the ass by space nazis following slowly behind. Interspersed with fruitless side plots such as going to a Las Vegas planet to get a hacker that also ends up being pointless. Every single plot line in that movie led nowhere, so much so that you could literally skip the entire movie and you wouldn't be missing any key points.
 
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