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Maximus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,586
One clear idea that TLJ leaves IX to pick up with: rebuilding the Resistance in the wake of a resurgent First Order, using Luke's final act as a rallying cry to do so, and resolving the war between the two. But in this movie I actually have no idea what is going on with the First Order (have they just been reduced to Kylo's Star Destroyer? seems that way but it's not clear) because the movie sidesteps them in favor of creating the Final Order as the climactic final battle for the story. Kylo Ren becoming the new leader of the First Order as we've been talking about is also a clear area of story potential for IX to dig into. You might disagree with that as the right characterization for Kylo, but it's not "nowhere for the third film" to go, it was definitely somewhere to go, it's just not an idea JJ pursues for even a second of screentime.

I agree that making Palpatine the overarching villain of the series is not a bad idea at all. I think it could've worked. My issue with him here is that in the end the movie never really justifies Palpatine's return and his inclusion creates a lot of other story problems.

In the movie, Poe says that no one answered the call from Episode 8 and that's why he didn't believe anyone was going to come for the final fight in 9. It was weird how JJ again decided to continue to cripple the good guys, I guess to set up this final scene of everyone coming to their aid.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
ok so i dunno why im even bothering to give this the benefit of the doubt but did i miss something with the sith dagger?

is there some prophecy or did the sith who made it know the 2nd death star would crash in that exact way on endor?

It was the Sith loyalist assassin Ochie's dagger. For some reason he carved the coordinates of where the Death Star II wreckage landed on the dagger, and then he would be able to locate the Wayfinder inside with the pop out piece.

No, it doesn't make any sense.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
those were actual people? I was so confused because there was so many of them I thought they had to be ghosts. The scale of things in this film is crazy.

All I could think of was the greater good from Hot Fuzz in ridiculous scale.

How the hell do you keep the Suth that secret and what sort of loyalist from society wants to piss around in the middle of nowhere.

I'm getting more annoyed the more I think of this film. Fun ride but ya blew JJ, Lucasfilm.
 

We_care_a_lot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,157
Summerside PEI
Force awakens actually shocked me that JJ abrams was able to make a star wars movie I loved.

Rise of skywalker is exactly what I envisioned a JJ abrams star wars movie would be like when I first heard he was involved with the series.


I guess having Kasdan as a writer made all the difference huh? Why they didn't bring him back to write the 3rd film is a mystery to me.
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,975
When all the reinforcements showed up to help the Rebels, I don't think that the Star Wars theme should have been the song they used, as iconic as it is. It didn't feel the same sort of triumphant moment as "Portals" in Endgame (not even mentioning the real lack of set up for how they were able to get so many people to finally agree to help and get them to show up all at the same time).

If they used any throwback song, I think this could have hit me right in the feels:



Imagine 0:13 starting to kick in as everyone shows up.
 
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The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,472
Not that this matters to me but I think luke would have slaughtered kylo in a one on one lightsaber duel. Surviving the barrage of various ATAT's and other ships though? probably not.

Even without that context it was obvious Leia wasn't in love with luke. She kissed him to make Han Jealous.

So scandalous! how did that ever make it into a children's movie? :)
Luke would have defeated Kylo, I have no doubt, but I find Kylo could have been an effective main villain because he's a weak and fucked up young man with a lot of power and he's petty.
 

Tunichtgut

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,300
Germany
Has anyone else noticed inconsistency how the force was used? I mean, i don't care that you can use this and that with the force, but it felt in one scene like they could fly with the help of the force, and in next scene they are climbing some walls, like they have no power at all.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,673
Force awakens actually shocked me that JJ abrams was able to make a star wars movie I loved.

Rise of skywalker is exactly what I envisioned a JJ abrams star wars movie would be like when I first heard he was involved with the series.


I guess having Kasdan as a writer made all the difference huh? Why they didn't bring him back to write the 3rd film is a mystery to me.
I think he's just done with Star Wars. His involvement in TFA was originally supposed to be minor and really blew up as the production became more difficult, and then Solo became another difficult production to deal with. I don't blame the guy for not wanting to jump into a third one. It does make me better appreciate Kasdan as part of the secret sauce on TFA. That, and Ford breaking his leg for six weeks so JJ had time to rewrite and add new things.
 

MrBadger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,552
It was necessary being Kylo needed to be redeemed, and having him be the main threat when Rey already beat him in TFA doesn't work.

TLJ decided that Kylo might have been beyond redemption. The Kylo Rey defeated in TFA was physically wounded, mentally unstable and emotionally conflicted. He decided on his resolve when he murdered Snoke and rejected Rey. He could have grown beyond what he was in TFA but he didn't because JJ Abrams sucks
 

BrassDragon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,154
The Netherlands
When all the reinforcements showed up to help the Rebels, I don't think that the Star Wars theme should have been the song they used, as iconic as it is. It didn't feel the same sort of triumphant moment as "Portals" in Endgame (not even mentioning the real lack of set up for how they were able to get so many people to finally agree to help and get them to show up all at the same time).

If they used any throwback song, I think this could have hit me right in the feels:



Would have been great but the main theme is used similarly in Return of the Jedi (during the Into the Trap sequence)... Guess they wanted to echo that.
 

Ushojax

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,942
All of that shit including Rey discovering that thing she could pull out of the dagger made no fucking sense

Supposedly the Occhi character was much more important in earlier versions of the film, what we see in the final movie is very hard to understand after all the cuts. His ship is the one that Rey saw abandoning her on Jakku but how come he didn't find her? That was his mission and she was right there as he took off. Why put all that information into the dagger? How did he even get the dagger? From Sheev? But then he could just tell him where the wayfinder was. Why would he need the wayfinder anyway if he is already taking orders from Sheev?
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,718
"In time you will learn to use it as I have". Very middle of the road but a promise. She also says that she saw her own mother as a kid, one of the biggest continuity gafs in the films. Mark Hamill is crazy good in Ep 6 btw. That was his breakthrough as an actor.
I never understand why people consider this a continuity mistake. Yes, her real mother was Padmé who she couldn't possibly have remembered, but Leia doesn't know that. Leia at this point still thinks she's the legitimate daughter of Bail Organa and his wife. When she's referring to remembering her mother, she's referring to whoever Bail Organa was married to.
 

We_care_a_lot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,157
Summerside PEI
All of that shit including Rey discovering that thing she could pull out of the dagger made no fucking sense
That part was so incredibly throwaway and stupid. Just unnecessary. Considering that the 'wayfinders' were literally just ancient sith holocrons we've already seen in the cartoons they could have just had her sense it with her force powers. Just completely baffling
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
A better version of the Ochi story would have been if he wasn't a Sith acolyte but a New Republic agent trying to take out Palpatine's lineage. That would cause Rey to have tension with Leia and the Resistance, and then Palpatine uses this to try to connect with Rey by telling her how he's the only family she has left and he cares for her and he's just a misunderstood grandpa.
 

Duane

Unshakable Resolve
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,463
So who did Sheev knock up, anyway? That bald lady from RotS?

c9fe8f7f1112be3b6e882775fe09189650015352r1-1277-1920v2_00.jpg



Is that Rey's grandma?
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,718
Supposedly the Occhi character was much more important in earlier versions of the film, what we see in the final movie is very hard to understand after all the cuts. His ship is the one that Rey saw abandoning her on Jakku but how come he didn't find her? That was his mission and she was right there as he took off. Why put all that information into the dagger? How did he even get the dagger? From Sheev? But then he could just tell him where the wayfinder was. Why would he need the wayfinder anyway if he is already taking orders from Sheev?
The dagger is the dumbest thing in the movie. Why would they even create a dagger with the shape of the Death Star wreckage? How would they even create that? The Death Star wreckage is in rough waters, surely the tides and erosion will make that dagger useless in the long run. Hell, the puzzle itself doesn't even make sense. The shape of the dagger only points the way to the Wayfinder if you stand in a very specific spot on the planet. If Rey approached the wreckage from literally any other angle, the whole thing wouldn't have worked.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,964
The dagger is the dumbest thing in the movie. Why would they even create a dagger with the shape of the Death Star wreckage? How would they even create that? The Death Star wreckage is in rough waters, surely the tides and erosion will make that dagger useless in the long run. Hell, the puzzle itself doesn't even make sense. The shape of the dagger only point the way to the Wayfinder if you stand in a very specific spot on the planet. If Rey approached the wreckage from literally any other angle, the whole thing wouldn't have worked.

man i didnt even think about that cuz i thought it was an old sith artifact but youre right, literally any way you look at it it makes absolutely no sense. its incredible so many people looked at this script and it came out like this. or maybe thats why it came out like this
 

jstevenson

Developer at Insomniac Games
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,043
Burbank CA
Also Luke's X-Wing was OPERATIONAL?!?!?!

I mean we have established in ESB you can submerge an X-Wing and it's fine. Even though Luke had used part of the wing of it for the door of his hut.

But it completely undermines what he did in TLJ - he could've left the planet and helped in person! I suppose you could argue that he had an impact remotely through the force and that is a bigger choice then jumping in your X-Wing, but given that Hyperspace is now teleportation, Luke could've actually shown up!

GAH.



(Also, nice Imperial TIE Fighter that Kylo found in the wreckage of DS2... cool it had a hyperdrive on it... - this doesn't ruin the movie for me, but it's a detail that is annoying. An Imperial Shuttle or something would've been cooler)
 

Duane

Unshakable Resolve
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,463
In Legends, she was indeed the mother of Palpatine's secret son Triclops.

Seriously?? I read all that back then, but Triclops first appeared in like 1992, didn't he? Does Sly Moore really go that far back? I figured her first appearance was RotS or AotC.

To Wookiepedia!
 

We_care_a_lot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,157
Summerside PEI
Luke would have defeated Kylo, I have no doubt, but I find Kylo could have been an effective main villain because he's a weak and fucked up young man with a lot of power and he's petty.
Oh yah. And as I previously said they could have just given him some sith mcguffin to make him more powerful in this movie. Literally anything at all. considering the unbelievable shit that actually happened in the film it's like come on people....use your imagination.
 
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