That's not how I took it, but I can see how someone might feel that way.
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Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker |OT| Revenge of a Sith (SPOILERS NOW OPEN)
- Thread starter MMarston
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That's not how I took it, but I can see how someone might feel that way.
When Rey "died", that is exactly what I thought the movie name was referring to, it was the ultimate redemption of Ben. Especially after Palpatine explicitly referred to him as the last Skywalker before throwing him down the hole.
Alas not.
Right, Ben spending his life atoning for what he did and fixing the damage he caused in a galaxy that no longer has a centralised government because of his "side" would've been cool.
Even moreso if, as in the Zuko episode in The Last Airbender, anyone that recognises him or finds out who he is would probably try to kill him.
Yeah, it's the easy way out. There's a lot more you could've done with an alive Ben than a dead one.
User Banned (1 Week): Inappropriate language, prior infraction for ableism
The movies are so schizo with each other's themes that the ST doesn't actually have any themes that don't contradict itself.
It's just a fucking mess. Individual movies have themes but as a whole, it's meaningless.
You can tell Hamill was just over it. He was channelling RTJ Harrison Ford in his indifference.
What's even more jagging is that they just skip ahead after Rey get back on the Falcon. Like didn't you thought Chewie was dead for a moment? You didn't even try to hug him?
also: ^ agree. I really feel both Harrison Ford and Mark Hamill are done with SW/ just didn't want to be there. It's even worse for Mark Hamill since he mentioned he didn't agree what Rian did to Luke in TLJ
also: ^ agree. I really feel both Harrison Ford and Mark Hamill are done with SW/ just didn't want to be there. It's even worse for Mark Hamill since he mentioned he didn't agree what Rian did to Luke in TLJ
My Odeon cinema had big inflatable Stormtrooper balloons, a couple of people dressed as Stormtroopers and a lady dressed as old school Leia stood outside taking pictures with kids and asking how they liked the film after.
To say that was the highlight of the night shows how I feel about the actual film.
To say that was the highlight of the night shows how I feel about the actual film.
It's getting to the point that this nonsense is highly disingenuous and willfully ignorant.
Finn begins the movie a coward trying to run away from what he views as a hopeless fight. He ends the movie trying to bravely confront them and sacrifice himself in a bid to be a beacon of hope for others, to which Rose reminds him that sacrifice and destroying isn't the answer, but saving lives is.
Poe brashness in the beginning sacrifices the lives of their entire squadron right in the opening and he considers that a worthwhile "victory," because of this hotheaded flyboy attitude. After all the development he goes through, he becomes a more measured leader and has the wisdom to pull the squad back during the end when he sees they're simply throwing their lives away for nothing like he made a bunch of people do in the beginning. Making the hard call to save lives rather than go for victory or bust.
Rey was simply trying to face her fear about her origin and parents and who she is in the universe, and ends the movie with the realization that it doesn't matter where she came from or who her family was, they may as well be nobody, because that doesn't define who she is. She can be comfortable in her own shoes and not be dependent on family ties to win the day for her.
And then this movie happened and threw all of that out. You'd have to be willfully blind to everything that happened in this movie to not see how badly all of this was thrown out the window by JJ.
Even Darth Maul didn't die falling into a hole and the motherfucker was cut in half. Maybe people should just stop trying to hurl people into holes in SW.
Say what you will about George Lucas, but Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith are both hugely entertaining movies in their own right, and brought their respective trilogies to a conclusion in a satisfying, meaningful way. Unlike JJ's panicked, directionless "oh shit, we've got to wrap this up!" effort with ROS.
The whole time we were in Palpatine's presence and he was gesturing to the battle going on outside and taunting Rey about how her friends are going to die, all I could think about was how much better it was done in Return of the Jedi.
I can't get this movie out of my head, because I'm slightly in disbelief at how badly they screwed it up.
The whole time we were in Palpatine's presence and he was gesturing to the battle going on outside and taunting Rey about how her friends are going to die, all I could think about was how much better it was done in Return of the Jedi.
I can't get this movie out of my head, because I'm slightly in disbelief at how badly they screwed it up.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but that was boring.
it's the final one and didn't even deliver some steaks (stakes).
Kerry Russel and the mechanic doesn't deserve any more role. Just let them die.
At least JJ stuck to copying the old trilogies.
the reviews were right. No heart
PS: what happened to the KID JEDIs for TLJ?
it's the final one and didn't even deliver some steaks (stakes).
Kerry Russel and the mechanic doesn't deserve any more role. Just let them die.
At least JJ stuck to copying the old trilogies.
the reviews were right. No heart
PS: what happened to the KID JEDIs for TLJ?
You know getting great performances from your actors is a pretty big part of what it takes to be a good director. Like I don't think anyone is going to disagree that the pacing of this movie is rushed but dismissing JJ as an all around bad director when he did so much well in this trilogy is pretty bold. If anything the problems mostly stem from the fact that Disney did not have a clear map of how they wanted this trilogy to play out and it led to some baffling decisions by the directors.
Finn a Coward?? Does the force awakens not exist? He already helped the resistance plenty of times and sacrificed himself for his friends in that movie(Kylo battle).
Rian did Poe dirty, the way that he portraits him in that movie doesn't fit in the character of Poe who always listened to Leia.
And Rey can't just be the strongest Jedi and defeat Kylo for no reason, she had to be a somebody for this saga to make sense, as Lucas said many times it's about family.
I think the implication was the First Order manned them since they mentioned needing to recruit a bunch of new people to crew them.
But yeah wow was this stupid. The visual of the fleet that seemed roughly as large as the entire Empire battle fleet at it's on screen peak in ROTJ was already really really bad. But then they all had planet killing guns, too?
The way they dealt with them was just so wierd too. Like they randomly guessed that it was a major weak point that fucking owned them super fast and it was. Ok... I guess... And then what was with that whole thing about how they can't rise off the evil planet without a navigation beacon because the ships can't tell which way is up? It was a late night screening so maybe my brain missed something here that explained why it made sense for them to not even be able to figure out which way up is? Like forreal?
Finn moves from self-preservation in TFA to rey-preservation at the start of TLJ to resistance-preservation and willing to sacrifice himself.
The sad truth is it's easier to overstuff these movies and distract you by throwing a million things in the plot than to simply deliver on some dramatic writing that resolves conflict in a satisfying way. The only real obligation this movie had after TLJ was resolving the story between Rey and Kylo. Speaks volumes that instead they decided to "wrap up 24 arcs" or whatever.
BTW, was anyone else legit creeped out by Leia?
Like, there was something off about her in a way that even the Rogue One CGI actors wasn't.
It wasn't that she looked wrong, but more that she acted wierd. They tried to write the script around the pieces of recordings they had of her, but it was like a bad photoshop insert except for acting. You could 100% tell that the spoken dialogue and body language she had wasn't intended for the script that they wrote around and you just get flashbacks of Tony Soprano's dialogue with his mother. The most obvious one is her reaction to the news that Palpatine's alive was did not fit at all.
There was something...I don't want to say skincrawling since that's a bit strong, but I had a reaction approaching that, I couldn't stand it. Every time she was onscreen, I wanted the scene to end. It was seriously freaking me out. Am I the only one?
Like, there was something off about her in a way that even the Rogue One CGI actors wasn't.
It wasn't that she looked wrong, but more that she acted wierd. They tried to write the script around the pieces of recordings they had of her, but it was like a bad photoshop insert except for acting. You could 100% tell that the spoken dialogue and body language she had wasn't intended for the script that they wrote around and you just get flashbacks of Tony Soprano's dialogue with his mother. The most obvious one is her reaction to the news that Palpatine's alive was did not fit at all.
There was something...I don't want to say skincrawling since that's a bit strong, but I had a reaction approaching that, I couldn't stand it. Every time she was onscreen, I wanted the scene to end. It was seriously freaking me out. Am I the only one?
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Nah, not even Rey being a Palpy is as bad as the shitty Anakin turn. ROTS is still worse and more boring film IMO .
I dunno why they just don't call it The Empire, Final Order felt like a game stage or something.
I don't agree with y'all's point that Palpatine in some way "won" because his "bloodline" lives on.
Sheev doesn't give a single fuck about his bloodline. He was about to kill his granddaughter to suck up her life force. He had his son killed in his attepmt to get ahold of his granddaughter.
Didn't he also just want to be killed so his Dark Force Spirit could somehow possess Rey?
And even if we assume he didn't plot to somehow keep ruling the galaxy (or what's left of it) by himself, but would be fine if it happened via his granddaughter, he still hasn't won. His granddaughter doesn't rule the galaxy. She's not a Sith. Her mere existence isn't in any way, shape or form any kind of success for him. Quite to the contrary.
She's living, breathing proof that the light side of the force is strong enough such that even the "heiress of Darth Sidious" will reject the Sith.
Sheev doesn't give a single fuck about his bloodline. He was about to kill his granddaughter to suck up her life force. He had his son killed in his attepmt to get ahold of his granddaughter.
Didn't he also just want to be killed so his Dark Force Spirit could somehow possess Rey?
And even if we assume he didn't plot to somehow keep ruling the galaxy (or what's left of it) by himself, but would be fine if it happened via his granddaughter, he still hasn't won. His granddaughter doesn't rule the galaxy. She's not a Sith. Her mere existence isn't in any way, shape or form any kind of success for him. Quite to the contrary.
She's living, breathing proof that the light side of the force is strong enough such that even the "heiress of Darth Sidious" will reject the Sith.
Very much so.
If they'd cut a lot, this movie could have been a lot better if they'd simplified it, spent more time with and focused on three aspects
- Re-emergence of Palpatine
- Ben and Rey dynamic
- Finn / Poe gathering the troops and friends to attack the new First Order fleet
That's it. It wouldn't have helped some major dialogue but it would have helped
Palpatine. Forever. The only villain that Star Wars universe can support it seems.
I was made a thread about this.
Felt the same way about this one vs. the prequels. This one is better looking and better shot from a cinematic perspective, but at least the prequels had a coherent plot that you can follow.
I think TLJ will be held in the same regard as Empire over time. I enjoy Skywalker, but its goofy as hell.
Also every one of Leia's lines in the first part took me out of it so much. It was so obvious that it was cut lines. She was speaking in non sequiturs and then Rey would just be like TOTALLY and then expand on it in a really weird way.
That felt way more ghoulish than if they'd just had Leia start off dead and then maybe use those as flashbacks or Force Ghost... might've been less weird. Even better would've been if Leia was just more prominent in Force Awakens/Last Jedi and they could just, like, flashback cut to lines she'd actually said at the time and they'd be like "yeah Leia was right" or something idk.
It's just funny that the logic is somehow using the outtakes is more respectful to the dead rather than doing the thing they did with young Leia or Tarkin in Rogue One? It's still the same necromancy. Arguably it's almost worse recontextualizing it because it kind of implies "well she would've delivered these lines the same if she knew the context, Carrie Fisher wasn't much of an actor right? so whatever, just carry the weight for her to make it work"
That felt way more ghoulish than if they'd just had Leia start off dead and then maybe use those as flashbacks or Force Ghost... might've been less weird. Even better would've been if Leia was just more prominent in Force Awakens/Last Jedi and they could just, like, flashback cut to lines she'd actually said at the time and they'd be like "yeah Leia was right" or something idk.
It's just funny that the logic is somehow using the outtakes is more respectful to the dead rather than doing the thing they did with young Leia or Tarkin in Rogue One? It's still the same necromancy. Arguably it's almost worse recontextualizing it because it kind of implies "well she would've delivered these lines the same if she knew the context, Carrie Fisher wasn't much of an actor right? so whatever, just carry the weight for her to make it work"
I work with directors so I'm taking into account everything they're responsible for, which is a stressfull amount of stuff, they have to decide basically everything. JJ I imagine is very easy to work with, which is why actors like him, which is why they give committed performances, and he brings productions in on time, etc. But it was his decision to bring back the old cast in Force Awakens, his decision to create the hilariously titled Snoke, his decision to split up the new gang by the end, to end the movie on a cliffhanger, just a calvacade of bad decisions which had a ripple effect across the trilogy. Michael Arndt was the first writer attached to Disney's Star Wars, and wrote the first draft of the Force Awakens which focused more on the new generation, what a shame we never got that.
The point was to demonstrate that you don't have to be a Jedi to own a part of the force. It's in the text. Luke says this explicitly.
I don't know if posts like yours are intentionally misleading. But they don't recognize the plot or themes of TLJ. That scene makes the point that anyone can have power or be important, regardless of who they are. It expresses that through an orphan to call back to both Luke and Rey, both orphaned, one of who was decadent of a special bloodline and the other who (at the time) was not. It's meant to drill the point home that you don't have to belong to some selected ancestry to own the force, and you don't have to be some incredibly special and rare individual. You can be "a nobody" and still make a difference.
It's not that Sheev won completely. It's that Sheev won against the Skywalkers. He made them go extinct like he wanted them to and now he lives on in his grand-daughter because they're connected by blood forever
In retrospect, what was the point of Naomi Ackie's character? other than being some weird spin-off tease ("Lando and Jannah looking for her family")
I don't think she contributed to Finn's (barely existant) character growth... like, at all.
Did they really just avoid having some one-on-one between Finn and Rose?
yeah, no. The Skywalker name lives on, the Skywalker spirit lives on, the light side lives on.
Meanwhile: The sith are gone. The empire is gone. The Palpatine name is gone.
ouuuh, up to 25% of his DNA somehow lives on. Woop-dee-doo.
And where do you get the idea from that Palpatine wanted to make the Skywalkers go extinct? He wanted to rule the galaxy. That's been his plan from the get-go.
I don't think she contributed to Finn's (barely existant) character growth... like, at all.
Did they really just avoid having some one-on-one between Finn and Rose?
yeah, no. The Skywalker name lives on, the Skywalker spirit lives on, the light side lives on.
Meanwhile: The sith are gone. The empire is gone. The Palpatine name is gone.
ouuuh, up to 25% of his DNA somehow lives on. Woop-dee-doo.
And where do you get the idea from that Palpatine wanted to make the Skywalkers go extinct? He wanted to rule the galaxy. That's been his plan from the get-go.
His blood rejected him, his politics, and his name. Doesn't sound like a victory to me.
I assumed it was setting up a Disney+ show. In fact when Lando says "Lets find out..." I expected him to say on "...Disney+"
I wish they would have just recast the role. I mean, I get it, Carrie Fisher was special to this series but damn it's just a movie and not the first time another actor played the part of a fictional character
The entire First Order still exists. There was no big war between resistance and the first order. They destroyed a fleet pulled out of Palpatine's ass. The rest of the galaxy is unchanged compared to the end of TLJ. The only improvement is that the resistance has now the big civilian fleet from Dunkirk and there's no dark side force user. But now everybody can easily build planet destroying space ships it seems.
They got spooked so hard by the online reception of TLJ they retreated back to hollow, cowardly fan service. Despite TLJ being a critical and financial smash. Now Skywalker gets a critical drumming and a lukewarm fan reception. What a ride this trilogy has been lol.
Really wish they had made that more obvious. I'm sure there are many out there who didn't notice that nor recognise Qui Gonn and whatever other voices were there. I wish they had made them appear visually rather than just voices.
Probably was my biggest disappointment that we never actually saw Anakin/Hayden in these films with the closest thing being a damaged Vader mask.
Did you see the end of the movie? They went out of their way to show that the resistance took out the first order all over the galaxy. Not just on sith planet.
We saw First Order Star Destroyers go down around the Galaxy in that montage at the end. Somehow killing Palpatine brought them down or something?
And oh my god, the fucking romance aspect.
Like, okay, fine, Finn and Rose didn't have the greatest chemistry in TLJ. Legit complaint, I get it...
So you have them just....leave it there? Rose kisses Finn while thinking she was dying, he gets her to a med pack. Next movie, they are talking, but awkwardly avoiding having a real conversation. Finn is still trying to find a way to confess to Rey, whose into Kylo Ren turns out, while Finn apparently has Stormtrooper girl seem to be into him? I mean, they really seemed to have a connection going on there.
Like, pick what girl you want that guy to be into and develop it already.
Also, is Finn supposed to be force sensitive again in this movie?
Because he talks a lot about it and often just comes up with answers on the spot because "he feels it".
Like, okay, fine, Finn and Rose didn't have the greatest chemistry in TLJ. Legit complaint, I get it...
So you have them just....leave it there? Rose kisses Finn while thinking she was dying, he gets her to a med pack. Next movie, they are talking, but awkwardly avoiding having a real conversation. Finn is still trying to find a way to confess to Rey, whose into Kylo Ren turns out, while Finn apparently has Stormtrooper girl seem to be into him? I mean, they really seemed to have a connection going on there.
Like, pick what girl you want that guy to be into and develop it already.
Also, is Finn supposed to be force sensitive again in this movie?
Because he talks a lot about it and often just comes up with answers on the spot because "he feels it".
Yeah. I do think that if Ep 8 was more conventional this would have turned out maybe 15% less batshit crazy, but ultimately this is JJ's fuckup. There was nothing unsalvageable about TLJ, it was JJ and Terrio's choice to tell a story that frankly did not fit what came before, then overstuff it with insanity, then make some really bad choices to top it off.
I'll give Sheev a sneak W cause SW has cemented that it can't do anything new so you know one of Rey's descendants are gonna find out about grandpappy Sheev and pull a Kylo Ren to make Sheev proud.
He's probably not even dead anyway. By taking the name Skywalker Rey has double cursed herself with those legacies.
He's probably not even dead anyway. By taking the name Skywalker Rey has double cursed herself with those legacies.
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