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Star Wars: The Last Jedi |OT3| The War is Just Beginning (Unmarked Spoilers)
- Thread starter Bronx-Man
- Start date
I can't remember if this anecdote was shared in the doc or not, but amusingly, when Lucas visited the set. His first question was: "Why are you building so many sets? Use some green screens."
No, it was not. Lucas calling Rian and visiting the set was on the doc. But you don't actually see Lucas nor do you get his take on anything.
Rian's devotion to physical sets was impressive. Take the sea cow, for example. They could have just done a CGI thing. No. They constructed it, flew it by helicopter to Iceland, built all these roads and infrastructure on the island, lowered Mark and Daisey down there (looked pretty dangerous, they had sea rescue teams on stand by). Rian wanted the mist, the breeze, the ocean spray.
I have issues with TLJ (mostly Holdo) but I'm thinking as far as sets go it may be the most impressive and ambitious movie in history??
Not sure about that. I'd give that award to The Abyss or Titanic personally.
In terms of size I think Hobbiton might be the largest just because it's so spread out. Some other movies have gone to enormous lengths including Titanic making an almost full scale replica of the ship and the Matrix Reloaded building a damn highway loop.
An old friend of my brothers, who knows I'm a huge SW fan, finally saw TLJ and messaged me on FB about it. Here are his impressions:
Friend:IS IT TRUE THAT YOU LIKED THE LAST STAR WARS? ????
Friend: Bro. It was fucking horrific
Friend: Adam driver was the worst whiniest villain EVER .. the attempt at humor was off the mark and mis-timed. The scenes where he and she were "communicating" thru the force were unwatchable... with all the technology today those bird things could have been WAY better .. Carrie Fisher flying through open space was GAY as hell.. oh yea and Adam Driver was TERRIBLE ...
Friend: The porgs were cheap graphics it felt like.. idk. I feel like everything JJ Abrams does has a cheap feel to it.. misses depth.. I am not a fan. By any stretch ... you're actually the first person I have come across that liked the film. I respect that. I just feel like there was a void of authenticity .. the acting lacked depth in my opinion ... it felt like a long tv series on sci fi instead of an epic masterpiece. I almost missed Jar Jar ... lol
Friend: I guess im a traditionalist... I would have liked to see a more dramatic lead In to the story line between Kylo and Rey.... you're right .. some of the more critical mass of the plot were those Force Phone Calls lol... but I feel like it could have been more.. should have been deeper and more emotional build ... it lacked a cohesiveness I think for me .. and the opening scene with that prank phone call just set a BAD tone for me .. I hated that scene .. it felt like space balls more than the single greatest franchise in the history of film .. hamil was very good .. on that we can agree. He kept me in it for a while .. a little too predictable that he was hologramming at the end .... and for the LOVE OF GOD why did they have to rush so fast through that scene of "a day in the life of luke" and that Fish... come on .. it was so bad bro. It could have been so much better that scene. They could have taken their time with it .. that was indicative of a lot of scenes ... they were rushed and more implied than building depth and character of the plot...
Friend:IS IT TRUE THAT YOU LIKED THE LAST STAR WARS? ????
Friend: Bro. It was fucking horrific
Friend: Adam driver was the worst whiniest villain EVER .. the attempt at humor was off the mark and mis-timed. The scenes where he and she were "communicating" thru the force were unwatchable... with all the technology today those bird things could have been WAY better .. Carrie Fisher flying through open space was GAY as hell.. oh yea and Adam Driver was TERRIBLE ...
Friend: The porgs were cheap graphics it felt like.. idk. I feel like everything JJ Abrams does has a cheap feel to it.. misses depth.. I am not a fan. By any stretch ... you're actually the first person I have come across that liked the film. I respect that. I just feel like there was a void of authenticity .. the acting lacked depth in my opinion ... it felt like a long tv series on sci fi instead of an epic masterpiece. I almost missed Jar Jar ... lol
Friend: I guess im a traditionalist... I would have liked to see a more dramatic lead In to the story line between Kylo and Rey.... you're right .. some of the more critical mass of the plot were those Force Phone Calls lol... but I feel like it could have been more.. should have been deeper and more emotional build ... it lacked a cohesiveness I think for me .. and the opening scene with that prank phone call just set a BAD tone for me .. I hated that scene .. it felt like space balls more than the single greatest franchise in the history of film .. hamil was very good .. on that we can agree. He kept me in it for a while .. a little too predictable that he was hologramming at the end .... and for the LOVE OF GOD why did they have to rush so fast through that scene of "a day in the life of luke" and that Fish... come on .. it was so bad bro. It could have been so much better that scene. They could have taken their time with it .. that was indicative of a lot of scenes ... they were rushed and more implied than building depth and character of the plot...
Is there a source for this? I don't believe Lucas in the doc at all.
Bro Rey and Kylo TOTALLY. SHOULD. HAVE. HOOKED. UP.
Thank you, interesting I think I missed that one.
Yes George because green screening almost everything instead of building lots of sets definitely worked well in the PT.
This was how I rationalized it as well, although neither the film nor the novelization actually state this as Holdo's motivation. I'm not sure Johnson connected the thwarted desertions or the possobility of espionage with Holdo's decision to maintain secrecy. The only defense I've seen offered from Hidalgo and Johnson are military protocol and Poe's demotion. Neither explanation addresses the need for secrecy. I think it was a genuine oversight.
Being fair to George, so many people say he got the worldbuilding right in the prequels--a good chunk of that had to have been because of the insane use of CG if we're being honest about it.
No, the movies have aged like an open can of beer instead of fine wine. If you watch them in 2018 you'll see what a mistake the over-reliance on CGI actually was. Justice League stands a modern example of it (though the art itself was terrible as well).
The world building was better in the concepts themselves.. in the art that was created for the film itself.
Most of it looks fucking terrible now because it looks fake, like it was created by a computer screen instead of artistic talent.
If we're being honest about it
No matter how well it's aged, there's no debating that showing those locations greatly expanded the Star Wars universe. I am not saying that George did it right, the overuse of CG was a serious flaw--no debating that, but I think there's a sweet spot you can hit.
I don't know the ratio, but a good deal of sets are miniatures not strict CG creations. I know the Naboo city shots, Mos Espa Arena, Kamino interiors, Utapau, Mustafar, and many more were miniatures. Some were gigantic like Mustafar.
I honestly didn't care for any of the prequel planets aside from Coruscant which was already conceptualized prior to the prequels and maybe Naboo.
I feel like that sweetspot was already hit in TFA/TLJ, even R1. Pretty damn good examples of how to build sets and do CGI as as balanced mix. The CGI was a detriment to the world building, not an enhancer. I don't feel like the films accomplished a lot of effective world building.
Yeah, but the CGI drowns a lot of those practical effects out. If I remember right, lots of miniatures/practical stuff was used as placeholders/examples for CGI artists.
Oh, another cool bit from the doc. So for sets like ship bridges/cockpits, the throne room, casino, etc., the windows or backgrounds are typically green screens. On the set they had iPads that let you see what the green screen was actually going to look like as you moved it around. So snokes throne room was basically all green but through the ipad it was red like in the final movie. Pretty cool.
It still baffles me that people refuse to acknowledge that a lot of these threads were tied up and answered. Just because you may not have gotten the answers you wanted doesn't mean it was blown off. There's also a general misunderstanding of the plot in that article... the author actually complains that Kylo isn't worshiping Darth Vader anymore, as if that were an oversight and not the entire point of his arc in this film.
Just read that link myself. Article is even worse than I anticipated.
Yeah, this is what we call "complaints based on not understanding the plot". There's hundreds of posts/videos that are already in this pile.
Like, I get applying lazy criticisms just seeing the movie once and throwing around some off hand commentary. But when you put time and effort into posts that turn into essays, criticisms that turn into YT videos/articles and you got it all wrong, this becomes a roadblock instead of a conversation in film discussion.
And people wonder why folks point out that lots of criticisms aren't really criticisms at all but rather a failure to follow the story or information being presented.
Cuz it happens a lot
Bullshit clickbait article said:
This is literally the opposite of what the article is claming. It picks up where Kylo left off (transitioning from being a Vader wannabe to forging his own path).
Lol, at the bolded. It's like he figured out how wrong he was as he typed it up
Pretty good attempt at a clickbait article though
Adding some of my pennies worth of thoughts here.
Star Wars has always been about inspiring people in the real world, particularly kids, to rise up from meager/mundane/ordinary life to become positive world saving actors in their own families and communities. Anyone can rise up, overcome the temptations of evil, selfishness and darkness to be a beacon of light and restore the balance of good and justice in their world. The ST is offering nothing new here, but continuing the strong moral legacy of the OT. That's one of the reasons so many people have always loved the movies, and do love this new era of movies so far (including Rogue One).
In respect to the actual in universe rules of Star Wars... anyone can become a powerful force user IF they have the midichlorians. YES, I KNOW that word is anathema... and you may be shuddering, but I assure you that you should not be. I'm not.
Rey is a person who is force-sensitive enough that she has the potential to be a strong force-user. So was Anakin, so was Obi-Wan, so was Ahsoka, so was Kanan, so was Ezra, so was Yarael Poof, so was Luke, so was Leia (always), so is Broom-Boy. So presumably NOT is Finn, Poe, Han, Lando, Biggs, Sabine, Hera, Chewbacca, Wedge, Boba Fett, Snap Wexley, Rose, etc.
I think maybe anyone/everyone can SENSE the force.... maybe. Not everyone has the potential to USE the force.
Personally, I try not to get tripped up on something looking "real" or something looking "fake". While it's obvious some of the CG didn't age well, the story teller is setting a scene and not trying to convince you that the two human actors are actually swimming to an underwater city with a real gungan. This sort of comes off as me telling you not to think that way, but I don't mean it. I guess it's just one less emotional response that I tie to filmmaking.
For instance, the space battles in TLJ look like obvious CG (fake-camera perspective does look like a cartoon). I prefer the use of models. But, I get that Rian Johnson is showing me an X-Wing. In fact, did I hear right that there were no model ships created for filming in TLJ (other than sets)?
I would end this with "if we're being honest about it", but come on! I don't want to try and get smarmy here! I love talking Star Wars.
Just read this article
https://nerdist.com/star-wars-the-l...uide-akira-kurosawa-jurassic-park-twin-peaks/
I think is fantastic. And again makes another layer into TLJ
https://nerdist.com/star-wars-the-l...uide-akira-kurosawa-jurassic-park-twin-peaks/
I think is fantastic. And again makes another layer into TLJ
Part of good world building is making you believe in it though, whether it's the scene in ANH that's written well about politics or visual world building that shows us how Jedi children are taught by Yoda. When you're doing visual world building with a reliance on CGI, well if it looks terrible it's going to impact the story you're trying to tell.
For example, the idea of having an underworld Gungan civilization is great in concept and in the concept art, but the CGI is so bad for Jar Jar and everything else there that it's hard to buy into the story that's trying to be told.
So whether something looks "real" or "fake" has a huge impact on both the story and the world building. It either enhances or detracts from the film.
Whereas when you see the cantina in ANH, you immediately get the impression that you're in another galaxy, hanging out with scum who will turn on newcomers just for the fun of it. Or that you'll run into bounty hunters looking to make some money by turning somebody in. These experiences would have been drastically impacted if it were made in the 90s and everybody was CGI/the setting wasn't real.
Which is partly why you have people shit on the special editions. Because the forced CGI does impact how believable that world is and the background/history of it.
it's a common misperception that Lucas mostly used green screens in the prequels. He actually used an incredible amount of model/sets most of which people just assumed were completely CGI/green screens. It's the laziest most inaccurate complaint/criticism of the prequels.
lol another person who has no idea what they're talking about. George used more sets in the prequels than TFA and TLJ...it's not even close. I wish people stopped regurgitating falsehoods they heard on the internet.
takes two seconds to find the truth in a google search
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0cpRamEur4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhpFsO8wUoI
No one said they didn't use practical effects and models. Just that the end product is fucking drenched in CGI, which seemingly washed out a ton of fantastic art and talent.. I've said this extensively
So you can calm down
? ? What's the problem? People have found ways to like the prequels. So what.
More annoying to me are the people who've held onto hate and negativity to the exclusion of seeing any good in them. Not saying this is you or any one in here. It's not like some rule to be a true Star Wars fan you gotta rip on the prequels any opportunity you find. How about just let those movies be what they are at this point.
Receipts? Tell me all about the location shooting George did on AOTC and ROTS? Why do AOTC and ROTS look like video games when TFA and TLJ don't? Did George just really suck at shooting natural environments?
Not disputing their weren't practical effects in prequels. (Although no prequel had more sets than TLJ for sure), but this made me lol
Prequel stans and TLJ stans are two sides of the same coin lmao
And all three are reacting to Luke coming back. It was a nice little nod to Mark there.
I didn't know all three of Hamill's kids made it into The Last Jedi.
You can still have a conversation about it without being needlessly aggressive and combative.
Nah, just referring to the hostile prequel-stans that get angry at people criticizing them. People can like what they like, and I definitely like *aspects* of the prequels.
I happened to catch TFA when it aired on TNT yesterday and I caught the scene in which Rey refuses to sell BB8 to Unkar Plutt. I see that scene in a whole new light now knowing that her parents sold her off for drinking money. Wow. And who said RJ didn't carry through TFA's story threads ha.
So much character development happening without even saying a word about it. The visual storytelling in TFA is masterful.
