-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Star Wars: The Last Jedi |OT3| The War is Just Beginning (Unmarked Spoilers)
- Thread starter Bronx-Man
- Start date
Saw it again. The scene with Rose & Finn near the end is just completely asinine.
'We don't win by fighting what we hate, but fighting for the things that we love' (or something along those lines anyway)
Literally during that sentence it shows the 'battering ram' completely nuking the Resistance base.
Seeing the top-down shot of Finn racing towards the canon. How come not a single AT-M6 or AT-AT blasts him apart? There's still a sizeable distance between him and the cannon, but nothing. Then they crash and you get another top-down shot where Finn is running towards Rose's crash site and again.. not a single walker opens fire on them.
'We don't win by fighting what we hate, but fighting for the things that we love' (or something along those lines anyway)
Literally during that sentence it shows the 'battering ram' completely nuking the Resistance base.
Seeing the top-down shot of Finn racing towards the canon. How come not a single AT-M6 or AT-AT blasts him apart? There's still a sizeable distance between him and the cannon, but nothing. Then they crash and you get another top-down shot where Finn is running towards Rose's crash site and again.. not a single walker opens fire on them.
Jedi Master Rey has vanished.
In her absence, the dastardly FIRST ORDER (under new management) is unchallenged and will not rest until Rey, the last Jedi, has been destroyed.
From their secret base on the Millennium Falcon, General Finn leads a brave RESISTANCE. He is desperate to find his bae Rey and gain her help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy.
Finn has sent his most daring pilot on a secret mission to the desert planet Fakku, where an old ally has discovered a clue to Rey's whereabouts...
Let's assume he's not trolling, the only time it would be possible is that he was projecting himself onto the Raddus when he 'visits' Leia and Holdo walks in on him or something like that.
he's trolling
That power is actually seen in the old EU, and indeed would be a cool reveal and poetic one. Severing someone from the Force and Luke did that to himself. So it's possible.
Although, it would be an idea and finale solution copied from the Avatar series. Ironic, since Avatar is heavily influenced by Star Wars.
I mean wasn't also amajor theme of KotoR 2? I think it was at the same time at least rather than a copy of avatar, unless I'm mistaken.
Don't remember much about Kotor 2's story honestly, but you might be right that nobody really copied Avatar, since it's also the whole plot about the Yuzaan Vong being severed from the Force was before Avatar as well, if I am also not mistaken.
Severing yourself or others from the Force is one of those powers that are pretty obvious if you think about it. If you need to open yourself up to the Force, than you should be able to just shut yourself out from it too.
I don't know if it would make sense though for Rey or anybody else alive in the Star Wars universe to be able sever someone as powerful as Kylo Ren from the Force.
Yeah, huge themes of KotoR 2 include being severed from the force, it's one of the reasons why I love it because it's such an interesting topic.
That's an interesting take. I wouldn't mind it.
I also think that it would be quite a waste to kill Kylo or Rey in the next movie, they are still growing as interesting characters.
My girlfriend just finished watching Return of the Jedi and with that, she finished watching the original trilogy. A few notes:
- Upon finding out Leia is Luke's sister, her immediate reaction was "She is his sister? But she kissed him!" Lol, proving again that even the OT can be cringey.
- Upon seeing Hayden Christensen at the end she asked "Who is that?". The moment was lost on her because she hasnt seen the prequels. It's a small detail but for a first time viewer, you might have to watch the PT first.
- She thought The Emperor and Snoke were the same person so the death of The Emperor shocked her.
I like the idea of Kylo Ren being cut off from the force somehow. In a "You do not deserve to have this power" kind of way, that seems like quite a fitting end to me.
Looking back at Rose's final words again, I think part of the reason I love the sentiment behind them is that I never took them literally. As in, I never thought she was telling Finn "We will now win this fight, today, because of my actions.". I always heard her words as a statement of faith, or a belief in karma. That the light will overcome the darkness in the end, because the dark is coming from a place of hatred, violence and destruction. Goodness will overcome evil in the end. That kind of thing.
Looking back at Rose's final words again, I think part of the reason I love the sentiment behind them is that I never took them literally. As in, I never thought she was telling Finn "We will now win this fight, today, because of my actions.". I always heard her words as a statement of faith, or a belief in karma. That the light will overcome the darkness in the end, because the dark is coming from a place of hatred, violence and destruction. Goodness will overcome evil in the end. That kind of thing.
Thats sweet. I showed My girlfriend at the time 6 years ago Star Wars for the first time only the OT like you, but she hated them. Typical nerdy anime girl, but she hated Star Wars. :( Oh well.
Wait, people thought she literally meant that's how they would win THAT battle? And not as a general concept of philosophy?
If I was really sadistic I'd have him cut down the same way Anakin was and cut off from the force, he literally attains Vaderhood but experiences only the pain and none of the power.
That's a little too dark, especially when he's clearly not as evil as Vader. Kylo Ren is conflicted because everyone in his life fucking failed him. Luke, Leia, Han, and Snoke all failed him in one way or another. His fate should be something reasonable. He's allowed to live, the Skywalker bloodline continues, but they're permanently cut off from the Force.
What I think this story is building to he's more evil than Vader.
I'm not getting that vibe at all. I'm getting the vibe that he wants to be as evil as Vader, but he keeps failing along the way because he just doesn't have it in him. He's a fuck up, because everyone has let him down throughout his life. I think Rey ends up being the only person who doesn't give up on him.
I can buy that someone would cut themselves off from the Force, like Luke in TLJ.
But cutting someone else off from the Force sounds too much like "magic powers", and I'm that not into it, tbh.
The former is like "I've turned away from God", and is very human. It could even be appreciated in an atheistic context (I've turned my back on the way things should naturally be. I've turned my back on my destiny). While the latter is "hocus pocus, I've put a magic seal on you". I'm not into it, from a human storytelling perspective.
I wouldn't say it's that since he always wanted to be like Vader from the moment we met him. It's literally the concept od his whole persona. This movie is where he finally gives up on that and says "fuck everything that came before, let's be done with it and become who we are meant go be without the shackles of our predecessors."
Based on some of the criticisms I've read, it kind of looks that way. I could be wrong though.
Dunno man. It feels like you're almost making excuses for him here. I've not seen much evidence yet that would lead to me placing much of the blame for Ben's actions on anybody but Ben himself.
We know Snoke manipulated him. That's fair. And Luke openly admits that he failed Ben. But what did his parents do to him that in any way justified his actions? Outside of sending him away to be trained by his uncle, which Leia saw as a mistake, I haven't seen or heard of anything they did wrong. Hell, Han tries to help him on Starkiller base. Even tells Ben that he'll do anything to help him. Shows him nothing but love, even at the bitter end.
And on top of it all, he's now had more than one chance to turn back towards the light anyway, and he keeps refusing when people show him compassion. Nah, I think we're past the point of treating Ben reasonably. Though I don't know if I agree that he should be chopped up Anakin-style, lol.
The entire premise of TFA was Snoke pushing Kylo to kill Han and eliminate the shackle of his past. He seeks out Luke for much the same reason. From the beginning, Kylo Ren is out to eliminate the people whom he feels screwed him up. In the first film, we find out how Leia and Han messed him up, and in TLJ, we find out how Luke and Snoke failed him. He looks up to Darth Vader and wants to be like him because Vader was a figure of raw power who used that power to wipe out the established order, to wipe out his past. He killed Anakin Skywalker and became something new.
Hello Star Wars Era.
I have seen this movie once on opening night. I liked it, on the whole. Many divisive things are cool with me; Snoke getting offed, Grumpy Luke, Ben's reason for heel turning, Rey's lineage - loved all that. However some things have not sat right with me. One I am just going to shrug off, which is Leia flying back to the ship after being blown into space. Whatever. The second is a little more difficult for me (and hopefully a second viewing will help with this) so here goes (and please be nice here as you school me...):
Luke's Force Projection. For me, it didn't feel like that moment was earned, like, at all. While a fully acknowledge there were some clues there - the change in appearance from his hermit look - the whole "aha gotcha!" felt a little cheap. I liken it, in some ways, to the "Khan" moment in Into Darkness (that particular instance I have a much better grasp on so let's not go there, please) where it felt like it was just dropped in our laps for cheap nostalgia (though Luke's thing is not nostalgia). This just felt... I dunno, kinda empty as a dramatic turn. The ramifications and reactions are all totally fine - but the reveal itself just left me going "Ok, I guess you can do that now?". Unless I missed some really subtle foreshadowing or outside of the outfit change, it's the only part of the movie that feels hollow, like a deus ex machina(?). Apologies if I've not really explained myself very well but it's really the only point in the movie that gives me pause.
PLEASE BE KIND.
I have seen this movie once on opening night. I liked it, on the whole. Many divisive things are cool with me; Snoke getting offed, Grumpy Luke, Ben's reason for heel turning, Rey's lineage - loved all that. However some things have not sat right with me. One I am just going to shrug off, which is Leia flying back to the ship after being blown into space. Whatever. The second is a little more difficult for me (and hopefully a second viewing will help with this) so here goes (and please be nice here as you school me...):
Luke's Force Projection. For me, it didn't feel like that moment was earned, like, at all. While a fully acknowledge there were some clues there - the change in appearance from his hermit look - the whole "aha gotcha!" felt a little cheap. I liken it, in some ways, to the "Khan" moment in Into Darkness (that particular instance I have a much better grasp on so let's not go there, please) where it felt like it was just dropped in our laps for cheap nostalgia (though Luke's thing is not nostalgia). This just felt... I dunno, kinda empty as a dramatic turn. The ramifications and reactions are all totally fine - but the reveal itself just left me going "Ok, I guess you can do that now?". Unless I missed some really subtle foreshadowing or outside of the outfit change, it's the only part of the movie that feels hollow, like a deus ex machina(?). Apologies if I've not really explained myself very well but it's really the only point in the movie that gives me pause.
PLEASE BE KIND.
Throughout the movie we see Rey and Ben "projecting" themselves to each other through the connection made by Snoke. Ben even remarks that "the effort would kill her" if she were doing it entirely by herself. What Luke did is an extension of that, except his projection is so strong that it isn't confined to one person. Only Ben and Rey could see each other. Luke was perceived by everyone on Crait, even by a droid like 3PO.
As long as there is a lightsaber duel beforehand where Rey pulverizes him, I'm fine with it.
You're talking about an audience that sees broom kid as a future protagonist instead of as the personification of the film's themes.
I was finally able to watch this in theaters yesterday in the evening. I could not find any tickets during the evening coupled with IMAX over the last 3-4 weeks.
Let me out a few positives before turning negative:
+ Kylo Ren was pretty much what I wanted him to turn out. Conflicted, brutal yet resilient. His inner struggle with the light/dark side was even more evident in this film than TFA.
In the entire film you can see his desperation of finding someone who he can build his new order with. He has been spat in his face by Snoke during his training, and by Luke trying to kill him.
I can understand the hate that he had for Luke in the end. His hope for Rey joining him has been demolished, and the one person who he looked up to when he was young, the legendary 'Jedi Master', was standing in front of him.
Some may find him being too emo when he wanted everyone to shoot on Luke. I pretty much find it the perfect portrayal for someone who truly hates another individual. Blinded by hate. Not seeing what was actually standing before his eyes.
+ Poe, for me, is the absolute star of the show. Oscaar Isaac does an amazing job portraying a character that is willing to do everything for the resistance, but that is also his blindspot.
His rage of fury during the moments when he sees Lando fueling the transports, taking over command but then later coming to realize that it was all part of the plan, was the highlight for me.
+ Daisy Ridley portraying Rey does quite an amazing job. Her entire role is intriguing. She came from absolutely nowhere. Her parents were 'no one' as Kylo has so elegantly said to her.
I am definitely wondering how the next installment will turn out. Perhaps it'll even be 10-15 years later? With Rey having build a Jedi Academy and the resistance being bigger?
Now for the negatives..
Despite the positives being there, I can't help but have the feeling that I honestly believe TFA is still much better.
- I just somehow couldn't stand Mark Hamill portraying Luke. Old characters are being thrown in there just for the sake of pleasing the fans (that is how I see it).
The ending scene with Luke semi-hugging Leia is indeed incredibly powerful, and perhaps one of the best scenes in the previous 2 movies, but everything else was just pointless filler.
His ''training'' with Rey involved ''feeling the force'' - That is the entire scene we actually witnessed Luke training her. This was absolutely nothing like Yoda training Luke in The Empire Strikes Back.
Is that an unfair comparison? Perhaps. Nothing can ever top ESB in my book, but they could have at least put some more effort in Luke not being an asshole and actually helping Rey.
- My biggest criticism with this movie was the fact that it just switched between storylines way too often. We see Poe battling the Order. We see Rey with Luke. Finn finding the Codemaster. Kylo communicating with Snoke.
It just kept switching back and forth between these 4 narratives. They do eventually come together in the end, but there was never enough time to build a certain amount of chemistry between characters. Damn shame.
And don't even get me started about that Asian chick kissing Finn right before she passed out. That made me cringe extremely hard.
There was absolutely no point for that scene bar for the fact that the directors don't want the usual ''Rey & Finn'' love. Come on!
- Now.. About Snoke....... Yeah we're done.
- The last negative is that I absolutely missed the Storm Troopers. They always played a pivotal role in the Star Wars movies.
I can understand that they are going for an entirely new approach where 'the old will take place for the new', but that doesn't mean we have to give up on everything.
Out of the last 3 Star Wars movies I find TFA the one movie that absolutely blew me away.
I am going to end my post with my rating list of Star Wars (I am never talking about the prequels)
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. TFA
3. Roque One
4. A New Hope
5 TLJ.
6. ROTJ
Let me out a few positives before turning negative:
+ Kylo Ren was pretty much what I wanted him to turn out. Conflicted, brutal yet resilient. His inner struggle with the light/dark side was even more evident in this film than TFA.
In the entire film you can see his desperation of finding someone who he can build his new order with. He has been spat in his face by Snoke during his training, and by Luke trying to kill him.
I can understand the hate that he had for Luke in the end. His hope for Rey joining him has been demolished, and the one person who he looked up to when he was young, the legendary 'Jedi Master', was standing in front of him.
Some may find him being too emo when he wanted everyone to shoot on Luke. I pretty much find it the perfect portrayal for someone who truly hates another individual. Blinded by hate. Not seeing what was actually standing before his eyes.
+ Poe, for me, is the absolute star of the show. Oscaar Isaac does an amazing job portraying a character that is willing to do everything for the resistance, but that is also his blindspot.
His rage of fury during the moments when he sees Lando fueling the transports, taking over command but then later coming to realize that it was all part of the plan, was the highlight for me.
+ Daisy Ridley portraying Rey does quite an amazing job. Her entire role is intriguing. She came from absolutely nowhere. Her parents were 'no one' as Kylo has so elegantly said to her.
I am definitely wondering how the next installment will turn out. Perhaps it'll even be 10-15 years later? With Rey having build a Jedi Academy and the resistance being bigger?
Now for the negatives..
Despite the positives being there, I can't help but have the feeling that I honestly believe TFA is still much better.
- I just somehow couldn't stand Mark Hamill portraying Luke. Old characters are being thrown in there just for the sake of pleasing the fans (that is how I see it).
The ending scene with Luke semi-hugging Leia is indeed incredibly powerful, and perhaps one of the best scenes in the previous 2 movies, but everything else was just pointless filler.
His ''training'' with Rey involved ''feeling the force'' - That is the entire scene we actually witnessed Luke training her. This was absolutely nothing like Yoda training Luke in The Empire Strikes Back.
Is that an unfair comparison? Perhaps. Nothing can ever top ESB in my book, but they could have at least put some more effort in Luke not being an asshole and actually helping Rey.
- My biggest criticism with this movie was the fact that it just switched between storylines way too often. We see Poe battling the Order. We see Rey with Luke. Finn finding the Codemaster. Kylo communicating with Snoke.
It just kept switching back and forth between these 4 narratives. They do eventually come together in the end, but there was never enough time to build a certain amount of chemistry between characters. Damn shame.
And don't even get me started about that Asian chick kissing Finn right before she passed out. That made me cringe extremely hard.
There was absolutely no point for that scene bar for the fact that the directors don't want the usual ''Rey & Finn'' love. Come on!
- Now.. About Snoke....... Yeah we're done.
- The last negative is that I absolutely missed the Storm Troopers. They always played a pivotal role in the Star Wars movies.
I can understand that they are going for an entirely new approach where 'the old will take place for the new', but that doesn't mean we have to give up on everything.
Out of the last 3 Star Wars movies I find TFA the one movie that absolutely blew me away.
I am going to end my post with my rating list of Star Wars (I am never talking about the prequels)
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. TFA
3. Roque One
4. A New Hope
5 TLJ.
6. ROTJ
Oh definitely. She needs to beat his ass down, then spare him the killing blow before proclaiming something like, "You betrayed everyone who ever loved you. You destroyed everything. You failed, and you do not deserve this power".
Something like that would do me :-)
There's only one 'traditional' training scene because Luke isn't trying to teach Rey to be a Jedi. He's trying to demonstrate why they no longer have a place in the universe and need to end. It's a different dynamic compared to Luke and Yoda in Empire.
I had to laugh when some websites rushed to speculate that he'd be the main protagonist of Rian's trilogy. It flew right over their heads.
Is that why people like to rag on that scene? I have seen people scoff at the scene and the kid but I never quite knew why.
You mean that dude who claimed to have seen an outline? Whatever his name was....
He's not trying to teach Rey how to be a jedi. He's literally trying to do the opposite since his idea of "helping" is making sure that the jedi order never rises again, and that includes detering a wide eyed possible student.
Perhaps my interpretation is wrong then. It just wasn't the Luke I thought he would have become.
That's judging the movie on what it isn't rather than on what it is though. Your expectations are baggage on your viewing experience.
I'm sure Luke himself would agree. Most people can't predict the future. And 30 years is a LONG time.
Last edited:
Indeed. I'm certainly not the person I thought I would become 30 years ago. I'd wager the vast majority of people are not.
You're right, but unfortunately we can say that to almost anything and it still works.
Fans will go even more apeshit than they are now if the Skywalker bloodline is cut off from the force for eternity.
Funny thing is that Mark Hamill's portrayal of Luke in TLJ is too real (depressed and feeling guilty but wise old man) for the fans. It's anything but "for the sake of pleasing the fans".
The funny thing too, with these fans insisting that this shits on Lucas's vision, is that Luke being a washed-up hermit who begrudgingly agrees to take on a young woman as his new trainee is straight out of Lucas's treatments for the new trilogy. This is what Lucas wanted for Luke.
Can't wait for that future SW movie where we see Rey, old and bitter, sulking alone somewhere because her abandonment issues never let her properly attach to anyone.
Yeah it seems pretty obvious. That was some friendzone shit.
I'm not actually sure how I feel about that one.
I think I just see it as mild shock, like he'd never looked at Rose that way, and it was over in a split-second so he never got the chance to register properly and react.
I'm still a little befuddled by people clinging to the bloodline thing. Like, Jedi weren't allowed to procreate (right?), where are these bloodlines coming from? Was that ever a thing before this whole weirdness regarding Rey?