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Star Wars: The Last Jedi |OT3| The War is Just Beginning (Unmarked Spoilers)
- Thread starter Bronx-Man
- Start date
Reading through the pages written last night, that FO civil war is an interesting idea. I would like that. It would be interesting if the Knights of Ren vision and the rainy battlefield was a part of that civil war.
As for Kylo and Snoke, my impression on the first view was that Kylo decided to kill Snoke when he started bragging about how he manipulated this and that and made everybody acted as he wanted. Snoke was saying that for Rey, but Kylo was also a "victim" of the same treatment.
As for Kylo and Snoke, my impression on the first view was that Kylo decided to kill Snoke when he started bragging about how he manipulated this and that and made everybody acted as he wanted. Snoke was saying that for Rey, but Kylo was also a "victim" of the same treatment.
I imagine she wouldn't be interested in some MCU like thing where she appears in more or less connected SW stories fairly regularly for the next decade+ or a Rey solo film trilogy, but I don't think she'd say no to having a decent sized role in Epi X-XII in 2025-2029 or something.
It's funny you highlight Ridley, I feel like it's Driver that would be the less likely.
He's legitimately top tier, and I could see him spending the next ten or so years focused on more 'mature' material.
I thought it was clear that Kylo had foreseen killing Snoke before actually entering the throne room.
He tells Rey "I know when the moment comes you'll stand with me"
I also think that Rey's vision of Kylo coming back to the light was mistaken for his decision to kill Snoke and side with her, momentarily. She sensed that turn and thought it meant he'd come back.
So she was right about sensing the good in him and the light he shares with her (they both want to help each other) but wrong about him ultimately turning.
Since she naturally sees the good in people, she jumped to a conclusion emotionally, without thinking it through.
That's my take so far anyway.
He tells Rey "I know when the moment comes you'll stand with me"
I also think that Rey's vision of Kylo coming back to the light was mistaken for his decision to kill Snoke and side with her, momentarily. She sensed that turn and thought it meant he'd come back.
So she was right about sensing the good in him and the light he shares with her (they both want to help each other) but wrong about him ultimately turning.
Since she naturally sees the good in people, she jumped to a conclusion emotionally, without thinking it through.
That's my take so far anyway.
We don't really know that. Ridley seems happy to be in Star Wars. She just doesn't want to do it forever, which is fair enough. I think Driver enjoys doing them as well. He's just not too keen on the media circus. I don't expect him to continue past IX though.
None of them are at Alec Guinness levels of hating it yet haha.
Because she was drunk... like Rey's mother... coincidence ?
Alcohol + Midichlorians = Best Jedi
*shrugs* for all your talk, you're just expressing the beliefs of certain characters in the series. There is definitely a belief within the Star Wars universe that the force has a manifestation or will.
You're basically saying 'there is no god' and well, prove it.
Oh for sure Driver too. His star is already launched and ascending rapidly. I think Daisy will be next once she wraps IX.
I'd imagine the racists, sexists and other bigots would have much more to do with whatever unpleasantness these people have with being associated with SW than being a part of the critically acclaimed movie much liked by almost everyone that is one of the top movies of all time box office result wise.
The Force clearly has a will if Snoke is to be believed that Ren ensured there would be a Rey. If for every notable dark side Force user, there will be a light side counterpart, and even if one hasn't naturally occurred, the Force will 'awaken' one.
I take the concept of the 'balance' to be that the Force doesn't want good or bad to win, it wants the struggle. It wants the test. Maybe because people are at their greatest when driven, and nothing provides drive like wanting to conquer the Galaxy or end the Space Nazi rule.
I take the concept of the 'balance' to be that the Force doesn't want good or bad to win, it wants the struggle. It wants the test. Maybe because people are at their greatest when driven, and nothing provides drive like wanting to conquer the Galaxy or end the Space Nazi rule.
Being a complete sucker for a story about heroic sacrifice, I absolutely love Rogue One. I've been hugely impressed with the new Star Wars films in general, but I think Rogue One is probably my personal favourite. Every time I watch it, it's just over too quickly. I want it to go on longer, but at the same time I appreciate that the story has momentum and an immovable end point.
The characters are great, I think. I always enjoy the way Jyn and Casian bounce off each other, with their argument about what it means to be a rebel. Chirrut and Baze are wonderful together, and it seems to me that those parts were played with real heart. They're good, dedicated men of honour and faith. I actually admire them, probably because I don't really have faith in anything in real life (but really wish that I had). I loved their place in the setting, Jeda was such a cool location, and for me it's really interesting thinking about the people who lived their entire lives trusting in the goodness and strength of the Jedi. The atmosphere is wonderful, with the collapsed statues and violence in the air.
I thought it tied in beautifully with the OT as well. I can't think of any plot holes or inconsistencies with the original material. And I liked the new revelation that Kyber Crystals were used to power the Death Star (although I'm no lore hound, so maybe that wasn't a surprise to most people?). The ending was brilliant as well. That mad, frantic rush to ensure that someone, anyone escapes with the one little disc that holds the hope of the entire galaxy, as Darth Vader pursues in proper menacing, terrifying fashion. Loved it. All of it.
Most of the visual effects blew me away as well (Tarkington and Leia were believable, but still a touch iffy). Genuinely, I don't think I've ever seen Star Destroyers so beautifully lit.
It's a bloody great film, I think.
Went to see TLJ again at the weekend. Enjoyed it just as much the second time.
Mark Hamill is fantastic in this film. I never quite noticed on my first viewing. He gives it everything, right down to all the little facial expressions that completely sell a believable performance, and in fact elevate it to something more special. I've never seen him as good.
The characters are great, I think. I always enjoy the way Jyn and Casian bounce off each other, with their argument about what it means to be a rebel. Chirrut and Baze are wonderful together, and it seems to me that those parts were played with real heart. They're good, dedicated men of honour and faith. I actually admire them, probably because I don't really have faith in anything in real life (but really wish that I had). I loved their place in the setting, Jeda was such a cool location, and for me it's really interesting thinking about the people who lived their entire lives trusting in the goodness and strength of the Jedi. The atmosphere is wonderful, with the collapsed statues and violence in the air.
I thought it tied in beautifully with the OT as well. I can't think of any plot holes or inconsistencies with the original material. And I liked the new revelation that Kyber Crystals were used to power the Death Star (although I'm no lore hound, so maybe that wasn't a surprise to most people?). The ending was brilliant as well. That mad, frantic rush to ensure that someone, anyone escapes with the one little disc that holds the hope of the entire galaxy, as Darth Vader pursues in proper menacing, terrifying fashion. Loved it. All of it.
Most of the visual effects blew me away as well (Tarkington and Leia were believable, but still a touch iffy). Genuinely, I don't think I've ever seen Star Destroyers so beautifully lit.
It's a bloody great film, I think.
Went to see TLJ again at the weekend. Enjoyed it just as much the second time.
Mark Hamill is fantastic in this film. I never quite noticed on my first viewing. He gives it everything, right down to all the little facial expressions that completely sell a believable performance, and in fact elevate it to something more special. I've never seen him as good.
Have you been paid? You should have been paid. You can really pull off the fan in fanatic.
Well, I was being sarcastic. I've got nice things to say about it too. It's beautifully shot.
I also liked the porgs.
I just noticed less enthusiasm in interviews for example.
Even as a joke this doesn't really work since the acting is great and it was critically acclaimed. Unless you're referring at the online abuse from "fans" that they are getting.
I also believe this is pretty much why Rey exists. If you notice in The Force Awakens, she doesn't even use her Force powers UNTIL she touches Anakin's lightsaber and has that vision. I think that was the "awakening" so to speak. I believe she inherited the role of the Chosen One in response to Ben Solo falling to the dark side.
I think this is why Snoke clearly said the more powerful Kylo gets, the more powerful Rey gets. There's a connection between the two there that hasn't been quite explained yet. Kylo also speaks to Rey with familiarity in The Force Awakens.
It just doesn't make much sense for it to be sentient and "willing" dumb shit like the balance of the Force. The Jedi and Sith can believe and preach it all they want, ultimately it's just likely this stuff is somewhat cyclical just by virtue of the nature of man/sentient beings than a force of the universe actually creating creatures of opposite sides to fight each other. Rey is only a Jedi rising to fight against evil Kylo because Kylo exists and is doing things that warrant people opposing him, not to restore balance.
I think the balance thing is better if it's taken as a religious belief that simply manifests itself because that's just how shit goes. When the Jedi are in power for a time, maybe corruption among them increases or the number of people who are dissatisfied at their decisions/actions will grow and one of those dissidents could be the next Palpatine like figure who is strong & cunning enough to gain power to overthrow the Jedi. Then that person will rule, people will rebel and from somewhere there will rise a powerful Jedi who can beat the evil Sith lord. Rince and repeat for-fucking-ever without any kind of "balance" ever actually being achieved.
That's understandable, moving from rather unknown actors getting big roles in Star Wars to SW veterans.
Let's be honest: TLJ is a movie that plays against tropes and expectations, and as such it's often not very flattering for the people working in it. Rey's role in TLJ is a lot less central, and Ridley gets a lot less to do; Boyega's demoted to "sideplot B character"; Driver clearly has a career outside SW and doesn't want to get burnt in the role (similarly to how Ford felt); Hamill well, it mustn't have been easy working with Hamill with the way Hamill felt about the plot (Hamill himself jokes about how everyone was fed up with him on set).
It's also an Hollywood "rumor" that Johnson isn't particularly easy to work with; JGL always had praise for him as a director but also said that working on those movies was exausting. They may just be legitimately tired.
The disgruntlement is part of it, yes, that's what drove Lucas away from Star Wars in the first place. The acting is TLJ is ok, not Prequel bad, but it's nothing to write home about (Driver is the best of the bunch). It's not the actors fault, the script just hampers them. I don't think this movie will be that acclaimed in a few years - but we'll see. This is of course just my personal opinion, so, whoever is reading this, don't get worked up about it.
Just to clarify: Kubrick helmed some of the best movies in cinema history, and yet actors absolutely hated working with him. Sometimes the two things go hand in hand. For example, Ridley's incredible enthusiasm for JJ's return to helm the franchise could lead us to think she prefers working with him.
Which can hardly he blamed when you realize that these actors have done almost nothing but live and breathe Star Wars for 4 years now, with another 2 years to go.
Shoot TFA in 2014/2015, promote TFA worldwide for months in 2015.
Shoot TLJ in 2016/2017, promote TLJ worldwide for months in 2017.
Shoot IX in 2018/2019, promote IX worldwide for months in 2019.
That's almost 6 years of non-stop preparing for/filming/talking about/promoting Star Wars.
One could see how one could get burnt out.
I cried with relief when I discovered Treverrow was gone too.
Ridley is not a big SW fan (I don't mean that as a fault tbh). Do you think (aside from the obvious career boost) she is really interested in her character and its prospects? From a young actress perspective wanting to show muscle in order to be taken seriously later. Serious question.
Lmao for real, was it years of joy for JJ, or years of joy for anyone but Trevorrow
I actually felt bad about how happy I was that Trevorrow got shit canned.
Ironically, I hadn't seen Lord & Miller's films until after they got fired, so I was retroactively angry at that news.
I remember when they said they were doing EP7, I thought it was the stupidest idea ever. Just leave it the fuck alone. And even as someone who doesn't like JJ's films, I was like, damn, that is the perfect person to give it to.
Ironically, I hadn't seen Lord & Miller's films until after they got fired, so I was retroactively angry at that news.
I remember when they said they were doing EP7, I thought it was the stupidest idea ever. Just leave it the fuck alone. And even as someone who doesn't like JJ's films, I was like, damn, that is the perfect person to give it to.
TBH, everyone is always super excited to do anything and work with anyone. These BTS things are so glossy for promotional purpose, it is so hard to have a gut feeling. Not saying they are being silenced, but it is normal not to be down for everything, everyone has his/her vision of his/her character/movie.
She did apparently cry when Trevorrow told her Rey´s fate in IX (link). It does make me hope some of Treverrow´s stuff gets leaked somewhere down the line, just to read what he had planned.
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That's an interesting point actually.
Rian's talked about sitting down with JJ, talking about where he thinks his film has left off, and which threads could potentially be picked up, etc. But Trevorrow already wrote a film, and presumably JJ's read it, it's not like they don't know each other.
I wonder if it was as simple as Trevorrow's out, lets start from scratch. Blank page.
What about TFA too? The way JJ talks about it, it's like there was nothing when he started, but there was already a script, did none of it survive? Arndt still has a writing credit on the finished film. The guild obviously think enough of his work survived to have him included.
To claim Mark has been anything but enthusastic would be a complete falsehood. Mark has called Rian the greatest director of his career and the best filmmaking experience of his life.
This doesn't mean at all that the Force has a will. The Force could just be like nature. I mean, there is balance achieved in nature (until people fuck it up) with no guiding "will" behind it. I'd say "Life finds a way" but even that implies a will (when that's not what Ian Malcolm meant, and not what took place in JP).
"This cherry-picked 2 second gif of an old man briefly zoning out says otherwise!!!"
How does nature have a balance? Animals evolve to adapt to the naturally available resources, but that process is in no way separate from the 'people fucking it up'.
Jurassic Park is not set in the Star Wars universe, so I don't really see what your point is. In JP there isn't a God directing things, that doesn't mean there isn't in Star Wars. In JP, the scientists chose to use DNA from a type of frog that can change gender after birth. That's a failing of the humans. In Star Wars, Rey becomes equal in Force capability to Ren in like three days, because the Force wills it.
It seems pretty simple, if the Force has no will, then how does Rey become OP overnight? TLJ seems pretty clearly to state that the Force does have a will.
I'm trying to break the circlejerk by showing not everything with TLJ and its reception is as black and white, fine and dandy, as some would like to believe. I may be doing it in a cheeky manner, a stark contrast to some who get excessively aggressive about this stuff, but I'm not doing it just for 'trolling'.
Truly important work. Deserving of credit.
Oh, and I call bullshit on that last part.
No one's saying it doesn't have flaws. It's just that nearly all of the flaws being presented in this thread are fanboy nitpicks and not legitimate story-telling problems.
Also, yes, that gif was really insightful stuff. Absolutely not trolling.
Using Mark Hamill who takes offense to anyone trying to claim he was anything but enthusiastic about the film is a pretty foolish way to go about "breaking the circlejerk" man.
Using a gif of Hamill that contradicts his actual feelings on the film is not adding anything, it's just empty trolling.
I'm not sure this makes sense given what happened in TLJ. The whole point of Luke in TLJ is to demonstrate how the old Jedi Order was bad. Yoda even says students are what mentors move beyond.
As I see it, a more appropriate path for Rey in IX is dealing with the fact that she has to kill Kylo but she's reluctant to do it. Eventually, she's convinced it's gotta happen. Some people gotta get got. Then she wrecks him. And the Knights of Ren.