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Star Wars: The Last Jedi |OT3| The War is Just Beginning (Unmarked Spoilers)
- Thread starter Bronx-Man
- Start date
I don't know that they say the battle is what gave them the time to track the fleet(I could be wrong though). Could be as soon as they arrived they started tracking the Raddus. Also remember when Poe suggests that they blow the ship tracking them up, Finn and Rose say another ship will just start tracking them. That means any ship could have started tracking them not just the Supremacy.
The Empire not destroying R2 and C3PO's pod is definitely weird. Why would it matter if there are life forms or not? To save ammo? I doubt it would cost the Empire much.
It's not the first time that particular plot hole has been discussed and it's, in my opinion, a more problematic one than the one you are discussion from The Last Jedi, about the Dreadnaught not destroying the fleet first.
They simply were ready to go in and destroy the base, the first obvious and immovable target, as opposed to starships that could run away at any moment. They would've only destroyed one cruiser anyway, and not the rest of the fleet (like the Ninka, where Holdo was) and the only reason the Resistance cruiser (The Raddus) was within range of the Dreadnaught still was because of Poe's actions.
Leia told him to go back immediately. And it's very likely (judging by how hyperspace tracking is explained in the ICS) that Poe's attack on the Dreadnaught gave the FO enough time to track the Raddus.
It was definitely his mission to distract them, Leia says "Good job" to him and ask to him to come back.
It's an algorithm (and some other tech) generated from the Supremacy and shared amongst the fleet, but it's true that so far, there's not a good explanation about how would the other Star Destroyers manage to track the fleet too.
In fact, the Supremacy (as far as I can tell) isn't in orbit around D'Qar during the opening battle, so how did they track them in the first place? My guess is that most of the FO has hyperspace tracking and the Supremacy was in charge of the tracking during the main pursuit of the movie, but that other SD were capable of it as well.
Leia called Poe back as soon as the ships were all evacuated, so his mission was definitely to buy time. Like you say he went ahead and continued with the bomber plan because it was going well. It was pretty obvious that the bomber unit was his to command.
I think his mission is "buy us time by destroying the dreadnought" since he is trying to take out the cannons specifically so they wont shoot the bombers down. Leia just decides to abandon the plan once the last transport takes off because they no longer need any more time, they are ready to go.
The first time it's mentioned is when Hux is being confronted by Snoke. He's all like "Don't worry boss, we may still have them yet!"
The bombers were there to protect the fleet during the evacuation, but not there to destroy the Dreadnaught in the moment. And Poe is a Commander in that fleet, so he had the authority in that moment to use the bombers as he pleased. Leia told him to go back but she knew it was also too late to turn the bombers back in time for them to escape the Dreadnoughts attack.
None of this needs to be spelled out in the movie for anyone to understand it or come up with easy explanations. Every single battle in Star Wars is capable of resulting in questions like these, which is understandable, but not necessary to enjoying the story of the movie.
Apparently only one ship at a time can do it and if they took down the tracker it would take the FO around 6 minutes to figure it out allowing them to escape.
But why enjoy something, when being pointlessly analytical and cynical is soooo much more fun!
Thanks. So it was tied to the supremacy showing up.... but I thought they said that all ships had this??
For me 'no life signs aboard' is the thinnest of justifications, but at least it's something. Contrast that to 'these are the most valuable assets of the Resistance that also stand a likely chance of having its top leadership on board'. The other aspect is that this scenario is used as the inciting incident for Poe, so it's something that hurt his arc for me throughout the film.
I can see where you're coming from though! Without the conceit of that escape pod getting away? No OT and ST by extension. :P
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They mention something about messing up the tracking for a few minutes to give the resistance ships a chance to jump away while The First Order still thinks their tracking works. An extremely convoluted way for the writers to justify the need for the "codebreaker" instead of just blowing up the ship. I guess they really wanted that trip to the Casino planet.
I like this and hope it is the case when I see the movie next.
Nah, he was definite about it, that was just my phrasing, sorry. He said something about the noose tightening? I can't recall the exact phrasing, right now, but he was certain that he had them.
Speaking of Hux, he only has to take one look at the BoudoirCam to see that Kylo was telling fibs about Rey offing Snoke. I look forward to seeing the fallout in IX; fingers crossed that Ren forced out and on the run from the First Order and the new Rebellion.
TLJ really set up the First Order for some grade A commanding chaos. I could very well see them break into two factions. Hux' Troopers vs. Kylo's Knights.
Yeah, I mean, how did the Falcon travel three star systems to Bespin without hyperspace, within a couple of days (at the most) when not being able to get away far was the whole point of the Falcon's pursuit through the asteroid field?
But the Resistance Fleet is outside of the FO flleet's and Dreadnought's range - except the orbital guns. This is shown both by the FO not firing on the Resistance and not scrambling fighters and also by Poe lone-wolfing it to the Dreadnaught (and then turbo boosting). So, why did he do it in the first place? If the bombing run wasn't ordered, why go for the main deck guns and not the orbital cannons?
Exactly. Everybody seems to be ignoring (surprise) Holdo's reaction to the plan: "A whoever and a former Stormtrooper are doing what so that they can do what stupid thing!?" Holdo's reaction is the movie telling you that Poe fucked up by trying that stupid plot.
I think it maybe referring to stuff like this...
It does seem like a thing in here sometimes.
Actually that makes me wonder, did they say that it was three star systems away in the script? I thought they did enough by saying that it was 'far' but within the realm of 'close by'. At least in the film I don't think that they referred to Bespin as outside of the Anoat system?
http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Empire-Strikes-Back.html
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For sure. I want him to really make good on "letting the old things die". That includes the First Order. It was necessary to leverage their might when razing villages as Vader-lite, but recasting the Knights of Ren as Gunpowder Plot-esque revolutionaries is as good a reason as any to put them back in the spotlight.
I was thinking of the situation earlier - the bombers come in after Poe deals with the turrets, but there's no other reason to deal with the turrets than to use the bombers.
Anyway, I just like to poke holes, these things don't bother me that much, as I've already mentioned earlier in the thread. My beef with TLJ is structural and thematic ;)
I was wondering this too. Either way, I feel as though things aren't going to end well between those two. Heck, how likely will it be that Kylo offs Hux in the first half of IX?
Ah, but we forget: Hoth itself was a system. "The third planet of the Hoth system".
So they traveled from the Hoth system, to the Anoat system, and then to the system Bespin is in (not the same as Anoat), all without hyperspace. The sector they're in, is the Anoat Sector, which is a region of several systems. Pablo Hidalgo from the Story Group has confirmed several times that this was an error, although Lucas and others involved in the franchise have given a bunch of convoluted reasons, like the Falcon having an "emergency hyperdrive for short distances" or that the systems are really close.
Not even at literal light-speed (not hyperspace) would it take a few days or weeks to cross entire systems.
The choice they chose has a thematic purpose that's relevant to the audience. How are people not putting two and two together that Rey is supposed to be a role model.
I'm pretty sure the plan is for the bombers to attack the dreadnought, its just that they no longer needed to go through with the plan because they were ready to escape once the last transport leaves. Poe wants to take the dreadnought out because it is a "fleet killer" and he probably thinks they wont get another chance at this. Leia knows better though, and I like to think that it is the attack on the Dreadnought that allowed the FO to start tracking them.
This would be hard for me to buy. TLJ amped up Hux's incompetency. Him forcing or being cunning enough to take the crown from Kylo feels like a reach.
I suppose I could see Kylo self destructing and getting to that same set up.
Maybe you can clear something up for me, didn't they get to the Anoat SECTOR because of being attached to the Star Destroyer?
Either way it sounds like a proper fuck up. Ya got me there. :p The way the movie phrases it in the moment, it just seems as though Bespin was just like... REALLY CLOSE in relative terms. Not 3 star systems away.
EDIT: If anything a quick line would have helped clear this up and not have people talking about it generations later. They had a lot of downtime and could have jury rigged the hyperdrive for one more trip before it shorts out completely.
Han: 'Chewie has spent some time on it and says we've got one jump, maybe. Even then we can't go far.'
Leia: Where are we?
and the scene plays out as before.
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I want to see Rey destory the knights of ren. The Kylo. It'll be AWESOME
We are being led to underestimate Hux. He wasn't necessarily the rabid cur Snoke was referring to in the throne room. And it's precisely because of our low expectations that it will hit all the harder when he becomes intimately involved in Kylo's downfall. TLJ saw him Force choked to his knees - it makes little dramatic sense to see some version of this play out again.
Going by your Korra avatar, you might appreciate this post I made earlier in the thread.
https://www.resetera.com/posts/2791147/
Few people read it and I am nothing if not a shameless self promoter.
TLDR version: Seeing all the complaints about Rey and being reminded of Avatar by someone else made me have a flashback of superficially similar complaints about a different female successor to a male chosen one that I myself made. I stand by a lot of it, but it makes me want to re-examine Korra to make sure I wasn't being biased against her unfairly.
