Yes, I was already corrected about that, there is a follow up discussion.
Sorry, the thread moves really fast :)
Yes, I was already corrected about that, there is a follow up discussion.
Yes but the Raddus wouldn't have been targeted had Poe not brought out the Bombers.
And since the Supremacy hadn't shown up by then, if Poe had followed Leia's order and returned to base, and Leia jumped the fleet out of there, the First Order wouldn't have been able to track them to their initial destination, right?
(I'm honestly asking, I believe that's the order of events, yeah? )
one lone escape pod getting away is a little silly, but it's not quite as big of an issue as the Dreadnaught not taking out the actual flagships of the resistance that had a 99% chance of having their upper leadership on board.
Think of this in terms of naval combat and they're taking a port. Why would you let the enemies battleships get away as they are the first and most heavily armed ships to flee from the port? The Port isn't going anywhere and you KNOW that the battleships leaving are the most dangerous and valuable things at the port itself. You can pick off a good portion of their ships, leaving them unable to even do hit and run missions, and still blockade the port.
Poe was probably authorized to buy the fleet some time (distracting everyone was obviously part of his mission) and if that went well, to then roll the bombers out. Or he might have just had that bombing plan in his hip pocket and busted it out when he saw his opportunity (sorta like how later in the film he ran a mutinous op by the seat of his pants on Holdo).
His taking out the deck guns was successful, but when he proposed proceeding to the next phase, Leia was like "Fuck that, get back here so we can jump away."
The only reason the Dreadnought even fixes the Raddus as a target and primes their bombardment cannons is because Poe has now so thoroughly fucked up the escape by proceeding to the second phase of his plan despite being told not to.
Hyperspace tracker and armaments
The Supremacy was able to track its targets through hyperspace using a combination of technological advances and brute-force data crunching. The Shipboard Tracking Control Complex boasted the data-shifting power of a planetary intel hub, linking its huge computer arrays to data banks loaded with centuries of combat reports and astrogationdata. A static hyperspace field generated around the machines then accelerated their processing power to unheard-of levels. A target's last known trajectory yielded trillions of potential destinations, but the system could assess them with terrifying speed.[1] This capability of tracking ships via hyperspace routes had its roots from the Tarkin Initiative.
I don't know that they say the battle is what gave them the time to track the fleet(I could be wrong though). Could be as soon as they arrived they started tracking the Raddus. Also remember when Poe suggests that they blow the ship tracking them up, Finn and Rose say another ship will just start tracking them. That means any ship could have started tracking them not just the Supremacy.
Poe was probably authorized to buy the fleet some time (distracting everyone was obviously part of his mission) and if that went well, to then roll the bombers out. Or he might have just had that bombing plan in his hip pocket and busted it out when he saw his opportunity (sorta like how later in the film he ran a mutinous op by the seat of his pants on Holdo).
His taking out the deck guns was successful, but when he proposed proceeding to the next phase, Leia was like "Fuck that, get back here so we can jump away."
The only reason the Dreadnought even fixes the Raddus as a target and primes their bombardment cannons is because Poe has now so thoroughly fucked up the escape by proceeding to the second phase of his plan despite being told not to.
I thought the tracking was on Hux's shipI wonder if the Finalizer (Hux's ship) is the one that established the track then. It would make sense, especially seeing as he had to offer something up to Snoke to get back in his good graces in that meeting afterwards.
I wonder if a rewatch is going to show some stray bit of background dialog/chatter/cutaway that shows that track getting fixed during the dogfight w/ the bombers.
I wonder if the Finalizer (Hux's ship) is the one that established the track then. It would make sense, especially seeing as he had to offer something up to Snoke to get back in his good graces in that meeting afterwards.
I wonder if a rewatch is going to show some stray bit of background dialog/chatter/cutaway that shows that track getting fixed during the dogfight w/ the bombers.
Please read again, because there's at least 1 error there, Poe shot at the main deck guns, while the lower guns were used in the bombardment. Also: the 2 lower-deck giant guns were about to fire on the Resistance fleet. Also, why was Poe attacking the main deck guns in the first place, if the bombing run wasn't an authorized mission?
This movie is such a mess.
You're probably right, though the old EU had, what 30 years for the Crystal Stars and Triclopses to accumulate. Give the new EU some time ;)
King Richard's the best ;)
I don't think that anything points to other star destroyers being able to do hyperspace tracking. Otherwise what's the point in infiltrating the Supremacy in Poe's plan?
None of this needs to be spelled out in the movie for anyone to understand it or come up with easy explanations. Every single battle in Star Wars is capable of resulting in questions like these, which is understandable, but not necessary to enjoying the story of the movie.
From wikia, which is pretty similar with what's in the visual dictionary:
The Empire not destroying R2 and C3PO's pod is definitely weird. Why would it matter if there are life forms or not? To save ammo? I doubt it would cost the Empire much.
It's not the first time that particular plot hole has been discussed and it's, in my opinion, a more problematic one than the one you are discussion from The Last Jedi, about the Dreadnaught not destroying the fleet first.
They simply were ready to go in and destroy the base, the first obvious and immovable target, as opposed to starships that could run away at any moment. They would've only destroyed one cruiser anyway, and not the rest of the fleet (like the Ninka, where Holdo was) and the only reason the Resistance cruiser (The Raddus) was within range of the Dreadnaught still was because of Poe's actions.
Leia told him to go back immediately. And it's very likely (judging by how hyperspace tracking is explained in the ICS) that Poe's attack on the Dreadnaught gave the FO enough time to track the Raddus.
I don't think that anything points to other star destroyers being able to do hyperspace tracking. Otherwise what's the point in infiltrating the Supremacy in Poe's plan?
Yeah, if he says 'may' then it implies he wasn't 100% that the lock had been fixed by the time they jumped away, which likely means if they'd left when Leia told Poe to pack it up, the lock wouldn't have locked (and Snoke probably would have killed him)
Yeah, if he says 'may' then it implies he wasn't 100% that the lock had been fixed by the time they jumped away, which likely means if they'd left when Leia told Poe to pack it up, the lock wouldn't have locked (and Snoke probably would have killed him)
Speaking of Hux, he only has to take one look at the BoudoirCam to see that Kylo was telling fibs about Rey offing Snoke. I look forward to seeing the fallout in IX; fingers crossed that Ren forced out and on the run from the First Order and the new Rebellion.
Thanks. So it was tied to the supremacy showing up.... but I thought they said that all ships had this??
For me 'no life signs aboard' is the thinnest of justifications, but at least it's something as oppose to 'these are the most valuable assets of the Resistance that also stand a likely chance of having its top leadership on board'. The other aspect is that this scenario is used as the inciting incident for Poe's entire arc in the story, so it's something that hurt his arc for me the whole way through.
I can see where you're coming from though! Without the conceit of that escape pod getting away? No OT and ST by extension. :P
The fire will blaze anew when the Blu Ray hits.
Poe was probably authorized to buy the fleet some time (distracting everyone was obviously part of his mission) and if that went well, to then roll the bombers out. Or he might have just had that bombing plan in his hip pocket and busted it out when he saw his opportunity (sorta like how later in the film he ran a mutinous op by the seat of his pants on Holdo).
His taking out the deck guns was successful, but when he proposed proceeding to the next phase, Leia was like "Fuck that, get back here so we can jump away."
The only reason the Dreadnought even fixes the Raddus as a target and primes their bombardment cannons is because Poe has now so thoroughly fucked up the escape by proceeding to the second phase of his plan despite being told not to.
It's not really that convoluted. Or rather, the longshot/rickety aspect of it isn't a bug - it's the feature. The ramshackle nature of the scheme is specifically called out in the dialog as a means to drive home that had Poe simply trusted his superiors and listened to their leadership instead of shrugging them off because he was certain he knew best, he wouldn't be in such a fucked up situation where he's betting everything on a plan that buys the Resistance all of six minutes.
Like Bobby said, there's some hardcore videogame logic going on here with some people's line of thinking.
Yeah, I mean, how did the Falcon travel three star systems to Bespin without hyperspace, within a couple of days (at the most) when not being able to get away far was the whole point of the Falcon's pursuit through the asteroid field?
LEIA
What did you have in mind for
your next move?
HAN
Well, if they follow standard
Imperial procedure, they'll dump
their garbage before they go to
light-speed, then we just float
away.
LEIA
With the rest of the garbage.
Then what?
HAN
Then we've got to find a safe
port somewhere around here. Got
any ideas?
LEIA
No. Where are we?
HAN
The Anoat system.
LEIA
Anoat system. There's not much
there.
HAN
No. Well, wait. This is
interesting. Lando.
He points to a computer mapscreen on the control panel. Leia slips out
of her chair and moves next to the handsome pilot. Small light points
representing several systems flash by on the computer screen.
LEIA
Lando system?
HAN
Lando's not a system, he's a man.
Lando Calrissian. He's a card
player, gambler, scoundrel. You'd
like him.
LEIA
Thanks.
HAN
Bespin. It's pretty far, but I
think we can make it.
LEIA
(reading from the
computer)
A mining colony?
HAN
Yeah, a Tibanna gas mine. Lando
conned somebody out of it. We
go back a long way, Lando and me.
LEIA
Can you trust him?
HAN
No. But he has no love for the
Empire, I can tell you that.
Chewie barks over the intercom. Han quickly changes his readouts and
stretches to look out the cockpit window.
HAN
(into intercom)
Here we go, Chewie. Stand by.
Detach!
Han leans back in his chair and gives Leia an invisible smile. She
thinks for a moment, shakes her head; a grin creeps across her face and
she gives him a quick kiss.
LEIA
You do have your moments. Not
many, but you have them.
TLJ really set up the First Order for some grade A commanding chaos. I could very well see them break into two factions. Hux' Troopers vs. Kylo's Knights.
The First Order sends out fighters, doesn't it? That's how the Bombers start going down. They also apparently have them on the Finalizer still, as they're dispatched at the Battle of Crait.
Speaking of Hux, he only has to take one look at the BoudoirCam to see that Kylo was telling fibs about Rey offing Snoke. I look forward to seeing the fallout in IX; fingers crossed that Ren forced out and on the run from the First Order and the new Rebellion.
Actually that makes me wonder, did they say that it was three star systems away in the script? I thought they did enough by saying that it was 'far' but within the realm of 'close by'. I totally get what you mean, but I feel like the script hand waved things enough, where as the questions to do with Poe's opening are pretty front and center. Like why wasn't he attacking the side with the actual siege weapons?
http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-The-Empire-Strikes-Back.html
The choice they chose has a thematic purpose that's relevant to the audience. How are people not putting two and two together that Rey is supposed to be a role model.Thats fine, great, tell me their backstory, drunken farmers who sold their daughter, is not the way you tell a story, its lazy. She might be the most powerful force user ever, and the path they chose was a cowards choice in my opinion.
I was thinking of the situation earlier - the bombers come in after Poe deals with the turrets, but there's no other reason to deal with the turrets than to use the bombers.
Anyway, I just like to poke holes, these things don't bother me that much, as I've already mentioned earlier in the thread. My beef with TLJ is structural and thematic ;)
Speaking of Hux, he only has to take one look at the BoudoirCam to see that Kylo was telling fibs about Rey offing Snoke. I look forward to seeing the fallout in IX; fingers crossed that Ren forced out and on the run from the First Order and the new Rebellion.
Ah, but we forget: Hoth itself was a system. "The third planet of the Hoth system".
So they traveled from the Hoth system, to the Anoat system, and then to the system Bespin is in (not the same as Anoat), all without hyperspace. The sector they're in, is the Anoat Sector, which is a region of several systems. Pablo Hidalgo from the Story Group has confirmed several times that this was an error, although Lucas and others involved in the franchise have given a bunch of convoluted reasons, like the Falcon having an "emergency hyperdrive for short distances" or that the systems are really close.
Not even at literal light-speed (not hyperspace) would it take a few days or weeks to cross entire systems.
I want to see Rey destory the knights of ren. The Kylo. It'll be AWESOMEYeah, but then it's just gonna be another round of MARY SUUUUUUUUE when Rey beats all their asses.
Going by your Korra avatar, you might appreciate this post I made earlier in the thread.I want to see Rey destory the knights of ren. The Kylo. It'll be AWESOME