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Contramann

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,404
People are saying the milking scene is freaking slapstick..?
People just trying to figure out weird ways to justify their anger over one or two scenes again by using hyperbole. It's very obviously not slapstick. Hell someone may as well claim it's vaudeville if we're going to slap whatever label we feel like on that scene.

He was trolling rey if anything, he wanted her to leave remember.
Basically.

"You gonna follow me around eh? Alright let's see how dedicated you are to that"
 

Inferno

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,554
Tampa, FL
Great directing there.

Also, they made Poe's piloting seem real rather than him just pressing random buttons to do stuff, which is what he did in TFA. Poe smashing the side and doing that drift maneuver thing was
otMIoh5s.png

The amount of pathos he's able to get out of a sequence of a character we've never even SEEN BEFORE is nothing short of masterful.
 

theJwac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
91
Any movie where someone smirks at someone is a slapstick comedy, then. Slapstick is a form of physical comedy, that goes beyond the realms of even standard physical comedy. Stuff like Chaplin films, or Buster Keaton films.

Here are some actual examples of slapstick, so we're all on the same page:
...
An alien giving a side-eye to Rey, and Luke making a "that's the stuff" face after taking a swig of milk, are not slapstick in anyway shape or form. There's some BB-8 stuff in here that's slapstick, but not this stuff.

Do you think you're convincing anyone to like the movie with anything you're talking about here? Do you think pointing out logical fallacies will somehow make someone change their opinion on the movie? I wish it were that easy. I want to like this movie more than I do, but like so many others, I do not. It's not one specific thing that makes me feel this way. This movie was just not for me and that's ok. I'm hopeful I will find other films in the series enjoyable.
 

Mockerre

Story Director
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
630
I can't agree with that. What was left of the Resistance was at stake. They were trapped with no escape.

No, you misunderstood me; I know the Resistance was trapped. I was just suggesting that the audience might not care about it. Firstly, as I mentioned in the previous post, all the leads were somewhere else, leaving us with the B plot characters. Secondly, we've been getting accustomed to Resistance personnel dying throughout the movie; from the bombing run, to the 2 other ships blowing up, to the transport getting shot; it's a bit desensitizing. Thirdly, the movie itself tells us there's more Resistance out there, they just don't want to come and help, which undermines the whole 'last stand' feel. Finally, the setup for the FO vs. Resistance conflict is really vague and poor in the ST; In TFA, I was led to believe that they were a fringe group hiding on the outskirts of the Galaxy. TLJ happens days after that. The Resistance was on the forefront of the battle, but there's a whole Galaxy of unconquered Republic worlds that can resist as well. There is no galactic war going on. Starkiller Base destroying Hosnian Prime was the first salvo and this happens not long after, on the orbit of the Resistance base planet (and deep space), still at the periphery of the Galaxy.
 

Blackflag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,968
Finally saw it again and I know it's early but right now it is my favorite Star Wars movie.

I really liked it the first time but I had so much anxiety and anticipation for what was going on that I felt I needed to see it again to be sure.

And..is it really doing that badly? I've seen reports that the audience drop offs were huge. Obviously this is only my experience but I tried to see it every day last week except for Christmas and all the showings were basically full. I finally got tickets for the last 2 seats together on Saturday.
 

Inferno

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,554
Tampa, FL
Do you think you're convincing anyone to like the movie with anything you're talking about here? Do you think pointing out logical fallacies will somehow make someone change their opinion on the movie? I wish it were that easy. I want to like this movie more than I do, but like so many others, I do not. It's not one specific thing that makes me feel this way. This movie was just not for me and that's ok. I'm hopeful I will find other films in the series enjoyable.

No? I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, other than what the definition of slapstick is. If we're to have a serious discussion about this film, we should know what the words we're using actually mean.

Man, you guys are a touchy bunch.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
The amount of pathos he's able to get out of a sequence of a character we've never even SEEN BEFORE is nothing short of masterful.
Indeed, I love what Rian did with Poe. He put that character on edge by taking away his piloting but I also want to see the alternative version of the TLJ where Poe stays a pilot for the whole thing to see Rian's direction of those hypothetical battles. Hopefully JJ ups his game for that in TLJ if Poe goes back to piloting.
 

Darcy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
127
Trevorrow was reportedly a egotistical jerk on the set of Jurassic World, always trying to assert himself. He was able to complete the movie because he was Spielberg's protegee and got away with it. Maybe the quality of his scripts was not the only reason for his firing/walk out, but him also being an alleged jerk. Kathleen Kennedy seems to be adamant with working with directors being team players, see Rian Johnson.
 
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Sölf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,939
Germany
Finally saw it. Pretty good movie, one of the best Star Wars movies behind Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith for me. And much, much better than The Force Awakens.
 

Contramann

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,404
Do you think you're convincing anyone to like the movie with anything you're talking about here? Do you think pointing out logical fallacies will somehow make someone change their opinion on the movie? I wish it were that easy. I want to like this movie more than I do, but like so many others, I do not. It's not one specific thing that makes me feel this way. This movie was just not for me and that's ok. I'm hopeful I will find other films in the series enjoyable.
Yo, what? They're not trying to convince you to like the movie, they're convincing you why your claim of "slapstick" is off the mark and wrong. No one here of course thinks you're going to go "OH! Well if it's not slapstick I was wrong, 10/10 movie!".
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,300
The movie does not set this up, foreshadow nor justify it.
Yes it does:
latest


This is the scene where it's established that the force can be tapped into minds.

you got to learn this shit and above all you need to be aware of its existence in the first place
Simply put:
JUCH0mJ.gif



It doesn't work like this:
kq3Ic76.jpg

ykUJcfT.jpg

aleobAY.jpg


It's second nature, if you think you can do it then you can. It's there to be used, ALWAYS.
 

Mockerre

Story Director
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
630
Okay, then I think we're arguing the same thing. Leia appears to have been instrumental in Trevorrow's first script. It wasn't about one or a couple scenes; I believe he had to restart from page one. To that end he either didn't turn in what they wanted, or what he turned in simply wasn't good enough. And you have to imagine that at some point, or at least before Fisher's death, he had what they wanted. That, coupled with the Thorne episode, leads me to believe the new script really just sucked.

Well, yes and no ;) I believe that might be how it went down. I also don't reject the Henry hypothesis. Also, Trevorrow is supposedly hard to work with, so that's a third. I also think TLJ leaves little room for a third movie in a trilogy and it might've been too frustrating for someone with Trevorrow's ego to clean up after his predecessor who wrote him into a corner. That'd certainly explain going back to JJ, as he's a mercenary and just doesn't care about scene continuity.
 

WadiumArcadium

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,238
UK
No, you misunderstood me; I know the Resistance was trapped. I was just suggesting that the audience might not care about it. Firstly, as I mentioned in the previous post, all the leads were somewhere else, leaving us with the B plot characters. Secondly, we've been getting accustomed to Resistance personnel dying throughout the movie; from the bombing run, to the 2 other ships blowing up, to the transport getting shot; it's a bit desensitizing. Thirdly, the movie itself tells us there's more Resistance out there, they just don't want to come and help, which undermines the whole 'last stand' feel. Finally, the setup for the FO vs. Resistance conflict is really vague and poor in the ST; In TFA, I was led to believe that they were a fringe group hiding on the outskirts of the Galaxy. TLJ happens days after that. The Resistance was on the forefront of the battle, but there's a whole Galaxy of unconquered Republic worlds that can resist as well. There is no galactic war going on. Starkiller Base destroying Hosnian Prime was the first salvo and this happens not long after, on the orbit of the Resistance base planet (and deep space), still at the periphery of the Galaxy.
You said there were 'no stakes'. That's what I personally disagreed with.

We had been used to seeing Resistance personnel being killed, but at this point there's nowhere left for them to run and Poe, Finn and Rose are all part of a plan that looks pretty unlikely to succeed. For a split second I thought they might even kill off Finn when he's making his charge on the cannon.

Regarding their Outer Rim allies, I don't really see how that reduced the stakes of the battle. We have no guarantee anyone will actually arrive and apart from the Falcon and Luke they receive no support. That realisation made their situation seem even more dire.
 

Contramann

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,404
Its like super dark bro.
But the dialogue and delivery in it gets so bad! The whole middle parts feels super slow! Grevious makes no sense if you haven't seen any stuff outside of the movies and is super disappointing if you have!

I just don't get it.

40 minutes lightsaber duel I guess lol
That dual Lightsaber duel felt so long I honestly could feel my excitement at the action just slowly just fade until I was just wanting them to hurry up to Anakin losing. I mean we already know where the scene is going! Don't spend forever drawing it out!
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,705
It features the greatest villain in the history of the franchise, that's why!

348c8090d9be14c7da56d2ef1bc4beb42d7ad7b3_hq.gif
I've personally never been a fan of simply abandoning flawed characters as opposed to fixing and improving them.

I would have been genuinely intrigued by Jar Jar becoming a willing servant of Palpatine.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
Yes it does:
latest


This is the scene where it's established that the force can be tapped into minds.


Simply put:
JUCH0mJ.gif



It doesn't work like this:
kq3Ic76.jpg

ykUJcfT.jpg

aleobAY.jpg


It's second nature, if you think you can do it then you can. It's there to be used, ALWAYS.

This is 100% your conjecture and it doesn't even address the poster you were responding to.
 

Mockerre

Story Director
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
630
You said there were 'no stakes'. That's what I personally disagreed with.

We had been used to seeing Resistance personnel being killed, but at this point there's nowhere left for them to run and Poe, Finn and Rose are all part of a plan that looks pretty unlikely to succeed. For a split second I thought they might even kill off Finn when he's making his charge on the cannon.

Regarding their Outer Rim allies, I don't really see how that reduced the stakes of the battle. We have no guarantee anyone will actually arrive and apart from the Falcon and Luke they receive no support. That realisation made their situation seem even more dire.

I just... well, we'll have to agree to disagree :) Tension was falling for me since the moment Kylo killed Snoke and Holdo the fleet. The head of the FO was cut, the body crippled. More than this bunch of Resistance fighters could have ever hoped for. They just tried to escape and ended up taking part in the destruction of FO's heart. It's comical to read the statistics about those FO ships; did you know that the Supremacy was supposed to have a 2 million crew?

Anyway, the whole sequence on Crait didn't do anything for me, because Poe, Finn, Rose and Leia didn't do anything meaningful throughout the movie; the important stuff was happening between Rey and Kylo.

Killing Finn in that scene would've been actually surprising, though I don't think it was earned.
 

theJwac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
91
Yo, what? They're not trying to convince you to like the movie, they're convincing you why your claim of "slapstick" is off the mark and wrong. No one here of course thinks you're going to go "OH! Well if it's not slapstick I was wrong, 10/10 movie!".
I never claimed anything. What are you referring to?
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
That is literally a significant point of discussion in both TFA and in this film.

Maybe I misunderstood the comment but: If what TFA etc implies is true then there would be no reason for there to have trained children from birth, and Luke wouldn't have needed to spend time training with Yoda or spent years between ANH and ESB to still struggle. Rey does what she does because she's the chosen one of the will of the force to equal out Kylo. This is difficult from being the chosen one to fulfill a prophecy that may or may not be bullshit or skewed by interpretation.

None of this validates no learning curve to the force by way of saying it's just all in your mind. All in your mind doesn't mean that you can go from 0-100.

Even a person wants to say that it's all good because REY is some exception because CHOSEN ONE, it's arguable that Rey and the ST break cannon if broom kid can just force pull out of nowhere.

We saw Luke Skywalker struggle to force pull his light-saber in ESB after years of knowing the force, yet Rey can photocopy any force power and outdo Kylo after minutes of experience and broom kid force pull with no experience.

If the Jedi don't have a monopoly the force? Whatever? That doesn't mean that it can just appear out of thin air or that 'anybody' can use it or go from 0 to 100.
 
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Contramann

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,404
I never claimed anything. What are you referring to?
If you weren't the one who claimed it was Slapstick then what are you on about? It still doesn't change anything I said if you didn't either. It's clear what Inferno is doing is discussing the definition of Slapstick in an effort to show why that scene is not the definition of slapstick. That's it.
 

theJwac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
91
Man, you guys are a touchy bunch.
That's amusing. I saw your visual essay on the term slapstick and thought the same thing about you. I hope continuing to defend this movie makes you feel better about the fact that it wasn't received as well as you would have liked. As I said before, I hope you and I both enjoy the next SW film. Have a Happy New Year!
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
EP3 is the silliest and hammiest SW film ever. There is no way to actually take it seriously. Ian McDiarmid is a madman and went full ham
 

Inferno

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,554
Tampa, FL
It's been the point of discussion since the OT:


The ST emphasizes the same point but also that it's not specifically something the jedi have a monopoly on.


Ugh. What a Gary Stu!

That's amusing. I saw your visual essay on the term slapstick and thought the same thing about you. I hope continuing to defend this movie makes you feel better about the fact that it wasn't received as well as you would have liked. As I said before, I hope you and I both enjoy the next SW film. Have a Happy New Year!

Huh? I wrote like 3 sentences and linked a few gifs...

I'll admit I can be a bit of a dork about this shit, 4 years in film school will do that to ya.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
That's amusing. I saw your visual essay on the term slapstick and thought the same thing about you. I hope continuing to defend this movie makes you feel better about the fact that it wasn't received as well as you would have liked. As I said before, I hope you and I both enjoy the next SW film. Have a Happy New Year!
You literally changed the argument from "this scene is slapstick", which it isn't, into "you're trying to convince people this is a good film"

That is like the definition of touchy
 

Contramann

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,404
That's amusing. I saw your visual essay on the term slapstick and thought the same thing about you. I hope continuing to defend this movie makes you feel better about the fact that it wasn't received as well as you would have liked. As I said before, I hope you and I both enjoy the next SW film. Have a Happy New Year!
giphy.gif
 

Sölf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,939
Germany
Revenge of the Sith is awful!

I am weird when it comes to Star Wars. I am mainly in it for the action, which is why I think Empire and TPM are both really boring. Empire may have the best story, but I saw that the first time when I was pretty young and somehow Star Wars became for me all about cool looking space and lightsaber battles.

Which is why I rank EP 2, 3 and 6 the highest. Don't even ask me why this is only a Star Wars thing, as I do care about plot in pretty much every other movie universe.