I do have to say that every time I've seen the movie I'm honestly a bit amazed at the Poe prank call bit and just how long it goes on. Not because I don't like it or I'm annoyed by it or anything. Just in the sense of "I can't believe someone let him do this shit" sheer amazement.
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi |OT3| The War is Just Beginning (Unmarked Spoilers)
- Thread starter Bronx-Man
- Start date
In my case I've had the same reaction as with TFA and RO. In fact my first comment here was that reactions were overblown, especially the humor part. But like with the other two movies, as time goes by I was even less enthused. For TFA it took a while, there was no point in the movie where I thought this "this is awful", unlike this time with a lot of the FO/Resistance scenes and the casino. To be honest I only liked the parts on Ahch-To, when the movie's pace was slower. Would have prefered twice as much time about that, and half as less of everything else. So sick of space battles, and this one felt like a Star Trek episode, like Snoke's ship is some Romulan's or whatever they are, slowly pew pewing at the Enterprise's shield for two hours as try to reconnect the thing with the other thing so they can go back to hyper space.
Slapstick is a reference to a style of body humour that was introduced by french mute movies. The look the creature gives and (potentially) Luke's gesture are the textbook definitions of slapstick. Mr Bean is slapstick.
I was nervous those first 20 min, I was like what is this?
It's definitely weird, tonally. That's part of why I like it, when was the last time a SW movie was legitimately weird? Jabba's palace (original release only) got close with the many breasted dancers etc but still not as bizarre as the first 20 minutes of TLJ. Which is a good thing, to me.
After reading so much of these threads, general comments around the internet and the like I really feel like I wish I was not a Star Wars fan insane to think that's a negative thing to be these days even during the prequel era I never felt such a disconnect.
As much as I love what Rian did with TLJ all I can keep coming back to is he should have just gone with answers he knew would please people much like JJ did with TFA at least then we wouldn't have so much of this negative feedback loop that seems to have occurred in the minds of many.
As much as I love what Rian did with TLJ all I can keep coming back to is he should have just gone with answers he knew would please people much like JJ did with TFA at least then we wouldn't have so much of this negative feedback loop that seems to have occurred in the minds of many.
In fairness, I actually would dig a story set in the SW universe that didn't have a war in it.
But it's called Star Wars so you have to have a war in the stars, I guess.
So? Should there be even more space battles then, to fill some arbitrary quota? It gets old. I blanked out during the whole one on the salty planet, wondered what had happened to Rey after Snoke's ship blew up until I realized she was there as I saw her yell something.
Yeah and that's fair. It's so balsy though that people are going to be a little sensitive about it one way or another. Hence all of these discussions about how they should have had Luke thrown the Lightsaber of all things. People are getting that granular because it hit them hard.
Have you heard about the time Snap got married and everyone farted
Edit: Nevermind, you specified movies
I don't know what 'it' you're referring to. That Trevorrow was forced to rewrite the film after Fisher died, and that he couldn't? How else do you read this?
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Trevorrow was fired months after Book of Henry was released, and the film was finished months before then. It's simply not the reason he was fired. If you want to argue that there are issues behind the scenes at LFL, or that Kennedy has a problem recruiting capable creatives, then I'm inclined to agree with you. But you cannot spin Trevorrow's firing as evidence that Johnson might share his fate. Edwards, Trank, Lord, and Miller all faced difficulties in production (Trank, uniquely, not on Star Wars), and they were as much a matter of creativity as compatibility. Even TFA had problems. TLJ is unique because it wasn't nearly calamitous. If anything, this pattern you've noted only reinforces LFL's commitment to Johnson.
Any movie where someone smirks at someone is a slapstick comedy, then. Slapstick is a form of physical comedy, that goes beyond the realms of even standard physical comedy. Stuff like Chaplin films, or Buster Keaton films.
Here are some actual examples of slapstick, so we're all on the same page:
A more modern example that more people might be familiar with, would be this FANTASTIC scene from Scorsese:
An alien giving a side-eye to Rey, and Luke making a "that's the stuff" face after taking a swig of milk, are not slapstick in anyway shape or form. There's some BB-8 stuff in here that's slapstick, but not this stuff.
It's not a bad point; I like the TLJ did things differently, but I'm still stuck with the idea (and that may just be an old, reactionary fan) that I wish they did this with a story less important than Luke's final appearance in the saga (force ghosts notwithstanding). But of course it would have also been less effective if it was, say, RO's story.
Hux mentions she's escaped in Snoke's transport when Kylo regains consciousness and her plan was always to reunite with Chewie on the Falcon, as she says before she leaves.
You blanked out, because: a) the movie already had its (first) climax and b) there were no stakes for the battle; both mains (Kylo and Rey) were somewhere else.
I remember being nervous about the whole first act of TPM of which it barely improves and I never enjoyed the first act of ROTJ at Jabbas palace but that movie ends up being one of the best. It was a small joke that is literally maybe what 30 seconds of screentime? I have no idea where this 20 mins is coming from.
Maybe I am wrong. I don't know. I was crushed walking out of TLJ. I hated feeling that way. Maybe those who loved it are right. I don't know. I just know that with TFA I went 3 times. TLJ, I had no motivation to watch it again.
They're actually doing a fantastic job with the space battles. They're not lifeless, sterile, or boring. They have real weight and impact. RO was astounding. The hammerhead, the two Destroyers colliding, falling into the planetary shield thingy, Vader's ship arriving and taking out fleeing rebel ships, etc. The Resistance rescue at Takadona in TFA was awesome. The bomber scene in TFJ, while a bit strange (slow-ass bombers?), was really good. When Holdo took out the Supremacy, that was great (even though it brought up a lot more questions).
I wondered what the hell she was doing between her escaping Snokes ship and her showing up at the base when the rebels were trying to take down the cannon. It was weird.
I will never forget walking out of TPM with 7 friends, it was something I wish I had on camera. The absolute silence and the looks we were giving each other was something else.
You are confusing the legal right to exploit an IP the way you see fit and the specific meaning of Canon. Yes something being Canon, in a fictional expanded universe (MCU, DCEU. LOTR etc...), means that the content usually originated from the rightful owner of the IP, but it is not the meaning of the term and how it is understood. Canon serves in world building and in storytelling.
"an accepted principle or rule"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/canon
It is about different stories and lore elements sharing a same valid, unique and coherent (or which does not fundamentally contradict or undermine the validity of other elements in this shared world) universe. The "Legends" brand of books are NOT Canon, they have no validity related to TLJ for instance, but are still legally owned by Lucasfilm.You have derived products legally owned and distributed by LF/Disney which are NOT canon because they do not possess a storytelling or world building purpose: handbag, T-shirts, promotional material etc...
SW has this strength: the universe of these movies is so iconic and so deeply loved by people that it is a huge undeniable commercial asset. When they release a product marketed as canon, the real value of the material (usually they are really bad on their own, but to each his own) is how it fits in the official SW universe/Canon. The rule is: when we release something we will make sure that it respect the rules and principles we, LF, have already established or defined as Canon.
Sure the Story Group is not perfect, and can let things slip. But these failings can be legitimately discussed, because they can pose issue. Holdo is one of the example: her move is bad-ass, a true highlight in the movie, but the logic of it just break the universe.
In the end they can do whatever they want, they own it. But they have to be honest about it, and stop shutting down people with legitimate criticism. Now Hidalgo and some other people are mocking these criticisms and putting them in the "fan didn't get their wookiepedia movie" basket. The irony is that they will release a bunch junk books, defined it as Canon (in the sense defined earlier) and trash it latter. If you don't care about continuity, or if you want total freedom, don't create a official Canon. Put it in Legends.
For instance, consider her use of the Jedi mind trick. The movie does not set this up, foreshadow nor justify it. We are showed this, and told to be okay about that. It breaks good storytelling convention (TFA is so edgy...) and also the rules of the SW universe: you got to learn this shit and above all you need to be aware of its existence in the first place. Funny enough JJ Abrams said in an interview she learned it from Kylo's mind. So in the end he use a bad out-of-the-movie excuse to justify a bad deus ex in the movie, and we can be pretty sure it will not be used again because of it.
This example is funny, imo, because I am pretty sure that if JJ's "explanation" had been established in SW Canon before or after the movie, you could have gotten away with it, kinda. The lore, if you use it well, can help you out (it would have hurt less). It is a pre-existing set up that can save your ass if you are a bad writer.
It seems like it's becoming a thing that the most vocal critics against humor don't seem to understand what it is or how it works. It's like how people think every piece of comedic relief in Marvel movies is a quip.
I can't agree with that. What was left of the Resistance was at stake. They were trapped with no escape.
Y'all remember when people held their own individual opinions and didn't get lumped into some hive mind?
TFA needed that space battle with the Sledgehammer. Much better than Han flying to SKB at lightspeed and Phasma being dumped in a trash compactor.
As a fan, I feel it also comes a point where you have to accept that you can't expect 10 movies in a saga to be all equally aligned to your tastes, and I'm also reaching the point of thinking that my negativity about (parts of) the movie honestly matters less than the enjoyment other people took from it. The movie is out, it's not a major desecration of the saga or even remotely a bad movie, it's not what I wanted but it's clearly what a lot of people wanted, and since I got mine out of 8 other Star Wars movie, I can accept an episode that isn't PRECISELY tailored to my tastes.
TFA has two starship-battle/dogfight scenes and they're among the best in the saga. WTF.
The Falcon's scene on Jakku may be the best spaceship action piece in the saga.
I honestly don't think this is a matter of right and wrong, you're allowed to feel what you do as much as I am. I honestly came out of TLJ with mixed feelings, so much had happened but I knew I didn't hate it. After my second viewing, it solidified my opinion I really really loved it, It's like ROTJ for me, parts I don't really care about with stuff I absolutely adore.
Subjective opinions can never be wrong, the reason I feel so disconnected is because so many people seem to either miss the point or layout false narratives or hell look over things the OT and Prequels did that are used here. Some genuinely don't like answers given and undertand perfectly what it was going for and im not trying to discredit that way of thinking at all.
I'm not going to tell you to watch it again unless you're already willing to give it another chance, for what its worth from a stranger I'm sorry you felt that way coming out of it.
The 'it' is rewriting the scene. From my experience this is not how things work out. No one quits or gets fired, because he/she is not able to write a particular scene. This is not a high school play, people treat it dead serious. So I'm saying that if Trevorrow left/was let go because of a story reason, it was because of a total creative clash on what the story should be about.
As for the rest of your post, begrudingly agree. Thought there may be other morals to this story. TLJ wasn't as calamitous, yet it's the most divisive of the three. If Solo underperforms or is poorly received, if other directors/writers face the same woes - Johnson can't direct everything - maybe there'll be a shakeup at LF itself. I don't know how secure is KK's position after the sale.
Everything is slapstick and pandering and exposition and bad pacing
They're cool words I learned on the internet
I found the aerial aspect of the attack on Starkiller to be one of the weakest aspects of TFA, honestly. (A movie that, overall, I genuinely love.) I think both the opening space battle here, and the battle on crait fucking rule in comparison.
I love what Rian does with the camera and editing during the opening battle, how it swoops effortlessly from the battle, into the Star Destroyer bridge, quick-pan into a smash-cut back to the Resistance bridge, DAMN good stuff. It feels like something Edgar Wright would've come up with.
Yes I remembered that. But I did blank out due to complete disconnect with the battle with the rusty ships, thinking "Ah too bad, I wonder what happened to Rey, would have liked the movie to continue to focus on her.", then Rey yells something and I see the falcon is flying around over white while being fired at by tie fighters or some such, and I thought "Oh she's here??".
Exactly, and I liked the part with Kylo and Rey since it was more focused, less busy, my brain wanted to stick with that pacing at this point, not the start of a whole new battle.
Yeah they do stuff, I'm sure they could do a lot of other things, like having little robots that stick to your ship and you have to spin to get them off. I just want less of it, or pace it better. Having the gang arguing for two hours about what to do in the resistance's ship was yawn-inducing, and following it up with a Hot-like battle didn't help. I just want less ship stuff. The little ambush in RO in the streets or Jerusalem-whatever-it-was-called was more fun.
I love TFA, but its large scale battles are not even close to being the best in the saga. Starkiller in particular was one of the weaker parts of the film.
The look on Hux when Poe is destroying cannons one by one is some top notch acting and great humor too
Okay, then I think we're arguing the same thing. Leia appears to have been instrumental in Trevorrow's first script. It wasn't about one or a couple scenes; I believe he had to restart from page one. To that end he either didn't turn in what they wanted, or what he turned in simply wasn't good enough. And you have to imagine that at some point, or at least before Fisher's death, he had what they wanted. That, coupled with the Thorne episode, leads me to believe the new script really just sucked.
He was trolling rey if anything, he wanted her to leave remember.
Great directing there.
Also, they made Poe's piloting seem real rather than him just pressing random buttons to do stuff, which is what he did in TFA. Poe smashing the side and doing that drift maneuver thing was
"People who complained that TFA didn't have a space battle"
I totally get hating fans of a property; I'm the same way with Rick and Morty fans, but I get a dismissive feeling from comments like that. Or ones in which people say that they haven't met anyone in person who didn't like the film. You guys are quick to bemoan the damage RLM and CinemaSins has done to the art of criticism, but you are just as quick to make posts dripping in condescension and dismissiveness which puts people on edge on both sides resulting in heated arguments over a movie in which one of our main characters is probably afflicted with some kind of brain disease from drinking unpasteurized milk.
I love that in 2018 we're discussing a "milking" scene in a Star Wars movie. :D
I was just pointing out that it was funny how someone was saying he was sick of space battles, but when they didn't put space battles in TFA, there were some who were mad about it. Obviously that person can't be in that hivemind since he is saying he doesn't want that.