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Star Wars: The Last Jedi |OT3| The War is Just Beginning (Unmarked Spoilers)
- Thread starter Bronx-Man
- Start date
Could you muster a response if I said he couldn't rewrite it adequately? I think it goes without saying that he did rewrite it and it sucked. Then they brought on Jack Thorne and it still sucked. Trevorrow shortly left, or was fired. It doesn't matter. He couldn't put the pieces together.
How does making more than the previous Star Wars film "indicate a troubling trend for the series"?
Wow. You know that ESB ends on a cliff-hanger right? I was in tears at the end of TFA too, Rey's pleading look to Luke is so moving, and the gravity and weight of his expression back to her is beautiful. I thought him tossing the saber (after taking it from her reverently and considering it) was cheeky and subversive but not insulting?
As for your other complaints, I actually feel for you cause you clearly love Star Wars, and I can relate, I felt pretty damn insulted walking out of the theater after seeing AOTC. To me this film was clearly made with an abiding love of and passion for the stories and characters of the OT (only SW I personally care about) and it was respectful of the characters in that it took them seriously as real people with actual emotions and failings and insecurities. It is a shift in tone from the purely heroic swashbuckling of the OT for sure, but it's also the middle chapter in which the characters are challenged most.
That film made over $1 billion, which at the time was a more impressive feat. It was shot back-to-back with At World's End, which reduced filming costs. It's still above RO in the BO. It was also a movie that received a mixed critical reception (53% RT), but an overall positive audience reception (72%). The franchise went on, but with diminishing returns and diminishing critical reception. I honestly don't know what your point with DMC is?
I will watch the next movie, I thought there were some amazing scenes in TLJ too, some I will never forget. Some things bothered me a lot though.
I know, right? And even if you take away RO and say TLJ did less than TFA, you still have a dataset with only two points. That's not a trend!
It will be years before we get a real picture of what the "trend" of Star Wars box office numbers look like. But in truth, some will be up, and some will be down. It still won't spell disaster for the franchise like some are suggesting. Look at the MCU. Numbers are all over the place. Yet it still has an incredibly healthy fanbase and movies are still being cranked out for the foreseeable future.
Everything is gonna be okay.
I think he means 'to end a n a cliff hanger that implies something mid scene' and then 'to pick up on that very scene with slapstick that clowns the audience and way the scene was set up before'
That's different than ESB ending with a void in front of them, so to speak
I don't think your point is wrong, but... have you been to Tunisia or Morocco? They look nothing like Mos Eisley. Much like Canto Blight doesn't look much like Monaco (I've been to all the places referenced here, btw).
I think the point that Canto Blight is a lot more "earthlike" is fair, but also not particularly relevant.
Not to insinuate that it is near the same situation or movie but I think we can have a general idea of what Empire Strikes Back would be like if social media were around.
I can just see the "I can't believe Leia ditched Luke like that for Han, he's a nice guy," "the movie is too slow and most of it takes place on the Falcon," "Vader's reveal came out of nowhere, it's no good," "Luke did nothing in this entire movie," posts flying around left and right. :P
I can just see the "I can't believe Leia ditched Luke like that for Han, he's a nice guy," "the movie is too slow and most of it takes place on the Falcon," "Vader's reveal came out of nowhere, it's no good," "Luke did nothing in this entire movie," posts flying around left and right. :P
I gotta be honest and say that I'm not entirely sure if the lightsaber toss over shoulder was supposed to be slapstick, but I never personally took it that way, and if it was, then it was the only complete failure of comedy in the entire movie. Out of the 3 times I've seen it, not a single person in the theater laughed one time at that part. In comparison to some jokes in the movie which are hit or miss depending on the audience on a given day.
It's emblematic of the major problem I had with the movie. Unnecessary, misplaced, poor comedy. I came away from the movie feeling that it was OK to good, as many things I enjoyed when it was holding an appropriate tone. All of the unfunny jokes brought it down significantly, and hold it back from being one of the best.
In theory, Luke discarding the lightsaber is a great idea. In execution, it failed, sacrificing what could have been a poweful moment for a cheap laugh, and not even earning the laugh from me.
Still better than the prequels.
What if Luke held out his hand for the lightsaber but then smoothed his hair at the last second so that Rey drops it?
Ahhh, okay that makes more sense. Look, it threw me for a bit too when it happened, but looking back it's a clear signal to the audience: don't assume you know where this story is going or how characters will feel about it. I don't think him tossing it is "clowning the audience" or parodying the serious scene that came before it. It's just a surprising conclusion.
>its a slap in the face
>its a coward move by Rian and shows a real lack of respect for your audience
>back handedness which Rian handled the movie with
>I didn't appreciate being made to feel that my passion for star wars means nothing over the course of 2.5 hours.
>The disrespect was something I was not prepared for.
Star Wars fans are wild, man.
Calling the lightsaber toss slapstick is a big stretch. If it bounced off a Porg then yeah, sure.
honestly I completely disagree but at least he made an argument about it
you have to remember that at least one person in this thread is convinced that the "salt" line is a direct attack on Star Wars fans whom Rian Johnson clearly hates
once you consider that, everything else is small potatoes
It's fine the way it is. It sets the tone purposely. It has weight for the audience because we're dealing with a Luke that gives zero fucks, even to the point that he genuinely tosses a lightsaber over his shoulder, Whether it's tossed over his shoulder or dropped at his feet, (probably would be awkward framing on the latter), the message is still loud and clear.
The lightsaber toss made the theater giggle but I don't think it was strictly meant as humor, nor as disrespect on a meta level. It was meant to help show how utterly depressed and disillusioned Luke really was.
If Luke dropped it at his feet this thread would be filled with people complaining about Luke "mic dropping" the saber.
TLJ was a sure bet to open higher than RO because it was the next mainline film (not Side film). The troubling thing is that it OPENED almost as high as TFA but then fell harder than any of the previous two. So much so that it is now trading blows with a film that opened at 155 million versus the 220 million of TLJ.
If opened almost equal to TFA but is holding worse than TFA and Rogue One. That's a concern if the films are going to start opening worse and holding worse. We can hold the main entries and anthologies to different expectations sure, but do you think that Solo will open higher
Than RO? And what happens to that film if it follows the universal overall worsening holds that are happening to all of these new films? It has the lowest opening and lowest tail of any SW film yet.
If he drops it, he just rejects it.
Him tossing it is not only rejecting it but just showing, like you said, have little he gives a shit. Tossing it just cements how much this means to him now, absolutely nothing.
It's not "trading blows" with Rogue One. It's surpassed it's entire run in 3 weekends.
I mean... it is in the realm of things that could possibly happen in a physics-based universe. But it never does. Believe me, there is always a way and even an average screenwriter will find it, let alone two. It Trevorrow couldn't piece something, it must've been the whole story, the often-cited yet always vague, creative differences. This I can believe; his vision didn't mesh with that of Disney or he didn't want to continue from where TLJ left off - sure. But him leaving after the Book of Henry flopped and many starting to question his ability to direct IX... I dunno. Moreover, the constant problems of Lucasfilm and their talent really put LF in a bad light; this can happen once or twice, but this is too much to be just a series of unfortunate events.
Lol ;D
It could have set up some good psyche gags and giving Rey swirlies in the Dark Hole
If TLJ was a Karate Kid remake(without the comedy, Im talking tutelage) set in the star wars universe with Luke playing a true teacher
This movie does 2 billion.
That is because of its 65 million higher opening, its percentage holds are worse than TFA or RO. It barely beat out RO 3rd week in its third week.
New Years spread (3rd week for both) (TLJ missed projections again)
TFA 98.3 Million
TLJ: 67.2 million
RO: 65.5 million
RO had better Sunday-Monday. (Hence trading blows)
If TLJ had held to TFA the same as it had opened (within 12.7%) then by now TLJ would have made
647 500 000 It's over 100 million behind what its opening suggested and now trading blows in dailies with Rogue One, a film that opened almost 50% less than TFA.
Again this is why it's called a troubling trend. It has dropped off HARD compared to the previous two despite opening almost equal to TFA.
Will Solo continue this trend? Since it's not a mainline we can probably expect it to open lower than RO, but will it also continue the trend of each SW film being more front loaded than the last?
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Then pointed at Rey, and said "you're the heir to the Jedi I presume?" A pun and EU Legends joke all in one.
Let's go one step further and just mash it into Perfect Hair Forever
Lukewarm is the best definition for my experiences too. It's always "I like it but..." followed by a 2 hours discussion about what didn't work in the movie.
What if Luke turned around and chucked in into the ocean, then briefly reconnected to force push it further, but he hit it so hard it launched out of orbit and was sent flying through space and is forgotten about until Rey goes to confront Kylo Ren and then it smashes through the space window and impales Snoke just as he was about to tell Rey his origin story?
Probably but that's kinda cliche and tropey, even for SW
Its relevance to me is that it takes me out of the film. Seeing Obi Wan in his Jedi robes stroll into a diner that looks basically just like one down the road yanks me right out of the film.
Canton Bite isn't that bad but it still similarly pulled me out of the film with how it was presented.
Same thing with the more contemporary language like "I'm holding for" or "page turner."
That stuff goes beyond "recognizable and believable" to being straight "of our world."
The box office talk is strange to me. It makes perfect sense that TLJ isn't making as much as TFA did. TFA was the "return" of Star Wars in the public eye more or less, it was always gonna be a far more significant event. The same happened with Phantom Menace, as far as the numbers I'm seeing. Even ESB and RotJ did significantly worse than the original Star Wars.
Rey, Kylo's dad, and Luke Skywalker already failed turning him to the light side. Luke spent a big chunk of his adult life coming to terms with the fact that Snoke "had already turned his heart".
Rey suddenly turning him after the last two films beat us over the head with how he's never coming back to the light is horrendous writing.
It literally reverses all of what his character is built on. And Luke.
And please don't bring up Vader because it's a terrible comparison with completely different context, narratively
I'm not sure of the tone either, but it comes minutes after a phone prank that included a "yo momma" joke. The audience on my first viewing was nervous in the first 20 minutes of the movie. There were a few audible "Is this a joke?" comments. And then you get the entire skit with Luke and the blue milk creature (which wouldn't really be slapstick if it wasn't for the look the creature gives to Rey).
The movie steers the course after that, but I still feel Rian went overboard with it. I understand deconstructing the expectations about Luke, but the first half of TLJ borders on the mystifying.
I agree that it's a bit of an uncanny valley moment, but it feels like a very minor flaw to me.
Don't you ever compare Like Skywalker to Black Dynamite. Don't you ever!
It's like seeing cosplayers eating at Waffle House. It didn't help that the CG was too clean.