Star Wars: The Last Jedi |OT3| The War is Just Beginning (Unmarked Spoilers)

Seeya · Dec 31, 2017

Einchy said:
I feel a Force vision...it tells me this still won't be enough for you...hmmm...yes...it tells me you will somehow try to pretend like this doesn't disprove what you just said.

RIP.

"I got into trouble because… I was quoted as saying to Rian that I fundamentally disagree with everything you decided about Luke, and it was inartfully [sic] phrased,"

https://www.google.ca/amp/comicbook...wars-the-last-jedi-mark-hamill-luke-insulted/

Now maybe he didn't mean it in that way when he first said this, but you can't really imagine who else he could be referring to.

Edit: to be clear I am not saying he's lying. This is more so me commenting on that it's logical to assume that he was talking with Disney.

Crossing Eden · Dec 31, 2017

Tideas said:
as oppose to all the droids that's been shooting at the jedi all during the war? come on man.

Dude even the droids knew what was up:

There's a reason billions of droids couldn't do what a major surprise attack could.

Einchy · Dec 31, 2017

Seeya said:
"I got into trouble because… I was quoted as saying to Rian that I fundamentally disagree with everything you decided about Luke, and it was inartfully [sic] phrased,"

https://www.google.ca/amp/comicbook...wars-the-last-jedi-mark-hamill-luke-insulted/

Force visions never lie.

Chumley · Dec 31, 2017

Seeya said:
Prove it, wanna take a 1 month ban bet? :)

Yes, and you already lost.

Surfinn · Dec 31, 2017

Oh I forgot the third falsehood people will continue to push:

Mark Hamill is a liar

Even though there's no evidence for it at all

LionPride · Dec 31, 2017

Freddie is lowkey making me love the movie even more

God damn

Einchy · Dec 31, 2017

Mark Hamill only tells the truth when I feel it might collaborate what I want to believe but when he very specifically disproves my exact belief, he's a stinking liar.

NinjaGarden · Dec 31, 2017

Seeya said:
"I got into trouble because… I was quoted as saying to Rian that I fundamentally disagree with everything you decided about Luke, and it was inartfully [sic] phrased,"

https://www.google.ca/amp/comicbook...wars-the-last-jedi-mark-hamill-luke-insulted/

Now maybe he didn't mean it in that way when he first said this, but you can't really imagine who else he could be referring to.

If you aren't willing to take people at their word then what's the point in discussing anything

LionPride · Dec 31, 2017

NinjaGarden said:
If you aren't willing to take people at their word then what's the point in discussing anything

There is none

Chumley · Dec 31, 2017

Seeya said:
"I got into trouble because… I was quoted as saying to Rian that I fundamentally disagree with everything you decided about Luke, and it was inartfully [sic] phrased,"

https://www.google.ca/amp/comicbook...wars-the-last-jedi-mark-hamill-luke-insulted/

Now maybe he didn't mean it in that way when he first said this, but you can't really imagine who else he could be referring to.

We already proved you wrong, now you're just deciding to not take Hamill at his word to fit your narrative.

StuBurns · Dec 31, 2017

The talk about backstory always surprises me. Maybe for this one, yeah, but I remember him saying the same shit with TFA. Saying JJ wasn't engaged in helping him with his backstory. All he had to do was stand on a hill and look brooding for a few seconds. How much backstory do you need for that?

Jest · Dec 31, 2017

Seeya said:
"I got into trouble because… I was quoted as saying to Rian that I fundamentally disagree with everything you decided about Luke, and it was inartfully [sic] phrased,"

https://www.google.ca/amp/comicbook...wars-the-last-jedi-mark-hamill-luke-insulted/

Now maybe he didn't mean it in that way when he first said this, but you can't really imagine who else he could be referring to.

An article.. about an article from the same site... about a red carpet quip from Variety. Whew!

Also.. "I got into trouble because I was quoted as saying to Ryan that I fundamentally disagree with Ryan about everything you decided about Luke." That's the quote. "I got into trouble." But if Disney were to reprimand him... why wouldn't they gag order it?

Seeya · Dec 31, 2017

Einchy said:
Force visions never lie.

While we're on the subject though, his most recent comment about Luke that I've seen is as follows

"Listen, I still haven't accepted it completely, but it's only a movie," Hamill said. "I hope people like it. I hope they don't get upset. I came to really believe that Rian was the exact man they needed for this job."

I can't remember if this one came from the magazine interview or the post TLJ press junket, but they are his words. I actually have most of his comments sourced on my PC so I can post them later if people are interested

Chumley said:
Yes, and you already lost.

Except I haven't bud and you can't accept after the fact.

Einchy · Dec 31, 2017

Seeya said:
While we're on the subject though, his most recent comment about Luke that I've seen is as follows

"Listen, I still haven't accepted it completely, but it's only a movie," Hamill said. "I hope people like it. I hope they don't get upset. I came to really believe that Rian was the exact man they needed for this job."

I can't remember if this one came from the magazine interview or the post TLJ press junket, but they are his words

What's this gotta do with you calling Mark Hamill a liar about Disney?

Surfinn · Dec 31, 2017

Got into trouble can mean a lot of shit. I took that as "I got misunderstood and everybody's twisting it the wrong way"

It's ridiculous to use it as evidence that Disney is silencing him or forcibly changing his words.

Einchy · Dec 31, 2017

Surfinn said:
Got into trouble can mean a lot of shit. I took that as "I got misunderstood and everybody's twisting it the wrong way" It's ridiculous to use it as evidence that Disney is silencing him or forcibly changing his words.

The best part is that that quote is when he was praising Rian for what he did with the film but people took his comments out of context. This was back when we had first learned that The Last Jedi was going to be a, "don't meet your heroes" type of story.

Surfinn · Dec 31, 2017

Einchy said:
The best part is that that quote is when he was praising Rian for what he did with the film but people took his comments out of context.

Nah just ignore that please so my narrative looks better

Seeya · Dec 31, 2017

Einchy said:
What's this gotta do with you calling Mark Hamill a liar about Disney?

What? I said that the claims are exaggerated but most likely true (in substance) as in he has or did have issues with Luke and that at one point given how Hollywood works chances are he was at some point phoned and asked if he would issue a followup satement because of how it looked. That's not the same as Disney litteraly telling him what to say. I posted his words which I can cite back to feature length article from variety where he says he got in trouble. My comments here are consistent with my previous comments.

Einchy said:
The best part is that that quote is when he was praising Rian for what he did with the film but people took his comments out of context. This was back when we had first learned that The Last Jedi was going to be a, "don't meet your heroes" type of story.

Like I said, he has been careful to seperate his feelings on Luke from the film as a whole. People just don't want to listen to him because drama.

MisterHero · Dec 31, 2017

If there was a burning building and I had to choose between saving Luke Skywalker and the Joker, I would pick Luke every time.

but I'm stuck with Joker now

dlauv · Dec 31, 2017

I mean, don't trust Hammil completely, but you seem worse if you outright accuse him of lying. If the dude is open enough to criticize Luke's portrayal before release, why the fuck would they care after the opening weekend? They're really scraping by on the third weekend, huh?

LionPride · Dec 31, 2017

Can I say again how much I love Driver in this movie? Like his scene where he tells Rey the truth of her parents. He is so quiet when he is prompting her to just admit it. Like, that one scene is fucking bomb as hell. The lacking of emotion is the crux of that scene. All of that emotion in the scene is within Rey. All with her face and eyes while Kylo is nothing, not even when he asks her to join him. He thinks it's worked and he doesn't need to try. And when it doesn't he gets so so so flippin angry. His anger at her holding on to the past and not being willing to be by her side conquering the universe. His anger is not stopped at all. Not once. He goes from cool and calm to a fucking rage monster. He is literally told by the last image of his Jedi Master that his anger will get him nowhere and he does not give a damn. He wants revenge. He is fueled by hate, fear, anger.

Alx · Dec 31, 2017

TheChuggernaut said:
You say this, but we had someone arguing for pages about how they were doing too well against those dudes and it ruined his suspension of disbelief. I'm in a similar boat as you in regards to that fight. I don't have a huge issue with it, but I was surprised they struggled as much as they did.

I'm pretty sure those guys are elite soldiers that were specifically trained to fight Jedi (or force users in general), hence the energy weapons designed to counter light sabers (I may have gotten that from one of the SW video games, but it seems consistent with their design and role). Also while Kylo showed he's powerful with the Force (freezing blaster bolts, force-skyping, ...), it doesn't mean he's good at everything. Maybe saber fighting isn't his forte.

Chumley · Dec 31, 2017

Seeya said:
What? I said that the claims are exaggerated but most likely true (in substance) as in he has or did have issues with Luke and that at one point given how Hollywood works chances are he was at some point phoned and asked to issue a statement and that is different than Disney telling him what to say. I posted his words which I can cite back to a article from variety where he says he got in trouble.

Like I said, he has been careful to seperate his feelings on Luke from the film as a whole. People just don't want to listen to him because drama.

We linked to a tweet where he clears up all of the insinuations you're making. You're calling him a liar by saying "No, THIS is what really happened".

Einchy · Dec 31, 2017

Seeya said:
People just don't want to listen to him because drama.

"people"

Seeya · Dec 31, 2017

dlauv said:
I mean, don't trust Hammil completely, but you seem worse if you outright accuse him of lying. If the dude is open enough to criticize Luke's portrayal before release, why the fuck would they care after the opening weekend?

I seriously find it weird if people think that I was acussing him of outright lying, that's impossible to prove either way.

LionPride · Dec 31, 2017

Alx said:
I'm pretty sure those guys are elite soldiers that were specifically trained to fight Jedi (or force users in general), hence the energy weapons designed to counter light sabers (I may have gotten that from one of the SW video games, but it seems consistent with their design and role). Also while Kylo showed he's powerful with the Force (freezing blaster bolts, force-skyping, ...), it doesn't mean he's good at everything. Maybe saber fighting isn't his forte.

He fought three guards by himself and waa getting the better of them until he was caught off guard

Seeya · Dec 31, 2017

Chumley said:
We linked to a tweet where he clears up all of the insinuations you're making. You're calling him a liar by saying "No, THIS is what really happened".

you do realize that his tweet doesn't say that he never got in trouble, right? And I have him on the record saying that he did? And apparently on the record also saying that he's not completely over the whole Luke thing? Find me one statement from him more recent than the press junket where he says he changed his mind on Luke?

Like, I get it, StarWars is serious buisiness but he has been careful to draw a distinction between the film and Luke. At best this is murky territory but the fact that he had, and it looks like may still have, issues with the decisions made for Luke? That's not really one of them.

dlauv · Dec 31, 2017

The way Rey looks into the dark side and sees the truth is fuckin' great. She sees herself. She has to deal with the fact that she's all she has and she already has all of the answers, even if she (and the audience) had no clue what was happening at the time. Visually unique and interesting. On gaming side we'd call this Replay Value.

Seeya said:
I seriously find it weird if people think that I was acussing him of outright lying, that's impossible to prove either way.

General response to incredulous posters. Didn't mean to single you out.

Seeya · Dec 31, 2017

dlauv said:
The way Rey looks into the dark side and sees the truth is fuckin' great. She sees herself. She has to deal with the fact that she's all she has and she already has all of the answers, even if she (and the audience) had no clue what was happening at the time. Visually unique and interesting.

General response to incredulous posters. Didn't mean to single you out.

Oh all good!

Veelk · Dec 31, 2017

LionPride said:
His anger is not stopped at all. Not once. He goes from cool and calm to a fucking rage monster. He is literally told by the last image of his Jedi Master that his anger will get him nowhere and he does not give a damn. He wants revenge. He is fueled by hate, fear, anger.

A lot of the stuff that the trilogy does is frame the elements of the past under a more realistic light. The Sith were told all the time how they're angry, hateful and that makes them fearsome. The narrative takes them seriously as edgelords.

The unique thing about Driver's depiction is that it is a more realistic image of what an angry, hateful guy looks like. Just this genuinely dangerous, but simultaneously kind of pathetic immature asshole. Again, he has a lot of humanizing characteristics, but in that scene, you just kind of shake your head and think "Come on man, grow up already."

Deleted member 31133 · Dec 31, 2017

I watched it again last night with my son. I really noticed the pacing issues and plot holes this time round.

I still enjoyed it, but it's a pretty average Star Wars movie. I'd rank it below all OT movies and below TFA. If the pacing was better it's be ranked higher. That whole casino planet scene could have been cut and the movie would have been better for it.

Surfinn · Dec 31, 2017

"They didn't tell him what to say, they just told him to release a statement that changes what he said"

You can't claim that Hamill isn't a liar and that Disney told him to publicly change his opinion. Because he specifically said that's not true.

LionPride · Dec 31, 2017

Veelk said:
A lot of the stuff that the trilogy does is frame the elements of the past under a more realistic light. The Sith were told all the time how they're angry, hateful and that makes them fearsome. The narrative takes them seriously as edgelords.

The unique thing about Driver's depiction is that it is a more realistic image of what an angry, hateful guy looks like. Just this genuinely dangerous, but simultaneously kind of pathetic immature asshole. Again, he has a lot of humanizing characteristics, but in that scene, you just kind of shake your head and think "Come on man, grow up already."

It's realistic

In TFA he appears as a petulant child honestly. He's a brat with the ability to kill a motherfucker if he wanted and throws tantrums constantly. He's just like an angry teenager all the time. Hell killing his dad just fucked him up even more emotionally

In TLJ he just doesn't know what to do and does what he knows best, take over using his anger, he kills Snoke after being berated for his performance and visage. You see that he can't grow past his needless anger and hate, he only knows how to be angry

Seeya · Dec 31, 2017

You can absolutely contact a person knowing what actually went down, and even key them to the impact of it that they might not be aware of without telling them what to say and he could have already been on that train without them forcing anything or telling him he had to, or what to say.

dlauv said:
I mean, don't trust Hammil completely, but you seem worse if you outright accuse him of lying. If the dude is open enough to criticize Luke's portrayal before release, why the fuck would they care after the opening weekend? They're really scraping by on the third weekend, huh?

Well, I think all of the millions of views on those YouTube click bait videos are a bit of a concern.

Alx · Dec 31, 2017

dlauv said:
The way Rey looks into the dark side and sees the truth is fuckin' great. She sees herself. She has to deal with the fact that she's all she has and she already has all of the answers, even if she (and the audience) had no clue what was happening at the time. Visually unique and interesting. On gaming side we'd call this Replay Value.

One interesting thing about the Rey character is how she naturally embraces everything happening around her, without showing much surprise (at least for anything Force-related). She didn't seem that confused in Ep7 that she could force-control people, attract objects or fight with a saber. Nor does she in Ep8 when she realizes she can chat with Kylo from across the galaxy, or calmly explores an "evil cave".
Maybe it's just poor writing, but the way it happens in Ep8 (with Luke being frightened by how comfortable she is with all of it) suggests there's more to it. Hopefully it is detailed through some character development in Ep9.

Reven Wolf · Dec 31, 2017

Surfinn said:
"They didn't tell him what to say, they just told him to release a statement that changes what he said"

You can't claim that Hamill isn't a liar and that Disney told him to publicly change his opinion. Because he specifically said that's not true.

Yup, such a claim is literally calling Hamill a list because he literally stated otherwise. To disagree with that is to claim he's lying.

charmeleon · Dec 31, 2017

Finally got around to seeing this, i'm amazed by the positive reception to it. For me its by far the worst movie since the Prequels (at least till Solo comes out the way things are looking).

Definitely see where all the common plot,pacing and humor complaints came from.

Seeya · Dec 31, 2017

Reven Wolf said:
Yup, such a claim is literally calling Hamill a list because he literally stated otherwise. To disagree with that is to claim he's lying.

No. Do you want me to post the actual interview where he responds to the question?

Sorry bud, you're in the wrong on this.

Reven Wolf · Dec 31, 2017

Seeya said:
No.

It's basic logic. If he says that he was never told to say something on particular, and you say that he was, that's calling him a liar.

You are directly disagreing with his statement, here's an example: "I did not kill that person" and if you were to go "I think you did kill that person" you would essentially be accusing me of lying.

Seeya · Dec 31, 2017

Reven Wolf said:
It's basic logic. If he says that he was never told to say something on particular, and you say that he was, that's calling him a liar.

You are directly disagreing with his statement, here's an example: "I did not kill that person" and if you were to go "I think you did kill that person" you would essentially be accusing me of lying.

You seem confused. I can post the article if you want.

Chumley · Dec 31, 2017

Seeya said:
You seem confused. I can post the article if you want.

You really need to actually defend your baseless claims instead of calling other posters here "confused" for calling you out.

Reven Wolf · Dec 31, 2017

Seeya said:
You seem confused. I can post the article if you want.

You seem more confused, your article doesn't stop Mark's tweet (which was provided to you) from existing.

Are you or are you not saying that Mark is incorrect in what he said in the tweet?

TheChuggernaut · Dec 31, 2017

Alx said:
I'm pretty sure those guys are elite soldiers that were specifically trained to fight Jedi (or force users in general), hence the energy weapons designed to counter light sabers (I may have gotten that from one of the SW video games, but it seems consistent with their design and role). Also while Kylo showed he's powerful with the Force (freezing blaster bolts, force-skyping, ...), it doesn't mean he's good at everything. Maybe saber fighting isn't his forte.

Don't get me wrong, I was more surprised then holding it against the movie. It was a cool looking fight scene anyway.

Jest · Dec 31, 2017

Seeya said:
You seem confused. I can post the article if you want.

You said that "Mark Hamill...has been silenced by Disney" is most likely true AND that no one has evidence to the contrary. Hamill's own tweet both says that he hasn't been silenced by anyone and it serves as evidence to the contrary.

So....

Seeya · Dec 31, 2017

Reven Wolf said:
You seem more confused, your article doesn't stop Mark's tweet (which was provided to you) from existing.

Are you or are you not saying that Mark is incorrect in what he said in the tweet?

Sheesh you two.

I'm not saying that his tweet is incorrect. This is exactly why before jumping the gun, people need to explicitly lay out the terms of a ban bet if they're going to have one at all. I can just as easily turn around and say 'hahaha you are clearly wrong about mark not having had issues with Luke!' People need to establish what it's about.

LionPride · Dec 31, 2017

I'm rewatching TFA and Rey and Finn have so much chemistry from jump. Like from the moment she thinks he's a resistence member, to him just being a try hard nerd because Rey is pretty and her child like wonder at seeing a "resistence member", to "Quit holding my hand!" it's just so great. Man I fucking love Rey and Finn together as much as I love Kylo's character. They're just so fucking likeable like my god

Chumley · Dec 31, 2017

Seeya said:
Sheesh you two.

I'm not saying that his tweet is incorrect. This is exactly why before jumping the gun, people need to explicitly lay out the terms of a ban bey. I can just as easily turn around and say 'hahaha you are clearly wrong about mark not having had issues with Luke!' People need to establish what it's about.

You said its likely true that Disney shut him up. You asked for proof to the contrary, proof was given in his tweet. It literally does not get any simpler than that. That's what your ban bet was about, and you lost the bet.

Mockerre · Dec 31, 2017

Alx said:
One interesting thing about the Rey character is how she naturally embraces everything happening around her, without showing much surprise (at least for anything Force-related). She didn't seem that confused in Ep7 that she could force-control people, attract objects or fight with a saber. Nor does she in Ep8 when she realizes she can chat with Kylo from across the galaxy, or calmly explores an "evil cave".
Maybe it's just poor writing, but the way it happens in Ep8 (with Luke being frightened by how comfortable she is with all of it) suggests there's more to it. Hopefully it is detailed through some character development in Ep9.

I wouldn't call it interesting, the opposite in fact. This is really bad writing.

Einchy · Dec 31, 2017

LionPride said:
I'm rewatching TFA and Rey and Finn have so much chemistry from jump. Like from the moment she thinks he's a resistence member, to him just being a try hard nerd because Rey is pretty and her child like wonder at seeing a "resistence member", to "Quit holding my hand!" it's just so great. Man I fucking love Rey and Finn together as much as I love Kylo's character. They're just so fucking likeable like my god

Sad we didn't get Finn and Rey in TLJ but we did get Kylo and Rey, which was fantastic. In IX we'll probably get a lot of Rey/Finn and Rey/Kylo.

Surfinn · Dec 31, 2017

LionPride said:
I'm rewatching TFA and Rey and Finn have so much chemistry from jump. Like from the moment she thinks he's a resistence member, to him just being a try hard nerd because Rey is pretty and her child like wonder at seeing a "resistence member", to "Quit holding my hand!" it's just so great. Man I fucking love Rey and Finn together as much as I love Kylo's character. They're just so fucking likeable like my god

My man. I miss this in TLJ. I still think both Rey and Finn were handled better as characters in TFA. From "let go of my hand" to *offers hand* "follow me"

TFA is truly a fantastic SW and film in general.

I miss the simplicity and magic of it to be honest with you. But I do still love TLJ.

Star Wars: The Last Jedi |OT3| The War is Just Beginning (Unmarked Spoilers)

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