But the only reason it worked was that Hux said it was a distraction and ordered to keep attacking the transports. If they shot the Raddus, the Supremacy would still be up.
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi |OT3| The War is Just Beginning (Unmarked Spoilers)
- Thread starter Bronx-Man
- Start date
But the only reason it worked was that Hux said it was a distraction and ordered to keep attacking the transports. If they shot the Raddus, the Supremacy would still be up.
All of Twenty people witnessed that. It's not like it was being live streamed on Rebelbook Live. Don't know how such a handful of people convince a whole galaxy.
It goes up to 20K posts. So 400 pages if you have 50 posts per page.
Amazing
You literally linked an article you didn't read at all
That is all about political exit polls and has nothing to do with movies or CinemaScore
I never once argued that there's a correlation between fan and critic reception
I think this movie holds up well in its concepts, which makes it way more interesting post-discussion, but the way the film executes them is poor. The summary of the film and the discussions around it are a blast to read, but I remember feeling none of that enthusiasm in both viewings.
This film has some really amazing concepts that were extremely goofily handled, which is a shame.
I like Luke in this film, I enjoy Rey and Kylo a lot and the implications behind what could come next, but Finn and Rose's subplot was garbage and retroactively ruined my boy Finn from the first film.
I think this will be remembered as a film that's more interesting to talk about than actually watch, much like the prequels.
This film has some really amazing concepts that were extremely goofily handled, which is a shame.
I like Luke in this film, I enjoy Rey and Kylo a lot and the implications behind what could come next, but Finn and Rose's subplot was garbage and retroactively ruined my boy Finn from the first film.
I think this will be remembered as a film that's more interesting to talk about than actually watch, much like the prequels.
The story spread. Did you miss the final scene? The kids were recreating it.
The bolded is the exact reason why Luke commits this mistake.
You know how Luke talks about the hubris of the Jedi? Well, in that scene he also talks about his own hubris and his own belief in the Luke Skywalker myth and legend. He had felt Ben being corrupted for a while, so he went into the hut that night to see how bad it really was and what he saw was nothing but corruption, he saw visions of the future where Ben would destroy everything he had built and everything he loved. Ben would be the galaxy's undoing. If Luke Skywalker sees this, then it must be true, and if Luke Skywalker can't stop it from happening, then who can? So for a fraction of a second animal instinct kicked in but as soon as it kicked in, he pushed it back. Ashamed of himself. Right after that he saw, "the eyes of a frighten by whos master had failed him" he knew at that time he had committed a horrible mistake.
This is so much more human, so much more rich, than Luke actually being right all the time.
Well yeah, but if it's light-speed you could also do it from far away. If they have the tech to avoid collisions over that great a distance it would logically follow they could specifically target objects in their path.
And maybe I was misremembering due to all the explosions but I thought a bunch of regular star destroyers got fucked up as well, even if the giant mega-ship was still technically functioning.
and Hux should be demoted to piss boy for this order. As in a universe where hyperdrives can do that much damage, any ship facing you should be considered an unignorable threat. His incompetence cost the FO their best asset. There's no way he didn't know what was about to happen, he's been hyperspace 100s of times himself
4) Why didn't the rebels just light speed into the Shield generating structure around the planet in TFA? Then just light speed travel into the Star Killer Base Weapon?
Why didn't the fleet do that at the end of ROTJ as they were losing the battle? Why didn't Leia use a droid in ANH at the beginning of the movie to send Darth Vader light speed into his own ship? Why didn't the rebels just light speed a thousand ships into the death star. These are pointless questions to ask about Star Wars movies.
And no the Empire's ability to detect life on board was stated and shown a few times in the OT. So my only guess is you just don't like Star Wars movies in general.
Why does space have gravity? How is it possible for those bombs to fall downwards? How do the top bombs not bump into the bottom bombs as they would have more time to generate acceleration due to the gravity of the ship which is towards the bottom of the bomber. Inertia would determine that the top bombs would have bumped into the ones below them as they entered space.
How come whenever a ship blows up in Star Wars it always falls downwards? Rather than continuing in it's direction of motion?
5) FO figured out because the code breaker sold them out. Otherwise they had no idea. Which was as in your face of a revelation as you can possible get.
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Amazing.
You literally don't understand that polls can cover different topics but use the same methodology.
Are you aware how CinemaScores generates results? It probably sounds a lot like how you do political exit polls!
Have a good day :P
It's pretty powerful but nowhere near as powerful as a Death Star, let alone Starkiller Base.
Literally nothing in the article you linked talks about anything but politics.
You clearly didn't read what you posted.
That article doesn't talk about general methodology (across mediums) for exit polls, it talks about exit polls specifically within the context of the political landscape.
Man
Sadly, that's how a lot of audiences saw that movie. Same with Mother!, audiences did NOT like that movie at all and the CinemaScore reflected that.
I may be misremembering too but I think it only clips the Supremacy's wing. And we're talking about a Mon Calamari Cruiser that is also more reinforced that other MC Cruisers.
Yeah he should be demoted. But I'm sure the only person that can demote him is Kylo and he also fucked up big, so it won't happen.
Takes like 2 seconds to google cinemascore and read up on them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CinemaScore
https://www.cinemascore.com/cinemascores/
Arguing the methology because you don't like the results seems kind of backwards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CinemaScore
https://www.cinemascore.com/cinemascores/
Arguing the methology because you don't like the results seems kind of backwards.
Rian Johnson actually discussed this in an interview in a semi-joking way that they skipped a "whispering montage" where a First Order walker pilot tell his cousin who mentions it to guy in a cantina and it spreads from there.
Nah it's better to just blindly post irrelevant articles without actually reading them
I....
1. Exit polls have a much larger intrinsic margin for error than regular polls. This is because of what are known as cluster sampling techniques. Exit polls are not conducted at all precincts, but only at some fraction thereof. Although these precincts are selected at random and are supposed to be reflective of their states as a whole, this introduces another opportunity for error to occur (say, for instance, that a particular precinct has been canvassed especially heavily by one of the campaigns). This makes the margins for error somewhere between 50-90% higher than they would be for comparable telephone surveys.
4. Exit polls challenge the definition of a random sample. Although the exit polls have theoretically established procedures to collect a random sample — essentially, having the interviewer approach every nth person who leaves the polling place — in practice this is hard to execute at a busy polling place, particularly when the pollster may be standing many yards away from the polling place itself because of electioneering laws.
relate directly to general methodology for exit polls and parts that you might think aren't relevant are actually reflected in how CinimaScores does polling. For instance 'not conducted in all precincts but a fraction there off' introducing possible geographic based biases? Cinima Score only polls a handful of theaters.
Things like
2. Exit polls have consistently overstated the Democratic share of the vote.
5. Democrats may be more likely to participate in exit polls.
Only highlights that opt in exit polls have inherent biases because again you have to opt in on the spot.
Like I won't dispute that it wasn't the best link I could have found, but it's nowhere near what you're trying to frame it as.
Man.
I don't know what you're getting at
Idk it seemed pretty obvious what was happening with the whole room turning red. He made his choice. But w/e.
It's beyond silly to just cite the CinemaScores ranking as definitive proof when CinemaScores is only conducted around release and there are well known inherent issues with exit polls compared to other polling. This is just plain fact.
I mean I can keep going with another issue that crops up with in person stuff like this:
You'll probably see that there are much fewer F's and D's on CinimaScore compared to other sites like Rotten Tomatoes and IMDB. Because there's a well known phenomenon of people slightly over rating something when put on the spot. No one wants to be an ass.
I mean in the end it doesn't mean that everyone teh hates TLJ, but citing just a CinemaScore isn't really enough and you need to give some context to that number if that's all you're citing.
Look at Adam Driver's expression in this moment and tell me Kylo fully switched over to the Darkside.
https://youtu.be/yw-PFWJDObI?t=3m15s
This is what the script says about that expression:
Kylo Ren is somehow WEAKENED by this wicked act. Himself
horrified. His SHOCK is broken only when --
CHEWIE CRIES OUT IN AGONY! Chewie furiously FIRES AT KYLO
REN, HITTING HIM IN THE SIDE! Kylo Ren falls back, stunned.
TLJ progresses that and not regresses it.
To me it seems he wouldn't fully go until he killed his mother. It's obvious he loved her far more than his father.
Which would have been an awesome plot in EP IX. First he faces Han, then he faces Luke, finally he faces Leia and it's her to take him down.
Do they really do it this way? 400 cards per film on opening night from people who have a monetary stake in this (paid for tickets)? Wow. That's some bad methodology. And I'm saying this outside of TLJ context. Never knew how they did it. It's a nice way to get a general feel in the fleeting moment of a premiere to get the word of mouth going, but statistics it is not.
4) You are bolstering my point. As I said, the reason these things don't happen in ANH and in ROTJ is because the Star Wars universe has established rules for space combat which mirror those of WW2 cinema. This is done to make spaceship combat exciting and human. The reason people are nitpicking the Holdo scene is because it breaks our understanding of the universe. It invites the question why wasn't this done in ROTJ? Why wasn't this used against the Death Star? These questions would not surface if the script of TLJ did not invite them. And sadly, these questions will continue to surface, as in every future Star Wars space battle the elephant in the corner will be "why didn't that ship hyperspace into someone else before going down?"
People can complain about the TLJ bombers and the gravity, you can't stop 'em. I'm not going to defend that complaint, though, as it actually fits the WW2 style combat of Star Wars pretty well, and it made for a well executed, dramatic scene. We could also nitpick why a remote is required, why bombs can't be dropped from the cockpit, why bombs couldn't be dropped wirelessly from the Raddus, and on and on, but if the scene follows the rules of the universe and tells a good story, only the legit trolls will beat that drum. I can admit that it's a bit silly they didn't make the bombs be downward projected torpedoes, as was done with TIE bombers in ESB. The scene would still have worked either way. But it's the type of thing I could happily ignore, like sound in space, because it made the scene great and didn't introduce something that will break all past and future combat
5) I understand the codebreaker told them, not sure what this has to do with the question you were answering
Well, plus the First Order.
But it's not the first time a big event in the Star Wars universe is practically only experienced by a few people but widely known later on. We didn't always have Facebook in the real world and yet we know of important moments in history nonetheless.
Remember, in Star Wars ships travel through hyperspace. This could literally only work up close.
When I was a poor University student I've participated in market research where I was paid. Most focus groups also pay the participants something. This is not really a good argument to discredit the methology, you'd have to try harder.
Why, it has a data set that's broadly correlated and sampled in the same way so you can use the data and say with some confidence one movie is liked by the audience more than another. This is much better than anecdotes and self-selecting polls on the internet. You really shouldn't be choosing this hill.
No, no it is not. They also break down respondents along perceived demographic lines to try and see how it will play to various groups, but given the small amount of polling that they are already doing in very compromised circumstances (beyond the ticket thing even), it opens it up to even more potential distortion with how they're doing it.
I mean did this question exist in WWII when the Japanese rammed their fighters into battleships?
Was there a huge group of people demanding that allied air forces start implementing those same tactics? Or wondering why they weren't?
Unless I'm missing something I don't remember that becoming an official tactic.
I asked about the previous movies because I always thought why don't they just do that. If they can pin point exact places to travel to that are light years away, how can they not pin point something just thousands of KM away? You wouldn't even have to crash your ship throught them. As the shields could do the damage.
Again the Rebels have a harder time coming up with Ships than the FO. It was already hinted at when Poe used up all their bombers to take out that Dreadnaught and Leia lecturing him. Watch all the movies before and realize that the Rebels always only have one ship of that Class size in the battle. So you would sacrifice the head of the fleet every battle just to take out a few of the enemies ships?
How many leaders and ships of that class size do the Rebels have? How many Dreadnaughts and Star Ship Destroyers do the FO have?
And as for 5. You are the one who said they found out anyway. I'm just stating they wouldn't have found out had Code Breaker not sold them out. Once the transports were safe Holdo would have jumped to another planet on her last bit of fuel and the fleet would have pursued her and destroyed the ship there. That was the plan which didn't go through because Code Breaker sold them out.
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Let's back up. Do you understand why exit polling is considered unreliable?
Ok look, if you're not going to engage this honestly there's no point. It's weird to see you still attacking me for 'not reading and article I posted' when you clearly didn't and addressed nothing in my post.
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I'm glad you went back to actually read what you posted at least
But
Both of those paragraphs are copied from the link you provided.. and again, are written in the context of exit polls in the political landscape.
Comparing political polls to CinemaScore is way off base.
You've done nothing to actually provide anything substantial that discredits CinemaScore in a significant way.. which has apparently been a trusted industry standard since the late 70s.
The fact of the matter is that the movie is performing well in the box office, has received excellent reviews from critics, and there is no proof or hard evidence of a "sizable" chunk of moviegoers disliking it. From what I can see, again, there's a loud minority who dislike/hate the film and people generally liked it.
And it's a real bad look to just copy and paste from a source you clearly didn't read when you first posted it.
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Exactly. I'll bet money that in the final film Kylo has a major reckoning from all this. Since he's now in command of the entire first order, maybe he tries to just shut down the entire operation instead of doing something cliche like trying to join the Republic.
He has never been ok with just killing his Dad, and he straight up stopped himself from killing his Mom. Assuming they do a time jump and Leia is now dead, they might even play into that with having someone tell him and then having him react to that. I've been saying since TFA that people are seriously sleeping on what is going on with that character and its not as straightforward as bad guy becomes even bigger bad guy only to die in climactic battle.
A lot of the people online you see trying to shit on TLJ however they can lack basic understanding of the way films work, and in some cases might never actually watch movies outside of major blockbusters. That, or they're being obtuse on purpose.
An expression only says so much, I don't know what he's thinking. He looks in shock, which isn't unreasonable, or totally devoid of any emotion relating to what just happened which is what I get out of that. He just killed his dad and he feels nothing. I don't really care what the script says, it is what is shown that matters. I'm just perceiving this scene differently, I don't think we'll see eye to eye on this.
This isn't surprising, TLJ is much better than TFA, and this is coming from someone who loved TFA.
You mean from the fivethirtyeight article on exit polling that shows up as the top research result on google?
Sure I do, of the 10 reasons given at least 7 reasons are specific to election day voting, democratic voters , or the nature of an election that has nothing to do with sampling of opinion for a movie in more controlled conditions.
Maybe you're new to this, but in an election there is an actual result and exist polling is an attempt to sample that result. A cinemascore is an attempt to sample audience opinion. There isn't an actual election for which movie is the president of the universe.
I have to agree, I also really loved TFA but TLJ really is in another league imo.
Why are you just citing the article? Answer the question. I'm asking you about exit polling.
But then TLJ continues that idea.
Are you saying that both JJ and Rian are wrong with their interpretation of how they wrote and directed Kylo Ren? If they're both telling you he hadn't turned after killing Han, then maybe you're just wrong?
I did, 7 of the 10 reasons given are irrelevant.
And I added
please read before hitting respond.
TLJ literally confirmed what the TFA script is saying in that post you quoted.
I think the poster basically already identified the issue was the interpretation.
I disagree with the poster's interpretation and evidence does go against it, but at the end of the day if someone interprets or sees a performance as a certain way it'll stay that way as a subjective opinion.