RLM is awesome.
Not only that but Kylo at the end tried to kill her again lol.
By ep IX, she will have already died.
Not only that but Kylo at the end tried to kill her again lol.
By ep IX, she will have already died.
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi |OT3| The War is Just Beginning (Unmarked Spoilers)
- Thread starter Bronx-Man
- Start date
Or... Maybe Luke has seen what the dark side can do to a person and tried to do the most reasonable thing.
Its like being able to kill Hitler when he was young.
In small numbers (I say this as someone who hated the film on my first viewing)
And RLM still contributes to engaging conversation in bad faith. They do more to hurt general criticism than help it
I don't agree. Most of their criticism seems just as valid as the rest.
Most of the criticism you are seeing from "fans" are all over the place. LUKE IS NO FUCKING HERO, GUY!
That was one of the harder bits to swallow from TLJ for me.
We see Ren hesitant to fire on his mom but then we have Luke and even Leia saying how he's totally gone.
So dumb.
It's not even necessarily their on paper opinions or criticism, as they do make some valid points.
But rather the execution of explaining/presenting said opinions. A refusal to acknowledge the (many) positives of the film while harping on the negatives like LF made a Jar Jar origin story
And yeah, people who hate/dislike the film seem to be a pretty extreme minority right now, as with TFA
Lol, man, get a grip. It's not a conspiracy. A sizable group of people doesn't like the movie. A sizable group does. It's fine. You don't need to try to diminish the dissenting voice each time you type in a post. If the movie is good, it'll float.
The force let's you sense conflict within people and all that jazz
when someone did a collection of impressions in OT2 or 3 it came out almost dead even.
Maybe not hate, but I mentioned before I was the ONLY person in my screening group that liked TLJ. I was also the only person that disliked RO in that same group. I feel like on both ends I'm in bizzarro land.
Lol
A sizable group
When it's got a CinemaScore of A and is about to hit 1B in a few days
It's already past floating
I actually think a time jump makes it easier on the filmmakers to retroactively establish that these guys are all buddies now, even if it's "cheating" to some extent. All you have to do is have them in a fun action scene together in the first 10 minutes of the film (before things get serious) and you've basically filled the audience in. You can even establish romantic developments in this off-screen time, a la ESB. Might be a bit of a cheap filmmaking tactic but I think it'd be effective in this last chapter.
Well, he made a choice in the Throne room. No prisoners, the past must die, kill it if you have to. That includes his mom.
Yes, this. I like the bitter Luke angle and understand he needed to have no hope for Ben in order to reach that point, but it's bizarre when Kylo is shown to be the most conflicted dark jedi we've seen in any of the movies
CinimaScore are sample biased exit polls.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ten-reasons-why-you-should-ignore-exit/
I mean if we're throwing things around with little context we can just post 'biggest week to week drop off in franchise history'
The Phantom Menace crossed 1B in 1999. Fate of the Furious did 1.2B this year.
There's no point in talking to a fanatic, is there?
The poster in question said that if it's a good movie, it will float. Which is why I brought up the 1B.
And it's projected to make a lot more than 1B
There's also the fact that Xmas weekend was it's second week and that it's still doing well in theaters
The time skip will be used to establish Poe as the new leader, a rapport with Rey and Poe since they've been on screen for 6 seconds together, and hopefully showcase advancement within the resistence. I think our main three will be developed more as a unit since we haven't gotten them together yet
The Last Jedi is so much better than The Force Awakens- which felt like a Star Wars themed amusement ride, fun, but hollow.
Finally, a Star Wars that is daring and challenges its own status-Quo.
Luke goes out like a BAWSE in the most audacious display of Jedi mastery yet - anyone that has a problem with that needs a checkup.
Took my teenage sisters who are not into Star Wars at all and they loved it. The younger one is now going to root through the old stuff.
I'll address the Finn/Rey/Rose thing later - with the thought that it might also involve Poe and Ren somehow.
Finally, a Star Wars that is daring and challenges its own status-Quo.
Luke goes out like a BAWSE in the most audacious display of Jedi mastery yet - anyone that has a problem with that needs a checkup.
Took my teenage sisters who are not into Star Wars at all and they loved it. The younger one is now going to root through the old stuff.
I'll address the Finn/Rey/Rose thing later - with the thought that it might also involve Poe and Ren somehow.
I think my expectations were subverted with how unfunny that joke was.
Nah I kid the bit was alright.
I don't know you seem pretty hung up on Luke and insist on using the word loser alot. Seems like salt.
That would be ideal. Something to show that Finn has come a long way from being a guy who runs away from all his problems to a guy who is a little more selfless. Rey as someone who is starting to come into her own as a person who uses the force. Then Poe as a guy slowly adjusting to now being most likely the Leader of the resistance.
Even if you gave it a 'regular' Sunday (like the % sunday performance of RO or TFA) it would still have been the biggest drop in franchise history. It also had a record friday to friday drop. Personally I think it will do `1.5 ish maybe a bit more, but it's the effect on the IX that will be more interesting.
These are exit polls that the entire industry takes to the bank when assessing audience reaction. And it's been doing it for decades.
It's really sad that rapport between two main characters might be established during a time skip :(
You can tell us two characters became best friends in an opening crawl, but it's much more satisfying to watch them earn that status on screen, as Finn had with both Rey and Poe
Of course they do, doesn't change the fact that exist polls are historically shaky. If you've ever been in poli... era, people will tell you the same thing.
Hmm
200M turned into 1.3-1.5B
Sounds like it did really poorly in the box office. Would be only the 6th or 7th biggest worldwide gross of all time
As entertaining as I usually find these guys, I haven't agreed with them outside of the inital Plinkett prequel reviews in a long time. The last thing they did that actually hit the mark - critically - was the ghostbusters essay.
They honestly seem to be trying to create those classic "poetry" style memeable observations and it just comes across as grasping in regards to this film. Their half in the bag of TLJ played like they only half watched it and were already looking to tear the film apart before they'd seen it. Similarly with their Rogue One review. Both films seem to almost directly answers to their issues with the prequels and yet they have developed this attitude and angle that just because the films are being made, that is a bad thing.
Which should have been settled in TFA when he killed Han. He should've been fully committed to the dark side. They reversed a whole movies worth of development.
I'm not sure if I'm saying something I agree with, but my feeling is that TLJ for some is "let go of the past and move on" and for other is "nothing matters don't believe in anything". And this will divide people, obviously. In the end, it's possible that TLJ has a great message, but not one that fits the SW universe. Maybe.
Do you think they use them so they can get biased results or something ?
You were suggesting it's not performing well in the box office. You don't get to just cherry pick a couple days of poor numbers.
So, was your original point that "TLJ had a poor few days in the BO one weekend"? If so, yeah, you're right.
But if we're talking about TLJ performing in the box office, it's actually doing quite well.
Pretty much. If you project yourself using the Force, the effort will kill you.
No, I said 'if we're just going to throw things out there with little context' which you were doing. That's why I didn't actually link anything. It was to make a point.
Of course not, they use them in lieu of something better because it's what they have.
yes, when kylo and rey first connect, kylo ask if she is doing the projection, and then he states that she is not, because the effort would kill her
You mean the part where he lost to Rey right after and half the interest was crying Mary Sue/Plot hole.
They give a pretty good context in this film as to why that is the case, and keep in mind this film happens right after TFA. There is no time skip.
No, you're not reading the conversation you jumped into. The conversation was
A. There's a "sizable" mount of people who don't like TLJ
B. If the movie is good, it will "float"
A. And I responded to both of those points. CinemaScore is an A, which the industry seems to take pretty seriously as a consensus. There is no evidence whatsoever that there is a "sizable" mount of people who dislike the film, as online "review scores" for fans are often fucked up by trolls and bots.
B. The movie is well past floating and is about to cross 1B in about 18 days, off of a 200M budget
I'm sticking to the original conversation and you're saying I'm throwing things around out of context for some reason, midway into a conversation.
TFA tells us it didn't work.
Rewatch the scene, Kylo just watches his father die and he stands there. Adam Driver's performance tells us that killing Han didn't give him what he wanted. They didn't reverse anything, TLJ is a continuation of Kylo's inability to fully go into the Darkside.
I think Rey and Poe will be very friendly as we meet them on screen instead of developing a friendship like we got with Finn and Rey or Poe as you said.
I dunno why, but I have this image in my head of the movie starting with them on a mission, like I have the opening sequence of Ultron in my head for some reason, but instead with the Resistence versus FO
We'll see how our core three developed in that time hopefully
I know what they were going for with "let go of the past and move on", but I saw the execution as "let go of the past because we don't want to deal with it". It came of as lazy to me, especially when the movie's sole heroic accomplishment is orchestrated entirely by one of the legacy characters we are supposed to move on from and the majority of the new characters are separated and given busy work to do. The movie smacks you across the face with all of these themes and morals when a more satisfying way to tell us to let go of the past would've been to show the new characters overcoming some difficult obstacles that the old one's couldn't. Let them actually find a new way to do things, and put it on film, so that we can believe we should let go of the past, rather than being told to let go of past. People don't like being told what to do (as Poe has shown us!) and that may explain a lot of the backlash the film is getting
"let go of the past and move on" is also a strange stand to take at this point in the Star Wars business. People were universally disappointed by the prequels (as much as we can't agree in this thread, look at everyone's ranking lists!). They were eager to see a triumphant return to Star Wars, as proven by the success of TFA, which, while a retread, was considered overall enjoyable. People didn't want a retread of Empire in TLJ, but they also weren't ready to be told to let go of the past when TFA had just primed them for what they loved. This would've been a great motif for the start of a new trilogy (either in TFA from the get go, or an episode X after a new trilogy has washed the prequel taste from our mouths). In the middle of an existing trilogy, it's bizarre. It's basically suggesting one movie builds things up, the next tears everything down, and the final has to build it all up again
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I've made it clear that I was taking issue with you referencing cinema score. Way earlier. Here's another way that CinemaScore can be inaccurate
Smurfs 2 13% RT CinemaScore: -A
https://www.cinemascore.com/
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_smurfs_2
Yeah, CinemaScore is fan based, not critic based like RT. Those are two different things. I don't believe we were discussing critic scores?
What's your point
I agree, something like that makes sense. Maybe Poe is on a misson to secure some allies or something and Finn has proven himself to be a good soldier with some of his Stormtrooper training while Rey has a new (maybe Staff-like) lightsaber. It may sound weird but I think I think one of the few things RotJ did was exactly that where we see Luke more confident and sure of himself.
That wasn't a Medium ship, that was the Resistance Flagship. Something that's expensive to build and not in endless supply for the Resistance. It also didn't destroy the ship since it seemed to be functioning after it happened.
Aside from it being a visually cool sequence was anyone else bothered by how overpowered the light-speed suicide jump was? Something like that would completely change the way space battles are fought if launching one medium-size ship can completely decimate an entire fleet of star destroyers.
Exactly, Kylo is woefully conflicted, the most conflicted we've ever seen a dark jedi. Why couldn't Luke tell? It's not really a plot hole, nothing to nitpick. We are told Luke saw no hope, that's canon
But perhaps you can understand why some fans aren't happy with the way things went. When the audience can see that Kylo is conflicted, but the guy who turned Vader and can feel disturbances in the force can't, some audience members may start wondering what's going on. Leia can use the force to survive the bridge explosion, but can't feel that her son just spared her life? It's just hard for some people to accept that the main characters have given up on him, especially when the narrative shows us there's reason not to give up
I already mentioned the problem, but just sampling 300-500 already seeing it viewers who on top of that agree to respond and only around release just isn't a definitive statements. I've given you a link talking about why sample biased exit polls traditionally have issues and now I gave you an example of another way in which the 'fan' score can not be reflective of critical or public reception.
I don't think there's much more either of us can say on this topic.