Star Wars: The Last Jedi |OT3| The War is Just Beginning (Unmarked Spoilers)

[Surfinn]

Can I just say how great the battle scenes are written and directed in this movie?

There are so many layers to the opening sequence of the film. Multiple people in charge shouting out orders and directions, lots of communication.. different sequences of the battle, objectives, small and large, for both the FO and resistance.

It feels like there's an actual war. It's not just OK everybody, let's go blow up the big gun!

TFA was severely lacking in this department.

ANH had a ton of this shit, and all they had to do was hit a target.

 

[Contramann]

Luke Skywalker can project himself half way across the galaxy and manifest physical dice that last even after his physical being evaporated. "Dead" Yoda brought down lightening and burned up a temple. You think being "dead" is going to stop this new loser Luke from thinking about killing someone in their sleep? Not in this new Star Wars.

I think it would be awesome. Luke kills Kylo, Hux and the whole FO in their sleep Freedy style. It would show him flawed and regressing as a character even more than TLJ. And that would be great because it would make his legend even grander at the end.

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I see. So we're goalposting now while being salty. Sure sure.

In any case, Luke's arc is done, he may show up as an occassional advice giver but his story is over. Time to move on.

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

they were a bunch of vain assholes that believed only them were the rightful owners of the force and that their only great acomplishment was the creation of the empire and the rise of darth sidious.

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He said the Jedi allowed Darth Sidious to rise and take over, along with the empire and Vader.. that basically they failed due to their hubris

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But Hubris is of human nature, after all and empires rise and fall either way? Now, if Luke is uhappy with the Jedi's core teachings he could certainly shed off his 'Jedi' way and become a non-jedi force user (which should be a thing since the force belongs to everyone, right?) He could still train Rey and help the rebellion, just not as a Jedi. Or are force users still equivalent with Jedi after all? That shouldn't be the case as the dark side and sith exist, too, and again, Luke specifically menitons how the force doesn't belong to just the Jedi. If 'good' force user and Jedi cannot be separated after all, then he could just change the teaching. Which, I guess he realizes later on anyway, which just makes his 30 years grudge over all this seem really dumb. edit: Well, that grudge wasn't nearly that long. Still a couple years.

Fair enough, he does give a reason as to why. It's more that little of it makes sense to me.

 

[HaNotsri]

I can't put into words how much I loved that the First Order hates the Millennium Falcon.

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Best moment post original trilogy for me. Especially since I think it is realistic.

 

[Gustaf]

Uhhhhhhhhh when did he say that?

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when kylo and rey first connect, kylo ask if rey is doing the projection, and then states that no she is not, that the effort would kill her

 

[Liquidsnake]

I see. So we're goalposting now while being salty. Sure sure.

In any case, Luke's arc is done, he may show up as an occassional advice giver but his story is over. Time to move on.

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I don't ever want to move on from that. And I don't like the way they handled it.

 

[Contramann]

I don't ever want to move on from that. And I don't like the way they handled it.

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Well...tough? I don't know what to tell anyone who thinks this besides write fanfiction or read the old Legacy EU.

 

[Alice]

I see. So we're goalposting now while being salty. Sure sure.

In any case, Luke's arc is done, he may show up as an occassional advice giver but his story is over. Time to move on.

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Luke killing people in their sleep must be some new fetish. I wonder if there's already a subreddit for it.

 

[John Harker]

But Hubris is of human nature, after all and empires rise and fall either way? Now, if Luke is uhappy with the Jedi's core teachings he could certainly shed off his 'Jedi' way and become a non-jedi force user (which should be a thing since the force belongs to everyone, right?) He could still train Rey and help the rebellion, just not as a Jedi. Or are force users still equivalent with Jedi after all? That shouldn't be the case as the dark side and sith exist, too, and again, Luke specifically menitons how the force doesn't belong to just the Jedi. If 'good' force user and Jedi cannot be separated after all, then he could just change the teaching. Which, I guess he realizes later on anyway, which just makes his 30 years grudge over all this seem really dumb.

Fair enough, he does give a reason as to why. It's more that little of it makes sense to me.

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But he literally does all of that in this movie...

 

[FeD]

Can I just say how great the battle scenes are written and directed in this movie?

There are so many layers to the opening sequence of the film. Multiple people in charge shouting out orders and directions, lots of communication.. different sequences of the battle, objectives, small and large, for both the FO and resistance.

It feels like there's an actual war. It's not just OK everybody, let's go blow up the big gun!

TFA was severely lacking in this department.

ANH had a ton of this shit, and all they had to do was hit a target.

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On one hand I agree but on the other hand it did a really poor job on setting up the pieces and the role they have, something RO did really well.

For example Johnson shows you the soldiers getting ready to defend the gate but you never see their fate, in ESB you're rooting for them but here they're completely forgotten after the 'salt' quip.

The bombers in the opening are appearing from nowhere, it would have been great if Poe would've formulated his plan with the squadron leaders when he saw the opportunity of taking down the dreadnaught.

Yes there is a lot of banter but most of it is empty and doesn't serve to viewer anything but setting the tone. When you compare that to Rogue One's third act where every piece of dialogue during the battle sequence places units somewhere and makes the goal of the particular fighters clear to the viewer.

 

[Jest]

But Hubris is of human nature, after all and empires rise and fall either way? Now, if Luke is uhappy with the Jedi's core teachings he could certainly shed off his 'Jedi' way and become a non-jedi force user (which should be a thing since the force belongs to everyone, right?) He could still train Rey and help the rebellion, just not as a Jedi. Or are force users still equivalent with Jedi after all? That shouldn't be the case as the dark side and sith exist, too, and again, Luke specifically menitons how the force doesn't belong to just the Jedi. If 'good' force user and Jedi cannot be separated after all, then he could just change the teaching. Which, I guess he realizes later on anyway, which just makes his 30 years grudge over all this seem really dumb.

Fair enough, he does give a reason as to why. It's more that little of it makes sense to me.

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He does recognize that you can still be a good or bad Force user without following the ways of Jedism or Sith. The reason he doesn't teach is because he failed at being a teacher and it was such a spectacular failure that he doesn't want to have anything to do with teaching anymore.

His teaching failure came first, his recognition of the failure of Jedism after that.

 

[Gustaf]

On one hand I agree but on the other hand it did a really poor job on setting up the pieces and the role they have, something RO did really well.

For example Johnson shows you the soldiers getting ready to defend the gate but you never see their fate, in ESB you're rooting for them but here they're completely forgotten after the 'salt' quip.

The bombers in the opening are appearing from nowhere, it would have been great if Poe would've formulated his plan with the squadron leaders when he saw the opportunity of taking down the dreadnaught.

Yes there is a lot of banter but most of it is empty and doesn't serve to viewer anything but setting the tone. When you compare that to Rogue One's third act where every piece of dialogue during the battle sequence places units somewhere and makes the goal of the particular fighters clear to the viewer.

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dont know what you are talking about, both things you said are adressed in the movie o.O

we have scenes of those fighters on crait suffering heavy loses

and we know the bombers plan was already there, is not something poe came out on the instant

 

[Alice]

On one hand I agree but on the other hand it did a really poor job on setting up the pieces and the role they have, something RO did really well.

For example Johnson shows you the soldiers getting ready to defend the gate but you never see their fate, in ESB you're rooting for them but here they're completely forgotten after the 'salt' quip.

The bombers in the opening are appearing from nowhere, it would have been great if Poe would've formulated his plan with the squadron leaders when he saw the opportunity of taking down the dreadnaught.

Yes there is a lot of banter but most of it is empty and doesn't serve to viewer anything but setting the tone. When you compare that to Rogue One's third act where every piece of dialogue during the battle sequence places units somewhere and makes the goal of the particular fighters clear to the viewer.

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1. Yes you see their fate. They retreat inside with Poe. It's not even a short scene.

2. We were supposed to be as blindsided as the FO was. They hid somewhere.

3. That's something Star Wars has always done. People don't always say things to have an intricate meaning other than making a quick joke in a moment of tension.

 

[Seeya]

I mean, if you want to call a well established precedent for a scene in the film 'feature creep bullshit' then ok, I guess.

Im not sure what the argument is. It can't be both 'that doesn't fit the lore' AND 'pffft the Lore is bullshit'

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When having a fact based discussion in good faith, like comparing Luke's skills and in cannon experience at a certain point with Rey's, my opinion doesn't matter.

I don't even think this automatically makes her a Mary Sue. Still, if you're going to do these comparisons, do them with the full context.

Piloting Stuff
Luke
"I used to Bulleye Womrats in my T-16 back home"

Death Star I
We see Luke take out a turret emplacement by over committing on an attack run, but aside from that he does not stand out from his peers. No scoping the Deathstar is him using the force and IS impressive, though he had nothing getting in his way and reached out with the force to nail the shot.

Rey has some piloting experience



Jakku Tie Fighter Chase
Within the space of three minutes Rey goes from being wobbly with an over-sized awkward outdated junker and no co-pilot to assist her (something even Han relies on) to

1. Pulling off multiple high powered turns on a dime by stuttering the engines mid flight
2. Full on Tokyo Drift
3. Doing her own Death Star II interior trench run with no co-pilot or experience flying the ship
4. Is able to judge everything perfectly to do the following
   Slingshot the Falcon into the air, cut the engines, time out the decent, rotation, and trajectory of the Falcon with the trajectory and speed of the Tie Fighter behind her to then perfectly line up the jammed quad laser with the path of the Tie Fighter so that Finn can hit the fire button and blow it out of the sky. She is able to re-engage the engines, pull out of a spiral, stabilize the ship, and resume a clean flight pattern And then before they hit the uneven terrain and die

I mean, she couldn't of made the shot without Finn to press the button, but she literally no
scoped a tie fighter in an intentional free fall with a weapon that she didn't even have in front of her and couldn't even see.

Rey > Luke




Light saber Stuff

Luke

A NEW HOPE
Luke receives minor training and instruction from Obi Wan.

THE THREE YEAR GAP
Luke spends 3 years self teaching as well as working with the rebels. This includes formal combat training, some light saber training and experience, and at least some interaction with a Jedi Holocron.


THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
Luke spent anywhere from 1 to 6 months being training by a Jedi Master <- Link
Pablo Hidalgo: Luke trained on Dagobah for much longer than what ESB shows <- Link
(Also confirms that Degobah has a unique flow of time due to dark side energy [planets that are rich in the force can have this sort of quirk])

Luke gets toyed with, loses his hand, and would have died if not for being rescued.

Rey

The Force Awakens
Rey has no training with the force
Rey has never used a Light saber until she picks it up to fight Kylo
Rey has informal experience (self taught?) with a completely different type of melee weapon

Rey is outmatched by an injured but skilled and experienced Kylo.
She collects herself for a brief moment and then kicks his ass.



Kylo received informal force training in the force from his mother (pretty sure?)
Kylo was trained under Luke SkyWalker for an unknown amount of time
Kylo was further trained under Snoke, but not completely
Kylo has substancial military experience with TFO

Could you have seen Luke winning under similar circumstances? Having literally had no training or held a Light Saber before? I can't.

Rey > Luke



The Last Jedi
Rey
Fought with a light-saber once
Very Minor training from Luke Skywalker (did not appear very light saber oriented)
Seemingly achieved substantial improvement with a Light-Saber after a single fight?
Kylo
No evidence that Kylo had any further training from Snoke

Heck, in TFA she manages to push Kylo out of her head with zero formal training. She over powers him in a display of raw strength and that scene started with her not even having a clue what was going on!

Then she does it again in TLJ!

I dunno, I think Rey wins the special star child award in this case

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If you are asking me for my opinion on the force edging closer and closer to a catch all do anything, that's a different conversation. I can think that the power is silly or not like the precent of 'mainstreaming' the force as a do anything, while still agreeing that it's cannon.

 

[aliengmr]

Whats the general consensus on Leya floating back to life? As someone who liked the last Jedi thats what bothered me the most. Well .. that and the casino planet bit.

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I can see where it looks a bit silly, but at the same time its an acknowledgment of her power with the force. It's strange though that even though the old EU got axed, it seems to be referenced more than I thought it ever would.

This is how the force would manifest with Leia, post ROTJ. As a survival mechanism or to augment her duties as a leader. Other writers took her abilities further, but in general that's how it was. If Rian had shown her doing anything a your basic Jedi would do, It wouldn't have rung true. So while it seemed a bit odd, personally, it felt true to Leia.

 

[Everybody Lies]

The twist was that it wasnt a trilogy, just a 2 movie set. No nore star wars movies. Surprise!

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Now that would make sense.

Who said so?

And this movie left us with Kylo being the leader, Rey being the last Jedi and the Resistance having the galaxy on their side again. We got some meaty hooks for IX, why exactly do they have to be mysteries?

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Largely every trilogy to come before this has said so. Compelling questions are what get people to pick up the third book or watch the third movie. Otherwise, why bother? They don't have to be mysteries. Luke had his hand cut off and it was revealed that Vader was his father at the end of ESB. That did not leave us with a mystery, but it sure left us with compelling questions about their relationship going forward. They don't have to be mysteries, they just have to be compelling questions. There are few here that must be answered for me.

not necessarily. The Two Towers I thought did something similar and it worked in their favor.

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But that still left us with the overarching question of would Frodo make it to Mount Doom and destroy the one ring in its fires. We don't have an equivalent to that here.

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

Can I just say how great the battle scenes are written and directed in this movie?

There are so many layers to the opening sequence of the film. Multiple people in charge shouting out orders and directions, lots of communication.. different sequences of the battle, objectives, small and large, for both the FO and resistance.

It feels like there's an actual war. It's not just OK everybody, let's go blow up the big gun!

TFA was severely lacking in this department.

ANH had a ton of this shit, and all they had to do was hit a target.

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I loved how visceral the space combat felt. It had real stakes and it didn't need a Death Star to make it feel intense this time.

 

[Paradox House]

Fuck, we didn't even get to hear what's so bad about the Jedis for Luke being so upset and wanting them all to end. I mean, I guess he didn't really have any arguments for that either, as he apparently changed his mind towards the end. But sure was fun hearing that Jedi aren't cool for, uh, 'reasons'. If he became an island hermit and wants the Jedi to end, that's cool if you can actually justify why. Some superficial "The force belongs to everyone and not just the Jedi!" just doesn't cut it. Did the Jedi claim otherwise and hunted others for it? I mean, what exactly is it that was so wrong, can't you just tell us and maybe Rey so she can measure your arguments? Also, it's frustrating how immensely TFA and TLJ focus on the Light/Dark side without making any of it more interesting. Ohhh, Snoke somehow manipulated both Kylo and Rey from far away to turn them to the dark side and shit. How very compelling. So much wishywashy plot and storytelling.

I couldn't be less excited for #9.

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This is my biggest issue honestly. Everyone declaring 'Star Wars has changed forever!'. It literally ends with:
- Vaders grandson in charge of the new empire
- Rebels are BACK. Emblem and everything. Also everyone is on the Millennium Falcon due to its God Mode I guess.
- Luke declares the Jedi are BACK. Tune in for Return of the Jedi & Sith next week and ignore the last 2.5 hours

The series so far is trying to get back to A New Hope/Empire Strikes Back. It is just going to become a repetitive Rebel VS Empire, and I think this is a main reason why the Prequels are not being heralded by any means but eyed with some more appreciation than previously.

The twist was that it wasnt a trilogy, just a 2 movie set. No nore star wars movies. Surprise!

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More like the twist is it wasn't a trilogy but a longer series of films. I can't see the next tying anything up as its nothing to work with.​

 

[Mockerre]

Gift that keeps on giving ;)

 

[janusff]

Now that would make sense.



Largely every trilogy to come before this has said so. Compelling questions are what get people to pick up the third book or watch the third movie. Otherwise, why bother? They don't have to be mysteries. Luke had his hand cut off and it was revealed that Vader was his father at the end of ESB. That did not leave us with a mystery, but it sure left us with compelling questions about their relationship going forward. They don't have to be mysteries, they just have to be compelling questions. There are few here that must be answered for me.




But that still left us with the overarching question of would Frodo make it to Mount Doom and destroy the one ring in its fires. We don't have an equivalent to that here.

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Destroying The First Order and Kylo Ren?
Edit: ah nevermind read that wrong. I get what you're saying.

 

[Contramann]

Luke killing people in their sleep must be some new fetish. I wonder if there's already a subreddit for it.

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It's probably someone's fanfiction. Luke comes in and uses the Force on them while they pretend to be asleep.

 

[DoItForJohnny5Alive]

I just got an email from a life long friend who said he will never give Disney another dime ever. I reminded him that they own Fox, Disney, Pixar, Star Wars, and Marvel and he has a son who will want to see movies made by these companies and he said he'd let him see it and slip into a different movie playing at the same time. This is how ridiculous my generation has been regarding TLJ. I loved it. I think it's soundly above the prequels and Jedi and way above Rogue One. I just don't get it. The hyperbolic reactions in this country nowadays is getting out of hand. "That's not the Luke I grew up with!" is the dumbest reason to write off everything that Disney will ever have control over for the rest of your life. I'm legit embarrassed for people that act this way. It's as dumb to me as Bernie supporters voting for Trump because their guy lost (had it stolen from him?).

Anyway, I've yet to see it a 2nd time but will do so this week. I can't wait to see what Episode 9 has in store for us. TJL seems like a movie that will only get better. There is a lot to digest. Lots of nuance. At least that was my take after seeing it the first time.

 

[Dekuman]

Seen the movie 6 times now (movie pass + vacation time from work yayyyy) and I still get choked up at all the same times

- Paige hitting the button and sacrificing herself
- Finn "Where's Rey?" *Cut to island*
- Yoda "We are what they grow beyond..."
- The Holdo maneuver silence
- Luke kissing Leia's forehead
- Luke fading and his clothes blowing with the wind

I love this movie, and can't wait for the next one. It's sad the old guard is all gone (though Luke is totally coming back as a force ghost) but exciting that all the main players will seemingly be at full power going into the next one. Will there be a time jump to a more powerful rebellion? What will an unchecked Kylo Ren and first order look like? Will there be more force users? Will Rey be teaching them? There are so many possibilities!

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The OT callbacks are god tier and not pointless. Yoda scene and Luke the binary sunset still makes me tear up.

 

[Einchy]

Largely every trilogy to come before this has said so. Compelling questions are what get people to pick up the third book or watch the third movie. Otherwise, why bother? They don't have to be mysteries. Luke had his hand cut off and it was revealed that Vader was his father at the end of ESB. That did not leave us with a mystery, but it sure left us with compelling questions about their relationship going forward. They don't have to be mysteries, they just have to be compelling questions. There are few here that must be answered for me.

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I wanna know what it looks like when the galaxy's hope is reginited by Luke.
I wanna see what happens now that Kylo is Supreme Leader.
We're told Knights of Ren were ex-Luke students, I wanna see how that plays out.
Rey is the Last Jedi, she carries the Jedi's future on her back.
Finn and Rey are back together, I wanna see more of that.

There's a lot of reasons why I'm bothering seeing IX.

 

[Surfinn]

Gift that keeps on giving ;)

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These guys are insufferable

 

[Deleted member 11039]

I see. So we're goalposting now while being salty. Sure sure.

In any case, Luke's arc is done, he may show up as an occassional advice giver but his story is over. Time to move on.

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Goalposting? Salty? i have no idea what you're going on about.

I was being silly and mentioned that bit about Luke murdering people in their sleep in response to someone commenting about how Rian Johnson is happy with where Luke is moving forward and the possibilities it allows. The very same guy who thought it would be a good idea to make Luke Skywalker a loser who considers murdering his nephew in his sleep. That bit is so dumb I have zero confidence in what ideas this guy has going forward in regards to SW or JJ for that matter.

 

[Hikari]

I wanna know what it looks like when the galaxy's hope is reginited by Luke.

Rey is the Last Jedi, she carries the Jedi's future on her back.
Finn and Rey are back together, I wanna see more of that.

There's a lot of reasons why I'm bothering seeing IX.

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1) Blocked by Rose
2) Force boy might also be a future jedi.

 

[FeD]

1. Yes you see their fate. They retreat inside with Poe. It's not even a short scene.

2. We were supposed to be as blindsided as the FO was. They hid somewhere.

3. That's something Star Wars has always done. People don't always say things to have an intricate meaning other than making a quick joke in a moment of tension.

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My bad with the first point, what I meant to point out is that we don't really get to see their battle, it's like you have the battle of Hoth with solely the camera on the speeders. It just felt very rushed to me, and did very little for me that made me care about the resistance beyond the major characters.

Good point I can see that, I'll give you that one.

On the third point I meant that most of the dialogue here during the battles is just setting the tone but very little places pieces on the board. Another example is during Hoth where you as the viewer know exactly what the plan is, get the shield open for a small second and hit the empire with the Ion cannon so the transports can escape, so when you hear 'the first transport is away' and you see the soldiers cheering you are right there with them. Same goes for the Empire coming out of hyperspace to close and thus ruining the surprise attack which in turn contextualizes why the AT-AT's have to come from so far away.

In TLJ why exactly can't the cannon just be airdropped closer to the gate? Or why is the beam not strong enough from a further away position? Now sure that can be seen as nitpicks but Star Wars films always had a knack for telling these small details to the audience and make sense of the situation.

 

[DIE BART DIE]

I actually agree with trying to get the cast together more. One big criticism I have of TLJ is that.. well, we're now 2/3rds done with the trilogy, and the main characters haven't even all interacted together yet. Definitely think a lot could have been accomplished by at least having Poe and Finn together for more of the film, as they have great chemistry together. I wish they found a way to get all three together for at least a few minutes of interaction, personally. I wanna see them all on screen at once. I really hope this happens in EP9.
.

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It'd be nice to see IX open with a lighthearted ensemble "caper" mission like RotJ or Star Trek Into Darkness (stay with me!) Would quickly establish an on-screen cameradie between our main heroes, especially if there has been a time jump.

Similar to how ESB is set some time after ANH and you quickly realise that Luke and Han are now good friends and there has been some off-screen friction between Leia and Han in the interim.

 

[Mockerre]

These guys are insufferable

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Amazing, every word... no, no, I can't, sorry ;)

 

[Sanjuro]

These guys are insufferable

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I see Master Bobby has taught you well.

 

[Carn]

Projection Luke was great writing and a proper way to script a twist.

Throughout the film, Luke bristles at his legendary reputation. At one point, he rhetorically asks Rey whether she truly expected him to waltz in and singlehandedly take down the entire First Order with a laser sword.

In the end, of course, he both does and does not do that. The Force projection scene was both a subversion of the hero worship he resents and a clever solution to his inability to do what he previously proposed in jest. All while delivering a surprising plot twist appropriately telegraphed by subtle visual cues (i.e. leaving no red prints in the salt) and a long-overdue affirmation of Luke's prowess with the Force.

The movie has flaws, but I find little fault with how Luke's storyline is concluded.

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Well put. I also think they handled Luke well, and as I already posted in the previous topic, it totally fits with his previous 'failures'. He never was a 'chosen one', he played a big role in important events but most of those involved him losing or making the wrong decision.

 

[Surfinn]

It'd be nice to see IX open with a lighthearted ensemble "caper" mission like RotJ or Star Trek Into Darkness (stay with me!) Would quickly establish an on-screen cameradie between our main heroes, especially if there has been a time jump.

Similar to how ESB is set some time after ANH and you quickly realise that Luke and Han are now good friends and there has been some off-screen friction between Leia and Han in the interim.

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Shit I keep forgetting there's gunna be a time jump.

Which is weird to think about, considering we haven't seen them all interact with each other yet. We might get a few years of them all having known each other.

Amazing, every word... no, no, I can't, sorry ;)

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This doesn't surprise me at all

I see Master Bobby has taught you well.

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Believe it or not this is an opinion I came up with independently

 

[Seeya]

Gift that keeps on giving ;)

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What a bunch of hack frauds.

 

[Deleted member 22490]

I see. So we're goalposting now while being salty. Sure sure.

In any case, Luke's arc is done, he may show up as an occassional advice giver but his story is over. Time to move on.

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I don't see how was moving the goalposts

 

[HaNotsri]

I liked the movie better than no. 7.

I think one of the challenges with writing a new story based on the events in 4-6 is that the story was very finished.
The movie doesn't do the legacy of Luke Skywalker justice in my opinion, but it's not that easy to come up with a plausible reason for Ben to become Vader 2.0. Han Solo repetedly beating and raping Leia could have been an option but I suspect people would have been more upset with that...

I think the have done an ok job bridging the old characters into the new movies and then dropping them one after one.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

This is my biggest issue honestly. Everyone declaring 'Star Wars has changed forever!'. It literally ends with:
- Vaders grandson in charge of the new empire
- Rebels are BACK. Emblem and everything. Also everyone is on the Millennium Falcon due to its God Mode I guess.
- Luke declares the Jedi are BACK. Tune in for Return of the Jedi & Sith next week and ignore the last 2.5 hours

The series so far is trying to get back to A New Hope/Empire Strikes Back. It is just going to become a repetitive Rebel VS Empire, and I think this is a main reason why the Prequels are not being heralded by any means but eyed with some more appreciation than previously.

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Agree here, well except about the PT. I just hope there are more creative minds constructing the finale that doesn't rely on another "All eggs in one basket super weapon" to end the FO. We've come into a second reset of the galaxy and have another ~2 hours to satisfyingly resolve it.

 

[Mockerre]

What a bunch of hack frauds.

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Hey! That's not Rian Johnson!

 

[Sanjuro]

Believe it or not this is an opinion I came up with independently

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I don't know on that one.

Beyond that, out of the upper echelon on "online media", they seem the least offensive out of the pack lately.

 

[The_hypocrite]

Notmahluke is hilarious to me for a character that has not been seen for 30 years.

There's a reason why Lucasfilms did away with the canon for something more manageable.

 

[AquaRegia]

Considering he's a bit of a whiny brat, I wonder if IX will have a power struggle within the First Order. It would make sense to me, but who knows if they'll give up on the classic good rebellion vs. evil empire setup. Maybe just a Star Destroyer switching sides because Kylo is acting like a moron again.

 

[Surfinn]

I don't know on that one.

Beyond that, out of the upper echelon on "online media", they seem the least offensive out of the pack lately.

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It's funny to me cause they seem to attract a lot of people who think they're expert critics, but are in fact terrible at film analysis. People who have little to no intention of arguing in good faith

Funny in concept but annoying in reality

 

[Carn]

Are you sure you're just not upset that Star Wars in more Fantasy than Science and this scene unfortunately reminded you of that?

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This! I don get why people are so upset about it. Star Wars has always been campy fantasy in space. Every movie and book has stuff in it that doesnt make sense in a bigger context. It doesn't even attempt to be grounded in reality.
But anyway, isnt there some lore that explains the existance of Interdictor cruisers with interdiction field tech that can make vessels drop out of hyperspace or keep them from entering? I believe its well established tech in the SW universe, but I'm not sure if its still canon.

 

[Deleted member 11039]

It'd be nice to see IX open with a lighthearted ensemble "caper" mission like RotJ or Star Trek Into Darkness (stay with me!) Would quickly establish an on-screen cameradie between our main heroes, especially if there has been a time jump.

Similar to how ESB is set some time after ANH and you quickly realise that Luke and Han are now good friends and there has been some off-screen friction between Leia and Han in the interim.

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That would be great. These characters are in some desperate need of a charisma boost. Kylo is still pretty compelling. But after TLJ I dont care a bit about Finn and Poe. They're so incompetent and dull. And Rey is starting to become uninteresting too. They just aren't adding any meat to her story. She's just easily breezing through the universe ho hum.

Although I guess that's what Johnson thought he was doing with Finn and Rose at the casino and that resulted in a really forced, unbelievable relationship and one of the real low points of the film so maybe careful what I wish for. :/

 

[LionPride]

I ain't realize so many people took Star Wars as Sci-Fi until this movie

 

[Tuorom]

Are y'all forgetting that the bridge exploded and Lei was engulfed by the explosion? She turns away, closes her eyes, and the explosion comes at her from behind. I think even the director forgot about that part, because the next time we see her, her clothes are fully intact with no damage. Come to think of it, that's even more ridiculous than the surviving space bit. How did she survive the initial bombardment of the bridge without a scratch on her?

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[Skyroar]

We have to take into consideration that there was another hook for episode IX which is no longer true, and it's not Rian Johnson's fault.

Leia.

We know that Kylo Ren will predictably lose by the end of IX (unless they go crazy on that), but we're left asking ourselves how would the relationship with his mother be, and how would that affect the outcome of the story and give closure to the Skywalker family. Rian clearly set something for the next installment the moment he made Ren unable to press the button and kill her.

But now that the actress has died, chances are, we won't get something very compelling out of it.

 

[BetterOffEd]

1). That Was the last of the rebel's fleet.

2) No one else came to their rescue.

3) The revels have a harder time gaining any ships than the FO.

4) She has to stay aboard so the FO would detect that life is still on board the ship. If there were just androids then they would think something is up so since no life on board.

5) If she did that the FO would have figured out that the Rebels would have fleed to the nearby planet anyway and attacked later.

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1)- which begs the question, why wasn't this done with the other ships as well?

2)- this is true, but not relevant to the questions asked

3)- We don't know this, and it makes little sense considering the rebels won at the end of ROTJ and formed a New Republic and the Empire was scattered to the Outer Rim. If anything, the Rebels should have better ships, however, I can understand why you think the rebels have trouble getting ships, as these new movies have really painted the FO as a powerhouse while providing no context to backup their position. I suppose your comment is canon accurate, which just means the canon is confusing

4) This makes no sense and seems to be a narrative people are pushing to wave away one of the many problems with this scene. In a universe where a ship can destroy another ship 30 times its size by going into hyperpace, every competent captain in every battle would fear for the safety of their crew whenever another ship is pointed at them. Whether or not there are life forms on board would be irrelevant, because there are clearly droids in the universe which are capable of hyperspace jumps (this is the purpose of astromech droids). Plus, given the destructive potential of this maneuver, it would be immediately weaponized, thus missiles would be equipped with hyperdrives rather than firing proton torpedoes. As far as I'm aware, the narrative that Holdo had to be on the ship to trick the FO is something invented by a fan in defense of the scene and is not supported by anything in the movie (do they scan the ship for life in the movie?). Hux doesn't even seem to think this maneuver was a possibility until it's about to happen. You'd think any craft with a hyperdrive would be considered a deadly missle if this was possible

A better response for TLJ apologists to the autopilot question would be "Why aren't all space battles performed by androids"? We see how much better BB8 is at wrecking up a scene in an AT-ST than any Imperial pilot has been, and that's just one example. It's an easy whataboutism to muddle the complaints people have about Holdo's sacrifice, but there is a legit response. Like weaponized hyperspace, drone piloted ships break the rules of the universe. In theory, a drone would be infinitely better at piloting than any humans for the same reasons that self driving cars are going to replace humans. Star Wars space battles are modeled after WW2 dogfights so human pilots can have human moments that the audience can enjoy. The technology is nerfed specifically to service the story (which is what makes this more space fantasy than sci-fi)

Bare in mind that if Holdo had simply rammed the Supremecy, few people would be bringing up auto pilot. It's the fact that the rules of the universe were broken that has precipitated a bunch of other nitpicks about the scene, i.e. the writers thought they were clever by subverting the rules, now the internet trolls will show they are clever by doing the same. It's a can of worms the script of TLJ has opened and will have to deal with

5)- which the FO figured out anyway, not sure what this has to do with the original question

 

[Ether_Snake]

This is my biggest issue honestly. Everyone declaring 'Star Wars has changed forever!'. It literally ends with:
- Vaders grandson in charge of the new empire
- Rebels are BACK. Emblem and everything. Also everyone is on the Millennium Falcon due to its God Mode I guess.
- Luke declares the Jedi are BACK. Tune in for Return of the Jedi & Sith next week and ignore the last 2.5 hours

The series so far is trying to get back to A New Hope/Empire Strikes Back. It is just going to become a repetitive Rebel VS Empire, and I think this is a main reason why the Prequels are not being heralded by any means but eyed with some more appreciation than previously.

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I think they thought there was nothing else they could do. They thought they had to play it safe, so they had to bring back everything people liked about the OT. I don't see how anyone can say things have really changed, other than they'll have more leeway to bring up a bunch of new dark and light side force users and anything in between. That's it.

They could have some external force coming in against which the galaxy must unite, but you'd think this would have been established in the first movie as remnants of the rebels and the empire stopped to fight each other to deal with that, but then it makes the universe weird because it's not "Star Wars" to have a unite galaxy against ID4 or whatever. So the big plot remains empire VS rebels forever.

 

[Sanjuro]

It's funny to me cause they seem to attract a lot of people who think they're expert critics, but are in fact terrible at film analysis. People who have little to no intention of arguing in good faith

Funny in concept but annoying in reality

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I agree in some regards. Right now there is nobody that has the title of expert critics, and RLM are far from the bottom of the barrel. I might put MovieBob ahead, but that is a local bias. Guy is still a Masshole.

Those people who they attract are coming from all angles right now. People that hate the The Last Jedi are coming from all outlets of life.