Should this be an argument in favour of Palpatine in TROS? Because I don't see it.
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Star Wars: Terrio on Kennedy’s involvement in RoS
- Thread starter Deleted member 59955
- Start date
Should this be an argument in favour of Palpatine in TROS? Because I don't see it.
At least he killed Snoke and tried to give the series a fresh start. He was basically trying to save you from TROS.
But you all choose TROS, you all choose the dark side. Enjoy it.
How does Kylo redeem himself if he's the primary antagonist? You need something for the character to turn against.
So basically "It's fine because things don't have to make any sense if they're cool looking"?
the craziest thing about all of these interviews where they pretend that this was their plan all along and that there were hidden meanings behind everything is like... that just makes the previous films retroactively worse lol
leave them alone!
leave them alone!
Yes. Pretty much. Its a movie. Sometimes its okay to just enjoy a movie because shit looks cool and is entertaining even if it doesn't make sense.
You really don't see any flaws with Palp, being able to build a thoausand mini death stars and meanwhile the First Order can barely get a new one in TFA?
I mean that's a whole lot of nonsense, even from SW or any kid movie standpoint.
The movie opens with him slaughtering a village looking for his wayfinder lol
The redemption was totally not earned, and it was resolved very quickly. Billions of people died due to the efforts of Kylo Ren...
In RoS, did Kylo
even show any remorse for the stuff he did or helped accomplish that weren't related to Han or Rey?
One of the worst ideas ever.
p.s.
This story ended with ROTJ as far as I'm concerned.
It undermines the ending of 6 to bring him back and I still can't believe this was the decision. This trilogy was just so uninspired and unoriginal. No one asked for a remake of 4-6...I truly hope that whatever movie comes next is allowed to be free and creative and move away from the poor decision making that overlooked 7-9.
edit: also I think it's unfair to those that haven't seen the movie to have a spoiler in the thread title. The trailer had his voice, but didn't explicitly show that he made a return.
I don't know if you knew it while writing it, but that's basically what the early leaks were about, and it's much better than what we ended up with.
I'm a broken record at this point, but redemption is the core theme of this saga.
People who don't think Kylo, a character who has been conflicted since he was introduced, wasn't getting redeemed is silly.
It's a pretty obvious half truth at best, and an outright lie at worst. There's very little of a clearly planned out ahead of time three film arc here.
If you take a step back the cracks in the story that it was all planned couldn't be more obvious; they seem to give both JJ and Rian fairly complete creative control of the first two films, this third one feels like a desperate attempt of executive oversight and JJ returning to what people liked about the first film in a desperate attempt to course correct something that clearly was never planned out that well to begin with.
You can have redemption at the end of his antognistic arc (E. G near the end of the movie through a series of reflections, both by himself and through the help of others). If your redemption relies on turning against a bigger, badder evil, it probably wasn't that convincing of a redemption to begin with.
But they were Darth Vader followers...or something, so is ok. The movie dosn't says it you say? Well, is a cool looking sequence, and kids movies dosn't need to make sense, apparently, so is ok.
That's because Palpatine remembered a time when travelling across the galaxy actually took time. He wasn't expecting them to actually show up that same day.
Someone needs to explain to me why the outer rim and core worlds are treated so differently, if you can get across the galaxy as fast as they did in RoS? Weren't the outer rim worlds treated like backwater places due to how far away and remote they were? But if Palpatine can say "raise the ships" one scene, and then the next scene the rebels are like "let's stop them from raising their ships all the way", and the rebels then successfully journey through the Unknown Regions and appear at Palpatine's hideout before said ships raise through the atmosphere; then there's no real point of the galaxy that you can't reach in a short time.
Don't worry, those were just (different) cultists so they totally deserved it actually.
According to who? Because ONE character (Anakin) was redeemed, it's suddenly a core theme of the entire series?
I don't remember them even being referenced at all. Just the scenese with him taking them all out. If they were Vader cultists wouldn't they be cool with Kylo and just give it to him?
You can even have the redemption arc starting slowly with the news of his mother's death. And make him first act even crazier, but then have him starting to accept and move towards honouring her legacy.
J.J. doesn't like distances. His universe is very small.
For real. Seems like Terrio is being forced to answer all the hard questions without JJ. Now Terrio is pinning it on Kathleen. Kind of funny to be honest.I have never seen this many people who worked on a film throw each other under the bus like this.
This is how Rian Johnson sleeps knowing he made by far the best and only worthwhile film in this cursed sequel trilogy.
Redemption for Vader is something the movie talks about but really it is only from Luke's perspective. That the conflict in Vader is in his love for his children.
There is no regret over his life. In ESB he offers Luke the chance to rule the galaxy as father and son. There is no dramatic flip in Vader's world view outside of the fact that he should not be subservient to the Emperor.
And Luke doesn't bring Vader's body back to Endor and ask people to hail Vader as a hero. He has a personal funeral for his father.
Bingo. Lots of great ways to do redemption for a character that acts erratically until the final act of a film, especially if the character will likely end up dying.
So I'm guessing Vader's redemption in ROTJ didn't work for you?
Self reflection is fine, but that's not redemption. That's just Kylo realizing the error of his ways.
Redemption means he needs to actually try and atone for his sins, which in the case of Star Wars means fighting the bad guy.
I'm mostly ok with the idea in theory, but appalled that the reason is because he has famous parents. That's like top 5 bad messages in the age of Trump.
J.J. wanted a cool scene with a lot of dead bodies. He likes it so much that he does it again several times during the movie.
"In the previous movie that Rian Johnson made... that was before I was even on board and Kathleen Kennedy decided... but really it was George's original vision for the series... that was before Carrie Fisher died and we had to work around that..."
honestly fuck this guy lmao
You don't have to do the exact same redemption though. Why do you want another ROTJ, I just don't get it? We have one. And it's much better than this one.
Once again, this is mythology. It's built on archetypes to tell a simple lesson. It's narrow because that's it's goal. What we are getting into now is what makes Star Wars, Star Wars, and more specifically "The Skywalker Saga". These are episodes 1-9 that are supposed to follow a line, otherwise what is the point? If you want to tell a different story that isn't The Skywalker Saga, then don't put it in The Skywalker Saga. It's like complaining that a slasher horror movie should've cut out all the death and been a love story between the 2 main characters.
I personally feel the TRoS could have explored a different kind of redemption for Ben Solo, make it more relevant to today's world and still been true to the core philosophy of the previous 6 episodes. Alternatively they could have chosen not to directly attached these stories to the previous 6 (ie not make these Episodes 7-9). Instead starting a new Saga and explore a very different philosophy. Plenty of other stories in the Star Wars universe are doing their own thing.
I have never seen this many people who worked on a film throw each other under the bus like this.
This is how Rian Johnson sleeps knowing he made by far the best and only worthwhile film in this cursed sequel trilogy.
Rian Johnson is the last Jedi
We'll let the audiences make their own conclusions about who to blame... but I'll tell you this one thing: it was Kathleen Kennedy's fault.
George Lucas, the creator of Star Wars.
When I asked Lucas what Star Wars was ultimately about, he said, "Redemption." He added, "The scripts to the three films that I'm finishing now are a lot darker than the second three, because they are about a fall from grace. The first movie is pretty innocent, but it goes downhill from there, because it's more of a tragic story—that's built into it."
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/c...ns-george-lucas-before-the-star-wars-prequels
And a lot more characters than Anakin have been redeemed in this saga.
Vader's redemption was fine for me until the prequels hit. After the prequels? Yea, I don't buy his redemption at all.
Atoning for your sins isn't exclusive to fighting a bigger, badder guy. There's plenty of ways to do that and while I'm not a script writer, I can think of some basic plot ideas, such as:
Part of Kylo's redemption is a sacrifice in order to stop something he set in motion, that uninterrupted would cost millions of lives.
It's basic. But it works if your purpose is to focus on the character without having to bring back a big bad evil.
I don't want Terrio near another beloved franchise for a long time (ideally ever actually) but RoS does stink of executive meddling too.
Producers run the show, they make the hires, write the brief, they shouldn't be dictating how the story goes. Ideally, for a multi part saga / series like this, they should be hiring people to write the fucking thing before they begin production. At least an outline. Iger and Kennedy shitcanning George Lucas' outline for the sequels seems absolutely ludicrous when you consider how they approached these films now.
Producers run the show, they make the hires, write the brief, they shouldn't be dictating how the story goes. Ideally, for a multi part saga / series like this, they should be hiring people to write the fucking thing before they begin production. At least an outline. Iger and Kennedy shitcanning George Lucas' outline for the sequels seems absolutely ludicrous when you consider how they approached these films now.
OP
OP
I could point out the many many similarities but that might take too long. Eh I'll do it anyways.
You have the big bad behind the scenes who wants Luke Skywalker (Palpatine, Snoke)
The second villain is a dark side user who wants to turn the main hero into a villain and help them rule the galaxy together. (Vader, Kylo Ren)
The conflict is the rebels/resistance vs the Empire/First Order and the Empire/First Order wants to rule the galaxy and take over
There are new massive Star Destroyers
In both The Last Jedi and The Empire Strikes Back we follow our heroes on a single ship, on the run through space from the Empire/First Order's most powerful capital ships.
Meanwhile, Luke and Rey are off on remote planets, learning the ways of the Force from Jedi Masters who are pretty cagey about taking on new pupils at first.
Both movies have huge parental revelations
Both Yoda and Luke are in exile before training their proteges
Both jedi masters turn down the hero at first
After brief periods of training, they both leave to rejoin the larger fight after experiencing Force-induced visions.
The subplots in both movies take us to far away exotic locations where our heroes only manage to escape because their droids save their butts.
Luke and Rey confront Darth Vader and Kylo Ren. Rey implores Kylo to turn back to the light just like how Luke implored his father to turn back to the light.
Then there's the big lightsaber fight. After all is said and done, Darth Vader and Kylo Ren offer Luke and Rey the chance to rule the galaxy by their sides. They also reveal huge secrets about both characters' parentage.
Luke and Rey refuse to join the darkside. By the end of the film, our heroes are batter, changed, and barely holding on, but they're ready to keep fighting and hopeful for the future.
The entire movie is literally The Empire Strikes back with new characters and some new twists. Whoever calls it "fresh" or "original" clearly can't see how similar it is to the Empire Strikes Back. Rey's arc is just Luke's arc all over again.
Yes, Episode IV to VI (and I to III the fall from grace) are really are about redepemtion. That dosn't mean VII to IX needs another redemption arc.
In a way you already get that with Luke in TLJ and way better done.
"oh... we need to redeem Kylo?
well how the fuck are we gonna do that without having a guy for him to kill?!"
well how the fuck are we gonna do that without having a guy for him to kill?!"
True. Even in ANH it was Tarkin who blew up Alderaan. Vader himself didn't really seem to care either way.