Star Wars: Terrio on Kennedy’s involvement in RoS

[bluexy]

I think the issue is they had a light/dark conflict with Ben and did absolutely nothing with it. He turns out out to be a stupidly written character as a result.

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it just works so well that kylo confronts his pull to the light in TFA and then kills his dad. embraces the dark side of the force. helps kill billions. and then his actions in TLJ are just him manipulating the situation to get what he wants as he's able. he wants to kill snoke. he wants to kill rey. he still wants power. and it's all going exactly to plan until a conflicted rey has her light/dark confrontation and rejects kylo. then we see the person kylo's been hiding from rey in all his fury.

and yeah, all of that completely gone and wasted in ROTS.

 

[Deleted member 2802]

One of the worst ideas ever.

p.s.

This story ended with ROTJ as far as I'm concerned.

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whelp

 

[Tuorom]

That's gonna be a fat no from me.

Hux is a joke, Rian deliberately played that up in TLJ.

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Yea but imagine if there was actually good writing over the trilogy and Hux was actually a good character

 

[sir_crocodile]

^

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It was the plan from the beginning, so presumable JJ, Kennedy or Kasdan came up with it and it was agreed:



Which makes the way it came together even weirder. Why was Rian not told to foreshadow this? Why was Trevorrow allowed to go on with a palpatine-less script?

 

[Gunslinger]

That's gonna be a fat no from me.

Hux is a joke, Rian deliberately played that up in TLJ.

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How can a joke rise this far in the military rank? A military strong enough to wipe out the entire new republic. Grand moff Tarkin is what Hux should have been to hold a position as empires right hand man.

 

[Lunar Wolf]

Reminder that Lucas was the one who pushed for the Emperor returning in Dark Empire.

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Also reminder that Lucas didn't see that stuff as canon just his own stuff. He's said as much.

"

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There are two worlds here; There's my world, which is the movies, and there's this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books."– George Lucas, Cinescape, July 2001

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"I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world.

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That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."– George Lucas, Starlog, August 2005

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"For me and my training here at Lucasfilm,

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working with George, he and I always thought the Expanded Universe was just that. It was an expanded universe. Basically it's stories that are really fun and really exciting, but they're a view on Star Wars, not necessarily canon to him.That was the way it was from the day I walked into Lucasfilm with him all through Clone Wars, everything we worked on, he felt the Clone Wars series and his movies were what was actually the reality of it all, the canon, then there was everything else. So it wasn't a big dynamic shift for me mentally when there was this big announcement saying the EU is now Legends. I'm like, 'Okay, well, it's kind of the same thing to me because that the way I work.'"–Dave Filoni, ComicBook.com, September 2017

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The books and comics were always an AU universe to him.

 

[Deleted member 5596]

It was the plan from the beginning, so presumable JJ, Kennedy or Kasdan came up with it and it was agreed:



Which makes the way it came together even weirder. Why was Rian not told to foreshadow this? Why was Trevrrow allowed to go on with a palpatine-less script?

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Maybe they shouldn't have let Rian made a movie in which he basically tries to stay away as possible from Palpatine return. lol

Nah, if Palpatine was always planned for Ep.IX the landing wouldn't have been so fucking bad lol

 

[Tavernade]

Ideas are one thing.

Execution, however ...

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Exactly. I actually 'liked' Palps in this movie. He's not the issue, at least for me. If anything he's a highlight, if you can head canon away the Rey twist. Was he necessary? No, but neither were any other of the half dozen new cast members.

 

[Blader]

I'm speaking to your "Kennedy also said at this year's Star Wars Celebration that Palpatine's return was something they were planning to do from the beginning." statement. If that was truly the plan:

a) why didn't jj or rian foreshadow it
b) why was trevrrow allowed to go forward with a version of the tilm with no palps
c) why was ian mcdiarmid told so late - there was a chance he could have turned it down due to other commitments.

it just feels like it wasn't the plan to me.

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Yeah I have no idea. Either it wasn't actually the plan all along and deciding to bring back Palpatine was solely JJ and Terrio's idea for cracking IX, or it was the plan all along but Kennedy is creatively hands-off enough that it was never forced on either Rian or Trevorrow. In which case less of a plan and maybe more of a suggestion? Idk. The post-mortem on this years down the road will be interesting to read.

 

[XaviConcept]

Exactly. I actually 'liked' Palps in this movie. He's not the issue, at least for me. If anything he's a highlight, if you can head canon away the Rey twist. Was he necessary? No, but neither were any other of the half dozen new cast members.

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Yeah making him so literal is the issue to me, if he had come back as some sort of dark side of the force ghost threatening to corrupt it all from the inside and thus requiring Rey to connect to the Force in a way Luke never could then at least its something new

Zombie Palp with a million star destroyers and a crew to match managing to stay hidden from the good guys AND the bad just felt very unrealistic EVEN for SW

 

[Musubi]

The Palpatine stuff is fine. People really overblowing all of this.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

It was the plan from the beginning, so presumable JJ, Kennedy or Kasdan came up with it and it was agreed:



Which makes the way it came together even weirder. Why was Rian not told to foreshadow this? Why was Trevorrow allowed to go on with a palpatine-less script?

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I think what she means is it was an idea that was considered at the start. But it wasn't necessarily always an "active" idea. During Rian's production and Colin's production, this idea was considered scrapped. When JJ came back, he or Kennedy decided to bring back that idea. So it's an idea that they had at the start and that was finally used in Episode IX, but it wasn't always destined to be used.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

The Palpatine stuff is fine. People really overblowing all of this.

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How is it even fine?

Unless you like your villains to asspull a fleet with multiple death star cannons, have a stupid power-up that EMTs every rebel ship, and have plans for everything (stealing Rey's lifeforce if she didn't agree to the Sith ritual).

 

[Deleted member 176]

One of the worst ideas ever.

p.s.

This story ended with ROTJ as far as I'm concerned.

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technically he is dead. we'll let audiences form their own opinions on what that means... lol

 

[Garlador]

The Palpatine stuff is fine. People really overblowing all of this.

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It's a really bad idea, one that lessens the impact of the OT, has barely any proper foreshadowing in the ST, and seems to run counter to what everyone involved in the original movies thought or wanted.

 

[PanzerKraken]

It was the plan from the beginning, so presumable JJ, Kennedy or Kasdan came up with it and it was agreed:



Which makes the way it came together even weirder. Why was Rian not told to foreshadow this? Why was Trevorrow allowed to go on with a palpatine-less script?

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Because she's clearly lying. They had no clear plan here

 

[Deleted member 5596]

The Palpatine stuff is fine. People really overblowing all of this.

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Is fine, if you are a grown up adult that wants to see the OT all over again and denying the new generation to have their own trilogy, with it's own interpretation and themes of the series whole mythos.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

Painting targets around random darts in the wall.

Course I'm the crazy one that is fine with Palpatine being in the movie. It's just about everything else I have a problem with.

 

[NHarmonic.]

Wow, spoilers much? I wanted to find out that it was Kennedy's idea by reading The Art of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker by Phil Szostak out March 2020!!!

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Isn't it already out?

 

[Parthenios]

Kylo had to be redeemed because he's Leia and Han's son is maybe the worst thing I've ever heard re: Star Wars.

It's all those racist teens that get off for their crimes because the judge says they come from a good family.

 

[Dr. Mario]

Kathy had this overall vision that we had to be telling the same story for nine episodes

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[CesareNorrez]

I mean the prequels ends with Anakin killing dozens of kids, dismembered and trapped on a robotic body after falling to the dark side. So yeah, I don't think all kids stories needs redemption arcs.

(And was Ben shown being good? Because TFA from start shows Ben already being a Space Nazi)

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Anakin was consumed by Vader at that point. The Dark Side is a literal thing in Star Wars. So it's hard to directly relate it to bad behavior in our world, it's an extreme example as I have said. But the idea is you are not really you once you turn. Yea it's maybe not so simple when you intellectualize it, but children tend to understand right away.

You are right not all kids stories need redemption arcs, but the level Star Wars operates on is that redemption is possible. So when you dismiss it, then you fundamentally disagree with the philosophy of Star Wars. Which is fine but it's criticizing Star Wars for something it was never trying to be. There is room for redefining what redemption means of course and maybe that's something the Sequel Trilogy should have focused on.

And Ben Solo is presented as having turned to the Dark Side, so yes he was good at one point. He was not born evil and his parents and family, known good people, knew him as a good person at one point. This is presented in TFA and expanded on in TLJ.

 

[Musubi]

How is it even fine?

Unless you like your villains to asspull a fleet with multiple death star cannons, have a stupid power-up that EMTs every rebel ship, and have plans for everything (stealing Rey's lifeforce if she didn't agree to the Sith ritual).

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Cause I don't need to logic scrutinize everything. Rise of Skywalker made a Sith Lord finally legit scary and I loved that. The insane force feats that were pulled off in the movie were great including Palpatine's lightning storm. The only really "unrealistic" thing is his secret army of star destroyers but I'm willing to handwave that because it doesn't bother me at all.

 

[Deleted member 4976]

If you absolutely must have redemption, you don't need another villain as a substitute either.

There's nothing stopping Kylo Ren from being redeemed after he's served the role of the primary antagonist in episode 9.

 

[Future Gazer]

Kathleen Kennedy has bungled Star Wars. And guess what? You can say that with all due respect to her resume and without being a sexist.

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Yep.

 

[CloudWolf]

"When you rewatch the earlier films," he added, "things start to make additional sense. Ren and his devotion to the idea of his grandfather. The voice that he's always heard in his head. The certain similarities between Snoke and Palpatine. The intention was that, by the time you get to Episode IX, you realize there were real reasons this is all happening. It all shows how this story is being fought cyclically through the series."

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Why does 'earlier films' in Terrio's mind mean 'The Force Awakens and The Force Awakens only'?

 

[Lunar Wolf]

Cause I don't need to logic scrutinize everything. Rise of Skywalker made a Sith Lord finally legit scary and I loved that. The insane force feats that were pulled off in the movie were great including Palpatine's lightning storm. The only really "unrealistic" thing is his secret army of star destroyers but I'm willing to handwave that because it doesn't bother me at all.

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The only unrealistic thing? Really? You don't even really believe it.

That's great that you can enjoy dumb shit but some people expected....intelligence out of this movie.

The Clone Wars is an actual cartoon and is smarter than this.

 

[night814]

I said it before, but if you were going to bring back palps, it HAD to happen in Episode VIII. Even if it was just having the holocom go out right at the end as a cliffhanger.

*If* this is true I really don't understand why she didn't ask Rian to put it in VIII.

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Because it ain't, they didn't plan the trilogy at all so it's all over the place and shit got pulled out of asses the last second.

 

[KingSnake]

Rise of Skywalker made a Sith Lord finally legit scary and I loved that.

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Lol. He has one ridiculous plan after another. He improvises like the stupidest beginner. He sucks the force from Rey and Kylo but not all of it just because. He throws Kylo in a pit although that doesn't kill anybody in Star Wars.
He is defeated by two lightsabers. He practically kills himself. Again.

Palpatine is joke at this point.

Snoke was scarier than him in the throne scene. Kylo is scarier when he throws a tantrum.

 

[Deleted member 5596]

Anakin was consumed by Vader at that point. The Dark Side is a literal thing in Star Wars. So it's hard to directly relate it to bad behavior in our world, it's an extreme example as I have said. But the idea is you are not really you once you turn. Yea it's maybe not so simple when you intellectualize it, but children tend to understand right away.

You are right not all kids stories need redemption arcs, but the level Star Wars operates on is that redemption is possible. So when you dismiss it, then you fundamentally disagree with the philosophy of Star Wars. Which is fine but it's criticizing Star Wars for something it was never trying to be. There is room for redefining what redemption means of course and maybe that's something the Sequel Trilogy should have focused on.

And Ben Solo is presented as having turned to the Dark Side, so yes he was good at one point. He was not born evil and his parents and family, known good people, knew him as a good person at one point. This is presented in TFA and expanded on in TLJ.

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I feel Star Wars operates on the level of redemption...on the old movies, that dosn't mean every ST trilogy from now on has to play the "redemption" card, that's an incredible narrow vision, not only from a narrative standpoint but also from an ethics point of view. ST shouldn't only work on the level that any blatant evil act deserve redemption and forgiveness and that becoming bad, sometimes just mean that and there's no turning back from the dark side.

And you could argue that SW plays with the idea, that no one borns evil and is just people that can fall to the dark side.
(and all those Storm Troppers being blasted don't deserve redemption? They were just kidnapped kids for all we know)

 

[Elderly Parrot]

The Palpatine stuff is fine. People really overblowing all of this.

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Lol he was the equivalent of a crane game claw trying to get Rey toy prize. Dude could have waited a day before enacting his plan, you know when his ships were ready.

 

[Heshinsi]

but we also felt that there was no way that we were going to not find a path to redemption for Kylo Ren, the son of Han and Leia."

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The redemption was totally not earned, and it was resolved very quickly. Billions of people died due to the efforts of Kylo Ren...

In RoS, did Kylo

Spoiler

even show any remorse for the stuff he did or helped accomplish that weren't related to Han or Rey?

 

[Deleted member 176]

The Palpatine stuff is fine. People really overblowing all of this.

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surely it's everyone else who is wrong

don't they know it's fine?

 

[KingSnake]

Lol he was the equivalent of a crane game claw trying to get Rey toy prize. Dude could have waited a day before enacting his plan, you know when his ships were ready.

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He shouldn't have made his broadcast in Fortnite before the fleet was already in position all over the galaxy. He's just a senile Sith at this point.

 

[night814]

Palpatine should have been a vengeful spirit, who is looking to regain a flesh body. He would be the macguffin of the film with the First Order and the Resistance trying to stop him.

By the end, Palps manages to rejuvenate himself and get a new body, Rey combined with spirits of Luke and Leia kill him once more.

But even after destroying his body in the climax, Palps spirit is even more mad and as a last resort takes over Kylo. Kylo redeems himself by sacrificing himself to destroy Palps once and for all. You could still have Kylo be the main villain for most of the film, and give him redemption.

Thank you for reading my fanfiction.

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I believe something like this was one of the possible rumored endings at one point. would not be surprised if it was filmed and everything.

 

[Musubi]

surely it's everyone else who is wrong

don't they know it's fine?

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I've seen plenty of people who have enjoyed RoS so seems like it to me.

 

[PanzerKraken]

The redemption of Vader was also always stupid, I was glad that in the novels Leia didn't give a fuck, she hated Vader for what he had done and didn't accept the redemption like Luke did. Kylo also doesn't deserve any sympathy. If anything it really makes Rey look bad to just be so cool with him and such after

 

[Kernel]

The redemption was totally not earned, and it was resolved very quickly

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Adam Driver literally went mute after he was redeemed.

There's so many odd things in this film like this.

 

[Deleted member 8593]

I have never seen this many people who worked on a film throw each other under the bus like this.

This is how Rian Johnson sleeps knowing he made by far the best and only worthwhile film in this cursed sequel trilogy.

 

[Deleted member 13798]

Adam Driver literally went mute after he was redeemed.

There's so many odd things in this film like this.

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Not true. He said "ow" after jumping on the chain.

 

[Faddy]

Also reminder that Lucas didn't see that stuff as canon just his own stuff. He's said as much.


The books and comics were always an AU universe to him.

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In many ways Lucas has a very good stance on this stuff. Anything not in the Movies is fanfiction to him. Mabe the official licensed authors wouldn't like that description but that is pretty much how he dealt with it.

And by far the sanest way for any non-obsessive fan to view Star Wars is that only the movies matter and everything else is just a bit of fun.

If you absolutely must have redemption, you don't need another villain as a substitute either.

There's nothing stopping Kylo Ren from being redeemed after he's served the role of the primary antagonist in episode 9.

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This.

It is a much harder movie to write well but a story of Kylo redeeming himself by dismantling the First Order, taking down the war profiteers and ultimately supporting something like a new galactic republic in honour of his mother would have been a far stronger redemption.

 

[Heshinsi]

Adam Driver literally went mute after he was redeemed.

There's so many odd things in this film like this.

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I edited my post to add a question in regards to Kylo showing remorse, and I think you answered it for me lol.

 

[Deleted member 13798]

The redemption of Vader was also always stupid, I was glad that in the novels Leia didn't give a fuck, she hated Vader for what he had done and didn't accept the redemption like Luke did. Kylo also doesn't deserve any sympathy. If anything it really makes Rey look bad to just be so cool with him and such after

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Honestly Ben being redeemed, living, and accepting his consequences by willingly facing justice would've been great.

And then you could have a tender moment where Rey force passes him an alien apple while he's in his cell or something. The fact that they had a unique bond should've gone in many different directions, except for the one that they took it in with shitty romance that made no sense.

Nope, we get hacky shit instead. No consequences and a half-assed resolution with weird implications about Rey's willingness to overlook mass murder for "love"(?).

 

[Wulfric]

I simply can't wait for the tell-all books when the NDAs expire and the creators involved have had a few years to process this.

Disney top brass, Lucasfilm creative, Rian, JJ, I want that tea spilt

 

[Deleted member 59955]

I have never seen this many people who worked on a film throw each other under the bus like this.

This is how Rian Johnson sleeps knowing he made by far the best and only worthwhile film in this cursed sequel trilogy.

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He remade The Empire Strikes Back and made it worse.

Such an accomplishment.

 

[Deleted member 8593]

He remade The Empire Strikes Back and made it worse.

Such an accomplishment.

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Literal word garbage.

 

[Bor Gullet]

Lol. He has one ridiculous plan after another. He improvises like the stupidest beginner. He sucks the force from Rey and Kylo but not all of it just because. He throws Kylo in a pit although that doesn't kill anybody in Star Wars.
He is defeated by two lightsabers. He practically kills himself. Again.

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You mean like in ROTJ?

Palps has always been a go with the flow kind of guy.

 

[Deleted member 176]

I've seen plenty of people who have enjoyed RoS so seems like it to me.

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I know more people who say it wasn't fine, so unfortunately it's not fine.

 

[Lifejumper]

He remade The Empire Strikes Back and made it worse.

Such an accomplishment.

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He remade ESB? That's new one.

 

[JAlpsWanderer]

The only really "unrealistic" thing is his secret army of star destroyers but I'm willing to handwave that because it doesn't bother me at all.

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There's nothing wrong with this particular idea. I don't think it's unfeasible in a world where they're capable of building battle stations the size of planets that the emperor, during his 20 year reign, was able to plan something like a Sith fleet discreetly.
The idea has no problem. Even RotJ introduced the second Death Star without any hint whatsoever. These elements are classic Star Wars.

The problem is the audience has evolved, whereas Star Wars chose not to.