While i think TLJ is worst SW movie made but what Miss Tran had to endure is fucking disgusting. Same goes for Jake Lloyd and Ahmad Best. Both of those guys life got messed up cause of scumbags harassing people.
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Star Wars sidelines Kelly Marie Tran (OPEN TRoS SPOILERS)
- Thread starter MinusTydus
- Start date
And how, pray tell, is Rose's character so lame we shut her out to a minute of the movie's length and validate every racist that exists?
Not really, the prequels were a bastion of terrible characters, from racist caricatures to character who look edgy like Darth Maul but have no personality. Rose's biggest 'crime' is arguable she has too much screen time in TLJ and Canto Blight and the corny kiss scene, but even she's a totally ok and charming everyday man/woman type of character drawn into the action.
But I'm not even sure that's relevant, she was an important character in TLJ and as storytellers of ROS, ideally you would do something with the character or improve her.
Why everything has to due to something with racism? If a character does not fit from the beginning, there is not much you can do. Rose's character was misguided from the beginning. It was about forcing an affair with Finn that just didn't fit. I do not blame JJ for this, she was a secondary character who should not have a major role in the last movie. I think JJ tried to focus on the original trio Rey, Poe and Finn.t.. I mean General Hux was basically cut off in major part of the movie, and from Episode VII he was supposed to be the Moff Tarking upgraded. But no, RJ had the brilliant idea of ridiculing the character, and JJ had no choice but to turn him into a "spy" who hated "Kylo Ren".
BTW, the people who insulted Rose via twitter or instagram don't deserve to go back to a movie anymore. No one in this life deserves to be treated that way.
I also see that nobody agrees on anything. If Rey is the main superpower character (then due to feminism). If Rose has a minute on the screen it is due to racism, if Finn is not a Jedi per se it is due to racism, and the man had one of the best leading roles of the entire saga.
Come on WTF is going on here?
BTW, the people who insulted Rose via twitter or instagram don't deserve to go back to a movie anymore. No one in this life deserves to be treated that way.
I also see that nobody agrees on anything. If Rey is the main superpower character (then due to feminism). If Rose has a minute on the screen it is due to racism, if Finn is not a Jedi per se it is due to racism, and the man had one of the best leading roles of the entire saga.
Come on WTF is going on here?
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...I...ok I fail to see why or how JJ was forced to make Hux that way. Hux was already a joke in TFA where he's at least 70% bluster. Even his supposed badass moment, when he launches Starkiller Base against the Republic, he's yelling so ineptly it knocks the wind right out of that speech.
And...like...the whole point behind Hux in VII (and VII) was that he was flustered easily and looked incompetent but had the benfit of having nearly every strategy of his work out. There is nothing in Hux's character arc that would "force" JJ to make him to role he chose, as if a concept could even exist to begin with.
Do you remember how silly Hux looked when he's yelling on Star Killer Base? Even in TFA, Hux looked like a man child trying to imitate his idols from the empire, he was easy to mock but then later on in TLJ he considers killing Kylo Ren when he's down. I thought Hux was meant to be this uptight buffoon of a general we're meant to understimate and then he'll do something awful... but no there's no depth and he just gets killed by a new character.
Uh, no. The whole point of both him and Kylo in TFA is that they are two dweebs cosplaying as Tarkin and Vader. We are supposed to think they are intimidating but by the end we see that they are both fronting and need to grow up and stop bickering. Then when TLJ rolls around we see Kylo Ren stop caring about being Darth Vader Jr and Hux begins plotting to kill him and take over. They were both starting to grow up.
Then TROS makes Kylo put the mask back on and Hux dies in a hilarious manner after giving up on the First Order and leaking stuff for the lols. Doesnt Hux say something like "I don't care if you win?" when he's talking to the heroes? Yeah, this script was a piece of shit.
It's like the loosest fitting mask. The people on the first page going "Comparing KMT to Jar Jar isn't bad because he was voiced by a black man!" also aren't even trying to hide it at this point.
That's not moral complexity, that quintessential childish both sidesm. Complaining about the how the good force is trying to oppose clearly evil and destructive force by tut tutting their means and providing zero pragmatic alternatives.
Been a while since I've seen TLJ but I remember her and Finn's sidequest felt like filler and her dialogue was excruciatingly bad in certain points. Not saying that this validates the racists who attacked KMT.
No for god's sake no, what they did to KMT It is a reflection of the society in which we live. Where hate and fanboyism can take you anywhere. It is simply people who are angry with life and feel nothing but pleasure insulting others via the internet.
We are questioning here if the use of the character was important for the development of the story, was it really relevant? In my opinion no, since from TLJ, she was sent to a sidequest that had no relevance in the story. NONE (except saving private Finn).
Tbf if the ROS story hadn't been such a burning trash fire maybe they there would have been some use for her character.
The movie despite being so long still felt rushed. What would they add to her character that would made it any better?
Im glad they focused on the main three plus Kylo.
Im glad they focused on the main three plus Kylo.
I may be in the minority here, but as we know Rose had a crush on Finn and Finn with Rey, I would have liked to see them bond over this because the people they fancy don't seem interested in them the same way. Just a cute bonding scene or something would be better than nothing and they mature as characters. Those relationships go nowhere.
Yeah, you didn't understand the movie. You don't have to like the casino sidequest, but it has an obvious purpose in the story. Finn starts the movie ready to abandon the fight because all he cares about is himself. He just wants to escape the First Order forever.
When he gets roped into the casino mission, he sees how bad for the galaxy that selfishness is. These rich scumbags who keep slaves, abuse animals and are perfectly happy for the galaxy to be at war as long as they can live the high life. These are the people that Finn would be throwing his lot in with by abandoning the fight against the First Order. People like DJ who only look out for themselves. Rose helps Finn to get over that selfishness and commit to the cause, although he goes a bit too far towards the end and has to be stopped from throwing his life away for nothing.
That's not "no relevance to the story". That is the story.
I could MAYBE sort of kind of (not really) understand the argument that Rose wasn't good in TLJ and it was "okay" to shelve her in TRoS if TRoS was actually competently made and actually told a story that MIGHT have been good enough to justify that there wasn't enough room/time/script to fit her in. Instead we got a movie that introduced new characters that don't do anything, one of which could have been completely supplanted by Rose, and then proceed to leave the Asian in the sidelines studying.
Obviously not everything is feminist, racist, whatever, there's little chance we'll ever know anything unless JJ comes out and says why he did the things he did, and then some would still never believe him. But I think the issue many people have is we're in this spot where various groups are just now starting to get representation in roles and it's being met by some pretty overtly vocal racism and misogyny. When you have an all white cast I guess it's pretty easy when you have a character relegated to the sidelines to guess why that happened and people don't generally think about it. The actor either was going through some shit and they didn't want to work with them or there were story issues, right choice or not, but there's rarely a second thought as to if there's something more nefarious behind it. When you trot out minority characters as some bastion of representation and get a community's hopes up to sideline them the next film after some intense racist vitriol aimed at the actress, well, there's always going to be that question mark, you know? It may have nothing to do with it at all. It might have everything to do with it. And the fact we're not a point yet where no-one here can say it had nothing to do with it is why it's an issue.
I feel like we're at a point where some people need to just take stands. Just as I'd expect any of our employers to defend a minority employee from this type of shit by standing behind them I think Hollywood should follow suit. They're just fucking movies not some highly noble endeavor that can't be compromised. They already compromise their vision for all sorts of things. So I think if I was writing a movie and the character wasn't going to be that big of a thing in the next but the internet decided to be a total douche to that person, you can bet your ass I would be thinking of how to rub that shit in their faces and give that person more work in the movie. Assuming they wanted it of course.
Only after we power through this toxic shit will we be able to go back to assuming people are cut for story reasons.
Only line that I can call "excruciatingly bad" is her last line because of how on the nose it is to her completed character arc but like we are talking about a franchise where the main bad guy is called Darth Sidious whose minions are named General Grevious, General Pryde, and Count Dooku. And, like, there is nothing as painful as something like Jar Jar or the CIS's racist accents.
Literally everything up to the Endor Moon is the characters faffing around. Jannah plays no role in the story either. Yet Rose is cut off even when she is on screen. Like, put her in the scene with the horses at least. Even minor things could have been done instead of the crap in TROS.
It is what they get for not designing the trilogy detailed enough first and then making the movies. Johnson didn't give a fuck about what Abrams wanted and Abrams didn't give a fuck about what Johnson wanted. Either you do a Feige like thing, or you have one person making a trilogy.
It's not even that simple though because Abrams undoes even a lot of the character progression from TFA. So Abrams didn't give a fuck what Abrams wanted either.
I agree the prequels are way worse than the sequel trilogy. Terrible films with some really obvious racial stereotypes too. I get that people are pissed at some of the creative choices in the Disney films but it creeps me out when I see people saying they're even worse than say AoTC.
Yes, so much this. Everyone saying "Rose's character sux so it's fine they cut her is ROS" need to watch TLJ again.
For the record I don't think they needed to increase her screentime massively, just do more with her character. Yoda in ESB was a key element of the movie but only had one scene in ROTJ, but it was an important scene that moved the story and Luke's character forward.
If Rose had dispensed some wisdom to Finn before he left that he grew to understand and then implement over the course of the movie to change the outcome of the battle it would have given both her and Finn a role to play in the story. That's all I wanted JJ.
This.
It's awful that Kelly had to endure so much shit and hatred, it's not her fault her character just was written badly and was a misfit in the trilogy. Finn and Rose has absolutely no chemistry whatsoever in TLJ and Finns low key looks at Rose after she steals a kiss from him like she's fucking nuts. The real blame lies in Disney for not having a three film arc planned from the get go, both TLJ and ROS felt reactive and just tonally off.
Given the hints that the cast and the VD, it seems very likely that the reason why a lot of Rose's scenes were cut were because of three things.
1. They probably hinted at Rose helping Finn connect more with Rey, since the leaks and John's previous comments hinted at him doing some stunts that were not in the final cut and the vD pointed out that Leia was going to or was training him in the way of the force.
Both Daisy and Kelly spoke of filming scenes together so we know that they and Noemi worked on something that was drastically changed at the 11th hour.
2. The VD states that both Luke and Lando went looking for Lando's kids. John on his Twitter had posts indicating that Noemi and his character were related. Likely Rose had a part in that discovery, that Lando was Jannah and Finn's dad.
3. According to the VD Dominic's character was going to play a larger part in the story and rose was supposed to have made something that would be a big point. Again this was cut because of those plots being dropped.
It's clear from the VD that the story was heavily altered late in the game, and it's likely because Rey and Kylo were going to have a different sort of ending (possibly her being helped by Finn) and because someone at the top wanted changes JJ had to alter his vision to do what they wanted. So Rose got dropped due to all the cuts.
And lets be real here, wher is any of the bitching about Finn or Jannah's cut story? Rose is being used by a lot as a prop for their own agenda.
They can't release her scenes because they will contradict the narrative that was built around Ben being the MC now.
1. They probably hinted at Rose helping Finn connect more with Rey, since the leaks and John's previous comments hinted at him doing some stunts that were not in the final cut and the vD pointed out that Leia was going to or was training him in the way of the force.
Both Daisy and Kelly spoke of filming scenes together so we know that they and Noemi worked on something that was drastically changed at the 11th hour.
2. The VD states that both Luke and Lando went looking for Lando's kids. John on his Twitter had posts indicating that Noemi and his character were related. Likely Rose had a part in that discovery, that Lando was Jannah and Finn's dad.
3. According to the VD Dominic's character was going to play a larger part in the story and rose was supposed to have made something that would be a big point. Again this was cut because of those plots being dropped.
It's clear from the VD that the story was heavily altered late in the game, and it's likely because Rey and Kylo were going to have a different sort of ending (possibly her being helped by Finn) and because someone at the top wanted changes JJ had to alter his vision to do what they wanted. So Rose got dropped due to all the cuts.
And lets be real here, wher is any of the bitching about Finn or Jannah's cut story? Rose is being used by a lot as a prop for their own agenda.
They can't release her scenes because they will contradict the narrative that was built around Ben being the MC now.
I thought they'd do something better with him. After all he's seen everything, has been with the skywalkers since Anakin was a child up to this point... i was expecting a real talk with Rey about this...
But lol nope. They handled everyone so terribly in TROS.
Del Toro's character is awful (everything in Finn and Rose sideplot in TLJ is kinda awful), but he doesn't get any shit because he was a small character that litterally came and went, he was just a plot device to get them caught (kinda like Lando in Empire, just done way shittier because he's a sleazy character we don't trust from the start).
I absolutely love TLJ and really enjoyed Kelly-Maries performance in it.
But I always had the impression that she was mainly there for Finn to understand what the resistance stands for and to realize what he wants to fight for.
So I'm not really surprised that she plays a much smaller part in TROS, because she's already fulfilled her role for the trilogy in TLJ.
Also, Abrams and Terrio had obviously also no idea what to do with Finn, Poe, etc. in TROS either...but yeah, they got way more screentime anyway. Which felt very forced most of the time. Sure, they could have done the same for Rose. Maybe they even should have.
I certainly wouldn't have minded more screentime for Kelly-Marie in TROS, but at the same time I don't feel like her diminished role should be interpreted too cynical. Tbh I'm rather pleasantly suprised that she's pretty prominently featured on the press tour for TROS.
But I always had the impression that she was mainly there for Finn to understand what the resistance stands for and to realize what he wants to fight for.
So I'm not really surprised that she plays a much smaller part in TROS, because she's already fulfilled her role for the trilogy in TLJ.
Also, Abrams and Terrio had obviously also no idea what to do with Finn, Poe, etc. in TROS either...but yeah, they got way more screentime anyway. Which felt very forced most of the time. Sure, they could have done the same for Rose. Maybe they even should have.
I certainly wouldn't have minded more screentime for Kelly-Marie in TROS, but at the same time I don't feel like her diminished role should be interpreted too cynical. Tbh I'm rather pleasantly suprised that she's pretty prominently featured on the press tour for TROS.
Tran didnt deserve any of what happend to her in this series. I'd argue the same for Finn as well. People of color as just window dressing is not really all that cool
1. None of the focus on the trio required that Greg Gunberg and Dominic Monaghan get more lines than Kelly Marie Tran.
2. Not a single character in TFA is better than the New Hope characters they were based on, and Hux is no exception. He was nothing more than a British guy who shouts. Acting like he had anything on Tarkin is an insult to both how Tarkin was written and Peter Cushing's performance. The only time Hux shows potential as a villain is when he prepares to kill Kylo in TLJ, so Johnson did the character a service that Abrams couldn't.
Honestly, they had enough trouble as it just by focusing on the main cast.
Are you so sure? There's not even the slightest possibility the movie was already stuffed as it was and running at breakneck speeds? She had her arc in TLJ and showed up in TROS, that's it.
Are you so sure? There's not even the slightest possibility the movie was already stuffed as it was and running at breakneck speeds? She had her arc in TLJ and showed up in TROS, that's it.
User Banned (1 Month): Inflammatory Drive-By in a Thread on Concerns of Representation; Prior Ban for Inflammatory Trolling
Bad character and bad actress. The one thing JJ got correct with his shitty movie was sidelining her.
Okay? Stuff the movie less then.
Did this movie need quests for two separate wayfinders to a Sith planet, or this dumb mcguffin dagger, or this mission to translate the dagger, or multiple fakeout deaths, etc?
They chose this story, filled with pointlessly fetching random bullshit, and the story was fucking bad.
What lol
This is what they get? Who is they? KMT? She deserved to be sidelined because white people don't plan things properly?
This seems like a thread where you can tell who drank the coolaid or not. Anyone saying "it's actually okay rose got sidelined" is either
A) racist
B) hates last Jedi to the point where they can't give it anything, not one thing
C) really wants to validate a red letter media video
Rose was cool because she was effectively a nobody whose sister was the hero and found her badass self through the course of the movie. Even if you don't like the movie she was a main character with a fun personality. It's shameful this is all she gets
A) racist
B) hates last Jedi to the point where they can't give it anything, not one thing
C) really wants to validate a red letter media video
Rose was cool because she was effectively a nobody whose sister was the hero and found her badass self through the course of the movie. Even if you don't like the movie she was a main character with a fun personality. It's shameful this is all she gets
The misalignment is what the people in charge of Star Wars Sequel Trilogy get for not designing a proper story plan. What in my post made you think I was targetting one of the actors with that 'they', as I clearly named the directors.
D) Thinks TROS is one of the worst movies in the series and is glad that Rose didn't get ruined like every other character did in that movie.
It made me mad to be honest. I did not like the "forced" love story, but I liked her as a character. I wrongfully thought that the films were aiming to have a diverse cast with leading roles.
It is such a stupid pathetic tragedy that these films end up being less diverse than they appeared in the end. As usual white people with leading roles driving the plot and abandoning the potential of their diverse cast. Not to forget that people on other sexual spectrums do not exist except for a second..
There is no excuse how Finn, Rose has been treated in these films. The bigots won and Disney is shit.
I did not even like the Last Jedi. It had a lot of problems but this latest one managed to be worse in every department. I did not know it was possible to get this bad.
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