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lightning16

Member
May 17, 2019
1,763
It's a shame this is yet another game released recently that just doesn't give a shit about base console users. And I say that as someone who doesn't even own a base system anymore. It should hold way more weight in a review then it currently does imo. Who cares if a game is good and runs well on half the console hardware it's available on of it runs like crap on the other half? This just feels like Control all over again.
It's very frustrating and one of the potential issues I saw when the Pro consoles were initially revealed. It's maddening that it's never reflected in reviews, as you say. I imagine most reviews are based off the Pro consoles. I feel like Digital Foundry is damn near the only place I can rely on getting a good feel for how well a game runs on base consoles anymore.

I'd be interested in seeing what percentage of PS4's and XBO's out there currently being used are Pro versions vs base versions.
 

Completely Anonymous

alt account
Banned
Jun 7, 2019
861
I don't want to upgrade at this point. Am going to end up waiting for a sale, and may just not bother until PS5 next Fall if they don't clear the performance issues up
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
"and the framerate is "unleashed" šŸ˜‚

I wonder if the 1S issue is something that can be resolved or if its an inherent problem with the 1S's esram setup.

1X is good though. Shame about the performance mode.

I feel sorry for 1s + x1 owners.
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
It's a shame this is yet another game released recently that just doesn't give a shit about base console users. And I say that as someone who doesn't even own a base system anymore. It should hold way more weight in a review then it currently does imo. Who cares if a game is good and runs well on half the console hardware it's available on of it runs like crap on the other half? This just feels like Control all over again.
Well, here's the thing...

If you look back to last generation, games in the last couple years often ran horrible - much MUCH worse than what we're seeing here on base consoles, in fact. I think ambitions are simply outstripping capabilities for one reason or another. The mid-gen consoles sort of offset this in a way that we didn't see last gen.

The developers absolutely DO care, though, but it's very hard work especially in the case of Xbox One base where the system is such a pain to work with. It places huge demands on engineer time.

720P is rough. Base console starting to show it's age.
Well...it also shows how image treatment has improved. Battlefield 4 was a launch game running at 720p with lousy AA on Xbox One. Jedi uses Unreal's temporal upsampling producing a MUCH cleaner picture than BF4. So while it's still low-res, it has improved.

...and hey, we're in the era of Switch where sub-720p is a thing still!
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Well, here's the thing...

If you look back to last generation, games in the last couple years often ran horrible - much MUCH worse than what we're seeing here on base consoles, in fact. I think ambitions are simply outstripping capabilities for one reason or another. The mid-gen consoles sort of offset this in a way that we didn't see last gen.

The developers absolutely DO care, though, but it's very hard work especially in the case of Xbox One base where the system is such a pain to work with. It places huge demands on engineer time.


Well...it also shows how image treatment has improved. Battlefield 4 was a launch game running at 720p with lousy AA on Xbox One. Jedi uses Unreal's temporal upsampling producing a MUCH cleaner picture than BF4. So while it's still low-res, it has improved.

...and hey, we're in the era of Switch where sub-720p is a thing still!

I remember I stopped playing far cry 3 on the 360 because the framerate and aliasing were so distracting to me.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
Base PS4 update - even though I turned off the data collection, on the first planet this game has the Link's awakening "new area load" type of thing going on, unfortunately. But in regular gameplay it's fine. There are plenty of destructables and the player character seems to animate fine.

I've been with base consoles the whole gen, and except for a few games that could stand to run a bit better, they've both really delivered on performance in ways that last gen totally did not. If you've moved on to 4k that's understandable you wouldn't want to go back to 720p (though I remember doing exactly that over 10 years ago going from more than HD on PC to PS3, but anyways), and fortunately the pro/x do get you closer and higher up.
 

janusff

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,135
Austin, TX
Played through the first area/intro level in performance mode on Pro and it looked pretty great. Gonna stick with that mode.
 

Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
What is all this nonsense talk of the Pro running at 60fps in performance mode? I've played the first two hours of the game on version 1.02 and it's most definitely not a smooth 60fps.

I would say it's performance feels very similar to the X version shown in today's video from Dark1x

Also an important note. Giant Bomb mentioned during their quick look video that they were told the next patch will specifically address performance.
What about 30 fps mode? I doubt performance mode can reach a stable 60 fps in any kind of next future. 1440p on the X speaks for itself how demanding is it on console.
 

RingRang

Alt account banned
Banned
Oct 2, 2019
2,442
So is the base PS4 playable? I don't want to buy a 1X with new consoles (much, much more powerful) coming next year
You have to define "playable" for yourself, but by all accounts it's certainly better than the XB1S.

What about 30 fps mode? I doubt performance mode can reach a stable 60 fps in any kind of next future. 1440p on the X speaks for itself how demanding is it on console.
It's 30fps most of the time but it also drops when loading new areas.
 

Black_Stride

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
7,389
2020 cant come soon enough.

I just legit dont have time to actually go through this game right now.
Ill have to wait till its on EA Access.
 

Moves

Member
Oct 27, 2017
637
Graphic Enhanced mode on pro has been fine for me and I usually always go performance mode. Staying away from performance mode because of the Issue's Ive heard.
 

TheOne

Alt Account
Banned
May 25, 2019
947
Well, here's the thing...

If you look back to last generation, games in the last couple years often ran horrible - much MUCH worse than what we're seeing here on base consoles, in fact. I think ambitions are simply outstripping capabilities for one reason or another. The mid-gen consoles sort of offset this in a way that we didn't see last gen.

The developers absolutely DO care, though, but it's very hard work especially in the case of Xbox One base where the system is such a pain to work with. It places huge demands on engineer time.

I agree with this. I feel like Jedi Fallen Order is our first Far Cry 3 in a sense, whereas performance on base consoles are suffering due to its ambition. It's not like Respawn haven't tried either, I mean, it's running at 720p on Xbox One S. How much lower can you go past this point? Not sure what else they could have done without drastically reducing the quality of the assets and effects. Even on pc, when you drop everything from Epic to Medium (lowest settings), you don't really obtain that much of a performance boost. I think it's a just a case where the base consoles really are starting to show their age with ambitious games. Compared to last gen, it actually took much more time to get there and even so, similar performing games, let's call them FarCry3ers, are really scarce. It seems to me that in 2013, they've honestly made some great choices for furture proofing their consoles because we really are just starting to see games with disappointing performance. During the ending years of the last gen, we've seen games averaging 24-25fps with drops in the 10s, rarely touching any form of stable 30 fps. With the PS4 and the Xbox One, most games are stable at 30fps, with drops here and there during certain sections. Even Jedi Fallen Order seems to run at a proper 30 fps during many sections, something that Far Cry 3 couldn't really do at all.

Yes, I like to use Far Cry 3 as an example because that game clearly displayed how much we needed next gen consoles to happen soon.
 
Last edited:

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Unreal Engine doing its thing, haha.

I chuckle when playing The Outer Worlds (playing on PC and X1X) as textures/polys pop-in. It must be a bear to work with even with highly successful studios.

Can't wait to play this on my One X. Do they mention HDR in the video? (can't watch right now)

Told my wife this is what I want for my Birthday. šŸ˜
Thing is, its non-existent Gears 5.

Thank you Dark10x, fully understand why you went with the platforms available, you guys shouldn't have to deal with myopic members completely incapable of understanding the pressures of the wider media realities when producing these videos.
 

ShinobiBk

One Winged Slayer
Member
Dec 28, 2017
10,121
I played like an hour last night on Xbox One S. I didn't think the game was running all that bad like people are saying.

I definitely was not very impressed with the visuals though and thought they looked a bit grainy
 

Deleted member 50232

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 3, 2018
2,509
According to giant bomb a performance patch is due out soon. Once again day one/early adopters get shafted and it pays to wait a few weeks after launch.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
I think the difference is the Xbox one and PS4 processors were out of date/poor when they launched in 2013.

The cpus in the next generation consoles are much more advanced.

The cpus in current gen are not that bad when we consider that a lot of games are actually gpu constrained, so in a lot of cases the x1 + ps4 having a better cpu would not improve the framerate.
 

Lagspike_exe

Banned
Dec 15, 2017
1,974
Summary:

- Gap between XBO and XBX is more significant than usual.
- Running on Unreal 4 (instead of EA's staple Frostbite)

- XBX offers 2 modes: Quality: 1440p/30 FPS and Performance: 1080p/Unlocked.
- Base XBO runs at 720p

- Minor glitches noticed throughout gives the game an unpolished look
- XBO has a lot more issues compared to X.
- Texture pop-in can occur on X as well but much more prevalent on XBO.
- Game straight up freezes for a few seconds regularly on XBO (loading issue)
- XBO also fails to load world areas in time if moving quickly between places

- XBX "Quality Mode" is near-locked 30 FPS with dips in cut-scenes in opening levels.
- In later areas during combat, frame rate does dip a bit but mostly stable 30 FPS through out the game.
- XBX "Performance Mode" hovers around 45~50 FPS with some lighter areas closer to 60 (but never a stable 60)
- Average is low enough that even using VRR displays don't make the game feel stable.

- XBO has a lot more frequent dips in starting areas.
- In later areas the game feels more sluggish, frame rate is in mid 20's for long stretches and the above issues compound them.

- Summary: XBX Quality Mode best way to play the game. Performance Mode feels more like a future proof option.
Not surprising regarding Xbox One S performance. The performance gap between S and X is higher than 720p-1440p.
 

ImaLawy3r

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jun 6, 2019
619
I think the difference is the Xbox one and PS4 processors were out of date/poor when they launched in 2013.

The cpus in the next generation consoles are much more advanced.
Maybe. But I believe that won't change much in the next few years. The rate at which games are needing more and more power is getting ridiculous. (in a good way).
 

VFX_Veteran

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,003
Oooph poor Xbox One users, feel bad for them. PS4 Pro version ain't looking hot either, going by Giant Bomb's QL.

Then PC version ain't looking hot either, from the PC performance thread. Wait a while until more patches.

PC version is fine for me (i.e. 2080Ti). PC owners are spoiled and complain about 2-3fps dips. The game is a beast and really should be a next-gen title.
 

GrrImAFridge

ONE THOUSAND DOLLARYDOOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,675
Western Australia
PC version is fine for me (i.e. 2080Ti). PC owners are spoiled and complain about 2-3fps dips. The game is a beast and really should be a next-gen title.

Frame rate performance is fine, but stuttering is a common problem (in my case, I'd describe it as annoyingly frequent), and some people have inexplicably inconsistent load times. The extent to which stuttering is an issue varies (e.g. I've seen a few people say it's limited to cutscenes), so I wouldn't say the PC version should be avoided, but there's definitely an asterisk to be mindful of.
 
Last edited:
Oct 31, 2017
8,621
Summary:

- Gap between XBO and XBX is more significant than usual.
- Running on Unreal 4 (instead of EA's staple Frostbite)

- XBX offers 2 modes: Quality: 1440p/30 FPS and Performance: 1080p/Unlocked.
- Base XBO runs at 720p

- Minor glitches noticed throughout gives the game an unpolished look
- XBO has a lot more issues compared to X.
- Texture pop-in can occur on X as well but much more prevalent on XBO.
- Game straight up freezes for a few seconds regularly on XBO (loading issue)
- XBO also fails to load world areas in time if moving quickly between places

- XBX "Quality Mode" is near-locked 30 FPS with dips in cut-scenes in opening levels.
- In later areas during combat, frame rate does dip a bit but mostly stable 30 FPS through out the game.
- XBX "Performance Mode" hovers around 45~50 FPS with some lighter areas closer to 60 (but never a stable 60)
- Average is low enough that even using VRR displays don't make the game feel stable.

- XBO has a lot more frequent dips in starting areas.
- In later areas the game feels more sluggish, frame rate is in mid 20's for long stretches and the above issues compound them.

- Summary: XBX Quality Mode best way to play the game. Performance Mode feels more like a future proof option.

Thanks for this!
 

Quantza

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
641
To be blunt: I care less about how well a game looks or plays on a platform vs. platform basis and more about whether or not it runs well at all on the platform I own. Comparisons don't really matter to me, but I would prefer to be able to go into a game knowing it won't perform as badly as Control did on base PS4.

This time EA was the problem. In other cases...

...why should your platform be first, then?
You know they'd have to pick a first platform to study the game, then test with the other ones.

You'd either be waiting for all platforms to be checked and then pick out your one - will take longer.
Or you'll sometimes get unlucky.
I mean, DF could hold a regular poll to determine the most popular platform, but that would be slow anyway (and what if the majority of players don't play a certain game on PS4?).

An independent body should be paid to be reviewing games (for enforcement of standards), not just DF anyway.
So, I just don't think it's worth complaining about.
 

MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,490
Retire the base console, MS. It's just embarrassing at this point, the game freezes for SEVEN seconds while it's loading new assets.
 

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
8,634
Retire the base console, MS. It's just embarrassing at this point, the game freezes for SEVEN seconds while it's loading new assets.
To be fair the PS4 Pro also freezes for a couple of seconds which is inexcusable. Now it makes sense why games like God of War force you to climb so slowly while its loading assets.
 

VFX_Veteran

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,003
Frame rate performance is fine, but stuttering is a common problem (in my case, I'd describe it as annoyingly frequent), and some people have inexplicably inconsistent load times. The extent to which stuttering is an issue varies (e.g. I've seen a few people say it's limited to cutscenes), so I wouldn't say the PC version should be avoided, but there's definitely an asterisk to be mindful of.

Yea, I see the stuttering too, but I know what in the scenes is causing the hiccup. The sub-surface scattering on the skin is very computensive in this game. It's an incredible look but having whole body shots during cutscenes is going to rob FPS. Also, the forward rendering technique is being used for transparencies on particles, fire, sparks, leaves, lightsaber, grass, etc.. and that's playing havoc with the framerate. Typical expensive rendering techniques. Hair shader on the character is amazing and I love animation. It rivals Uncharted 4/AC animation, which is lovely.

The game is just meant for next-gen. Cyberpunk will be this way too.
 

icecold1983

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,243
would have been much more impressive visually on frostbite 3, but thats the price you pay for UE4 easier development.
 

Nzyme32

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,245
Why even bother doing a DF video if you only have one platform to analyze on? This seems too early.
Don't take it out on me. This is on the publisher.

Waiting longer to include PS4 would damage the chances of success for this video. I'd have loved to get both versions in there but it wasn't possible. That video will come later.
There are 2 platforms in this video.
We can then put out multiple videos - get information out early, not lose the huge amount of views we would otherwise miss, not overly burden the person making the video with too many platforms. Just because a video does not cover the platforms or the cross platform comparisons you want, does not make it "too early".

Sometimes I literally just cover a PC version. Does that make it "too early?"

Dark1x , Dictator you guys have the patience of saints.
Working your asses off to get this kind of content out Day 1 without even being able to receive an earlier copy of the game:
v8m1plD.jpg


Then having to put up with nonsense from these threads:
kXNcMRm.jpg


The rest of us lurking and mostly silent are extremely grateful for your efforts!
 

VFX_Veteran

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,003
would have been much more impressive visually on frostbite 3, but thats the price you pay for UE4 easier development.

It might have run better, but I don't think it would visually have looked more impressive. The entire asset library seems to be film quality (ala SW:1313) so it wouldn't matter what engine it runs on -- it would look good.
 

VFX_Veteran

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,003
We now know why SW:1313 was way ahead of it's time..especially for this generation..


Very similar assets, textures, particles, etc.. to Jedi Fallen. If JF is running base consoles slow and with several hiccups, it would've been a nightmare early on in the generation (i.e. no other alternative to play on better hardware since mid-gen wasn't released yet). Even PCs would have had problems back in 2013.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
We now know why SW:1313 was way ahead of it's time..especially for this generation..


Very similar assets, textures, particles, etc.. to Jedi Fallen. If JF is running base consoles slow and with several hiccups, it would've been a nightmare early on in the generation (i.e. no other alternative to play on better hardware since mid-gen wasn't released yet). Even PCs would have had problems back in 2013.

I think 1313 looks better in some ways, it would be cool if digital foundry did a comparison between 1313 and fallen order
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,192
UK
Dark1x , Dictator you guys have the patience of saints.
Working your asses off to get this kind of content out Day 1 without even being able to receive an earlier copy of the game:
v8m1plD.jpg


Then having to put up with nonsense from these threads:
kXNcMRm.jpg


The rest of us lurking and mostly silent are extremely grateful for your efforts!
Haha

John does great and very fast work, along with rest of Digital Foundry team. Even with disclaimer, people still complain so can't win with them, don't bother lol
 

VFX_Veteran

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,003
I think 1313 looks better in some ways, it would be cool if digital foundry did a comparison between 1313 and fallen order

What ways? I see things missing in 1313 than in Fallen Order which is very very important visually (i.e. dynamic AO is missing, no good skin shader in the cutscenes and low polys also)

Agreed about DF doing a comparison. That would be awesome!