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Star Trek TNG: Would you kill the Crystalline Entity if given the chance?

Would you kill the Crystalline Entity?

  • Yes

    Votes: 206 64.8%

  • No

    Votes: 90 28.3%

  • Other(explain)

    Votes: 29 9.1%
  • Total voters
    318
Dark Knight

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,263
I'm rewatching that Next Gen episode where they're studying the Crystalline Entity and it's blowing my mind how stupid Picard's argument is in terms of not flat out annihilating the Entity when he has the chance. The thing eats entire planets worth of thinking, feeling people!!!!

Picard: "Sperm whales eat trillions of cuttlefish, how can we be mad at Entity for doing something similar?" (paraphrased)

How is Picard allowed to be captain after such a mind-numbingly dumb decision?
 
Volimar

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,325
They were making strides in being able to communicate with it. Perhaps they could have found an alternative way to feed it. You don't annihilate it the first chance you get. Not when your charter is to seek out new life.
 
Volimar

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,325
Dark Knight said:
But... why?! It's already killed likely trillions!
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It's a novel and perhaps unique form of life. It would go against everything the Federation stands for to not at least try to find a way to avoid further bloodshed.

My answer would be "Yes, if you have to. But I would try to find alternatives first."
 

B.K.

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,020
Of course. Anyone who doesn't is an idiot and any future deaths are on their hands.
 
Traxus

Traxus

Spirit Tamer
Member
Jan 2, 2018
5,188
Because "To seek out new life, and new civilizations, and annihalate them" is really not as catchy.
 
thetrin

thetrin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,621
Atlanta, GA
Dark Knight said:
I'm rewatching that Next Gen episode where they're studying the Crystalline Entity and it's blowing my mind how stupid Picard's argument is in terms of not flat out annihilating the Entity when he has the chance. The thing eats entire planets worth of thinking, feeling people!!!!

Picard: "Sperm whales eat trillions of cuttlefish, how can we be mad at Entity for doing something similar?" (paraphrased)

How is Picard allowed to be captain after such a mind-numbingly dumb decision?
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Because the answer to every problem isn't "KILL IT KILL IT KILL IT!"

The Federation would've called Picard's actions in line with Federation protocol.
 
Exist 2 Inspire

Exist 2 Inspire

Member
Apr 19, 2018
3,958
Germany
I mean Picard is at least consistent with stuff like this, he had the chance to destroy the Borg as well and didn't. I agree with him on both occasions.
 
GraphicViolets

GraphicViolets

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
985
In stellaris i would use it as a buffer between me and the next empire. i would leave it there for as long as possible
 
OP
OP
Dark Knight

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,263
thetrin said:
Because the answer to every problem isn't "KILL IT KILL IT KILL IT!"

The Federation would've called Picard's actions in line with Federation protocol.
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Then the Federation is flawed. When do they put their foot down? How many more civilizations need to be eradicated simply because the Entity isn't picking up the phone?
Exist 2 Inspire said:
I mean Picard is at least consistent with stuff like this, he had the chance to destroy the Borg as well and didn't. I agree with him on both occasions.
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The Borg are a way more nuanced case and I might agree there.
 
CommandThrower

CommandThrower

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,132
Picard treats killing the Crystalline Entity as a last resort, so he is willing to kill it if the need arises.

That said, his approach of trying to communicate first is the best approach. It would be one thing if the Entity itself was malicious in it's actions, but it's not. It's not looking to destroy planets full of life just for laughs, it's trying to sustain itself. It's not just gonna starve itself to death.


So, yes. Try and find an alternative to just outright killing it. If that fails, then the Entity will have to go.
 
thetrin

thetrin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,621
Atlanta, GA
Dark Knight said:
Then the Federation is flawed. When do they put their foot down? How many more civilizations need to be eradicated simply because the Entity isn't picking up the phone?

The Borg are a way more nuanced case and I might agree there.
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There are still measures they could consider between "communication" and "extinction agenda". They could find a way to draw it away from populated space. They could find a way to trap it in a part of space with ample resources for it to survive. They could warp it into the Delta quadrant and forget about it.

As far as Picard was aware, it was the only one of its kind. It's a much harder decision to make when you're talking about eradicating the only one of its kind.

CommandThrower said:
Picard treats killing the Crystalline Entity as a last resort, so he is willing to kill it if the need arises.

That said, his approach of trying to communicate first is the best approach. It would be one thing if the Entity itself was malicious in it's actions, but it's not. It's not looking to destroy planets full of life just for laughs, it's trying to sustain itself. It's not just gonna starve itself to death.


So, yes. Try and find an alternative to just outright killing it. If that fails, then the Entity will have to go.
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Yeah, this is point. Killing it isn't out of the question, but the Federation is a little more enlightened than we are. They don't just go around killing anything that is immediately threatening, but still misunderstood.
 
DrForester

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,645
It's basically Galctus.

Was Squirrel Girl right to send Galactus to a planet of acorns rather than kill him outright? I think so.
 
OP
OP
Dark Knight

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,263
CommandThrower said:
So, yes. Try and find an alternative to just outright killing it. If that fails, then the Entity will have to go.
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I'm of the opinion that not all life is sacred simply because it's alive. The entity is a flawed existence if it needs to rip up civilizations to feed and I don't think it's worthy of a chance at reformation.
 
thetrin

thetrin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,621
Atlanta, GA
Dark Knight said:
I'm of the opinion that not all life is sacred simply because it's alive. The entity is a flawed existence if it needs to rip up civilizations to feed and I don't think it's worthy of a chance at reformation.
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Who are we to draw the line? It's all relative. We slaughter creatures by the million just so our food tastes delicious. We are not Gods, and neither is the Federation. That is Picard's point. It has just as much right to exist as we do.
 
OP
OP
Dark Knight

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,263
thetrin said:
Who are we to draw the line? It's all relative..................

We are not Gods
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I agree that it's relative, and to that point our relationship to it and respect of it is subjective, meaning it's in the best interest of fellow innocent, carbon-based, sentient, but powerless life, to get rid of it.
 
Tukarrs

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,814
If they could communicate with it, there's a chance it could stop killing. They could potentially create an alternate form of sustenance for it.

If it remains hostile, then sure, defend yourselves.
 
OP
OP
Dark Knight

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,263
thetrin

thetrin

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Oct 26, 2017
7,621
Atlanta, GA
B.K. said:
They aren't sentient, intelligent creatures, though. They're stupid animals. There's a big difference between humans and livestock.
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You don't know what sentient means.

Dark Knight said:
I agree that it's relative, and to that point our relationship to it and respect of it is subjective, meaning it's in the best interest of fellow innocent, carbon-based, sentient, but powerless life, to get rid of it.
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Before trying LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE?

Why do you have such a murder boner?

What if there was an alien coalition that had decided that our rampant pollution, eco system eradication and resource consumption was a threat to life in the galaxy? If they decided to just atomize us instead of trying to come to some sort of understanding first, you'd consider them bloodthirsty monsters. But yo, it's okay if we do it?
 
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Tavernade

Tavernade

Tavernade
Moderator
Sep 18, 2018
8,617
thetrin said:
Who are we to draw the line? It's all relative. We slaughter creatures by the million just so our food tastes delicious. We are not Gods, and neither is the Federation. That is Picard's point. It has just as much right to exist as we do.
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Which is fair, but I imagine the Federation doesn't really kill animals for meat, considering replicators + we have fake meat in modern times (unless there's an episode I forgot about hog farms?).

I agree that it was fine to try and communicate with it before having to kill it, just in case there was another way. However if one creature needs that much death to subsist maybe it's not worth keeping around.
 
thetrin

thetrin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,621
Atlanta, GA
SteveWinwood said:
what does that have to do with anything

is killing it going to bring them back?

or are you asking for picard to deal out some sort of space justice
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They're asking Picard to deal out Cowboy Space Justice.

Tavernade said:
Which is fair, but I imagine the Federation doesn't really kill animals for meat, considering replicators + we have fake meat in modern times (unless there's an episode I forgot about hog farms?).

I agree that it was fine to try and communicate with it before having to kill it, just in case there was another way. However if one creature needs that much death to subsist maybe it's not worth keeping around.
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Well I was more talking about our current situation, rather than the Federation's situation, but yeah, that is a fair point.

On your second point, we barely know anything about the entity in that episode, and I guess that is kind of the point. Despite knowing nothing, trying nothing, and positing very little, the professor jumps to "KILL IT!!"

Which, evidenced by this thread, seems to be a disappointingly common conclusion.
 
JediOrderPizza

JediOrderPizza

Member
Nov 24, 2020
1,537
Tampa, Fl
Yep and fuck tuvix as well.

e3KaKTY.gif
 
Dead Man Typing

Dead Man Typing

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,831
I voted yes because I'd be willing to destroy it if there was no other solution.

Which is what Picard would have done. I don't remember their earlier interactions with the entity clearly, but did they try to kill it in the episode with Lore? Maybe their phasers were ineffective?

I do remember that the method they used to talk to it was the method the scientist lady used to kill it. Then Data told her that her son would be disappointed by her actions.
 
Tavernade

Tavernade

Tavernade
Moderator
Sep 18, 2018
8,617
BryGuy said:
Yep and fuck tuvix as well.

e3KaKTY.gif
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This one seems harder to judge, since either way is murder.

As an aside, I do wonder how much different Trek would be (in total and in fan views) if Picard really had killed the Borg that one time. Hopefully there still would have been at least one good TNG movie.
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
You probably hate Galactus, too, OP.

Probably one of those types that sides with Reed fucking Richards.
 
EntelechyFuff

EntelechyFuff

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Nov 19, 2019
10,133
I refuse to refer to this creature as anything other than its original name, Giant Crystal Form.
 
Cheerilee

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
The Crystalline Entity eats grass and trees (among other things). It clearly didn't know that people were sentient beings, capable of thought and communication (not until Picard figured out how to talk to it).

After talking to it, it might totally agree to go full vegan, because it likes talking to people and doesn't want to eat things that it can talk to.

Starfleet could dump a bunch of grass seed on a dead planet, wait for it to grow, collect the seeds, and then toss the collected seeds on dead planet B to grow while the Entity nom noms on the useless "life" (literally just grass), while chatting with Starfleet about the secrets of the universe. Rinse and repeat.

You might willfully eat more sentient life than the Crystalline Entity, and yet you're calling for it's murder.
 
BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,949
Volimar said:
They were making strides in being able to communicate with it. Perhaps they could have found an alternative way to feed it. You don't annihilate it the first chance you get. Not when your charter is to seek out new life.
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I'm surprised at the numbers of yes responses. None of y'all would make it into Starfleet Academy. The Crystalline Entity doesn't seem to be willingly killing people, it's just eating food. It has no idea these are sentient creatures it shouldn't eat. Picard and the Enterprise manage to establish a line of communication, if they had managed to get it to stop sucking up planets with sentient life they could have figured out other ways to feed it.

It's a lifeform, an intelligent one at that. It has every right to live as anyone else and needlessly killing it is wrong.
 
OP
OP
Dark Knight

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,263
Cheerilee said:
The Crystalline Entity eats grass and trees (among other things). It clearly didn't know that people were sentient beings, capable of thought and communication (not until Picard figured out how to talk to it).
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I'd argue that this in itself is problematic. These planets go through eons of natural evolution developing unique life of all types(even if just plants) and it's okay for some lumbering behemoth of a silicon monster to just pass by and eat it all carte blanche in one swipe, all while producing nothing of substance in return? If you let this thing run rampant forever its end game is one day to devour all life in the universe just to keep living. And who knows, maybe it even grows bigger as it eats so it requires more and more to sustain its form.

I'd posit that allowing this thing to exist is a crime against nature if you have the ability to take it out. It's in the best interest of the universe from a utilitarian perspective to annihilate it.
 
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