Next week got you, we will have more exciting interiors of Rios' ship and an FBI holding cell for 42 minutes...
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Star Trek: Picard - Season 2 | Back to the Qture
- Thread starter Spectromixer
- Start date
- OT
Next week got you, we will have more exciting interiors of Rios' ship and an FBI holding cell for 42 minutes...
Speaking of La Sirena, I was kind of worried for a moment when he beamed the doctor and her kid to his ship that this was still technically the Confederation version of his ship, and they were going to see something that made them think he was some horrible person.
Part of me is kind of annoyed at all the characters poking at Picard for his preference towards solitude. I expected a progressive and enlightened society to be accepting of people who simply prefers solitude. The way this show is implying is that clearly that is wrong. Now it looks like there is going to be an examination of some of Picard's past traumas which I guess is supposed to "liberate" him? Traumas or no traumas, I really don't like the narrative that a solitude Picard needs "fixing", which is what I feel is what this show is implying. Would love to hear what others here think about this though.
Also, it's kind of really weird to see a Borg queen sitting on a sofa or whatever like that. What a weird season so far!
Also, it's kind of really weird to see a Borg queen sitting on a sofa or whatever like that. What a weird season so far!
I mean…isn't there a dead half a Borg Queen and a dead Elnor in drawers there?
What the hell were they trying to say about the bottle, that just sounded completely ridiculous.
This episode was really bad. They need to focus, yeesh.
This episode was really bad. They need to focus, yeesh.
Main threads
- What caused the anomaly?
- Who were the voices and why were they shouting Picard?
- Who is the future Borg Queen (lol)
- Avoid Totalitarian timeline
- Q: Why he's doing this + What's wrong with Q?
- Soong (probably done for S2 but who knows)
- Something still to do with Picards mum and dad
- Picards ancestor space traveller (likely done)
- Jurati, endorphins and the Borg Queen
Secondary
- Raffi and Sevens romance?
- Rio's and his romance
- get back to the future
- Offer explaination why the Watcher looks like Laris outside of 'ancestor'?
- Presumably fixing the timeline resurrects Elnor?
- Guinan
They have approximately 2hours 20minutes remaining with approx 5 hours 30 minutes of story already told.
That feels a good time to be not introducing new subplots where Picard gets arrested by the FBI
- What caused the anomaly?
- Who were the voices and why were they shouting Picard?
- Who is the future Borg Queen (lol)
- Avoid Totalitarian timeline
- Q: Why he's doing this + What's wrong with Q?
- Soong (probably done for S2 but who knows)
- Something still to do with Picards mum and dad
- Picards ancestor space traveller (likely done)
- Jurati, endorphins and the Borg Queen
Secondary
- Raffi and Sevens romance?
- Rio's and his romance
- get back to the future
- Offer explaination why the Watcher looks like Laris outside of 'ancestor'?
- Presumably fixing the timeline resurrects Elnor?
- Guinan
They have approximately 2hours 20minutes remaining with approx 5 hours 30 minutes of story already told.
That feels a good time to be not introducing new subplots where Picard gets arrested by the FBI
Callis was great. Was good seeing him again; liked the conversation he had with Picard. A bit trite that, sure, and could have added more meaning to the arc of this particular season, but it wasn't bad. (My wife was like "who's this cutie"? LOL.)
This season does seem all over the place. But IMO, still better than S1, so far. Wish we got more Q.
This season does seem all over the place. But IMO, still better than S1, so far. Wish we got more Q.
For sure they couldn't just inject pure KSM into Star Trek, but I think it could definitely use a shot. TNG had some similar qualities, in that it portrayed scientists (and they mentioned/joked a lot about going to conferences even) as heroes and at least, if not vaguely at times, alluded to a heightened project and aspiration for humanity. It was probably also the least space opera out of all of the series, as it had numerous episodes that were just about the ideas of things, whether technology or the nature of non human life and so on.
I feel like Star Trek hasn't been relevant in a long time and the current era isn't really doing anything to help that, even if they're successful enough viewership wise. It would be cool if sci-fi television could penetrate a wider cultural outlook but it almost seems as if it's almost totally back in the schlocky zone. Like people see anything space based as pew pew space magic and ship battles or something. I don't know. Like maybe Westworld was the last sci-fi series to really penetrate the consciousness of a wider culture, before it floundered anyways. Other more 'serious' affairs like the Expanse haven't really travelled too far outside of fan circles, it seems.
Even tonally or stylistically I think Star Trek could do a lot with a different approach. Like What would a Villeneuve take on Star Trek be like? Or what if there was a Star Trek that took a multi tiered approach to world building like The Wire.
I was thinking about this as well. Star Trek Picard has this neurotypical edge that has been fairly aggravating. In the first season it was the stuff with mortality and with Data and how it basically implied that a human must absolutely be one way and not another to actually be human. Shades of neurotypical bias there.
I feel the same with this stuff with Picard's solitude. It's had me asking 'so what if he is a more solitary person?' Why does that need to be fixed? In a sci-fi world where difference is supposed to be accepted and appreciated I don't think it serves well to single out a character for not aligning properly, socially. I think TNG was much better at portraying the qualities and nuances of Picard's psychology. He was stoic and solitary, but empathic and understanding. Even though he was somewhat lonely at times, he also had a rich personal life to himself, being a very cultured individual. None of that really exists in STP.
The writing in this show is just so shockingly bad and so disjointed. There's no focus and it feels like it's written by 5 different people with little to no communication between them.
Absolutely
My memory is fuzzy if the episode is revered or liked at all, but what about the TNG episode where Picard goes on holiday. He just wants to read his book. That's all he wants to do. To be left in peace. But slowly he meets that woman and gets involved in a one-off episode that's like an Indiana Jones plot. He gets involved because he subtlely can't resist 'the puzzle' or a damsel in distress
That episode spoke far more deeply to me about his psychology than literally getting him front of a virtual father / therapy session ever could
Boring and dull episode. Complete waste of James Callis.
On plus for the episode. I did have a big grin on my face when Rios did the "I only work in outer space" bit.
Continuity note. With this whole thing about exploringPatrick Stewart's Picard's mind, has there even been a passing mention that he had an abusive older Brother, or have they really just completely ignored Robert's existence?
On plus for the episode. I did have a big grin on my face when Rios did the "I only work in outer space" bit.
Continuity note. With this whole thing about exploring
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Episode was fine. I do agree the writers just don't know what they are doing. And then they continue introducing new subplots while they haven't solved what they have at hand. It is infuriating how they continue dropping the ball.
Also, come on. We had an entire series and 4 movies to learn about Picard's past. Why we need to waste our time in an already established character and forget the new ones introduced in this series. Instead of Picard, this should have been Jurati's episode. This could explain why she was so eager to let the Borg Queen assimilate her. Or even better, develop Space Legolas instead of killing him in the alternate timeline.
Going to continue watching this, but yeah, this isn't good. Not offensively bad as the first season, though. Not having hopes with the TNG cast reunion. Who might they kill later? Worf? Do another Shades of Gray for Picard?
Also, come on. We had an entire series and 4 movies to learn about Picard's past. Why we need to waste our time in an already established character and forget the new ones introduced in this series. Instead of Picard, this should have been Jurati's episode. This could explain why she was so eager to let the Borg Queen assimilate her. Or even better, develop Space Legolas instead of killing him in the alternate timeline.
Going to continue watching this, but yeah, this isn't good. Not offensively bad as the first season, though. Not having hopes with the TNG cast reunion. Who might they kill later? Worf? Do another Shades of Gray for Picard?
It does seem so far to ignore he had a brother. It seems like he compartmentalized that His Father was the bad monster who locked up his mother and abused her. Only for him to realize his Mother had deep mental illness and his father was doing all he could to try and protect and keep her safe,
In one of the early flashbacks establishing Picard chilling alone with his mother, it's mentioned his brother's... at boarding school was it? So he's not forgotten but is being conveniently ignored as not being relevant to the specific timeframe that the flashbacks are occurring at.
I've been thinking about this as well. Robert was the older brother, but from what we know about him, he never really left the winery. It does seem like Picard had similar tensions with both Robert and Maurice, in that he never really understood either of them. At least he figured out his brother a bit before he died.
I do feel that many of the complaints about this episode are valid, even though I mostly enjoyed it. We're getting a dive into Picard's past and psychology makeup? Fine…but when we did that several times during the course of TNG ("Family", "Tapestry", "All Good Things", among others), stuff like this needs to feel way more connected to those touchstone episode for the character. It can't just be Easter eggs or characters that happen to share the same names. Without those connections, it just kind of feels like we're watching a different character, played by the same actor with similar, but not the same traits.
There's another promo, and I'm speculating but it's going in a different direction than you might expect.
Also, Q appearing in VR. Really?
The kid looking at the Vulcans at the lake. So he's the FBI agent?
I don't think it's a Carbon Creek reference as the actor would have been born in the 60s.
I don't think it's a Carbon Creek reference as the actor would have been born in the 60s.
Also, Q appearing in VR. Really?
Somehow Google Glass technology got uglier. lol
It seems like another dull episode though. I guess they're shooting their shot in the finale.
It seems like another dull episode though. I guess they're shooting their shot in the finale.
If it is following the Disco S4 model, that's probably a good thing for me; I liked the last two episodes and thought it was the strongest Discovery season closer by a wide margin. Picard, by contrast, completely lost me at the end of season 1, so much so that I was pretty sure I was going to skip the rest of the show entirely until people had rave reviews for the first episode of this season.
I can't believe this show is actually worse than the last season of discovery...I mean wow..just how. It's painful watching. How are these shows so bad bad lately..budget constraints? Crappy show runners ?
I'm still holding out hope for the pike series
I'm still holding out hope for the pike series
The one perplexing thing to me is that they're actually reusing a subplot they LITERALLY just did a few episodes ago: getting captured by the authorities.
I mean, there's nothing wrong with doing something like this; it shows how the crew have to keep a low profile and not arouse the attention of anyone that will pry into their identities. Easy drama. But to have Picard get captured by the FBI immediately after we JUST rescued Rios from the border cops is ridiculous. Isn't that what a writer's room is for? To catch redundancies like this?
I mean, there's nothing wrong with doing something like this; it shows how the crew have to keep a low profile and not arouse the attention of anyone that will pry into their identities. Easy drama. But to have Picard get captured by the FBI immediately after we JUST rescued Rios from the border cops is ridiculous. Isn't that what a writer's room is for? To catch redundancies like this?
I'm one of those weirdos who liked the first season up until they botched the ending and while I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here that they have an ace up their sleeves to resolve this mess I feel a bit lost at the moment.
I think either the introduction of what appears to be another key character so late in the season and the puzzling revelation that 2024 Orla Brady is Laris' ancestor soured me on this show. At this point I would probably just skip to the last episode if I could. It doesn't help that they are doing nothing with the main crew aside from Jurati and Picard.
Dare I say it, I think I enjoyed the first season more.
I think either the introduction of what appears to be another key character so late in the season and the puzzling revelation that 2024 Orla Brady is Laris' ancestor soured me on this show. At this point I would probably just skip to the last episode if I could. It doesn't help that they are doing nothing with the main crew aside from Jurati and Picard.
Dare I say it, I think I enjoyed the first season more.
I hadn't seen that before, nice. Juratti assimilates the Q confirmed.
I'm totally serious. They filmed it 25 years ago hence the old footage above :P
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Voyager had one good Borg episode, perhaps not coincidentally it had nothing to do with the Queen or larger collective. It was 'Survival Instinct', where they encountered a trio of former Borg that were still linked but only with each other. I suppose it also could have had something to do with it being one of the two episodes Ronald D Moore wrote.
The Q stuff on Voyager was indeed dumb and bad though.
I enjoy shitting on Voyager as much as anyone but it had plenty of good Borg episodes. The Scorpion two-parter and Dark Frontier are all entertaining watches, let alone all the ones that were more Borg adjacent, like Infinite Regress or Imperfection.
I'm not so much into Dark Frontier because I'm just not that into the Queen as an idea or character. The humanized avatar of an otherwise completely alien collective sort of made them a little too much like just another faction among others. Scorpion I forgot weirdly and it wasn't too bad. Also, the Unimatrix Zero two parter was quite good, but it was less straightforward Borg and more writing around the edges of what being Borg meant. These adjacent episodes were what Voyager did well with the Borg, because they didn't focus too much on trying to make the Borg as an alien intelligence comprehensible, but more worked on how humans tried to understand their experiences with the Borg. I guess Dark Frontier had some of that too, but I don't know, the Borg Queen kind of made it a little dull to me.
Oddly enough, I don't mind the Queen stuff in Picard as much, because they're just going full cheesy with it and she's become even more of a movie monster than anything resembling part of sophisticated alien intelligence. If they're not even going to try anymore with doing anything actually interesting with the Borg (the well's a little dry anyways) then I'm more fine when they just make them hammy monsters. Voyager straddled the line sometimes a little too much for my liking, or had a mix of the goofy stuff and the more thoughtful stuff.
It's an interesting aspect of Star Trek over the years - how different alien species are depicted and how some of them vacillate more than others between being totally cheesy and then more complex and thoughtful. On one hand you get the Borg and the Klingons who have been on both sides of that, and then you have species like the Cardassians and Bajorans who are pretty much only depicted with a more tempered, serious approach.
The one where the Q wants to die? I felt tt was really thoughtless and silly. I don't like it when writers try to humanize aliens too much by applying human existentialism or other distinctly human psychology. I don't think an attempt should even really be made to 'understand' the Q very much, because they work better as something otherwise unfathomable. When Picard recently said last episode that he 'used to think Q was unknowable', I thought this towed a similar line of thinking - that human understanding can surmount anything it comes across, or the indomitability of the humanistic spirit. To me, Q in TNG was an interesting character because there was always this abyss between him (it) and what a human was capable of connecting with. The episode 'Where Silence has Lease' portrayed this well, even though the entity in question wasn't Q. The entity, Nagilum, and Picard were only able to come to a vague connection, in that they each acknowledged the nature of intelligence to be curious. But the gulf between Nagilum and humanity was vast and it was better that this was left off as something to never be bridged. In similar regards, I think trying to apply human psychology to an immortal, omnipotent being doesn't even really make sense. Something to ask of a Q if its portrayed as suicidal is 'why?'. Why would it think that way? I don't think that question can sufficiently be answered because we as humans can not fathom what it means or is to be an infinite, omnipotent being that doesn't exist in time the way we experience it. Or like there's other questions there - why could the Q simply not snap their fingers and make themselves not feel suicidally bored anymore? What about their being would prevent that from happening? Why should the Q even have a sense of individuality as humans do? We only have that sense of ourselves because of our particular evolution, so to expect something that exists in a completely different and otherwise unknowable to be like us is a little wrong headed. If the Q don't even exist in linear time, then can they even stop existing? In "All Good Things...' Q enabling Picard to experience non linear time was like an extremely introductory measure sort of, like Q was ultimately communicating some part of its being by showing Picard what it would be like for a human to experience a consciousness unbound in time.
That episode didn't even try to think about all the questions that arise from considering what being a Q would actually mean. It was just 'Hey I bet an immortal being would get sick of it at some point and want to die right? Just like us humans'. It's a huge assumption about intelligence, that if not limited by mortality it would become bored. These assumptions can only come from our own parochial understandings of what it is to be intelligent and I don't think it should be projected too much onto depictions of something so alien in being, like an omnipotent, infinite intelligence.
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Now I understand why some people don't want to read forums about Star Trek, there are many valid criticisms, but there are also many people who act as if the TV show somehow became a life form and went into their homes and beat their families with the scripts.
Q, like the Borg, suffer the more you try to build out the lore because they turn from being concepts into something more.
Like I'm sure no one thought about how the El Aurians and Q would have been in conflict or what that even means other than the fact that Guinan hates this particular Q when they wrote I, Borg. That turned into some kind of peace treaty whose moment in time is trapped in a magic lamp.
In a way it'd be like if someone actually sat down and tried to build out the lore of the Prophets. But since everyone hates DS9, we don't have to worry about anyone doing that I suppose. lol
Like I'm sure no one thought about how the El Aurians and Q would have been in conflict or what that even means other than the fact that Guinan hates this particular Q when they wrote I, Borg. That turned into some kind of peace treaty whose moment in time is trapped in a magic lamp.
In a way it'd be like if someone actually sat down and tried to build out the lore of the Prophets. But since everyone hates DS9, we don't have to worry about anyone doing that I suppose. lol
Totally, and unfortunately I feel this happens a lot in Sci-Fi as writers come to confuse and conflate the broad throwaway strokes of world building with the specifics of any given episodic story
YMMV here but I always think of Doctor Who or the Terminator with this example. When the concept of 'the Time War' or 'Future War' respectively was brought in, it could be whatever the writers wanted it to be to hint at and show the depth, pain and dark days of the Doctor/Kyle Reese/insert main character here. It stokes the imagination of the audience. What incredible sights they must have been...
I literally don't need to see the actual 'war', with a stuffy high council of Gallifrey et al or soldiers or generals taking strategic points of value and living through it. At that point you go from imaginative to literal, and that's a problem.
It's the fear of the unknown and terror each audience member reads into it that gives it its narrative power
Just finished the most recent episode and this was the first one of the season I didn't like at all. While this was a very "Star Trek trapped in the head" episode I didn't feel like we needed this. It was a huge waste of time, and Picard could have learned he was a big dumb ass with childhood trauma some other, much shorter way. I figured his parents had a bad relationship during TNG...
One huge positive, in my mind Dutch Wagenbach exists in the Star Trek universe. This makes the events of The Shield cannon, and therefore the best Star Trek series.
One huge positive, in my mind Dutch Wagenbach exists in the Star Trek universe. This makes the events of The Shield cannon, and therefore the best Star Trek series.
One question I'm pretty sure will never get answered now: how DID the Confederation beat the Borg? We're just supposed to assume that the thing holding us back from utterly annihilating them in the main timeline, never mind narrowly avoiding being completely assimilated, is that humans were too nice? I think that's one thing that makes the Borg Queen stuff more annoying to me: this one got beat by fascist humans. How strong could she actually be if that's all it's took?
I agree and I also think a lot of stories are somewhat challenging, if not outright impossible, to do competently. So leaving shit unsaid isn't just letting the audience's imagination put in work but it also keeps you from putting your foot in your mouth.
Like now I'm thinking how Guinan even makes it 10 seconds without experiencing time sickness. That shit never needed to be introduced. How the fuck, in the Trek Universe with all of it's time travel, are Guinan's people just not extinct from that?
I understand the concept of a species aiming to preserve their history and the broad strokes of their timeline, I can imagine civilizations having a temporal war if time travel were possible and those people having an opinion on what the "correct" timeline is.
What I don't understand is the idea of there being a universal correct timeline. Obviously any time travel at all is altering the time line even if it's just limited to disturbing some air molecules or swatting a mosquito, I don't see why the universe would care about the broad strokes of human history playing out correctly but not little changes. Now we're talking some kind of universal will or some shit.
So with all the time travel shenanigans Guinan should be a fucking wreck 24/7.
They just write themselves into stupid corners.
Though maybe her species being mostly bed ridden with time sickness is how the Borg tore through her people so easily.
But really, there likely can't be a good reason a Q could fear an El Aurian. It's gotta be impossible to come up with a believable reason that El Aurians could threaten a Q but get stomped by the Borg. So don't even try. Leave it alone.
Janeway and Picard could have both eliminated the Borg so it's not really that weird
The Confederation would have invented stronger conventional weapons, and wouldn't be afraid to use biological and technological warfare, so it's entirely possible that they had an easier time against the Borg than our vanilla Star Trek crew's. They'd also have the strength of all the conquered worlds which would add to their military might.
We don't need an explanation because a more violent "Federation" would be more dangerous to all the species we see them encounter on a regular basis.
Are you talking about here where people critically analyze the media they consume and aren't required to lavish praise on easily digestible television just because?
Enjoyed the beginning of the season but it has fallen apart quite hard for me. So many subplots that only seem to exist to stretch time. I want to get to the big questions regarding Q and I want to know what the Borg Queen is up to. The Picard childhood stuff doesn't really do too much for me TBH. And the FBI, really, something like that again? Not a fan of Kurtzman's Trek in general for the most part.
As some people said, the plot in this season would have been a great two-parter or movie back in the day, but it really doesn't offer enough for 10 full episodes.
As some people said, the plot in this season would have been a great two-parter or movie back in the day, but it really doesn't offer enough for 10 full episodes.
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Stewart had been very vocal about how involved he is in the plot and themes for this show, it's basically the only reason he came back, hating and blaming Kurtzman is just lazy
While we know Confederation Picard is a warmonger, me thinks Sisko would be even worse than Confederacy Picard. I mean, in the prime timeline dude didn't have qualms poisoning planets controlled by the Maquis. Who know how worse Confederacy Sisko would be.