You're going to get an Inception episode with 20+ more shots of young Picard reaching out for his mother and you're going to like it.
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Star Trek: Picard - Season 2 | Back to the Qture
- Thread starter Spectromixer
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You're going to get an Inception episode with 20+ more shots of young Picard reaching out for his mother and you're going to like it.
People seem to forget he's not exactly in a android body. He's in a "golem" they even stated last season it would only give him as many years as he would have had without his brain condition.
The implication has always been that its basically a Synthezoid, like Vision. He has organs, blood, etc. They are just synthetic instead of organic.
It is often forgotten that Data did have to breathe, had a circulatory system, had hair that grew, etc. It wasn't until the movies that they started treating him like he was indestructible.
Also the doctor did call out that there was something off about his physiology.
The implication has always been that its basically a Synthezoid, like Vision. He has organs, blood, etc. They are just synthetic instead of organic.
It is often forgotten that Data did have to breathe, had a circulatory system, had hair that grew, etc. It wasn't until the movies that they started treating him like he was indestructible.
Also the doctor did call out that there was something off about his physiology.
I understand what the script says happens, I think its very poorly written. Introducing a brain condition in season 1 that's going to kill him so that at the end of the season it can get cured by downloading his brain into a new body that is identical to his old body in every respect except his brain isn't sick anymore is just...pointless? Maybe it works if the arc through that season of Picard giving up on life is stronger, but it's not, so it feels like another cool idea thrown at the wall that the writers have no interest in actually using. They just have plot ideas that they like, and whenever it runs into something they did previously they just sort of run roughshod over their own work to "keep the story moving"
🤷♂️
You realize that was a key plot of All Good Things, the series finale of TNG right?
Picard continues that storyline.
Irumodic Syndrome
Irumodic Syndrome was a degenerative neurological disorder that caused deterioration of the synaptic pathways. The condition caused confusion, delusions, and eventually death. It could take several years to develop and several more before it proved deadly. The treatment of choice in 2370 was...
memory-alpha.fandom.com
I took the point of the golem body to be a "Picard couldn't save Data, Picard protects Data's legacy, Data's legacy saves Picard" sort of thing. It also allowed them to give (part of) Data a much more dignified send-off than he got in Nemesis, with that beautiful scene of him being switched off for the final time, and I personally will forgive any number of wonky plot turns for a moment like that.
You think that's how they'll bring Data back in season 3? Something to do with pieces of data being in Picards synth body?
You realize that was a key plot of All Good Things, the series finale of TNG right?
Picard continues that storyline.
Irumodic Syndrome
Irumodic Syndrome was a degenerative neurological disorder that caused deterioration of the synaptic pathways. The condition caused confusion, delusions, and eventually death. It could take several years to develop and several more before it proved deadly. The treatment of choice in 2370 was...
I mean yeah you're correct, all this stuff is on the page, this is just one of the worst dramatized shows I've seen in the last decade. Like I mentioned above, I'm rewatching Enterprise S4 in parallel to this and its striking the degree to which that show, which represents, quite frankly, a sort of mediocre tier of mid-2000s sci-fi TV writing, still has some basic competence around constructing plots that derive from character motivations and pay off thematically than whatever Picard is trying to do. There's just so much missing, this show feels like watching the world's longest highlight reel sometimes
I really, really…and I mean REALLY…hope that they're not intending to bring back Data again. I could see them doing some sort of mind meld/memory shenanigans to give us a scene between Geordi and Data that should have happened in Season 1, but my god. If next season is Star Trek: Picard III: The Search for Data, I might just turn over my coffee table, which would be a big mess, because there is a lot of junk on it.
Seriously. Data is dead. Twice. I get why Brent Spiner would be involved in next season, but holy shit…not as Data.
That was actually one of the scenes I was thinking about when I wrote my post. Data even points out that he was lucky where he got hit the other wise it would have damaged him more and potentially killed him.🤷♂️
It really is galling how much time this show wastes on extremely frivolous, incoherent scenes. Like what the fuck was that whole party infiltration stuff.
And then for it all to culminate with Picard imparting the wisdom of... HEY JUST HANG IN THERE, RENEE!! THE LIGHT!! LOOK AT THE LIGHT!!!
It's just all so trite.
And then for it all to culminate with Picard imparting the wisdom of... HEY JUST HANG IN THERE, RENEE!! THE LIGHT!! LOOK AT THE LIGHT!!!
It's just all so trite.
Yeah, I don't understand why everyone had to be there either. You had a scene of Seven having a good time at the party, Raffi having another breakdown, and Juranti making out with Rios... but the three of them literally did nothing once they got inside.
Oh and Laris was there to read AstroPicard's texts I guess, something she couldn't have done without being at the party?
Tbh it's been weak since the end of the first episode of this season with him hearing that line from the Queen. As others have said, it feels like the writers are forcing their way to their plot mechanics and it makes it less enjoyable as a whole. Like the show is trying too hard with the messages it's trying to send. Like a modern Willie Wonks and The Chocolate Factory. Very on the nose with everything.
You realize that was a key plot of All Good Things, the series finale of TNG right?
Picard continues that storyline.
Irumodic Syndrome
Irumodic Syndrome was a degenerative neurological disorder that caused deterioration of the synaptic pathways. The condition caused confusion, delusions, and eventually death. It could take several years to develop and several more before it proved deadly. The treatment of choice in 2370 was...
Like, Data literally survived being beheaded and having it reattached hundreds of years later after natural cave environment exposure.
Anyway, I know the brain condition had its origins in the future from "All Good Things . . ." I just think it's stupid narratively to have it mean imminent death in Season 1 and then have to find some awkward way around it to have the character continue into the next season. There were a million ways you could have him interact with Data at the end - which is what it all seemed in service to.
It would have made more sense to keep it in pocket so you can give the character a definitive, and broadcast, end in Season 3.
I have this weird feeling afterwards of, like, did anything important happen in the episode AT ALL? I mean, yeah Picard is in a coma and Jurati's now the Borg queen, those are important developments, but Picard being off the table doesn't really change anything since the last thing we knew about regarding Renee is done, and Jurati being the Borg queen has been telegraphed for ages now. None of this feels like it moved forward the story. Neither did anything else, tbh. If that's Allison Pill singing, then it's cool that we got to hear Allison Pill sing because I did not know she could sing, but otherwise I got nothing out of the episode.
Picard telling Tallinn at the top of the episode "who's the one watching over you" is like, what the fuck, is this a Harlequin novel now, what is this trash and why is Tallinn even entertaining this from him, some guy she doesn't even know? Random Jurati musical number just because? Q's answer to getting Renee Picard out of the picture is to basically blackmail Adam Soong so he could run her over in his Tesla? What? THIS is the best plan a (apparently formerly) omnipotent being could come up with? I am extremely worried at this point that Picard season 2 is finally heading into the same trash bin that season 1 did. Ugh.
I was waiting for them to do something with this, like it being a reaction to the trauma of being in ICE detention and then on the way to deportation (or worse). But no, fucking nothing. It was shockingly toothless, and then to throw in the "you just want to bang the doctor don't you" is just... ugh.
I'm still enjoying it more than season 1, but season 1 was garbage so pretty much anything could be better.
Picard telling Tallinn at the top of the episode "who's the one watching over you" is like, what the fuck, is this a Harlequin novel now, what is this trash and why is Tallinn even entertaining this from him, some guy she doesn't even know? Random Jurati musical number just because? Q's answer to getting Renee Picard out of the picture is to basically blackmail Adam Soong so he could run her over in his Tesla? What? THIS is the best plan a (apparently formerly) omnipotent being could come up with? I am extremely worried at this point that Picard season 2 is finally heading into the same trash bin that season 1 did. Ugh.
I was waiting for them to do something with this, like it being a reaction to the trauma of being in ICE detention and then on the way to deportation (or worse). But no, fucking nothing. It was shockingly toothless, and then to throw in the "you just want to bang the doctor don't you" is just... ugh.
I'm still enjoying it more than season 1, but season 1 was garbage so pretty much anything could be better.
I don't think Data has to breath, Geordi makes a joke in the show about Data trying to swim and having to walk at the bottom of whatever body of water they were in to get back to shore.
I get it now. These show runners are bigger fans of BSG than ST. It wall makes sense. No wonder jurati is randomly strolling about in a red dress.
Does anyone else feel this is like one of those 12th Doctor seasons of Doctor Who? Not necessarily a complaint but the way they keep adding key characters and hurdles to an already complicated situation week after week to seemigly steer towards what will clearly be a big magical timey wimey resolution to the Adam Soong problem, the Renee Picard Problem, the Q Problem, the "shadow people living in Jean-Luc's head" problem, the Borg queen on the loose problem and the "we contaminated the fuck out of this timeline" problem.
He can exist for a long time without breathing but in the episode Phantasms he told Dr. Bashir that he does breath and it is part of his systems to require it.
What is the general opinion about the central plot? I feel like it started out so interesting with the confederation and then got dull :\
I am loving the supporting cast btw
I am loving the supporting cast btw
I think the thing that intrigues me the most is what is going on with Q, and it's been barely touched on the past couple of episodes. Picard talks like Q is a flat out villain, and behind it all…but that just doesn't track with everything we know about Q from TNG. Q took a special interest in humanity and Picard specifically, and if that's changed there needs to be a good reason why. I hope that's the case here…that this is another test, or Q is pushing Picard in some way to either test, or help him fix a mistake.
I do feel like the pacing of this season has been…wonky…and especially in these past two episodes. Hopefully that's going to change once we get context for Picard's childhood memories.
That scene was not beautiful in any way. It was disturbing and unethical. Killing your friend because he apparently now believes that in order to be truly 'human' he must die? Even when perhaps one could offer him a new body to exist in and then make the choice himself whether he still wanted to die? Picard didn't even ask any questions it was just straight up 'yeah sure' and then pull the plug. He didn't inquire as to whether he was actually speaking with Data or some other new form of intelligence spawned by the original Data.
My working theory so far is that
Q actually needs Picard's help to fix something that he can no longer do himself, but has taken Picard's refusal to have anything to do with him personally. Eliminating Renee Picard is, for whatever reason, plan B.
But to be honest it's not a great theory, because it doesn't really explain why any of this happened in the first place and it feels kind of dumb. Which makes sense, because I pulled it out of my ass.
My theory is
there are two Qs. One from the main universe who is helping Picard, and one from the Confederation universe that evil Picard depowered somehow and is working against him.
This too is full of holes…the thing about Q so far is that John De Lancie slid so well back into that role that it's hard to see him in any context other than what he was in TNG. Which is why the things that don't seem to track…really don't seem to track.
I had to double check that this was a Jonathan Frakes directed episode. It was absolutely terrible and well below his usual standard.
The non-linear framing device used felt amateurish and like an excuse to work around a plot that has slowed to a crawl. The same issues that plagued season 1 are beginning to crop up more frequently and I don't know why this show struggles so mightily when it comes to shifting character perspectives to make character conflict (like that between Jurati's psyche and the Borg Queen) or its mysteries more intriguing. Chewing around the edges of Renee's depression and psychological burdens is equally frustrating.
So many character decisions in this episode that required a massive suspension of disbelief. Adam Soong mowing down a civilian then going home? Rios' doctor friend not noticing Picard's body isn't human? Jurati snapping handcuffs with ease?
But worst of all is Jurati's singing number. Did nobody there recognize her as the person that had just recently been apprehended? Like come on.
I had high hopes through the first 3 or 4 episodes but this season is starting to careen off the rails just like the 1st season.
The non-linear framing device used felt amateurish and like an excuse to work around a plot that has slowed to a crawl. The same issues that plagued season 1 are beginning to crop up more frequently and I don't know why this show struggles so mightily when it comes to shifting character perspectives to make character conflict (like that between Jurati's psyche and the Borg Queen) or its mysteries more intriguing. Chewing around the edges of Renee's depression and psychological burdens is equally frustrating.
So many character decisions in this episode that required a massive suspension of disbelief. Adam Soong mowing down a civilian then going home? Rios' doctor friend not noticing Picard's body isn't human? Jurati snapping handcuffs with ease?
But worst of all is Jurati's singing number. Did nobody there recognize her as the person that had just recently been apprehended? Like come on.
I had high hopes through the first 3 or 4 episodes but this season is starting to careen off the rails just like the 1st season.
The Confederation time frame is where the show should have stayed.
The Los Angeles 2024 plotting is derivative and uninspired in every way.
The show has become just as bad as season 1. The first episode or two had a bit more promise, but that has been fully squandered.
I don't like Q in this at all. He is too menacing, too antagonistic. He was that very infrequently; typically he was flippant and irritating and aloof. He has had all the fun stripped out of him. Also I understand Picard wasn't a huge fan of Q, but I got the impression by the end of TNG that he had a grudging respect for Q and understood that he wanted the best for humanity, even if Q may have gone about it in an ambiguous manner. However in this he seems to flat out hate him. Having said that, that is just my take so maybe I was reading their relationship wrong.
I heard that Q may pop up in S3 so I don't feel good about the Q storyline being resolved in S2.
I hope I'm wrong though.
Regarding Q's hate, I think it's a hatred of what happened to Picard, and that Q felt he squandered 20 years.
I'm dying to know who James Callis is playing. That's a DS9/movie era uniform.
I hope I'm wrong though.
Regarding Q's hate, I think it's a hatred of what happened to Picard, and that Q felt he squandered 20 years.
I'm dying to know who James Callis is playing. That's a DS9/movie era uniform.
In a 10 episode season with 40 min runtimes, it honestly feels like they have enough story to barely fit 2 or 3 hours instead. That... is something.
I agree the humor has been stripped from their relationship. I think that comes down to the different tones of the 2 shows. TNG was episodic, lighter, and with more legitimate attempts at humor. Picard is a serial with an ongoing storyline about the fate of reality or something equally heavy.
So far, I really like JDL has played Q. I think there is still enough of his TNG performance but this time his issue is more personal. He is more menacing but I like it and I think there is some plot reason for it.
Picard on the other hand continues to be a performance I don't like or understand. Because of the seriousness, there is a lack of fun in the interactions between Q and Picard. That's different than in TNG, but I can accept it as a reflection of the tone of the show.
The scene of Q not being able to make the 'snap his fingers' work was very funny, it could have a bigger message about accepting that we age and they could make a joke with an allusion about Doctor Song preparing a genetic viagra.
On Voyager Q even learned things from humanity, so all this hatred Picard feels is really strange. I find the general idea of Q returning to teach a lesson somewhat in line with what was expected of the character. After what happened in Romulus, Picard has really become a stubborn and bitter old man. Now, this thing about the ancestor and his mother's memories seems so boring to me...
I feel there must be more to come on what has pushed Q to this, and also what happened to his powers.
As a 12 Monkeys fan this gives me hope that more alum will show up.
Although Jonathan Frakkes is a good director, there was too much pointless camera movement in the latest episode. The camera was constantly rotating slowly around the characters, circling behind scenery. I think he's trying to keep up the energy of a heist, but it feels confused.
Using James Callis is just going to make me remember BSG and how that show was so much better at sci-fi than Picard and how much I would give for Ronald D Moore to be making more Star Trek instead. :D
I'm usually the guy who's all "don't let new things ruin what came before for you that's silly" but I think the final season of BSG ruined the whole thing for me.
That's just all modern television. Decompressed storytelling has been the norm for ages.
To an extent, sure. But there are numerous offerings in modern television with longer season runtimes where the narrative is much better paced and plotted than anything we've come close to seeing in any of the new Star Trek series.
The recurring problem with Discovery and Picard is the reliance on shallow tropisms, cliched dialogue and reductionist exposition that isn't at all intelligent or engaging. The writing on these shows is just downright terrible so when they actually try to flesh out their overarching beats or focus on characterization, it feels flimsy and collapses in on itself.
I mean, we're definitely seeing those sets again, yes. But it could be also be as the Stargazer in a spinoff after S3 or slightly redressed for a different ship in S3.
I think that's a given. I suspect that we're getting an Enterprise in season 3, if not the Enterprise-E itself.
I really can't agree, all serialised television feels like this to me. Honestly, Picard is probably one of the better paced ones and the first two seasons of Discovery are still my gold standard for modern television pacing. Seriously they hit some structural gold there and I'm waiting for someone to refine it.
It's not like an MCU streaming show where it seems like no one involved knows how to structure an episode of television.
Yeah I can't agree with...any of that, to be honest.