• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,018
I must say I really like the direction they've taken with Picard's disillusionment with Starfleet. I was fearing a very generic "oh noes Starfleet is evil now" plotline, but it seems a lot more nuanced than that right now; it's the exact sort of thing Picard would take a stand against. It feels totally inline with what happened to Starfleet up to this point, rather than some moustache-twirling turn.

Let the Drumhead begin.

It's a more subtle kind of evil too. Not an act of willful malice (though it may turn out to have involved such later), but of apathy towards plight, particularly as affecting those seen to 'deserve' it. There was likely reluctance to the plan from the outset - helping the Federation's oldest enemy and such - but when Admiral Jean Luc Picard tells you something is the right thing to do, well, kinda hard to argue.

Then, tragedy strikes. A terrible, if seemingly unrelated, tragedy. A tragedy that has cost tens of thousands of lives. Undone all the effort poured into the endeavour. That burned to the ground not only a major tactical asset, but also Earth's sister world. The symbolic value of that alone would drive up people's sheer incense towards doing anything further. Look at what it's cost us, why should we care about them?

That is the little devil that waits in the shadow for a society like the Federation.
 

Deleted member 1478

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,812
United Kingdom
Interesting seeing some complaints over 2 short scenes of action, like we didn't used to get Kirk fighting so much in old episodes that he'd rip his shirt every damn episode 😆
 

KarmaCow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,156
Interesting seeing some complaints over 2 short scenes of action, like we didn't used to get Kirk fighting so much in old episodes that he'd rip his shirt every damn episode 😆

Here is something that might surprise you, those suck too. People remember the Zorn fight because it was dumb and Spock vs Kirk because of the music.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,404
Interesting seeing some complaints over 2 short scenes of action, like we didn't used to get Kirk fighting so much in old episodes that he'd rip his shirt every damn episode 😆
Real trekkies prefer a battle of wits.

SelfassuredBetterAsianwaterbuffalo-size_restricted.gif
 

KarmaCow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,156
I'm not saying they're good, I'm saying this is nothing new. People need to stop complaining about what they think the show should be and either accept it for what it is or move on.

The best Star Trek episodes, the more contemplative episodes are the ones without dumb fight scenes. It doesn't need to be inherent to Star Trek.
 

Fuzzy

Completely non-threatening
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,130
Toronto
One thing I hope doesn't stick from the new Picard Countdown comic is

Geordie overseeing the construction of the rescue fleet at Utopia Planitia and thus may have died during the attack. 🙁
 

Timbuktu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,234
The episode with the rogue Borg was the last Lore episode. That was the season six finale/season seven premiere. The Soong episode was season four. The last time we saw Lore, Data deactivated him and he was disassembled.

I feel they may overlook Lore in this show but what happened with Lore at the end never sat well with me. Deactivating and disassembling him just like that didn't feel ethical. He might be evil but should still have the same rights as Data and they could have locked him up. I guess they just ran out of time at the end of that episode.
 

ZedLilIndPum

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,999
Crazy that the gap between this and Nemesis is almost as large as between the TOS TV show and TNG. That puts the exposition dump in episode 1 into perspective--it felt unwieldy, but we have to accept that a ton of stuff happened since Nemesis.

In any case, it was a good start. I'm in. So happy that we're finally moving forward in time rather than prequels too.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
5,021
I hope Discovery Season 3 is purely political because of the premise, but I don't expect it to be because of the nature of what audience they're going for with these shows. I kind of accepted that fate now to be honest.
They could also go for a stronger focus on science, what with it being in the far future and Star Trek Picard obviously squarely focussing on politics.

Having said that, I was fearful of Star Trek Picard, after the movies and Star Trek Discovery Season 1 & 2 it seemed like at best it could be a nice fanservice. But I was wrong. This was the best first episode of any Star Trek series ever and it is full of life, a fantastic base idea and brilliant execution. I am absolutely pumped to watch more. It has also managed to treat political issues with dignity, instead of hamfisting and rushing them like Discovery did in the few scenes where this played a role. The interview scene with Picard was the best five minutes of Star Trek since the end of DS9 and if the team manages to keep this quality and hold the promises this first episode made, it will be a glorious return to form for Star Trek. I have never been so happy about the start of a new TV series.
 

Joeytj

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,673
Huh, I hope theres not much stock in those numbers then, as that would be disappointing.
Don't pay much attention to IMDB ratings. It takes one click for anyone to rate something they haven't seen. I just gave episode 3 a 10 and I ain't seen shit.

Plus you can see the breakdowns.

Yes, don't pay attention to IMDB of shows with toxic fans. It's easy to review bomb movies and episodes. Although IMDB has an algorithm that minimizes the impact of such reviews, they still end up skewing the review averages of shows they don't like even before seeing. Same thing with unverified user scores on Rotten Tomatoes for TV shows. The show's audience score is actually climbing up as more positive reviews from people who have actually seen the episodes come in and dilute the ridiculous low scores from haters.

Legitimate critics and reviewers who have seen the first three episodes have actually said it only gets better, and the show creators have also considered the first three episodes as only an intro to the overall season.
 

StallionDan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,705
Those 44 minutes were better than anything on Discovery. Still hesitant overall, they'll fuck this up somehow I think, but so far so good.

So are the Romulans putting together a blown up Borg cube they found or did they just decide to build a Borg cube as their new home?
Could be related to Hugh, and who knows whatever happened to the Co-Operative (the Borg with free will from Unimatrix Zero). Could have been damaged by a Nebula storm like the inactive one Voyager finds in Unity.

Could be anything 😜
 

Dougald

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,937
I don't think it was really Star Trek, but it was good television. Kinda the same thoughts I have on First Contact

Looking forward to seeing more.
 

Noodle

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
3,427
Isn't there a shipyard in jupiter too? At least according to into darkness

There are the Antares shipyards, and no doubt several others. Utopia Planitia was the biggest, essentially their Pearl Harbour. It's not inconceivable that they could have rebuilt the evac fleet or at least partially, but they'd just lost a huge chunk of infrastructure and the shock of the burning of Mars would have shifted all the focus of allocating resources inwards rather than out.

Speaking of which, I'd have assumed they'd have completely terraformed Mars into an M-class. Ditto for Luna. Would have sucked to live in Armstrong city stuck in tunnels all the time. They were toying with adding a new continent to Earth so I don't think preserving their original form was a goal.
 

chrominance

Sky Van Gogh
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,630
Maybe in canon this already exists, but boy that's a whole lot of shipyards concentrated in the Sol system. You'd think maybe you'd want to move some of those to literally any other Federation system.
 

Deleted member 5028

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,724
I don't think it was really Star Trek, but it was good television. Kinda the same thoughts I have on First Contact

Looking forward to seeing more.
But what is Star Trek?

A show about a planet of the week?
A show that has moral arguments?
A starship with a crew?
Idealism about fighting for a better future and standing up for what you believe in?
A reflection of the times we live in like Star Trek 6 and the wall coming down?

aside from the first point I'm pretty sure once we get rolling this is going to have all those things.
A reflection of the times we live in like Star Trek 6 and the wall coming down?
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,648
Crazy that the gap between this and Nemesis is almost as large as between the TOS TV show and TNG. That puts the exposition dump in episode 1 into perspective--it felt unwieldy, but we have to accept that a ton of stuff happened since Nemesis.

In any case, it was a good start. I'm in. So happy that we're finally moving forward in time rather than prequels too.
Yeah almost the same chunk of time. It has been about 17 years since Nemesis. TNG was 18 years after TOS ended.

But the TOS era had movies going between 79 and 91, so their drought period was about 10 years between TOS and their aged return. However TNG's movies carried on immediately after like an extension of the series, their first movie was in the same year the show ended. So the TNG drought was 17 years before this aged return.
It's not directly comparable, just fun to compare different points of view.
 

Teddy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,288
Finished watching the first episode and absolutely loved it!

Seeing Picard back with Data in shot, it was just like TNG. Everything was great, the last shot with the Romulans looks interesting and really sets the show up further.

One thing I was curious on, from the end of DS9, what happened to the Cardassian Union? Did the Federation effectively annex it?
 

antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,309
I enjoyed it. Felt like Proper Trek to me. It had some action and it had its view at modern day moral issues.
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
Yeah almost the same chunk of time. It has been about 17 years since Nemesis. TNG was 18 years after TOS ended.

But the TOS era had movies going between 79 and 91, so their drought period was about 10 years between TOS and their aged return. However TNG's movies carried on immediately after like an extension of the series, their first movie was in the same year the show ended. So the TNG drought was 17 years before this aged return.
It's not directly comparable, just fun to compare different points of view.

Didn't Undiscovered Country come out a year after (or maybe the same year) as TNG premiered? Always find that odd.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,736
Liked it a lot.

Relieved, and happy!

Nice to see with Daj, in the action sequences, hint of some capabilities that they couldn't explore so much with Data at the time. The super-human jump etc. Data was meant to be capable of all this, but we so rarely saw any of it.

And Maddox!

This way of continuing Data's story also was unexpected, and nice.

And I don't know. It feels like it has heart. Which is the core feeling TNG has. So in that respect, while obviously something new and different, it has a similar 'feel'. Which is extremely pleasing.

edit - oh, and just seeing the LCARS interface on the home replicator... <3
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
14,648
Didn't Undiscovered Country come out a year after (or maybe the same year) as TNG premiered? Always find that odd.
Yeah. That movie was 91. Star Trek 5 had come out in 89 also. TNG started in 87.
So the TOS movie era and the TNG tv era overlapped for like 4 years.

Definitely weird. Just imagine the internet slap fights there would have been between 87-91 if it had existed then as is does today. Being a Trek fan would have been intolerable. TOS fans vs TNG fans.
 
Last edited:

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
Yeah. That movie was 91. Star Trek 5 had come out in 89 also. TNG started in 87.
So the TOS movie era and the TNG tv era overlapped.

Definitely weird. Just imagine the internet slap fights there would have been between 87-91 if it had existed then as is does today. Being a Trek fan would have been intolerable. TOS fans vs TNG fans.

Wow yeah, the overlap was even more than I remember.
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,629
That was a good first episode. It felt like it flew by and the exposition to fill in the gaps for viewers was handled probably as best as it could be.

Also got a different feel to Discovery which is nice considering CBS want to have a whole array of Star Trek shows going on at the same time. No reason to make them all look and feel the same.
 

Aiii

何これ
Member
Oct 24, 2017
8,188
It's a bug bear of nearly all sci-fi for me that planetary populations are often in the millions instead of billions. Yes, colony worlds don't need to be that densely packed but even alien homeworlds are often given as sub 1 billion.
Except that it makes sense for developed species to see much lower birth rates than current earth. Even on our planet now there is either negative or no population growth in our most developed countries, with an expectation of further decrease. It is expected that, as other regions start catching up to development, our growth will cap out and then perhaps even decrease slowly.

So who knows, maybe a few centuries down the line we'll have a much lower population than we have even now.
 
Nov 1, 2017
8,061
Losing Mars and that ship yard reminds me of how bad Starfleet always seemed to be with having protection for their core worlds, it was a joke long ago how there might be only ever one ship nearby during extreme emergencies. The only time this was not the case was their defence against the Borg which was still very lacklustre ship number wise and saw them get their asses handed to them and that was after getting advanced warning the Borg was coming.
 

Night Hunter

Member
Dec 5, 2017
2,796
Yeah, I rewatched it and I have to say, I love it. Shows great potential.

Weekly episode drops are still stupid...
 

Night Hunter

Member
Dec 5, 2017
2,796
keeps people talking and lets them make their money back. It's fair enough for a high quality show.

Yeah, I know. I'm just conditioned by Netflix and Amazon Originals I guess.

It's just annoying that a lot of newer streaming services are reverting back to the dark ages after basically living in the promised land for several years.
 

Penny Royal

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
QLD, Australia
I have no 'feels like Trek' stuff to bother with, so I watched a great show in an amazing universe with my favourite starship captains.

I'm looking forward not just to the ongoing story, but also where some tech has gone - are there any Federation ships with Transwarp, Slipstream or Spacefold drives, for example. Is the W5 speed limit still in place, or was the subspace damage issue resolved.

Judging from the damage, the reclamation project is on a rebuild mission so I ageee with the theory about it being an empty cube.

In relation to the Borg generally I think Star Fleet, partially on the back of Voyager's experiences, are at least capable of containing Borg expansion.
 

Zastava

Member
Feb 19, 2018
2,108
London
I hope not. Janeway's extended vacation from the Alpha quadrant was because she didn't like the idea of leaving the Caretaker Array in the hands of the Kazon who would use it to wipe out the Ocampa. That might not have had the most solid narrative justification, but in the end, she placed the lives of the Ocampa over the safety and convenience of her crew. Janeway's far from my favourite captain but she deserves better than to be villainised.
I know the simple answer why they didn't do this is because there'd be no show otherwise but I've always thought it was funny that it never occurred to Janeway or the Voyager crew to just use timed explosives set to explode 5 minutes after they used the array to get home.

On topic, I thought it was a great first episode and like someone else said I was surprised when it ended because I was enjoying it so much I hadn't realised so much time had passed, and I usually have a great sense of time. Patrick Stewart played an older, slightly lost, Picard perfectly and I really liked the dynamic with him and his Romulan pals. I hope they explore that relationship more over the show, but neither of them are main cast so they'll probably get left behind once the show gets off Earth.

Slightly confused about the reaction to presence of the twin and other humans on the Romulan-occupied Borg cube. Seen some comments where people seem to assume that the cube is a secret outpost/research facility where the Romulans are up to no good but the human presence suggests to me that not only do the Federation know about it but they are helping to research it/care for the de-Borgified drones (the "broken people" or whatever Narek implied the twin was a therapist for).

Also happy to see that the Romulan empire was badly damaged by the destruction of Romulus but not destroyed. It's a bugbear of mine about Star Trek 09 that after Vulcan is destroyed Spock or maybe Sarek says something along the lines of there only being 10000 Vulcans left when we know from Enterprise and other sources that they'd been warp capable explorers for a long time, had colonies, and had their own exploration fleet that seems to have lasted until at least DS9 with "Vulcan ships" being specifically mentioned. That 10000 number makes no sense and seems like it was thrown in there with little thought put into it.
 

s_mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,771
Birmingham, UK
Didn't Voyager answer this? It's why the nacelles have variable geometry or whatever. (The nacelles tilt up and down depending on whether it's cruising at impulse or going to warp.)

Yeah, but no other ships do and I think it was pretty much ignored after that. It was an utterly stupid plot device to set up unless it was going to be used as the basis of a series or season spanning arc. Instead it basically came from a one shot environmental allegory episode that writers were then forced to either pay lip service to or ignore.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
My review: It's bad. Possibly not as bad as Nemesis, but close.

Patrick Stewart still acts well, but even Picard doesn't feel quite 100% Picard. More like... 70%? I mean that's fine, but most of the other acting is just okay.

The plot could be worse, it's bad, but not Rise of Skywalker bad. The writing is also pretty terrible. There's a few scenes which really don't have much of a point and they're really trying hard to show and not tell, but there's too much dumb, terrible crap that has happened around Nemesis and the alternate universe movies that they feel they have to account for. A lot of the universe events don't really make a ton of sense in the context of Star Wars canon, but it's a general shitshow as of late anyways.

So, there's worse things out there, but hopes of something more on the tier of Mandelorian are crushed.
 

chrominance

Sky Van Gogh
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,630
Yeah, but no other ships do and I think it was pretty much ignored after that. It was an utterly stupid plot device to set up unless it was going to be used as the basis of a series or season spanning arc. Instead it basically came from a one shot environmental allegory episode that writers were forced to either pay lip service to or ignore.

Oh yeah, my point was that I think Voyager already handwaved it away and I don't expect anyone else to ever mention the speed limit because "hey we solved it with technology!"
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
Didn't Voyager answer this? It's why the nacelles have variable geometry or whatever. (The nacelles tilt up and down depending on whether it's cruising at impulse or going to warp.)
It was never brought up again. Fans speculated that the variable geometry was the fix, but Voyager never addresses it, and it's just as likely it's done to give Voyager it's superior warp speed.
 

Nacho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,114
NYC
I liked it. It's a little weak for a pilot, but from the preview, it seems like it'll get a lot closer to what we expect/want it to be in the coming episodes.

The only thing that seemed really off to me was killing off Dahj so quickly, even if there's another of her. Just felt like an extremely weird way to introduce Soji. Hate fake outs for the sake of fake outs.

Oh also picard being blown over in one scene then the next he's just at home on his couch like, what happened? There's no hospitals or anything? He was literally unconscious until that moment. Felt so weird.