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Vic_Viper

Thanked By SGM
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,034
Not great, but significantly better than Discovery.
I was 100% sold on Discovery after Season 1, but after watching Season 2 im all in. Loved the entire plot line with Spock and the Red Angel. BUT, as I said, I wasnt a huge Star Trek fan going in so that might be why im enjoying it more than people who are.
 

19thCenturyFox

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,309
Picard is both trying to cash in on nostalgia and completely ignoring established lore. It's messy

I don't remember it ignoring established lore. The show had issues but as far as I'm concerned that wasn't one of them.

EDIT:

Thinking about this again... the show does indeed ignore the established TNG character Lore in one of my biggest frustations with the ending, so I guess I can let this one go.
 

19thCenturyFox

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,309
Different folks find different things exciting. I find it exciting that Trek has escaped from an old and outdated format and is finally embracing serialization and long term character development. I even find its failings exciting because the things it fails at were things that Star Trek showrunners were too chickenshit to attempt before.
 

lorddarkflare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,248
Different folks find different things exciting. I find it exciting that Trek has escaped from an old and outdated format and is finally embracing serialization and long term character development. I even find its failings exciting because the things it fails at were things that Star Trek showrunners were too chickenshit to attempt before.

Yeah, this encapsulates my feeling for this show exactly.

The kinds of characters they are going for, the sort of stories to chose to tell, the way the entire thing looks are all exciting.

Shame the script can barely keep up half the time.
 

Vic_Viper

Thanked By SGM
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,034
I watched it again before moving to S3. One of the sickest Star Trek big battles for sure.
I was just teasing Dead Souls lol, but yea it was a great battle sequence.

The very end there after Discovery dipped out was a bit weird to me. Like them outlawing any mention of Discovery with penalty of treason, but whatevs I guess.

I am curious where the series goes from here though. Like I assume Season 3 will be them trying to get back the entire season. I dont see them continuing the show without Star Fleet (or whatever its called) ever appearing again, even if they dont make it back to the time when they left.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,103
Like them outlawing any mention of Discovery with penalty of treason, but whatevs I guess.
There's a lot I like about Discovery, but one of the criticisms I have (of the second season in particular) is that a lot of it felt insecure about the series' place in the canon. They created a setting that didn't easily fit into existing Star Trek (Klingons that looked different, a foster sister for Spock, a method of travel that seemed a whole lot better than warp drive yet was absent in other Star Trek series), and they got some flak for that (some fair, some unfair), and in season 2 it felt like they went out of their way to address that. One of the ways they did that was the erasure of Discovery from history and Spock deciding that he would never mention his human foster sister ever again. Those are things that do patch up the lore, a bit, but they felt artificial (because they were). One of the reasons why I'm looking forward to the rest of the third season is that there is no (perceived) need for them to come up with convoluted explanations to try to justify their own existence within existing Star Trek time periods.

I am curious where the series goes from here though. Like I assume Season 3 will be them trying to get back the entire season. I dont see them continuing the show without Star Fleet (or whatever its called) ever appearing again, even if they dont make it back to the time when they left.
So we kind of know the answer to this already. Not definitely, since plans can always change, but we know how they want to handle the time shift and whether they want it to be permanent, to return to the previous Discovery era alongside Strange New Worlds, or to move to a different time period. It's technically a spoiler I suppose, so I'm tagging it in case you don't want to know the answer just yet.

 

Kschreck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,069
Pennsylvania
I feel like the only person who absolutely loved the new take on the Klingons. They felt more "real" whereas the older look felt more like cosplay to me. Loved all the attention to detail around their language, religion and culture. I was so disappointed when everyone got so upset about it.
 

Vic_Viper

Thanked By SGM
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,034
There's a lot I like about Discovery, but one of the criticisms I have (of the second season in particular) is that a lot of it felt insecure about the series' place in the canon. They created a setting that didn't easily fit into existing Star Trek (Klingons that looked different, a foster sister for Spock, a method of travel that seemed a whole lot better than warp drive yet was absent in other Star Trek series), and they got some flak for that (some fair, some unfair), and in season 2 it felt like they went out of their way to address that. One of the ways they did that was the erasure of Discovery from history and Spock deciding that he would never mention his human foster sister ever again. Those are things that do patch up the lore, a bit, but they felt artificial (because they were). One of the reasons why I'm looking forward to the rest of the third season is that there is no (perceived) need for them to come up with convoluted explanations to try to justify their own existence within existing Star Trek time periods.


So we kind of know the answer to this already. Not definitely, since plans can always change, but we know how they want to handle the time shift and whether they want it to be permanent, to return to the previous Discovery era alongside Strange New Worlds, or to move to a different time period. It's technically a spoiler I suppose, so I'm tagging it in case you don't want to know the answer just yet.

Oh neat, thanks! Hadnt heard about Strange New Worlds. I guess thatll give them a chance to play around in both eras. Glad they are keeping Spock and Pike, although I wish Spock kept the beard lol. I can see how weird it might feel trying to fit this first two seasons of Discovery in the middle of decades of established continuity.

I hope we see the Borg sometime in one of these shows. They were always the badguys I liked the most from the little ive seen of past Star Trek shows.

The setting and set up for Season 3 does feel pretty fitting considering the title of the show, Discovery. I guess we will see where this goes from here now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,570
The Borg don't really show up until TNG so that would be harder (not that enterprise didn't try), probably see them in Star Trek Prodigy or Lower Decks
 

StallionDan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,705
I feel like the only person who absolutely loved the new take on the Klingons. They felt more "real" whereas the older look felt more like cosplay to me. Loved all the attention to detail around their language, religion and culture. I was so disappointed when everyone got so upset about it.
People were upset because the Klingon language, culture and religion had already been explored heavily between the TOS movies, TNG, DS9 and Voyager, even Enterprise added more. Then Discovery releases and pretty much ignored it all.
 

Chiaroscuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,688
People were upset because the Klingon language, culture and religion had already been explored heavily between the TOS movies, TNG, DS9 and Voyager, even Enterprise added more. Then Discovery releases and pretty much ignored it all.

Most people couldn't stand a development for the Klingons outside what they consider "canon". If that was the mindset back in the 80s/90s the Klingons would continue to be the mocked Asian dangerous people they were in the 60s.

I agree Discovery rose the Klingons world to another level. For the first time I understood and could agree on their motivations. The federation is really an imperialist force in their view, much like Victorian age England.
 

StallionDan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,705
Most people couldn't stand a development for the Klingons outside what they consider "canon". If that was the mindset back in the 80s/90s the Klingons would continue to be the mocked Asian dangerous people they were in the 60s.

I agree Discovery rose the Klingons world to another level. For the first time I understood and could agree on their motivations. The federation is really an imperialist force in their view, much like Victorian age England.
TOS never did much for developing the Klingon culture, the TOS movies onwards didn't change anything as they were building on a near blank slate.

That isn't what Discovery did, it didn't build on what the TOS movies through STE had built up, it just plain threw most of it in the bin and did whatever it wanted instead.

The motivations for disliking Starfleet never changed, it was always their expansion towards the also expanded Klingon Empire. Discovery just added the religious angle.
 

H.Cornerstone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,706
I was 100% sold on Discovery after Season 1, but after watching Season 2 im all in. Loved the entire plot line with Spock and the Red Angel. BUT, as I said, I wasnt a huge Star Trek fan going in so that might be why im enjoying it more than people who are.
I dislike time travel paradox stories very much so I did not like the conclusion of season 2.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,570
The first two seasons of ENT it was just called Enterprise, it didn't add the ST on the front until season 3, probably to try to get viewers.
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,815
Section 31 would have begged me to take over sooner or later, and bureaucracy is where fun goes to die. I like jumping from universe to universe.
The writers know.

They had a lot of screentime for the tertiary characters. They're giving Detmer a PTSD storyline? It just feels to me like they've already done that with Burnham and Tyler, so I'm not a fan of it.

I wish the show put more concrete values to Dilithium. They spoke about giving 150 units away, but we don't really know how much they have, how much they need, and what that's really worth.

At the end I thought it would be a Federation ship that rescued them after seeing a gravitational wave disturbance, but we're gonna see them next week for sure.
 

SuperBanana

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,740
I don't remember it ignoring established lore. The show had issues but as far as I'm concerned that wasn't one of them.

EDIT:

Thinking about this again... the show does indeed ignore the established TNG character Lore in one of my biggest frustations with the ending, so I guess I can let this one go.

I think the absolute strangest problem that Picard had with lore was it completely ignored the very TNG episode it claimed to have been a sequel to. 'The Measure of a Man' explained how Data should be seen as a living being and that making mass producing androids for nothing but dangerous and hard labor jobs was unethical, against Starfleets morals, and possibly slavery. Cut to Picard where the androids are all mindless laborers doing hard and dangerous jobs on Mars as the humans mock them like they're nothing but machines... Feels like they never even really watched the episode the series was a follow up to.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,016
I think the absolute strangest problem that Picard had with lore was it completely ignored the very TNG episode it claimed to have been a sequel to. 'The Measure of a Man' explained how Data should be seen as a living being and that making mass producing androids for nothing but dangerous and hard labor jobs was unethical, against Starfleets morals, and possibly slavery. Cut to Picard where the androids are all mindless laborers doing hard and dangerous jobs on Mars as the humans mock them like they're nothing but machines... Feels like they never even really watched the episode the series was a follow up to.

See, that was blatantly meant as a follow up to Measure of a Man, showing that the risk was indeed always there

Except then the show doesn't really do anything with that fact. The attack on Mars isn't in any way karmic, it's the evil Romulans hacking them for... reasons that largely don't relate, really. Yeah, yeah, Zhat Vash fear the AI apocalypse, but the Soong type androids of the time were a clear step back from Data, rather than an advancement towards that threshold. The show never interrogates that event, it just happens for plot purposes.

Good to hear the next episode of Discovery does indeed focus on the side cast though. Hopefully they carry that through for the rest of the series.
 

Pluto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,430
I think the absolute strangest problem that Picard had with lore was it completely ignored the very TNG episode it claimed to have been a sequel to. 'The Measure of a Man' explained how Data should be seen as a living being and that making mass producing androids for nothing but dangerous and hard labor jobs was unethical, against Starfleets morals, and possibly slavery. Cut to Picard where the androids are all mindless laborers doing hard and dangerous jobs on Mars as the humans mock them like they're nothing but machines... Feels like they never even really watched the episode the series was a follow up to.
I don't think it ignored Measure of a Man, the mars androids were clearly less advanced and might have been a response to Data being declared a person with rights. If the Mars androids have no desire to be more than they are, don't stand up for themselves, have no sense of self preservation, don't form friendships and relationships then they are not like Data. The federation didn't produce a sentient slave race, they made Siri on legs.

Altan Soong made sentient synths but they weren't used as slaves and the people hunting them down were romulans, not federation.
 

Wrexis

Member
Nov 4, 2017
21,230
New episode was good (ep2). It was a great idea to remove Burnham from an episode so we could learn more about other characters.

What's up with
Keyla? PTSD?
 

Aiii

何これ
Member
Oct 24, 2017
8,182
Is it me or did all the jokes, the engineer whose name I will never remember, especially, fall flat?

Her back hurts... ha ha?
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 14568

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,910
another enjoyable episode and georgiou is still a delight to watch also saru is amazing as a captain
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
8,570
Oh I forgot they mentioned
V'draysh, obviously several parts of the federation are probably at war with other factions trying to take over
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,971
Programmable Matter is a cool visual effect for sure, very "future-ey" but like...the Federation has had replicators forever. "We can arrange atoms to fit any schematic" is not new technology lol

EDIT: Okay its not widespread by the TOS era, but I gather this Programmable Matter is supposed to look impressive to us, the audience who has seen TNG and everything else and it...doesn't really. Very cool appearance though
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,971
"Whereas The Burn is the best thing that ever happened to me" no-one talks like this. The burn was over a century ago. This guys great-grandfather might remember it. Modern day war profiteers and bandits don't say "World War I was the best thing that ever happened to me"

"This is not who we are" Saru says to Georgiou killing various people who want to kill them, an episode after Michael killed a bunch of people who wanted to kill her.