Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 |OT| Exploration is logical

JediTimeBoy · Mar 8, 2019

Great episode.

Could the Red Angel be one of those people that took Captain Archer into the future? (It was Captain Archer wasn't it ?)

Jean-Luc Picard · Mar 8, 2019

milamber182 said:
It was an interesting stylistic choice. With the transition to Pike's face it was treated more as a memory than a recap so maybe that's the way Pike chooses to remember it. Was the trippy music new or from the original episode?

That was the original series theme.

Era of not Yakuza · Mar 8, 2019

emag said:
Janeway

Do you want the truth ?

emag said:
That's why Spock never spoke of Michel in ToS -- she died the night she ran away

wow !!!
So simple and yet so possible

Stringfellow Hawke said:
Isn't this supposed to be the original universe?

I was talking about the ammount of retcon

DBT85 · Mar 8, 2019

Great episode.

All the control stuff ya'll talking about means nothing to me having never read any of the books.

Stouffers · Mar 8, 2019

I liked the flashback.

DBT85 · Mar 9, 2019

emag said:
Maybe the Red Angel's actions created a new timeline. That's why Spock never spoke of Michel in ToS -- she died the night she ran away.

If it created a new timeline then this wouldn't be a Prime timeline show, and much to some people annoyance, it is. Unless of course you're suggesting that by the end of Disco, the timeline will be fixed by Michael getting eaten alive because the Red Angel never goes to Spock, thereby making the entire series one of those "it happened but didn't really happen" episodes.

Spock didn't mention her because she was an (understandable) dick and "you didn't ask". He didn't mention Sybok because nobody mentions Sybok because if you don't say his name its easy to pretend he doesn't exist. Hell he wasn't apparently banished until after his mother died and he's been a no show in Disco either and she's still alive and playing the diplomatic immunity card.

DangerMouse · Mar 9, 2019

golem said:
That was a sick burn and he felt it lol

I loved that line and his reaction sooo much lmao.
They did an awesome job with their interactions and the flashbacks catching us up with Spock and the reveal of what happened. It's not easy to satisfy after all that time on buildup and I thought that scene showing what happened was surprisingly great. And I really can't wait to see more of Pike and Spock together, I really enjoyed their brief reunion at the end of the ep.

The tension was damned good for that Culber and Tyler scene and the fight. And I loved Pike and Saru working through stuff and coming onto the spy and saboteur plot thread.

sooperkool · Mar 9, 2019

golem said:
That was a sick burn and he felt it lol

That was such a, "You might be an important guy but you're my little brother"

DBT85 · Mar 9, 2019

Fliesen said:
we can safely expect that we're going to get the big moment of how the new Culber doesn't love Stamets anymore, which will be rather heartbreaking.

Oh for sure. It's basically written everywhere. He's Culber but not Culber. Like waking from a coma with no memory of your family and being told that you love them. He doesn't. I'm sure he will by the end of it all, but for now its going to be a gut punch when he tells Stamets that he doesn't.

StallionDan · Mar 9, 2019

The issue is it's not really him right? That he is just made up of Stamets' memories and knowledge, not actually his own experiences. Hence nothing feeling quite real or right.

Jean-Luc Picard · Mar 9, 2019

DBT85 said:
If it created a new timeline then this wouldn't be a Prime timeline show, and much to some people annoyance, it is. Unless of course you're suggesting that by the end of Disco, the timeline will be fixed by Michael getting eaten alive because the Red Angel never goes to Spock, thereby making the entire series one of those "it happened but didn't really happen" episodes.

Spock didn't mention her because she was an (understandable) dick and "you didn't ask". He didn't mention Sybok because nobody mentions Sybok because if you don't say his name its easy to pretend he doesn't exist. Hell he wasn't apparently banished until after his mother died and he's been a no show in Disco either and she's still alive and playing the diplomatic immunity card.

Whose mother? Sybok's own mother? Ya do know Sybok and Spock have different mothers, right?

Deleted member 1478 · Mar 9, 2019

DBT85 said:
If it created a new timeline then this wouldn't be a Prime timeline show, and much to some people annoyance, it is. Unless of course you're suggesting that by the end of Disco, the timeline will be fixed by Michael getting eaten alive because the Red Angel never goes to Spock, thereby making the entire series one of those "it happened but didn't really happen" episodes.

To be fair it's only really been since Star Trek 11 that people even care about that. The Prime timeline changes all the time to the point where it's already split out many times into alternate realities. Gabriel Bell dying in DS9 so Sisko taking his place now makes it an alternate reality. First Contact with the Borg attacking Earth, having Riker and LaForge on the Phoenix is another alternate reality etc etc.

Joeytj · Mar 9, 2019

StallionDan said:
The issue is it's not really him right? That he is just made up of Stamets' memories and knowledge, not actually his own experiences. Hence nothing feeling quite real or right.

Whoa, I think you're right. I just guessed that it's one thing to have the memories of your life, it's another to actually have the body to prove it, the muscle memory of it all.

That's an interesting theory.

Joeytj · Mar 9, 2019

Happenstance said:
To be fair it's only really been since Star Trek 11 that people even care about that. The Prime timeline changes all the time to the point where it's already split out many times into alternate realities. Gabriel Bell dying in DS9 so Sisko taking his place now makes it an alternate reality. First Contact with the Borg attacking Earth, having Riker and LaForge on the Phoenix is another alternate reality etc etc.

Or that whole Enterprise C-Tasha Ray-Sela thing. Or whenever Q messed with things. The entire 14 days they were stuck in a time loop and when Kelsey Grammer's ship was rescued from it.

DBT85 · Mar 9, 2019

Stringfellow Hawke said:
Whose mother? Sybok's own mother? Ya do know Sybok and Spock have different mothers, right?

Ah balls I forgot that. When did she pop off?

Pluto · Mar 9, 2019

JonnyDBrit said:
So, in some Post DS9 novels, Control is the secretive sub-persona of Uraei, a threat analysis program that evolved into basically the unseen God Emperor of the Federation, having decided that the only way to defend against shenanigans like the Xindi attack was control everything. It's in all their tech and is responsible for everything from making sure your replicator gets your coffee right to manipulating people to break the law and genetically engineer a child that will be of use in like, three or for decades, all according to plan. Section 31 basically acts at Uraei's discretion, where Uraei let's everyone else think they have a semblance of free will.

That was one of the most idiotic stories ever written for Star Trek-

milamber182 · Mar 9, 2019

They could always circle back to the Red Angel at the end of the series and prevent it from saving Michael as a child.

As for the Red Angel's identity... it somehow witnesses the destruction of the universe and survives with time travel tech. I'm thinking the ship AI from Calypso in human form or Mycelial Lorca.

Deleted member 1478 · Mar 9, 2019

My original thought was it would be Michael and tie in with the short Trek in the future but if Michael originally died on Vulcan then she shouldn't have been around in the future to go back and save herself.

I'd love it to be someone completely out of left field that we already know like Seven of Nine coming back to make these changes because the Borg finally won.

Joeytj · Mar 9, 2019

Got a chance to watch it tonight, and I can say this is one of the episodes, or maybe the first, that made me feel elated with the show. Really loved some parts of it, even The Cage reference. I didn't find it cheesy, although perhaps that was because I saw some of your reactions and lowered my expectations or wasn't caught off guard by it. And overall I really liked the episode.

Not even the usual suspects brought it down for me, like Michael's bad drama or any of the Voq nonsense. Zombie Culber was also good, as they explained further what was getting him down.

I'm worried the Red Angel plot might get screwed up, but I'm still willing to go along with it, for now. But time travel plots are always iffy.

Himynameischris · Mar 9, 2019

I kinda enjoy that the further we get the less accurate the original predictions seem to be, by this point in season 1 it was already pretty obvious who Lorca was and where Disco was headed.

Googleplex · Mar 9, 2019

Stouffers said:
What if the Red Angel is

I'm of the opinion that the Red Angel is

Michael Burnham

Joeytj · Mar 9, 2019

Himynameischris said:
I kinda enjoy that the further we get the less accurate the original predictions seem to be, by this point in season 1 it was already pretty obvious who Lorca was and where Disco was headed.

Yeah, unlike S1, it's been hard to predict where this is going. Haven't really seen a single theory so far that has held up. Pretty neat.

gofreak · Mar 9, 2019

Googleplex said:
I'm of the opinion that the Red Angel is

Michael Burnham

Me too. And

in order to save the universe, a new timeline has to be created, one in which Michael and Spock never met, and perhaps other stuff like the spore drive get neatly tied up. And the regular prime timeline is that new timeline, where disco carries on on its adventures and Spock carries on on his. Or something like that. On second thought, though, this might seem like a 'it all never happened' type of cop-out...

Tbh I'm so lost in where all this is in the timeline. I thought disco was pre-ToS, but with the Talos IV stuff now I haven't a clue. It probably doesn't help that I never watched ToS. I guess I have a little reading up to do.

JonnyDBrit · Mar 9, 2019

gofreak said:
Me too. And

in order to save the universe, a new timeline has to be created, one in which Michael and Spock never met, and perhaps other stuff like the spore drive get neatly tied up. And the regular prime timeline is that new timeline, where disco carries on on its adventures and Spock carries on on his. Or something like that. On second thought, though, this might seem like a 'it all never happened' type of cop-out...

Tbh I'm so lost in where all this is in the timeline. I thought disco was pre-ToS, but with the Talos IV stuff now I haven't a clue. It probably doesn't help that I never watched ToS. I guess I have a little reading up to do.

It's pre-ToS save for The Cage, which itself took place over ten years before Kirk's tenure on the Enterprise.

StopMakingSense · Mar 9, 2019

gofreak said:
Me too. And

Tbh I'm so lost in where all this is in the timeline. I thought disco was pre-ToS, but with the Talos IV stuff now I haven't a clue. It probably doesn't help that I never watched ToS. I guess I have a little reading up to do.

For sure pre-TOS, the Enterprise is in dry-dock following Pike's Five Year mission.

Deleted member 5028 · Mar 9, 2019

DBT85 said:
Oh for sure. It's basically written everywhere. He's Culber but not Culber. Like waking from a coma with no memory of your family and being told that you love them. He doesn't. I'm sure he will by the end of it all, but for now its going to be a gut punch when he tells Stamets that he doesn't.

I guess Section 31 are going to be getting w new doctor soon who is morally grey.

milamber182 · Mar 9, 2019

SlipperyFishes said:
I guess Section 31 are going to be getting w new doctor soon who is morally grey.

Culber on the Section 31 show would be cool

Deleted member 1478 · Mar 9, 2019

I still expect Culber and Stamets to work it out in the end. It always seemed the relationship was really important to the writers/producers.

Dougald · Mar 9, 2019

Very enjoyable episode. Like the first season this one started off fairly 'eh' to me and has only improved as the story progressed

Big Tent Expat · Mar 9, 2019

Happenstance said:
I still expect Culber and Stamets to work it out in the end. It always seemed the relationship was really important to the writers/producers.

How many of the people that you're referencing even still work on the show? There's been quite a bit of turnover.

Jean-Luc Picard · Mar 9, 2019

DBT85 said:
Ah balls I forgot that. When did she pop off?

Spock didn't specify. He just said that after her death, Sybok and he were raised as brothers. Sybok was banished for embracing his emotions and encouraging others to do the same.

Happenstance said:
My original thought was it would be Michael and tie in with the short Trek in the future but if Michael originally died on Vulcan then she shouldn't have been around in the future to go back and save herself.

I'd love it to be someone completely out of left field that we already know like Seven of Nine coming back to make these changes because the Borg finally won.

gofreak said:
Me too. And

in order to save the universe, a new timeline has to be created, one in which Michael and Spock never met, and perhaps other stuff like the spore drive get neatly tied up. And the regular prime timeline is that new timeline, where disco carries on on its adventures and Spock carries on on his. Or something like that. On second thought, though, this might seem like a 'it all never happened' type of cop-out...

Tbh I'm so lost in where all this is in the timeline. I thought disco was pre-ToS, but with the Talos IV stuff now I haven't a clue. It probably doesn't help that I never watched ToS. I guess I have a little reading up to do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series_episodes#Production_order

Deleted member 1478 · Mar 9, 2019

I wonder if we'll ever see or hear about a young Lieutenant Kirk on the Farragut.

milamber182 · Mar 9, 2019

Stringfellow Hawke said:

https://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/sta...trek-the-animated-series-influences-discovery

Jean-Luc Picard · Mar 9, 2019

milamber182 said:
https://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/sta...trek-the-animated-series-influences-discovery

Thanks.

Chiaroscuro · Mar 9, 2019

gofreak said:
Tbh I'm so lost in where all this is in the timeline. I thought disco was pre-ToS, but with the Talos IV stuff now I haven't a clue. It probably doesn't help that I never watched ToS. I guess I have a little reading up to do.

The pilot from Star Trek was "The Cage" with Pike as the Enterprise captain and a whole different crew except for Spock. The events on this episode happened years before Discovery. The pilot was not approved and not aired (until much later after the series end). The series was reworked with a different crew and Captain Kirk, and set in a year 10 years after Discovery season 1. The Cage pilot footage was reworked as a flashback and background story for season 01 "The Menagerie" two-episode story, which is also set in Talos IV and deals with the fate of Pike, establishing the chronology of Enterprise and Pike as its captain before Kirk in the oficial lore.

So "The Cage" -> Discovery -> Star Trek OS.

Deleted member 8860 · Mar 9, 2019

Anyone making bets as to whether will get a Pike-Enterprise spin off set during that prior five year mission? Pike, Spock, and Number One are all great (the security officer and the dead guy, not as much, but they could be fleshed out). And it would give fans the alien/planet-of-the-week format they claim to want.

DrEvil · Mar 9, 2019

Just wanna say that the cinematography, lighting design, and VFX work were absolutely unreal this passed episode.

The dark natural lit effect in a goddamn starship is beautiful. And all the talos planet cg and space stuff was on point.

Was a major departure but it just looked so damn nice.

gofreak · Mar 9, 2019

Chiaroscuro said:
The pilot from Star Trek was "The Cage" with Pike as the Enterprise captain and a whole different crew except for Spock. The events on this episode happened years before Discovery. The pilot was not approved and not aired (until much later after the series end). The series was reworked with a different crew and Captain Kirk, and set in a year 10 years after Discovery season 1. The Cage pilot footage was reworked as a flashback and background story for season 01 "The Menagerie" two-episode story, which is also set in Talos IV and deals with the fate of Pike, establishing the chronology of Enterprise and Pike as its captain before Kirk in the oficial lore.

So "The Cage" -> Discovery -> Star Trek OS.

Ah... thank you. I knew Pike was a pre-Kirk Enterprise captain, but didn't grok that there was so much time between them. I guess I'll watch these episodes. Thanks for the explanation!

Chiaroscuro · Mar 9, 2019

gofreak said:
Ah... thank you. I knew Pike was a pre-Kirk Enterprise captain, but didn't grok that there was so much time between them. I guess I'll watch these episodes. Thanks for the explanation!

There were no time between Pike and Kirk, one immediately succeeds the other. I don't know how much time Pike was captain of the Enterprise, but in the Menagerie Spock says he served under Pike in Enterprise for 11 years before Pike got promoted and Kirk steps in.

The events on The Cage happened earlier on Pike command of the Enterprise, before Discovery. He continues to serve on Enterprise after that (and because that he can only be "guest" captain of Discovery for a short bit of time). Years later when Kirk becomes captain they went back to Talos IV on the Menagerie (which is sufficient to watch for understanding the timeline, but both it and The Cage are available on CBS/Netflix).

Stouffers · Mar 9, 2019

Happenstance said:
I still expect Culber and Stamets to work it out in the end. It always seemed the relationship was really important to the writers/producers.

I don't know. I think it's more important that they're not just the gay couple. I'd prefer the characters be able to stand on their own. Stamets has had that opportunity, but not so much Culber.

DBT85 · Mar 9, 2019

emag said:
Anyone making bets as to whether will get a Pike-Enterprise spin off set during that prior five year mission? Pike, Spock, and Number One are all great (the security officer and the dead guy, not as much, but they could be fleshed out). And it would give fans the alien/planet-of-the-week format they claim to want.

We better fucking had do.

Been calling for it every week. Mount is great as Pike and now Spock I'd great too.

Stouffers · Mar 9, 2019

Yea, they nailed Pike.

Spectromixer · Mar 9, 2019

Watched the episode last night, I really liked the scenes with Pike and Vina, thought that was great.

The recap intro reminded me of Twice Upon a Time from Doctor Who but I liked it.

These theories about Control are blowing my mind.

Chiaroscuro · Mar 9, 2019

DBT85 said:
We better fucking had do.

Been calling for it every week. Mount is great as Pike and now Spock I'd great too.

I would like a series like that too, although by today TV standards it will be serialized and not episodic (but for sure with some planet of the week episodes tossed in between).

But I fear the boat already sailed as it should be on profuction by this time if they want to keep the actors.

And what would you call the series? Star Trek the Pike Years? 😅

Deleted member 5028 · Mar 9, 2019

Spectromixer said:
Watched the episode last night, I really liked the scenes with Pike and Vina, thought that was great.

The recap intro reminded me of Twice Upon a Time from Doctor Who but I liked it.

These theories about Control are blowing my mind.

Will this end up with them creating an AI for Discovery to combat Control?

Window · Mar 9, 2019

So over the past 1.5 days I've finished all of S1 and am up to S2EP3. This show definitely has impressive production values and has turned out to be a great guilty pleasure. Guilty because the writing is often poor (that Lorca reveal and the entire WH40K alternate universe with Georgiou as emperor was so bad and bonkers but I couldn't stop watching). This isn't what I wanted out of a new Star Trek show but it can be enjoyable non the less.

Spectromixer · Mar 9, 2019

SlipperyFishes said:
Will this end up with them creating an AI for Discovery to combat Control?

Zora. That would be interesting

Effect · Mar 9, 2019

Raw Sauce said:
How many of the people that you're referencing even still work on the show? There's been quite a bit of turnover.

Not really. The writers room has largely stayed the same for the most part I believe. Story editors and coordinators are largely the same. Kurtzman has been there since day one as show creator, etc. Different show runners and some producers have changed or moved on to other Trek projects (producer example like Goldsman for example is on the Picard show now).

Chiaroscuro · Mar 9, 2019

Call me crazy but I am more interested on a Pike show than a Picard show right now.

firehawk12 · Mar 9, 2019

Chiaroscuro said:
Call me crazy but I am more interested on a Pike show than a Picard show right now.

Gotta get him into the stupid chair. :)

Star Trek Discovery - Season 2 |OT| Exploration is logical

Resident Thread Mechanic

Resident Thread Mechanic

Resident Thread Mechanic

User requested account closure

Resident Thread Mechanic

User requested account closure

God and Anime

User requested account closure

User requested account closure

User requested account closure

User requested account closure

Developer

Resident Thread Mechanic

User requested account closure